26 ms·
ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say
- mandeepj 2y agoFolks - Get ready to make a TikTok + AI clone, if not already.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- simlevesque 2y agoIt never was about ByteDance. It's the Chinese government who will decide. From their point of view, the right strategic move is to shut it down. Even if every other country bans the app it doesn't impact them much. Also they hate doing things that make then look weak. If they sell, they lose their influence. If they shut down, same thing.
- AlexandrB 2y ago> It never was about ByteDance. It's the Chinese government who will decide. This makes for a pithy statement, but is it actually true? Obviously the Chinese government has a lot of influence on Chinese companies, but do they actually dictate strategic direction like this?
- jedberg 2y agoYes. They own the company. Any medium/large company in China has a government representative embedded in the exec team.
- AlexandrB 2y ago> They own the company. > Any medium/large company in China has a government representative embedded in the exec team. These two aren't the same thing. Obviously if you go directly against the Chinese government you're liable to disappear for a while, like Jack Ma. I just don't think the Chinese government gives that much of a shit about a social media company. Despite all the hysteria about TikTok being uniquely corrosive to society you can see most of the same content and trends on homegrown competitors like Instagram.
- plussed_reader 2y agoI thought all businesses in China operate at the pleasure of the government? Most recent attempt I can think of bucking that trend is Ant group and Jack Ma, who presumably still is in a room somewhere and not a dark hole in the ground.
- dsabanin 2y agoThey really, really do. It’s communism 101.
- matwood 2y agoByteDance has a number of big US investors. A sale or divestiture of Chinese ownership would be good for these investors. From a purely financial view, selling is the right move. The only reason not to sell is because a player who doesn't care about money is putting the brakes on. I also think if they pull out of the US, it's not improbable for the EU to also push TikTok to make changes.
- A1vis 2y agoOn this specific issue, very probable. China has a law that restricts the export of algorithm: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/US-China-tensions/China-s-new-AI-export-curbs-threaten-TikTok-s-US-sale https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/US-...
- xvector 2y agoIt's completely sensible - Why would you just hand over your crown jewel to a competitor? (At the same time, it doesn't seem like China really cares for its tech industry, given how many times they've sabotaged it. It is possible they don't care about what happens with TikTok.)
- sanxiyn 2y agoIt is not handing over. It is selling for a price. I think there IS a price that ByteDance would sell.
- pennybanks 2y agoits not that they dont care, they care a lot. chinese way of thinking is if you know how its made/how it works you can always make more, make another. no company is above the govt, china.
- rockinghigh 2y agoWestern companies have largely taken the same approach and exited markets that banned them rather than sell. Whether it's Google, YouTube, X, Instagram, or Facebook, they didn't sell either.
- nzach 2y agoBut from a practical standpoint how do you sell 'a branch' of a software-based company? Do you sell/license the software? Do you charge this new company for API access to the 'old' services? I've had a really hard time trying to imagine how this could play out in fair agreement. I think the only real option is to exit the market.
- miragecraft 2y agoI doubt it, their core competitive advantage is their algorithms which they would have to disclose in a sale. So they wouldn’t be selling the US subsidiary, they’d be selling the entire golden goose.
- kenjackson 2y agoIs disclosing the algorithm a mandatory condition of the sale? If I were them I'd not give away the algorithm. I'd sell the name, branding, userbase, and let them lease the servers until they could host it in their own datacenter -- at which point they'd have access to most of the code, but not the algorithm (if the algorithm is of special value).
- jahewson 2y agoNot really. ByteDance is based in Singapore. They can sell it to whoever they like, but most of their operations are based in China and even if they could be sold, who in their right mind would buy that? Because it doesn’t solve the real issue - 100,000 employees in China is a dead end for any acquirer.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rascul 2y ago> ByteDance is based in Singapore. Is it? Wikipedia seems to disagree: > ByteDance Ltd. is a Chinese internet technology company headquartered in Haidian, Beijing and incorporated in the Cayman Islands. The only mention of Singapore is in reference to launching a music service there. Do you have information you can reference that isn't available in the Wikipedia article? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ByteDance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ByteDance
- deadbabe 2y agoIt’s exciting to think that by this time next year, TikTok can be nothing more than a distant memory. RIP Vine
- coolbreezetft24 2y agoThere will just be something else that's basically the same thing
- deadbabe 2y agoThe idea of something to replace TikTok is exciting. With each new social network there is so much opportunity to start a new following and it’s easier to go viral. The first rounds of ads are also more effective.
- manishsharan 2y agoI hate YouTube shorts that pop into my feed and I hate myself for watching them.
- tmaly 2y agoNothing will be the same thing. The algorithm Tiktok had in 2020 was one of a kind. A person with a phone could go viral and reach thousands if not millions in a day. Today, Tiktok has largely throttled the viral nature of their algorithm. You have spend money on paid advertising if you want to reach millions of people. Yes, there are still videos that get millions of views, but it is hit or miss now.
- roncesvalles 2y agoThe bill bans all software created by Bytedance.
- Miner49er 2y agoThere's a very good chance the courts will find the ban unconstitutional.
- chipgap98 2y agoThis is what they would say whether or not they wanted to sell. Otherwise the buyers would be operating from a position of strength
- sdesol 2y agoI suspect this has more to do with getting TikTok users riled up with the hopes of influencing change. If they do sell, I don't see anybody trying to low ball them since they know what they are getting.
- bogwog 2y agoUS businesses that try to compete with big tech don't stand a chance no matter how innovative because they'll either be bought and killed, or killed/suppressed through some illegal business practices from big tech that government won't or can't stop. When an innovative foreign company comes in that Facebook/Google/Microsoft/Apple/Amazon/etc can't buy, the government ends up killing it. Optimistically, this will create an opportunity for a new business to come in and fill the void left by TikTok's departure. Realistically, that's going to all get gobbled up by a big tech company in the end.
- geraltofrivia 2y agoIn India, tiktok ban migrated the people off to instagram, and in my (subjective) opinion we are worse off for it.
- somenameforme 2y agoCan you elaborate? I was looking up information about this and saw Indians could continue using the app if already installed, and that there are trivial workarounds to download it if not installed. I would have expected a ban like this to have had a relatively small effect.
- daedrdev 2y agoDespite what they said I think they will still sell. If they don't sell it's a really bad look for them.
- matwood 2y ago> Despite what they said I think they will still sell. I have to agree. There's too much money on the table to not sell.
- forbiddenvoid 2y agoFor ByteDance it's a bad look. The Chinese government probably doesn't look at it that way. From their perspective, allowing ByteDance to sell looks a lot like allowing the US to dictate Chinese policy, which is anathema to party priorities.
- shmatt 2y agoWho even knows what the buyers are buying? The major investor groups that have shown interest so far didn’t seem that savvy. TikTok would sell the user base and basic functionality, but no way they will sell the magic algorithm that no other company STILL has yet to replicate It would be on the buyer to prove / challenge it’s not the same algorithm and that would be almost impossible to prove Who knows what TikTok is even worth without its highly addictive engine behind it
- LZ_Khan 2y agoIs the algorithm that much better than Shorts/Reels?
- shmatt 2y agoReply All did a pretty good episode about it. It’s just really good at pushing the exact content you will interact with, 1000x better than anything Meta owns https://gimletmedia.com/amp/shows/reply-all/z3h78d6 https://gimletmedia.com/amp/shows/reply-all/z3h78d6
- DotaFan 2y agoI've noticed my TikTok feed is full of "Bosnian Serbs want emancipation, war is looming on Western Balkan" type of videos lately. My guess is Russia and China want another war far from Ukraine so western nations focus less on Ukraine.
- underseacables 2y agoIf you think about it, social media is a great propaganda tool if you are a bad state actor. Content for young people and indoctrination delivered right to their eyeballs.
- JohnMakin 2y agoThere is absolutely no way to draw general conclusions like this from one single person's experience on the FYP algorithm - it's very different depending on who is viewing it.
- CodesInChaos 2y agoI wonder if this choice will have an effect on the upcoming US elections, with TikTok users blaming the current government for losing access to their favourite app.
- nullindividual 2y agoGiven the impetus for some congress critters to change their No vote to a Yes vote was the very young teenagers calling their offices and having zero idea what this is about or what to ask for simply based on Tiktok's fearmongering, not much. Maybe in another four years when they're old enough to vote.
- physhster 2y agoThis could very well be the intended effect...
- LZ_Khan 2y agoIt will, and it's blatant proof the power tiktok has on the minds of americans. The CEO has already put out a propaganda piece talking about how Tiktok being banned is a travesty to American free speech.
- Miner49er 2y agoThey won't lose access by the election though. The courts are going to put a pause on this until it's settled in court.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- renewiltord 2y agoUnsurprising, I suppose. Google didn't sell their China operations to the Chinese government's choice. It's a sign of declining US power that this nation has to resort to the same moves as China does. Previously, American stuff was just better and protectionism wasn't required. Now the Chinede thing is better so we have to do this. Can't be helped. Everything must play out this way. We're too weak to just beat them so we're forced to do this. But we still have to do it.
- vineyardmike 2y ago> Previously, American stuff was just better and protectionism wasn't required Most profits from social media globally is still US businesses (Meta, Google, Snap, etc). > We're too weak to just beat them so we're forced to do this. But we still have to do it. Completely agree, but... Protectionism isn't always just to help local business succeed in the market place - sometimes it's strategic to ensure local skill exists (eg aerospace companies and nat'l defense), or some other similar localized outcome (eg. job creation, pride, etc). I think foreign companies controlling popular media distribution through an opaque and un-auditable algorithm is a propaganda and manipulation liability, so intervention is good. (obviously propaganda is still possible, just more localized).
- next_xibalba 2y agoIndia banned TikTok (without the option to divest) and everything was fine. And they didn't limit the ban to TikTok: "TikTok wasn’t a one-off case. Today, India has banned over 500 Chinese apps to date." [1] If ByteDance won't sell, let them shutdown. It is truly baffling to me that anyone would defend a company's right to operate freely in the U.S. when it is controlled by a brutal autocracy that is also an emerging adversary. [1] https://apnews.com/article/india-tiktok-ban-us-china-9ae5223bce78c56e5d22a1f2e86510f0 https://apnews.com/article/india-tiktok-ban-us-china-9ae5223...
- somenameforme 2y agoIn India users that had it installed could continue to use it. And downloading it in India is trivial. On iPhone it's as simple as changing your region, on Android you just need to install the APK (installer) - which TikTok makes conveniently available on their website. I learned this from a quick search of 'how to install TikTok in India' which is apparently quite the common search in India. [1] I tried to dig up some data on how many Indian TikTok users there are. Probably unsurprisingly, that's not available. It seems fairly safe to say it's going to be quite a hefty number though! So it was a toothless ban. By contrast, US wanted to have their cake and eat it too - keep TikTok and gain complete control over it. And while I know basically nothing about Indian law I'm fairly certain they have a much better legal argument in the US as well. So I don't think the situations have much in common. [1] - https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=IN&q=How%20to%20Download%20TikTok%20in%20India&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=IN&q=H...
- _mlbt 2y agoDoesn’t China also demand complete control of foreign apps in their country? Correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is that the CCP demands specific changes to or outright removal of apps all the time.
- somenameforme 2y agoIn general, yes. This [1] is the first paragraph of the first article of their constitution: "The People’s Republic of China is a socialist state under the people’s democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants. The socialist system is the basic system of the People’s Republic of China. Disruption of the socialist system by any organization or individual is prohibited." They are a self described democratic dictatorship with a system that openly and voluntarily chooses to sacrifice individual liberty and freedom for what they see as the collective good. That is their right as a sovereign power, but it is not a system I would like to live under. And any movement in this sort of direction is something that I think should be actively opposed. [1] - http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Constitution/node_2825.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Constitution/node_282...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- chx 2y agoThe diabolical take is the Republicans moved for this to make TikTok deeply interested in the reelection of Trump. Yes, Trump tried to ban it in 2020 but since then he turned around, if for no other reason than Biden doing it.
- hdlothia 2y agoIt's a shame. TikTok is a well engineered platform and has brought a lot of fun, good content and community to a lot of people. I do think it's a national security threat, and agree with the ban. I just wish humans could figure out how to get along better, so that everything didn't have to be so politicized.
- jnaina 2y agoIt's about reciprocity. CCP does not allow foreign apps and services unfettered access to the Chinese marketplace. The measures that we have to take to operate and deliver our services in China is insanely difficult resulting in a diluted experience for our customers. Until and unless China learns to play nice in the global arena, they should likewise be forcibly shut out in terms of access to foreign markets for their products and services.
- gigatexal 2y agoGood. This will lead to an outright ban if the law holds.
- josefresco 2y agoAs a father of two US teens who use TikTok quite a lot, neither of them could give two shits if TikTok was shut down. Snapchat? Now that's a completely different story. TikTok is a boredom filler, Snapchat is a teen communications essential.