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I've been looking into getting my pilot's license and taking a serious look at the training required for quite some time. Talking with other pilots and students

I've been looking into getting my pilot's license and taking a serious look at the training required for quite some time. Talking with other pilots and students, asking a lot of questions. They are starting to reduce some of the strict requirements and encumbrances placed on Pilots such as this because of the shortages. I'm in the unfortunate position of having a DWI from 2009 and have been told by multiple people in the industry that would hinder my career prospects as a pilot. Essentially, I've got no shot at getting hired by American or any other major airline because of something stupid I did when I was in college 14 years ago. I don't have a drinking problem and am a completely different person. It sucks.

pageandrew 3y ago
Not an airline pilot / medical examiner, but I do read r/flying quite regularly. Your story is not uncommon. The general wisdom on DWIs is that yes it does hurt your chances of getting into airlines, but if it was (1) minor/borderline, (2) a long time ago, and (3) you have shown a pattern of recovery, it is not a career ender.
- instaheat 3y ago
  I am still going to go through the motions and earn my hours, criminal history be damned. I was under .15 at the time, which as I understand it, helps me significantly. Also looking at helicopter/flight medic but for now I am starting back to school in January to finish my AAS in Cybersecurity followed by BS in CS.
askonomm 3y ago
I never understood why in some countries the system never forgets - it's like they want to punish you till death, even after you already served your sentence. In Estonia, no matter how horrific the crime, your record gets wiped after 7 years since you finished serving the sentence (got out of prison / probation ended / paid a fine), allowing for people to move on with their lives.
- gosub100 3y ago
  Because it would damage the reputation of the airline if, in a future incident, the media reports that "and record show he had a previous arrest for DWI". The media would spin it to look like the airline took the risk. I'm not defending that take, just explaining it.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    The key point is to expunge these old criminal records so no one could find them. Not the media, not a future employer.
    - cjbprime 3y ago
      Not possible for any crime that is reported on by media, surely.
      - askonomm 3y ago
        If its online newspapers then in EU we have the "right to be forgotten" which helps with those articles to be removed from search engines.
        ffgjgf1 3y ago
        > which helps Especially if you’re a corrupt politician, child abuser etc. it’s really helpful for that sort of people. Not so much for everyone else, but why would that ever be an issue?
        askonomm 3y ago
        I would think that, especially in a everything-online world, this is very useful for regular people. I for sure have removed some links to embarrassing posts I made as a teen, to which I've long lost account access to, to remove manually. And now with everybody's kids being on Tik Tok etc since very early age, I assume it will be used more and more.
yeowMeng 3y ago
Not sure this will be helpful but here goes. I wanted to be a pilot but am tall (> 6 feet) and poor eye sight (< -10). I was told at a young age that it would be nearly impossible for me. I accepted my fate for better or worse. Yet you have a better chance than me. Hard to say if it’s worth pursuing. Nevertheless, I sympathize with you because people can make big mistakes and learn from it but the categorization and stigma remains. Best of luck to you.
- instaheat 3y ago
  I feel bad for you. I'm sorry to hear that. I appreciate your comment. I do have excellent eye sight and am of average height. I've wondered if flying private would be any different. I don't "NEED" to work for AA.
- cjbprime 3y ago
  For what it's worth, I'm only an enthusiast but would be surprised to hear either of those are significant issues, unless you're saying that your corrected eyesight is also poor.
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  I’m curious how these aspects are not considered discriminatory - eyesight is commonly fixed by glasses and height is fixed by not squeezing every last dollar out of floorspace - which I would compare to wheelchair accessible buildings (acknowledging the latter is typically more restrictive due to scale). I’m not trying to go woke here, there are disabilities that prevent performing certain tasks such as flying (total blindness or colour blindness) but there are others which are easily worked around.
  - genocidicbunny 3y ago
    In many airplanes, there are legitimate restrictions on how tall you can be as a pilot -- there simply isn't enough room up there for taller pilots to fit. As for eyesight, I'd imagine it's for the case when the pilot loses/breaks/forgets their glasses. You don't want a pilot who suddenly can't see in midair.
cmurf 3y ago
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DUIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents_Disposition_Table.pdf https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DUIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents... You can call AMAS (Aviation Medicine Advisory Service) for an opinion. But ultimately you'll discuss your situation with an AME when applying for a medical certificate, including whether you're best off with 3rd class now and 1st class later. Or just aiming for 1st class right away.
sokoloff 3y ago
It’s hard to say what the policies of the majors will be 5 years from now when you’re ready, but Delta’s current policy is “no DUI in the past 10 years”. I think the structure of the pilot market is such that tightening of voluntary restrictions is unlikely.
- instaheat 3y ago
  That's promising, thank you.
btilly 3y ago
It could be worse. An estimated 1/4 of all registered sex offenders were minors at the time that they became offenders. The single year of your life when you're most likely to become one is 14. There are a lot of horror stories like a guy whose 13 year old girlfriend send him a nude photo, her parents found out and reported it, and now he can't live within a certain distance of an elementary school for the rest of his life. Yeah, if a 24 year old man has pictures of a 13 year old, that's a problem. But a 14 year old boy having pictures of a 13 year old girl? As a society, we really don't believe in forgiveness.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  The issue here is not the registered offenders list but that things like this are considered crimes and somebody could be convicted for them. It’s not about forgiveness, it’s about minimizing future harm. If you are an actual (and there should be a sufficiently high bar for that) convicted child abuser you should never be allowed to be employed in any job which allows you to have authority over children etc. in such cases “forgiveness” would certainly be against the public interest.
  - btilly 3y ago
    I don't disagree with you. And I don't disagree with you for the simple reason that, according to all evidence, "pedophile" is not a characteristic that people can change. Any more than "gay" is. But that's not the way that the law is written.
- smittywerben 3y ago
  I don't understand how giving a statistic of the average age of juvenile sex offenders supports your point.
  - btilly 3y ago
    The point is that we, as a society, sometimes punish people severely forever. Even when there is no reason to believe that that person is a risk to society. They aren't in a category called juvenile sex offenders. They are simply registered sex offenders. For the rest of their lives. Randomly punished forever for doing normal stupid kid things. https://jlc.org/issues/juvenile-sex-offender-registry-sorna https://jlc.org/issues/juvenile-sex-offender-registry-sorna estimates this at about 200,000 unlucky people.
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
You've "been told?" Don't take it as gospel. Move forward and get your license. At the very least, you'll be able to take satisfaction in having achieved something most people haven't.
- instaheat 3y ago
  Great take. I certainly intend on continuing.
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    Excellent. Good luck!

pageandrew 3y ago

Not an airline pilot / medical examiner, but I do read r/flying quite regularly. Your story is not uncommon. The general wisdom on DWIs is that yes it does hurt your chances of getting into airlines, but if it was (1) minor/borderline, (2) a long time ago, and (3) you have shown a pattern of recovery, it is not a career ender.

instaheat 3y ago
I am still going to go through the motions and earn my hours, criminal history be damned. I was under .15 at the time, which as I understand it, helps me significantly. Also looking at helicopter/flight medic but for now I am starting back to school in January to finish my AAS in Cybersecurity followed by BS in CS.

askonomm 3y ago

I never understood why in some countries the system never forgets - it's like they want to punish you till death, even after you already served your sentence. In Estonia, no matter how horrific the crime, your record gets wiped after 7 years since you finished serving the sentence (got out of prison / probation ended / paid a fine), allowing for people to move on with their lives.

gosub100 3y ago
Because it would damage the reputation of the airline if, in a future incident, the media reports that "and record show he had a previous arrest for DWI". The media would spin it to look like the airline took the risk. I'm not defending that take, just explaining it.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  The key point is to expunge these old criminal records so no one could find them. Not the media, not a future employer.
  - cjbprime 3y ago
    Not possible for any crime that is reported on by media, surely.
    - askonomm 3y ago
      If its online newspapers then in EU we have the "right to be forgotten" which helps with those articles to be removed from search engines.
      - ffgjgf1 3y ago
        > which helps Especially if you’re a corrupt politician, child abuser etc. it’s really helpful for that sort of people. Not so much for everyone else, but why would that ever be an issue?
        askonomm 3y ago
        I would think that, especially in a everything-online world, this is very useful for regular people. I for sure have removed some links to embarrassing posts I made as a teen, to which I've long lost account access to, to remove manually. And now with everybody's kids being on Tik Tok etc since very early age, I assume it will be used more and more.

yeowMeng 3y ago

Not sure this will be helpful but here goes. I wanted to be a pilot but am tall (> 6 feet) and poor eye sight (< -10). I was told at a young age that it would be nearly impossible for me. I accepted my fate for better or worse. Yet you have a better chance than me. Hard to say if it’s worth pursuing. Nevertheless, I sympathize with you because people can make big mistakes and learn from it but the categorization and stigma remains. Best of luck to you.

instaheat 3y ago
I feel bad for you. I'm sorry to hear that. I appreciate your comment. I do have excellent eye sight and am of average height. I've wondered if flying private would be any different. I don't "NEED" to work for AA.
cjbprime 3y ago
For what it's worth, I'm only an enthusiast but would be surprised to hear either of those are significant issues, unless you're saying that your corrected eyesight is also poor.
hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
I’m curious how these aspects are not considered discriminatory - eyesight is commonly fixed by glasses and height is fixed by not squeezing every last dollar out of floorspace - which I would compare to wheelchair accessible buildings (acknowledging the latter is typically more restrictive due to scale). I’m not trying to go woke here, there are disabilities that prevent performing certain tasks such as flying (total blindness or colour blindness) but there are others which are easily worked around.
- genocidicbunny 3y ago
  In many airplanes, there are legitimate restrictions on how tall you can be as a pilot -- there simply isn't enough room up there for taller pilots to fit. As for eyesight, I'd imagine it's for the case when the pilot loses/breaks/forgets their glasses. You don't want a pilot who suddenly can't see in midair.

cmurf 3y ago

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DUIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents_Disposition_Table.pdf https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DUIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents... You can call AMAS (Aviation Medicine Advisory Service) for an opinion. But ultimately you'll discuss your situation with an AME when applying for a medical certificate, including whether you're best off with 3rd class now and 1st class later. Or just aiming for 1st class right away.

sokoloff 3y ago

It’s hard to say what the policies of the majors will be 5 years from now when you’re ready, but Delta’s current policy is “no DUI in the past 10 years”. I think the structure of the pilot market is such that tightening of voluntary restrictions is unlikely.

instaheat 3y ago
That's promising, thank you.

btilly 3y ago

It could be worse. An estimated 1/4 of all registered sex offenders were minors at the time that they became offenders. The single year of your life when you're most likely to become one is 14. There are a lot of horror stories like a guy whose 13 year old girlfriend send him a nude photo, her parents found out and reported it, and now he can't live within a certain distance of an elementary school for the rest of his life. Yeah, if a 24 year old man has pictures of a 13 year old, that's a problem. But a 14 year old boy having pictures of a 13 year old girl? As a society, we really don't believe in forgiveness.

ffgjgf1 3y ago
The issue here is not the registered offenders list but that things like this are considered crimes and somebody could be convicted for them. It’s not about forgiveness, it’s about minimizing future harm. If you are an actual (and there should be a sufficiently high bar for that) convicted child abuser you should never be allowed to be employed in any job which allows you to have authority over children etc. in such cases “forgiveness” would certainly be against the public interest.
- btilly 3y ago
  I don't disagree with you. And I don't disagree with you for the simple reason that, according to all evidence, "pedophile" is not a characteristic that people can change. Any more than "gay" is. But that's not the way that the law is written.
smittywerben 3y ago
I don't understand how giving a statistic of the average age of juvenile sex offenders supports your point.
- btilly 3y ago
  The point is that we, as a society, sometimes punish people severely forever. Even when there is no reason to believe that that person is a risk to society. They aren't in a category called juvenile sex offenders. They are simply registered sex offenders. For the rest of their lives. Randomly punished forever for doing normal stupid kid things. https://jlc.org/issues/juvenile-sex-offender-registry-sorna https://jlc.org/issues/juvenile-sex-offender-registry-sorna estimates this at about 200,000 unlucky people.

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago

You've "been told?" Don't take it as gospel. Move forward and get your license. At the very least, you'll be able to take satisfaction in having achieved something most people haven't.

instaheat 3y ago
Great take. I certainly intend on continuing.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  Excellent. Good luck!