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I returned mine today after attempting to use it for work for a few hours at a time over the last week. I felt the same eye strain with my Mac as a mirrored dis

I returned mine today after attempting to use it for work for a few hours at a time over the last week. I felt the same eye strain with my Mac as a mirrored display. Zoom calls were cool, but nobody could take the Persona seriously. After a few days the eye strain seemed to get worse and worse, until yesterday it give me such a bad headache I decided that was enough.

cromka 3y ago
> Zoom calls were cool, but nobody could take the Persona seriously. This is going to be another of their socially awkward gimmicks like Memojis they will double down until they inevitably fail. I really feel like Apple actually just doesn’t feel it and every time they’re pushing their weird geeky ideas onto their users they loose a bit of coolness factor. And if kids decide Apple got too cringe, while someone else manages to use that to spin their momentum (think e.g. Nokia respawning riding the 90s sentiment wave), they may actually start to seriously struggle.
- ApolIllo 3y ago
  Damn. My family use Memojis heavily!
  - amiantos 3y ago
    Don't worry, most people on Hacker News have no real idea how normal everyday people use tech products. This person thinks Memojis are unused, but they just lack perspective.
    - gffrd 3y ago
      100% of my social circle works outside tech, and nobody uses memojis
      - jnaina 3y ago
        The world is bigger than just the US of A. Memojis are big among the teen set elsewhere.
        cromka 3y ago
        If the amount of internet content regarding Memojis is to be a judge, Memojis might as well not exist at all. From my broad circle in the US and Europe, I know one person who sends one maybe once a quarter.
        hnaccount_rng 3y ago
        Wait till you find out where Apple makes >50% of its revenue ;)
        gffrd 3y ago
        Pray tell, where should we be talking about?
    - maximus-decimus 3y ago
      > how normal everyday people use tech products What do you mean? Obviously normies all browse the web in emacs and write their own plugins in elisp.
    - cromka 3y ago
      > This person thinks Memojis are unused, but they just lack perspective. Or maybe you lack perspective, because maybe some people use it in your circle, but otherwise it’s very unpopular? Observational fallacies work both ways.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    They’re wildly popular with the kids in my orbit especially 6-12
  - starkparker 3y ago
    The point is that Apple trades in part on being fashionable. Lots of people use Facebook but virtually nobody considers Facebook to be fashionable. Meta doesn't care if Facebook is fashionable, but the more Apple looks like Meta, the bigger the opening for being disrupted on that front gets.
- haswell 3y ago
  > This is going to be another of their socially awkward gimmicks like Memojis they will double down until they inevitably fail. I don't necessarily agree. Some have talked about how the weirdness starts to fade after getting into a conversation and focusing on the discussion or collaboration at hand. It seems that once the brain has adjusted a bit, it can start to fill in for the badness somewhat. The feature clearly has a long way to go before it's good, but I think it's premature to dismiss it. Future iterations will only improve, so if some people are finding some success with it now, that will only grow.
  - cromka 3y ago
    No, I absolutely get that. I still remember how talking to yourself wearing wired headset on the street was weird. But it’s been over 5 years since Apple started pushing Memojis, they still continued as recently as last year and they have little adoption still, as far as I am aware. Those who watched WWDC remember how cringey those Memoji bits were, I specifically refer to that aspect of their being increasingly out of touch.
    - haswell 3y ago
      I dunno. I know people who use their Memojis regularly and seem to enjoy it. I personally do not, but I think I’m not their target user. Not sure what the broader adoption looks like. But I think these are different enough capabilities that the success or failure of one is not necessarily predictive of the other.
      - cromka 3y ago
        > Not sure what the broader adoption looks like. Just google news Memojis and see what you get. Hardly any content, and if you navigate 2-3 pages further, you quickly reach 2022 and 2021 articles. If that doesn't scream "low adoption" then I don't know what does.
        haswell 3y ago
        As a method of estimating adoption, that seems fairly suspect. It doesn't exactly seem like a capability that would generate much news. Google Trends seems more likely to be instructive, and as a topic, it has shown fairly steady (if low) interest over time after peaking on release with some periodic spikes most likely correlated with major updates. But as a feature, I wouldn't expect even Google trends to be very instructive (for understanding adoption), since people who know how to use them aren't likely to be out there searching. More use = more familiarity = less searching. Who knows; maybe they're barely used, but there isn't good data to back up that claim, and there are a number of other ways to interpret the data that does exist. With all of that said, I'll maintain that I don't see any real connection between them and Personas, or any predictive value in comparing them.
- gffrd 3y ago
  I’ve wondered the same. Apple has been a “given” for 20 years because they somehow keep shipping great stuff and avoid the Microsoft trap of looking like total dorks by existing in an echo chamber. Even if they made a small misstep or had an awkward moment in a launch announcement, it was seen as endearing and forgivable. But there seem to be an increase in moments where Apple comes across as behind the curve, or not as aware of where the public is at relative to them, compared to then.
  - leptons 3y ago
    >avoid the Microsoft trap of looking like total dorks by existing in an echo chamber. Lolwhut?? Microsoft wishes it had a fraction of the echo chamber Apple fans create. It's what Apple is known for. >Even if they made a small misstep or had an awkward moment in a launch announcement, it was seen as endearing and forgivable. Uhhhh... "You're holding it wrong" was an absolute unmitigated PR disaster for Apple. It was one of the worst kinks ever in the "reality distortion field". People were rightly pissed. It was smug and stupid, not endearing.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      You're misunderstanding. Apple exists in an echo chamber, Microsoft wishes they did.
    - RajT88 3y ago
      > "You're holding it wrong" I cringe every time I hear someone say this to malign stupid users. Yes, I hear it at work. Some people legit only read the headlines about that story, not the articles.
    - saurik 3y ago
      I believe the premise is that Microsoft--the employees and management or whatever: the entity, not the ecosystem or the users--exists in an echo chamber... as in, they keep thinking their users want stuff but their users actually don't.
- cozzyd 3y ago
  I've never heard of memojis before...
  - tyfon 3y ago
    Same, and now I feel old again : - \
- threeseed 3y ago
  By definition it isn't a gimmick. You either have some rendered 3D model or you take the headset off when making a call. Physics dictates that those are your only two choices.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  > they’re pushing their weird geeky ideas onto their users This thing is like $5k all-in and even then you have to get on a waiting list. I wouldn’t really say that they’re pushing this on people.
  - cromka 3y ago
    Not talking about the device itself here.
- elif 3y ago
  I imagine version 2 will likely have uncanny-valley-crossing AI filters to make it indistinguishable from your real face, background and expressions.
- 38 3y ago
  > coolness factor Apple hasn't been cool for a long, long time. Everyone has an iPhone so it's no longer special. It's just a waste of money when you can get basically the same android phone for half the price
- mvkel 3y ago
  What's the alternative? You have goggles strapped to your face. Personas are the only thing you -can- do to have any sense of presence on a call. It's not perfect. It's not even good. But it's better than nothing.
- bagels 3y ago
  We're so close to having ai just re-render your face in the videos.
crazygringo 3y ago
> After a few days the eye strain seemed to get worse and worse, until yesterday it give me such a bad headache I decided that was enough. Curious if you've ever gotten your vision tested? I don't need glasses in everyday life, but I did go to an optometrist and got a pair anyways after I got annoyed one night that a friend could read a faraway sign and I couldn't quite. They make things a little bit sharper but not that it ever makes a difference for anything I actually need. But then I discovered that if I wear them, zero eye strain in VR. Without them my eyes hurt after 20 minutes. With them, I can use VR for hours, zero problem. No idea why. And I can't seem to find much information on it, but I asked my optometrist and they said it's a whole thing -- people who wear glasses sometimes not to see better, but to reduce eye strain and headaches.
- valvar 3y ago
  Interesting. I'm also nearsighted, so I've always assumed that I don't need glasses when wearing VR headsets. It's easier to just take them off before putting on the headset (MQ3) and I've not noticed a difference in clarity — but I do experience eye strain and visual exhaustion if I wear the headset for too long, so it might be worth comparing longer sessions with and without glasses.
  - astrange 3y ago
    VR headsets work like you're focusing at least a few feet away, so if you're nearsighted you need vision correction.
- homefree 3y ago
  Other vision issues can be relevant too. I have a very slight lazy eye - I can still see 3D video but my stereo vision is worse than average. I suspect it affects the eye tracking because for me it feels a little tedious and imperfect, but others don’t seem to feel that way.
  - astrange 3y ago
    You may be able to help this with toric contacts. The inserts don't do prism correction so can't help with that specifically.
rubicon33 3y ago
Could be the motion blur. Vision Pro is in this really weird cross section of insanely good visuals but really bad motion blur. Generally a little motion blur is OK, but the better your visuals get, the worse and more apparent motion blur can be. Personally I found AVP to be most draining if I'm moving my head around a lot and experiencing this motion blur. If I'm just looking at the screen in front of me, I get fatigued less

cromka 3y ago

> Zoom calls were cool, but nobody could take the Persona seriously. This is going to be another of their socially awkward gimmicks like Memojis they will double down until they inevitably fail. I really feel like Apple actually just doesn’t feel it and every time they’re pushing their weird geeky ideas onto their users they loose a bit of coolness factor. And if kids decide Apple got too cringe, while someone else manages to use that to spin their momentum (think e.g. Nokia respawning riding the 90s sentiment wave), they may actually start to seriously struggle.

ApolIllo 3y ago
Damn. My family use Memojis heavily!
- amiantos 3y ago
  Don't worry, most people on Hacker News have no real idea how normal everyday people use tech products. This person thinks Memojis are unused, but they just lack perspective.
  - gffrd 3y ago
    100% of my social circle works outside tech, and nobody uses memojis
    - jnaina 3y ago
      The world is bigger than just the US of A. Memojis are big among the teen set elsewhere.
      - cromka 3y ago
        If the amount of internet content regarding Memojis is to be a judge, Memojis might as well not exist at all. From my broad circle in the US and Europe, I know one person who sends one maybe once a quarter.
        hnaccount_rng 3y ago
        Wait till you find out where Apple makes >50% of its revenue ;)
      - gffrd 3y ago
        Pray tell, where should we be talking about?
  - maximus-decimus 3y ago
    > how normal everyday people use tech products What do you mean? Obviously normies all browse the web in emacs and write their own plugins in elisp.
  - cromka 3y ago
    > This person thinks Memojis are unused, but they just lack perspective. Or maybe you lack perspective, because maybe some people use it in your circle, but otherwise it’s very unpopular? Observational fallacies work both ways.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  They’re wildly popular with the kids in my orbit especially 6-12
- starkparker 3y ago
  The point is that Apple trades in part on being fashionable. Lots of people use Facebook but virtually nobody considers Facebook to be fashionable. Meta doesn't care if Facebook is fashionable, but the more Apple looks like Meta, the bigger the opening for being disrupted on that front gets.
haswell 3y ago
> This is going to be another of their socially awkward gimmicks like Memojis they will double down until they inevitably fail. I don't necessarily agree. Some have talked about how the weirdness starts to fade after getting into a conversation and focusing on the discussion or collaboration at hand. It seems that once the brain has adjusted a bit, it can start to fill in for the badness somewhat. The feature clearly has a long way to go before it's good, but I think it's premature to dismiss it. Future iterations will only improve, so if some people are finding some success with it now, that will only grow.
- cromka 3y ago
  No, I absolutely get that. I still remember how talking to yourself wearing wired headset on the street was weird. But it’s been over 5 years since Apple started pushing Memojis, they still continued as recently as last year and they have little adoption still, as far as I am aware. Those who watched WWDC remember how cringey those Memoji bits were, I specifically refer to that aspect of their being increasingly out of touch.
  - haswell 3y ago
    I dunno. I know people who use their Memojis regularly and seem to enjoy it. I personally do not, but I think I’m not their target user. Not sure what the broader adoption looks like. But I think these are different enough capabilities that the success or failure of one is not necessarily predictive of the other.
    - cromka 3y ago
      > Not sure what the broader adoption looks like. Just google news Memojis and see what you get. Hardly any content, and if you navigate 2-3 pages further, you quickly reach 2022 and 2021 articles. If that doesn't scream "low adoption" then I don't know what does.
      - haswell 3y ago
        As a method of estimating adoption, that seems fairly suspect. It doesn't exactly seem like a capability that would generate much news. Google Trends seems more likely to be instructive, and as a topic, it has shown fairly steady (if low) interest over time after peaking on release with some periodic spikes most likely correlated with major updates. But as a feature, I wouldn't expect even Google trends to be very instructive (for understanding adoption), since people who know how to use them aren't likely to be out there searching. More use = more familiarity = less searching. Who knows; maybe they're barely used, but there isn't good data to back up that claim, and there are a number of other ways to interpret the data that does exist. With all of that said, I'll maintain that I don't see any real connection between them and Personas, or any predictive value in comparing them.
gffrd 3y ago
I’ve wondered the same. Apple has been a “given” for 20 years because they somehow keep shipping great stuff and avoid the Microsoft trap of looking like total dorks by existing in an echo chamber. Even if they made a small misstep or had an awkward moment in a launch announcement, it was seen as endearing and forgivable. But there seem to be an increase in moments where Apple comes across as behind the curve, or not as aware of where the public is at relative to them, compared to then.
- leptons 3y ago
  >avoid the Microsoft trap of looking like total dorks by existing in an echo chamber. Lolwhut?? Microsoft wishes it had a fraction of the echo chamber Apple fans create. It's what Apple is known for. >Even if they made a small misstep or had an awkward moment in a launch announcement, it was seen as endearing and forgivable. Uhhhh... "You're holding it wrong" was an absolute unmitigated PR disaster for Apple. It was one of the worst kinks ever in the "reality distortion field". People were rightly pissed. It was smug and stupid, not endearing.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    You're misunderstanding. Apple exists in an echo chamber, Microsoft wishes they did.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    > "You're holding it wrong" I cringe every time I hear someone say this to malign stupid users. Yes, I hear it at work. Some people legit only read the headlines about that story, not the articles.
  - saurik 3y ago
    I believe the premise is that Microsoft--the employees and management or whatever: the entity, not the ecosystem or the users--exists in an echo chamber... as in, they keep thinking their users want stuff but their users actually don't.
cozzyd 3y ago
I've never heard of memojis before...
- tyfon 3y ago
  Same, and now I feel old again : - \
threeseed 3y ago
By definition it isn't a gimmick. You either have some rendered 3D model or you take the headset off when making a call. Physics dictates that those are your only two choices.
Kon-Peki 3y ago
> they’re pushing their weird geeky ideas onto their users This thing is like $5k all-in and even then you have to get on a waiting list. I wouldn’t really say that they’re pushing this on people.
- cromka 3y ago
  Not talking about the device itself here.
elif 3y ago
I imagine version 2 will likely have uncanny-valley-crossing AI filters to make it indistinguishable from your real face, background and expressions.
38 3y ago
> coolness factor Apple hasn't been cool for a long, long time. Everyone has an iPhone so it's no longer special. It's just a waste of money when you can get basically the same android phone for half the price
mvkel 3y ago
What's the alternative? You have goggles strapped to your face. Personas are the only thing you -can- do to have any sense of presence on a call. It's not perfect. It's not even good. But it's better than nothing.
bagels 3y ago
We're so close to having ai just re-render your face in the videos.

crazygringo 3y ago

> After a few days the eye strain seemed to get worse and worse, until yesterday it give me such a bad headache I decided that was enough. Curious if you've ever gotten your vision tested? I don't need glasses in everyday life, but I did go to an optometrist and got a pair anyways after I got annoyed one night that a friend could read a faraway sign and I couldn't quite. They make things a little bit sharper but not that it ever makes a difference for anything I actually need. But then I discovered that if I wear them, zero eye strain in VR. Without them my eyes hurt after 20 minutes. With them, I can use VR for hours, zero problem. No idea why. And I can't seem to find much information on it, but I asked my optometrist and they said it's a whole thing -- people who wear glasses sometimes not to see better, but to reduce eye strain and headaches.

valvar 3y ago
Interesting. I'm also nearsighted, so I've always assumed that I don't need glasses when wearing VR headsets. It's easier to just take them off before putting on the headset (MQ3) and I've not noticed a difference in clarity — but I do experience eye strain and visual exhaustion if I wear the headset for too long, so it might be worth comparing longer sessions with and without glasses.
- astrange 3y ago
  VR headsets work like you're focusing at least a few feet away, so if you're nearsighted you need vision correction.
homefree 3y ago
Other vision issues can be relevant too. I have a very slight lazy eye - I can still see 3D video but my stereo vision is worse than average. I suspect it affects the eye tracking because for me it feels a little tedious and imperfect, but others don’t seem to feel that way.
- astrange 3y ago
  You may be able to help this with toric contacts. The inserts don't do prism correction so can't help with that specifically.

rubicon33 3y ago

Could be the motion blur. Vision Pro is in this really weird cross section of insanely good visuals but really bad motion blur. Generally a little motion blur is OK, but the better your visuals get, the worse and more apparent motion blur can be. Personally I found AVP to be most draining if I'm moving my head around a lot and experiencing this motion blur. If I'm just looking at the screen in front of me, I get fatigued less