8 ms·

Stop Saying AI

26 points by sloped 3y ago

farts_mckensy 3y ago
To me, this is like asking if a hotdog is technically a sandwich. Who cares? It's semantics. This has the same vibe as, "Well, technically, Linux is just a kernel, not an operating system." No one cares, nerds. There's no point in trying to argue about this. People have adopted AI into their vernacular. It's not going to change at this point.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dreamglider 3y ago
  The few thousand of people (worldwide), who were into NLP (Natural Language Processing) and were the drive behind the ML "revolution" - they care, but for other reasons. In like 10 years from now, when you ask for a hotdog but get a sandwich - then you may care too. But hey - that's happening right now, with humans, anyway ! :D
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jncfhnb 3y ago
Sentient Source is more alliterative.
simonw 3y ago
Artificial Intelligence is the name of the research field that this stuff comes out of. It was coined in 1956: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_workshop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_workshop Researchers have been using "AI" as a term to describe their work for nearly 70 years at this point. I don't see why we should throw away six decades of nomenclature just because "LLMs aren't actually intelligent". It's a perfectly cromulent term.
- qeternity 3y ago
  > cromulent Thanks for the new word of the day!
  - glitchcrab 3y ago
    One could argue that it is not actually a word https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/what-does-cromulent-mean# https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/what-does-cromulent...
- jampekka 3y ago
  The term "Artificial Intelligence" was explictly not used in these fields for long stretches of time because the term got overhyped. The winter is coming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter
  - hnenjoyer_93 3y ago
    A new winter is never coming, the last few years have shown the potential of machine learning and its use is only going to increase
    - lowmagnet 3y ago
      Considering the amount of carbon being pumped out to power all this, you may be right.
    - jampekka 3y ago
      Machine learning has taken huge leaps but the expectations for it are getting blown out of proportion. The use is going to increase for sure but there are many weaknesses in the technology that tend to be overlooked. E.g. autonomous driving already proved too hard a task for ML for the foreseeable future. Also "hallucination" is a problem with no clear solution in sight.
      - Izkata 3y ago
jchw 3y ago
I fully agree and also try to correct myself and use terms like "LLM" and "generative image models" as I really do feel the term "AI" is misleading at best... That said, I can't help but feel the cat is firmly out of the bag. Of course people have been calling lots of things AI for a long time, so this is nothing particularly new. I think we're just going to have to live with it.
jampekka 3y ago
I use a heuristic that if somebody says "AI", they don't know what they are talking about or are pandering to those who don't.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  Or, they're referring to the entire class of computer science.
bigyikes 3y ago
Stop saying AI? >But they are not intelligence and anyone who spends time with them quickly realizes they are just a very superpowered suggestion engine How about: stop moving goalposts. These models are obviously capable of acts of intelligence. If you told someone 10 years ago about the things these models can do, they would tell you the model is intelligent. The model does well on human exams that we use to measure intelligence. I get it, AI is a hype term, but to pretend that there is no intelligence is silly, and to pretend that you can redefine intelligence is hubris.
- MarkusQ 3y ago
  > These models are obviously capable of acts of intelligence. Except they aren't. They are capable of language and pattern manipulation, and really good at it. But if you concoct a novel problem that isn't found anywhere on the internet and confront them with it, they fail absurdly. Even if it's something that a kid could figure out. The Eliza effect strikes again!
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    > But if you concoct a novel problem that isn't found anywhere on the internet and confront them with it, they fail absurdly. Often they do, but sometimes they don't. > Even if it's something that a kid could figure out. Intelligent and smart aren't synonyms. Modern LLM's are obviously pretty stupid at times, but even a human with an IQ of 65 has some intelligence.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    > But if you concoct a novel problem that isn't found anywhere on the internet and confront them with it, they fail absurdly. Can you give an example?
    - LorenDB 3y ago
      Of course not, because then the AI would get trained on the proper answer! /s
  - 3y ago
nbow 3y ago
I somewhat agree here, but not entirely. I think that in technical conversations it's much better to say llm, diffusion model, transformer, etc. But overall it's all Latin to the layman anyway. The use of AI as a marketing term is what I think is causing OP frustration, it's being marked as a panacea when it's far from it, but when is it ever? Social media was marketed as a life changing good for society too. Any conversation about AGI, does make me cringe. What an absolutely silly and moonshot thing to be having discussions about.
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
Artificial Intelligence has nothing to do with the capabilities, and everything to do with the approach. If I hand-crafted an algorithm that could reliably spot stop signs in pictures by applying a mountain of heuristics that I came up with, AI would not be an appropriate label. If I instead made a program that could detect stop signs after being fed thousands of pictures of stop signs, then I'm comfortable calling that machine learning, or AI, because the approach was based off modelling intelligence, i.e., the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
- jampekka 3y ago
  The former was the original use for "AI". The latter was called "machine learning" largely to contrast it with "AI" whose reputation had tanked due to hype.
matrss 3y ago
I find it useful to keep in mind that LLMs are essentially "just" random generators based on the probability distribution of some language (or more accurately a sample of that distribution in the form of a finite amount of text, a dataset). You don't expect a random generator to spit out facts, you expect to get random nonsense. But it can be very good at replicating the fitted probability distribution in its output, i.e. generate convincingly coherent language.
panqueca 3y ago
We could can: Probabilistic Next Token Caulculator
wilg 3y ago
Bikeshedding about terminology isn't worth anybody's time. You can be skeptical of technology without grandstanding about it for social clout.
paxys 3y ago
> But they are not intelligence and [...] Yes, and that is why the "artificial" qualifier is used. Artificial sugar is not sugar. Artificial flowers aren't flowers. That's the entire point of the term. AI as a field deals with teaching computers to approximate human intelligence. The term has been used since the 60s, and isn't going to change because random people are throwing online tantrums.
- _xivi 3y ago
  Except only those working in the field are familiar with the historical context and "AI as a field from the 60s". The public only see the advertisements. Are we really going to blame the victims and tell them, of course it's not intelligent, you dumbass, why did you trust its answer? you shouldn't have fallen for our marketing.
duckman1 3y ago
[dead]
golol 3y ago
So AI = AGI, I see.
- jantissler 3y ago
  Probably only true until we achieve AGI, because then it has to be ASI at minimum. I wonder at what point the goal posts can't be moved anymore. Or will we always find some creative way to distance ourselves? I think sometimes this topic scares people so much they immediately get into denial mode. And I'm not saying AGI is near. I have actually no idea if we need to wait for another breakthrough to enable that or not. But it's still obvious that “true AI“ is for some people always what computers can't do yet.

26 points by sloped 3y ago

To me, this is like asking if a hotdog is technically a sandwich. Who cares? It's semantics. This has the same vibe as, "Well, technically, Linux is just a kernel, not an operating system." No one cares, nerds. There's no point in trying to argue about this. People have adopted AI into their vernacular. It's not going to change at this point.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dreamglider 3y ago
The few thousand of people (worldwide), who were into NLP (Natural Language Processing) and were the drive behind the ML "revolution" - they care, but for other reasons. In like 10 years from now, when you ask for a hotdog but get a sandwich - then you may care too. But hey - that's happening right now, with humans, anyway ! :D

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jncfhnb 3y ago

Sentient Source is more alliterative.

simonw 3y ago

Artificial Intelligence is the name of the research field that this stuff comes out of. It was coined in 1956: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_workshop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_workshop Researchers have been using "AI" as a term to describe their work for nearly 70 years at this point. I don't see why we should throw away six decades of nomenclature just because "LLMs aren't actually intelligent". It's a perfectly cromulent term.

qeternity 3y ago
> cromulent Thanks for the new word of the day!
- glitchcrab 3y ago
  One could argue that it is not actually a word https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/what-does-cromulent-mean# https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/what-does-cromulent...
jampekka 3y ago
The term "Artificial Intelligence" was explictly not used in these fields for long stretches of time because the term got overhyped. The winter is coming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter
- hnenjoyer_93 3y ago
  A new winter is never coming, the last few years have shown the potential of machine learning and its use is only going to increase
  - lowmagnet 3y ago
    Considering the amount of carbon being pumped out to power all this, you may be right.
  - jampekka 3y ago
    Machine learning has taken huge leaps but the expectations for it are getting blown out of proportion. The use is going to increase for sure but there are many weaknesses in the technology that tend to be overlooked. E.g. autonomous driving already proved too hard a task for ML for the foreseeable future. Also "hallucination" is a problem with no clear solution in sight.
    - Izkata 3y ago

jchw 3y ago

I fully agree and also try to correct myself and use terms like "LLM" and "generative image models" as I really do feel the term "AI" is misleading at best... That said, I can't help but feel the cat is firmly out of the bag. Of course people have been calling lots of things AI for a long time, so this is nothing particularly new. I think we're just going to have to live with it.

jampekka 3y ago

I use a heuristic that if somebody says "AI", they don't know what they are talking about or are pandering to those who don't.

CharlesW 3y ago
Or, they're referring to the entire class of computer science.

bigyikes 3y ago

Stop saying AI? >But they are not intelligence and anyone who spends time with them quickly realizes they are just a very superpowered suggestion engine How about: stop moving goalposts. These models are obviously capable of acts of intelligence. If you told someone 10 years ago about the things these models can do, they would tell you the model is intelligent. The model does well on human exams that we use to measure intelligence. I get it, AI is a hype term, but to pretend that there is no intelligence is silly, and to pretend that you can redefine intelligence is hubris.

MarkusQ 3y ago
> These models are obviously capable of acts of intelligence. Except they aren't. They are capable of language and pattern manipulation, and really good at it. But if you concoct a novel problem that isn't found anywhere on the internet and confront them with it, they fail absurdly. Even if it's something that a kid could figure out. The Eliza effect strikes again!
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  > But if you concoct a novel problem that isn't found anywhere on the internet and confront them with it, they fail absurdly. Often they do, but sometimes they don't. > Even if it's something that a kid could figure out. Intelligent and smart aren't synonyms. Modern LLM's are obviously pretty stupid at times, but even a human with an IQ of 65 has some intelligence.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  > But if you concoct a novel problem that isn't found anywhere on the internet and confront them with it, they fail absurdly. Can you give an example?
  - LorenDB 3y ago
    Of course not, because then the AI would get trained on the proper answer! /s
- 3y ago

nbow 3y ago

I somewhat agree here, but not entirely. I think that in technical conversations it's much better to say llm, diffusion model, transformer, etc. But overall it's all Latin to the layman anyway. The use of AI as a marketing term is what I think is causing OP frustration, it's being marked as a panacea when it's far from it, but when is it ever? Social media was marketed as a life changing good for society too. Any conversation about AGI, does make me cringe. What an absolutely silly and moonshot thing to be having discussions about.

OkayPhysicist 3y ago

Artificial Intelligence has nothing to do with the capabilities, and everything to do with the approach. If I hand-crafted an algorithm that could reliably spot stop signs in pictures by applying a mountain of heuristics that I came up with, AI would not be an appropriate label. If I instead made a program that could detect stop signs after being fed thousands of pictures of stop signs, then I'm comfortable calling that machine learning, or AI, because the approach was based off modelling intelligence, i.e., the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

jampekka 3y ago
The former was the original use for "AI". The latter was called "machine learning" largely to contrast it with "AI" whose reputation had tanked due to hype.

matrss 3y ago

I find it useful to keep in mind that LLMs are essentially "just" random generators based on the probability distribution of some language (or more accurately a sample of that distribution in the form of a finite amount of text, a dataset). You don't expect a random generator to spit out facts, you expect to get random nonsense. But it can be very good at replicating the fitted probability distribution in its output, i.e. generate convincingly coherent language.

panqueca 3y ago

We could can: Probabilistic Next Token Caulculator

wilg 3y ago

Bikeshedding about terminology isn't worth anybody's time. You can be skeptical of technology without grandstanding about it for social clout.

paxys 3y ago

> But they are not intelligence and [...] Yes, and that is why the "artificial" qualifier is used. Artificial sugar is not sugar. Artificial flowers aren't flowers. That's the entire point of the term. AI as a field deals with teaching computers to approximate human intelligence. The term has been used since the 60s, and isn't going to change because random people are throwing online tantrums.

_xivi 3y ago
Except only those working in the field are familiar with the historical context and "AI as a field from the 60s". The public only see the advertisements. Are we really going to blame the victims and tell them, of course it's not intelligent, you dumbass, why did you trust its answer? you shouldn't have fallen for our marketing.

duckman1 3y ago

[dead]

golol 3y ago

So AI = AGI, I see.

jantissler 3y ago
Probably only true until we achieve AGI, because then it has to be ASI at minimum. I wonder at what point the goal posts can't be moved anymore. Or will we always find some creative way to distance ourselves? I think sometimes this topic scares people so much they immediately get into denial mode. And I'm not saying AGI is near. I have actually no idea if we need to wait for another breakthrough to enable that or not. But it's still obvious that “true AI“ is for some people always what computers can't do yet.