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I hear your point and it's a valid one. Consider the recent case of Tornado Cash and the Open Source Is Not A Crime movement. Two individuals were arrested for

by aillia 3y ago

I hear your point and it's a valid one. Consider the recent case of Tornado Cash and the Open Source Is Not A Crime movement. Two individuals were arrested for developing open-source code on GitHub. Just last week, GoFundMe shut down the Tornado Cash legal defense crowdfunding. This suggests that the state is more interested in protecting itself from individuals rather than defending their rights. This could potentially set a precedent where inventors or developers of decentralized technologies could be targeted, even if they've done nothing inherently wrong. If interested you can learn more here: https://wewantjusticedao.org/ https://wewantjusticedao.org/

hef19898 3y ago
Tornado Cash was what, money laundering and circumvention of sanctions? Pretty illegal.
thisgoesnowhere 3y ago
Well either that or what they were doing is just obviously illegal and they should be at fault for it.
cududa 3y ago
Oh this is bullshit and you know it. Another example of "we didn't call it a security so it's not a security" They weren't arrested for the code. They were arrested for actively participating and profiting off money laundering with North Korea being a customer. Zero-knowledge proofs are different from public ledgers. That's where the issue comes in to play. The Treasury Department has already given guidance that cryptocurrency mixers fall under Know Your Customer laws and the Bank Secrecy Act, and are required to know who exactly is using their services and how. It's not "Criminalizing Open Source". You live in a society with laws. Obfuscating classic financial products with tech jargon worked for the first half of the decade. Y'all are just mad it doesn't work anymore and claim "You just don't understand the technology. You haven't issued guidance on specifics of crypto currency. You can't use hundred year old laws" Yes, you can use 100 year old laws. At the end of the day, the financial shenanigans of most crypto, exchanges, and tokens are fundamentally the same things that have already been regulated. You just have new words.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  You live in a society of variable laws that change at runtime get applied unevenly.
  - cududa 3y ago
    Class templates get applied at runtime based on the heap size/ legacy properties of the initializing task. If we’re using software metaphors for things that aren’t software, I can pull that card too.
- pushedx 3y ago
  The first half of which decade?
  - cududa 3y ago
    Your pedantism perfectly illustrates my point
avgDev 3y ago
Tornado cash was doing something illegal. GoFundMe is a business, which may do whatever it wants. Tornado Cash has no rights to obtain funds though GoFundMe.
- soojimit 3y ago
  Tornado Cash is a protocol which can be used by both good and bad actors. Saying TC was responsible for bad actors laundering their crypto through the protocol is like saying auto makers are responsible for car crashes or Bob Kahn is responsible for all the illegal activities on the internet.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    Or like gun manufacturers are liable for crimes! Oh they've been sued and lost [1]? Maybe not that one. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-remington-settlement-e53b95d398ee9b838afc06275a4df403 https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-reming...
    - freeAgent 3y ago
      Civil and criminal law are two separate things.
  - lordfrito 3y ago
    Even if used by "good actors", you're still facilitating money laundering. Which is always illegal. There is no "legal" way to launder money.
    - pcthrowaway 3y ago
      The technology behind Tornado Cash could also be used for instituting something like truly fully anonymous group surveys (such as those employee surveys big companies always ask you to take that they claim are "anonymous") It doesn't have to be used for money laundering, and even if using it to move funds anonymously, that doesn't mean you're money laundering. There are good reasons to not want individuals and state actors whose jurisdiction you're not under to track your financial movements, even if you are reporting your income accurately with your own government.

by aillia 3y ago

hef19898 3y ago

Tornado Cash was what, money laundering and circumvention of sanctions? Pretty illegal.

thisgoesnowhere 3y ago

Well either that or what they were doing is just obviously illegal and they should be at fault for it.

cududa 3y ago

Oh this is bullshit and you know it. Another example of "we didn't call it a security so it's not a security" They weren't arrested for the code. They were arrested for actively participating and profiting off money laundering with North Korea being a customer. Zero-knowledge proofs are different from public ledgers. That's where the issue comes in to play. The Treasury Department has already given guidance that cryptocurrency mixers fall under Know Your Customer laws and the Bank Secrecy Act, and are required to know who exactly is using their services and how. It's not "Criminalizing Open Source". You live in a society with laws. Obfuscating classic financial products with tech jargon worked for the first half of the decade. Y'all are just mad it doesn't work anymore and claim "You just don't understand the technology. You haven't issued guidance on specifics of crypto currency. You can't use hundred year old laws" Yes, you can use 100 year old laws. At the end of the day, the financial shenanigans of most crypto, exchanges, and tokens are fundamentally the same things that have already been regulated. You just have new words.

ipaddr 3y ago
You live in a society of variable laws that change at runtime get applied unevenly.
- cududa 3y ago
  Class templates get applied at runtime based on the heap size/ legacy properties of the initializing task. If we’re using software metaphors for things that aren’t software, I can pull that card too.
pushedx 3y ago
The first half of which decade?
- cududa 3y ago
  Your pedantism perfectly illustrates my point

avgDev 3y ago

Tornado cash was doing something illegal. GoFundMe is a business, which may do whatever it wants. Tornado Cash has no rights to obtain funds though GoFundMe.

soojimit 3y ago
Tornado Cash is a protocol which can be used by both good and bad actors. Saying TC was responsible for bad actors laundering their crypto through the protocol is like saying auto makers are responsible for car crashes or Bob Kahn is responsible for all the illegal activities on the internet.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  Or like gun manufacturers are liable for crimes! Oh they've been sued and lost [1]? Maybe not that one. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-remington-settlement-e53b95d398ee9b838afc06275a4df403 https://apnews.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-reming...
  - freeAgent 3y ago
    Civil and criminal law are two separate things.
- lordfrito 3y ago
  Even if used by "good actors", you're still facilitating money laundering. Which is always illegal. There is no "legal" way to launder money.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    The technology behind Tornado Cash could also be used for instituting something like truly fully anonymous group surveys (such as those employee surveys big companies always ask you to take that they claim are "anonymous") It doesn't have to be used for money laundering, and even if using it to move funds anonymously, that doesn't mean you're money laundering. There are good reasons to not want individuals and state actors whose jurisdiction you're not under to track your financial movements, even if you are reporting your income accurately with your own government.