7 ms·

Some things to note, unless the bill was modified from the version I read before being signed into law: This doesnt apply to any information which is public re

by ds 3y ago

Some things to note, unless the bill was modified from the version I read before being signed into law: This doesnt apply to any information which is public record as a matter-of-fact. So if you voted, your address and name is public record and can be used and displayed by these sites. If you got a DUI, your mugshot and arrest record may be public record and can be displayed. If you got into a custody battle and your court case was public, that can be displayed. And I guess that all makes sense in the end. If you got into a DUI, how does the government get to tell random website X that they are not allowed to say that you got into a DUI, especially when the information was public record. So to be clear, if the peoplefinder style websites want to keep whitepages.com/user/john-smith online with an address, phone number and mugshot- They can tell you to pound sand and do so. This bill cant stop that. Honestly, Theres alot of hype about this bill in general which is going to be... interesting... when people fail to understand what it can and cant be used for. Additionally, this bill comes with a caveat that the sites can request proof you are living in california currently, via a license scan or some other method you get to now hand over to the data broker. That said, in our research for https://redact.dev https://redact.dev supporting these features from a pure API only interaction, is that most of the sites just delete you if you use their form. They dont want the headache of insane users threatening them and doing crazy shit because they dont delete their profile. And honestly the people who go through these removal processes are less than 1% of the stored data, so its mostly just a cost of doing business.

newman314 3y ago
If you know the magic incantation to remove data from BlockShopper, I'm quite sure lots of folks would be interested in knowing how to do so.
- therockspush 3y ago
  Used to be, in the good old days, getting yourself off lexisnexis did a good chunk of the heavy lifting out of these data pits. For anyone who doesn't know what BlockShopper does, what does it do?
  - newman314 3y ago
    See https://blog.incogni.com/blockshopper-opt-out/ https://blog.incogni.com/blockshopper-opt-out/ It is nigh impossible to remove data from them.
- ds 3y ago
  It will vary state by state. In florida you can force their hand if you are a veteran or in one of a few specialized jobs. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=119.071&URL=0100-0199/0119/Sections/0119.071.html http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20St... In other states, usually you can do something if you show you are a victim of 'fraud' or abuse. Fraud might be easy to prove, if someone ever stole your password or something
pyuser583 3y ago
I’m not confident about companies removing data for those outside California. If someone requests to remove data associated with an email or username, they probably will. But if the law says you can demand to have any data associated with your real identity removed - that requires verifying your real identity. Otherwise some troll will demand data be deleted for another person.
- Rumudiez 3y ago
  > Otherwise some troll will demand data be deleted for another person. Would that be a bad thing, though? I don’t personally value what these sites do and can’t imagine a healthy person who does. It could be better for everyone to do away with them
  - brvsft 3y ago
    Yes, it would be a bad thing to have someone randomly delete your data from a site you depend on or enjoy using.
    - Rumudiez 3y ago
      Like whitepages.com? We’re talking about websites where you don’t have an account and they just republish info from public records and/or data brokers, not Facebook
      - Hnrobert42 3y ago
        No. Like Equifax when you are applying for a home loan.
        Rumudiez 3y ago
        Right, because an Equifax data breach has never negatively affected anyone
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
oceanplexian 3y ago
> If you got a DUI, your mugshot and arrest record may be public record and can be displayed. If you got into a custody battle and your court case was public, that can be displayed. The problem is you’re changing the social contract. 25 years ago a DUI wasn’t a life sentence; it wasn’t something someone could find a record for something you did when you were 19 on a website 40 years later. Now, it’s a life sentence. It will impact your ability to get gainful employment for a lifetime. I’m sure people who have a hard-on for criminal justice love this, but I think it’s unfair and detrimental to a healthy society.
- ferfumarma 3y ago
  You raise a great point. But honestly: if you got a DUI in your youth you deserve to answer for it. It might or might not keep you from getting a job 10 years later, but you put people's lives in danger. If it does affect you: too bad. Drunk driving has always been a life sentence for its victims. I would find your argument more compelling with a different example like shoplifting or vandalism: still deeply anti social, but not killing innocent people who are just going about their business.
  - BestGuess 3y ago
    problem is that stance is like a vicious cycle. Can't get worthwhile employment screws everything from your family to your social life, worse if you can't drive anymore too, and all that is right back into why those people would be alcoholics or using other drugs and stuff in the first place. my thing is I'm all for justice but not justice that creates more of the same problem in others or the same people giving them even more reason to give up with, well, it's like branding people on the forehead. Why be surprised when the outcast keeps doing outcast stuff when they're never allowed to be anything but an outcast? it's like if society shot itself in the foot then is outraged demanding to know who shot it in the foot. tryin to say it feels good but just feelin good don't fix nothin
    - deprecative 3y ago
      What the other person seems to want is revenge or some arbitrary punitive action against someone, perhaps decades, after they've already been through the legal system and answered for their actions.
water-your-self 3y ago
>And honestly the people who go through these removal processes are less than 1% of the stored data, so its mostly just a cost of doing business. Sounds like a gap in the market
labster 3y ago
Voter data is already protected by California law; it’s already a crime to disseminate voter registration information for non-political purposes. Please stop with this FUD that is just another voter suppression tactic.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > that is just another voter suppression tactic It's really, really not.
- ghaff 3y ago
  California seems to be stricter than many states but it's not just political purposes (which I'm not sure how that is "better" anyway): In California: Candidates, parties, ballot measure committees, and to any person for election, scholarly, journalistic, or political purposes, or for governmental purposes, as determined by the Secretary of State. All voter information is confidential except for those listed above that may request lists. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-use-of-voter-registration-lists https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-u...
- astura 3y ago
  So you can disseminate voter registration information for political purposes?
Beldin 3y ago
> So if you voted, your address and name is public record As someone not from the USA: what the actual F?! edit labster's sibling comment points out that there are actually laws on how public voter data is. So it is not nearly as dire as the quoted sentence made it seem.
- hef19898 3y ago
  It seems voting in the US is a lot less secret and anonymous then elsewhere. All people do in Germany is scratching your name off of the voter list at your polling station to avoid someone else voting again in your name. The list of names so is not public or anything special, it is just a list names and adresses pulled from the respective resident list maintained by your cities / towns / communities authorities anyway.
- strken 3y ago
  I think it's fairly common to make the electoral roll available in some form or other. In Australia, for example, you can walk into the National Library of Australia and read federal electoral rolls dating back to 1903. The USA goes unusually far with this, but it's a matter of degree and it doesn't surprise me.
- ghaff 3y ago
  There are laws--which vary by state--on how and by whom and for what purpose voter registration data can be requested. But, as a general statement, it's not wrong to say that the name and address of registered voters are often a matter of public record though not their vote of course. It's certainly not correct to say that, in general, no one besides the government can access them. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-use-of-voter-registration-lists https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-u...
BLanen 3y ago
> If you got into a DUI, how does the government get to tell random website X that they are not allowed to say that you got into a DUI, especially when the information was public record. Like every other countries in the world have? > how does the government get to tell random website X that they are not allowed to say that you got into a DUI By saying you can't publish the information and suing if people do? It's not perfect but its very easy for governments to not make it show up in google so employers won't know, like it's a right in almost every developed country. Americans seem unable to imagine anything else than what is.
- ds 3y ago
  We have a very strong freedom of speech in this country, to the point its kinda insane. (See the citizens united ruling for instance) So, yes. We cant imagine it because basically the government has extremely, extremely limited ability to control the speech of corporations or people- Essentially limited to yelling 'fire' in a crowded theatre. Aside from that, People and corporations are able to say whatever they want. They can still be held liable for defamation, breaking contracts, etc.. but you cant legislate the right away for people to say things.

by ds 3y ago

newman314 3y ago

If you know the magic incantation to remove data from BlockShopper, I'm quite sure lots of folks would be interested in knowing how to do so.

therockspush 3y ago
Used to be, in the good old days, getting yourself off lexisnexis did a good chunk of the heavy lifting out of these data pits. For anyone who doesn't know what BlockShopper does, what does it do?
- newman314 3y ago
  See https://blog.incogni.com/blockshopper-opt-out/ https://blog.incogni.com/blockshopper-opt-out/ It is nigh impossible to remove data from them.
ds 3y ago
It will vary state by state. In florida you can force their hand if you are a veteran or in one of a few specialized jobs. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=119.071&URL=0100-0199/0119/Sections/0119.071.html http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20St... In other states, usually you can do something if you show you are a victim of 'fraud' or abuse. Fraud might be easy to prove, if someone ever stole your password or something

pyuser583 3y ago

I’m not confident about companies removing data for those outside California. If someone requests to remove data associated with an email or username, they probably will. But if the law says you can demand to have any data associated with your real identity removed - that requires verifying your real identity. Otherwise some troll will demand data be deleted for another person.

Rumudiez 3y ago
> Otherwise some troll will demand data be deleted for another person. Would that be a bad thing, though? I don’t personally value what these sites do and can’t imagine a healthy person who does. It could be better for everyone to do away with them
- brvsft 3y ago
  Yes, it would be a bad thing to have someone randomly delete your data from a site you depend on or enjoy using.
  - Rumudiez 3y ago
    Like whitepages.com? We’re talking about websites where you don’t have an account and they just republish info from public records and/or data brokers, not Facebook
    - Hnrobert42 3y ago
      No. Like Equifax when you are applying for a home loan.
      - Rumudiez 3y ago
        Right, because an Equifax data breach has never negatively affected anyone
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

oceanplexian 3y ago

> If you got a DUI, your mugshot and arrest record may be public record and can be displayed. If you got into a custody battle and your court case was public, that can be displayed. The problem is you’re changing the social contract. 25 years ago a DUI wasn’t a life sentence; it wasn’t something someone could find a record for something you did when you were 19 on a website 40 years later. Now, it’s a life sentence. It will impact your ability to get gainful employment for a lifetime. I’m sure people who have a hard-on for criminal justice love this, but I think it’s unfair and detrimental to a healthy society.

ferfumarma 3y ago
You raise a great point. But honestly: if you got a DUI in your youth you deserve to answer for it. It might or might not keep you from getting a job 10 years later, but you put people's lives in danger. If it does affect you: too bad. Drunk driving has always been a life sentence for its victims. I would find your argument more compelling with a different example like shoplifting or vandalism: still deeply anti social, but not killing innocent people who are just going about their business.
- BestGuess 3y ago
  problem is that stance is like a vicious cycle. Can't get worthwhile employment screws everything from your family to your social life, worse if you can't drive anymore too, and all that is right back into why those people would be alcoholics or using other drugs and stuff in the first place. my thing is I'm all for justice but not justice that creates more of the same problem in others or the same people giving them even more reason to give up with, well, it's like branding people on the forehead. Why be surprised when the outcast keeps doing outcast stuff when they're never allowed to be anything but an outcast? it's like if society shot itself in the foot then is outraged demanding to know who shot it in the foot. tryin to say it feels good but just feelin good don't fix nothin
  - deprecative 3y ago
    What the other person seems to want is revenge or some arbitrary punitive action against someone, perhaps decades, after they've already been through the legal system and answered for their actions.

water-your-self 3y ago

>And honestly the people who go through these removal processes are less than 1% of the stored data, so its mostly just a cost of doing business. Sounds like a gap in the market

labster 3y ago

Voter data is already protected by California law; it’s already a crime to disseminate voter registration information for non-political purposes. Please stop with this FUD that is just another voter suppression tactic.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> that is just another voter suppression tactic It's really, really not.
ghaff 3y ago
California seems to be stricter than many states but it's not just political purposes (which I'm not sure how that is "better" anyway): In California: Candidates, parties, ballot measure committees, and to any person for election, scholarly, journalistic, or political purposes, or for governmental purposes, as determined by the Secretary of State. All voter information is confidential except for those listed above that may request lists. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-use-of-voter-registration-lists https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-u...
astura 3y ago
So you can disseminate voter registration information for political purposes?

Beldin 3y ago

> So if you voted, your address and name is public record As someone not from the USA: what the actual F?! edit labster's sibling comment points out that there are actually laws on how public voter data is. So it is not nearly as dire as the quoted sentence made it seem.

hef19898 3y ago
It seems voting in the US is a lot less secret and anonymous then elsewhere. All people do in Germany is scratching your name off of the voter list at your polling station to avoid someone else voting again in your name. The list of names so is not public or anything special, it is just a list names and adresses pulled from the respective resident list maintained by your cities / towns / communities authorities anyway.
strken 3y ago
I think it's fairly common to make the electoral roll available in some form or other. In Australia, for example, you can walk into the National Library of Australia and read federal electoral rolls dating back to 1903. The USA goes unusually far with this, but it's a matter of degree and it doesn't surprise me.
ghaff 3y ago
There are laws--which vary by state--on how and by whom and for what purpose voter registration data can be requested. But, as a general statement, it's not wrong to say that the name and address of registered voters are often a matter of public record though not their vote of course. It's certainly not correct to say that, in general, no one besides the government can access them. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-use-of-voter-registration-lists https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/access-to-and-u...

BLanen 3y ago

> If you got into a DUI, how does the government get to tell random website X that they are not allowed to say that you got into a DUI, especially when the information was public record. Like every other countries in the world have? > how does the government get to tell random website X that they are not allowed to say that you got into a DUI By saying you can't publish the information and suing if people do? It's not perfect but its very easy for governments to not make it show up in google so employers won't know, like it's a right in almost every developed country. Americans seem unable to imagine anything else than what is.

ds 3y ago
We have a very strong freedom of speech in this country, to the point its kinda insane. (See the citizens united ruling for instance) So, yes. We cant imagine it because basically the government has extremely, extremely limited ability to control the speech of corporations or people- Essentially limited to yelling 'fire' in a crowded theatre. Aside from that, People and corporations are able to say whatever they want. They can still be held liable for defamation, breaking contracts, etc.. but you cant legislate the right away for people to say things.