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This will be another issue determined by EU courts, but Apple is not justifying it as a show of force. They're justifying it based on Epic's prior breach of con

This will be another issue determined by EU courts, but Apple is not justifying it as a show of force. They're justifying it based on Epic's prior breach of contract and statements they've made. I think based on the record, courts will side with Apple.

Jensson 3y ago
Why would a 4 year old breach of contract warrant a ban today instead of 4 years ago? The trigger was that Epic criticized Apple, that doesn't seem like a warranted reason to ban someone even if they did something bad 4 years ago. Also since the DMA bans arrangement that Epic breached before, there is no reason to suspect that the EU account will breach anything new now, I really doubt EU will let this slide.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > The trigger was that Epic criticized Apple Epic has been criticising Apple almost every single day.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    Apple themselves said that the trigger was Epic criticizing them.
    - misnome 3y ago
      … according to Epic
      - whimsicalism 3y ago
        no, according to the emails that we can all read clear as day
        kemayo 3y ago
        The email I've seen from Schiller presents it as a combination -- it says that Epic has previously broken its agreement with Apple because of disagreements about the rules, and that Epic has publicly disagreed loudly with Apple's DMA rules. The disagreement wouldn't be a problem without the history of violations. No idea where this will actually go with the EU regulator, but US courts said it was okay for Apple to keep Epic's developer account suspended based on this.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        >Apple shared the following statement: >Epic’s egregious breach of its contractual obligations to Apple led courts to determine that Apple has the right to terminate ‘any or all of Epic Games’ wholly owned subsidiaries, affiliates, and/or other entities under Epic Games’ control at any time and at Apple’s sole discretion.’ In light of Epic’s past and ongoing behavior, Apple chose to exercise that right. emphasis mine.
- paulmd 3y ago
  presumably apple's ban on epic games is for life, not just for a year or two. and registering a new account doesn't change that - it's just ban evasion. to wit: you are still banned from reddit or paypal or any other online service, even if you create a new account. if they can link it they'll ban that one too. and this is a new account that epic games tried to register recently. so it got banned too. Not that complex/hard a concept really, unless you're trying not to understand it. again, do you think you have a right to create a second reddit account after your first one got banned from the service? how about a bank account, do you get a do-over if you do some fraud and get your first account banned?
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > presumably apple's ban on epic games is for life, not just for a year or two. and registering a new account doesn't change that - it's just ban evasion. They didn't ban every epic account back then, just the violating account. I am pretty sure most of epic games accounts are still there, just the fortnite account got banned.
  - int_19h 3y ago
    If Reddit were in the kind of market-dominant position than Apple is, then yes, absolutely, it should have been a right.
realusername 3y ago
Apple has nothing on their side aside from a few tweets criticizing them, that just won't cut it as an exemption to the DMA. It's not like Epic released malware or anything. Remember that the whole goal of the DMA is that actors like Apple and Google can't decide to block competiton on a whim, the exact thing they are doing right now.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  According to the article, they have the official court ruling…
  - realusername 3y ago
    In the US and in most countries, sure that'll be enough but in the EU, the DMA superseded their contracts. Apple might have got away with it if they had limited the ban to outside the EU but as I understand, they didn't.
  - jsnell 3y ago
    They don't have a court ruling on this that has any relevance in Europe.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Since the article was talking about Epics worldwide license….
      - jsnell 3y ago
        The article is talking about the license for Epic's EU subsidiary, which would have been used to launch an app store only in EU (as the only region where Apple is obligated to make competing app stores possible). When the EC, and possibly later the courts, evaluate whether this is breaking the DMA, a US court ruling permitting the closure of Epic's developer accounts has no bearing. The EU is a sovereign entity, enforcing its own laws in its own territory. A US court ruling can't compel the EU to allow Apple to violate EU laws when operating in the EU. How would that even work?
disgruntledphd2 3y ago
The EU courts won't, nor will the Commission.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
fennecbutt 3y ago
The courts and 49% of people would side with Apple even if it turned out they were grinding up orphans to make iPhones.

Jensson 3y ago

Why would a 4 year old breach of contract warrant a ban today instead of 4 years ago? The trigger was that Epic criticized Apple, that doesn't seem like a warranted reason to ban someone even if they did something bad 4 years ago. Also since the DMA bans arrangement that Epic breached before, there is no reason to suspect that the EU account will breach anything new now, I really doubt EU will let this slide.

threeseed 3y ago
> The trigger was that Epic criticized Apple Epic has been criticising Apple almost every single day.
- Jensson 3y ago
  Apple themselves said that the trigger was Epic criticizing them.
  - misnome 3y ago
    … according to Epic
    - whimsicalism 3y ago
      no, according to the emails that we can all read clear as day
      - kemayo 3y ago
        The email I've seen from Schiller presents it as a combination -- it says that Epic has previously broken its agreement with Apple because of disagreements about the rules, and that Epic has publicly disagreed loudly with Apple's DMA rules. The disagreement wouldn't be a problem without the history of violations. No idea where this will actually go with the EU regulator, but US courts said it was okay for Apple to keep Epic's developer account suspended based on this.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >Apple shared the following statement: >Epic’s egregious breach of its contractual obligations to Apple led courts to determine that Apple has the right to terminate ‘any or all of Epic Games’ wholly owned subsidiaries, affiliates, and/or other entities under Epic Games’ control at any time and at Apple’s sole discretion.’ In light of Epic’s past and ongoing behavior, Apple chose to exercise that right. emphasis mine.
paulmd 3y ago
presumably apple's ban on epic games is for life, not just for a year or two. and registering a new account doesn't change that - it's just ban evasion. to wit: you are still banned from reddit or paypal or any other online service, even if you create a new account. if they can link it they'll ban that one too. and this is a new account that epic games tried to register recently. so it got banned too. Not that complex/hard a concept really, unless you're trying not to understand it. again, do you think you have a right to create a second reddit account after your first one got banned from the service? how about a bank account, do you get a do-over if you do some fraud and get your first account banned?
- Jensson 3y ago
  > presumably apple's ban on epic games is for life, not just for a year or two. and registering a new account doesn't change that - it's just ban evasion. They didn't ban every epic account back then, just the violating account. I am pretty sure most of epic games accounts are still there, just the fortnite account got banned.
- int_19h 3y ago
  If Reddit were in the kind of market-dominant position than Apple is, then yes, absolutely, it should have been a right.

realusername 3y ago

Apple has nothing on their side aside from a few tweets criticizing them, that just won't cut it as an exemption to the DMA. It's not like Epic released malware or anything. Remember that the whole goal of the DMA is that actors like Apple and Google can't decide to block competiton on a whim, the exact thing they are doing right now.

scarface_74 3y ago
According to the article, they have the official court ruling…
- realusername 3y ago
  In the US and in most countries, sure that'll be enough but in the EU, the DMA superseded their contracts. Apple might have got away with it if they had limited the ban to outside the EU but as I understand, they didn't.
- jsnell 3y ago
  They don't have a court ruling on this that has any relevance in Europe.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Since the article was talking about Epics worldwide license….
    - jsnell 3y ago
      The article is talking about the license for Epic's EU subsidiary, which would have been used to launch an app store only in EU (as the only region where Apple is obligated to make competing app stores possible). When the EC, and possibly later the courts, evaluate whether this is breaking the DMA, a US court ruling permitting the closure of Epic's developer accounts has no bearing. The EU is a sovereign entity, enforcing its own laws in its own territory. A US court ruling can't compel the EU to allow Apple to violate EU laws when operating in the EU. How would that even work?

disgruntledphd2 3y ago

The EU courts won't, nor will the Commission.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

fennecbutt 3y ago

The courts and 49% of people would side with Apple even if it turned out they were grinding up orphans to make iPhones.