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Since this will soon become heated and full of misinformation, here are some details- 1. PM Trudeau called emergency session over "credible" allegations but no

by n_t 3y ago

Since this will soon become heated and full of misinformation, here are some details- 1. PM Trudeau called emergency session over "credible" allegations but no actual evidence. The leader of opposition has also called out lack of evidence. 2. Canada expelled a key Indian diplomat but not nothing more - basically diplomatese - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/18/americas/canada-hardeep-singh-nijjar-india-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/18/americas/canada-hardeep-s... 3. India issued statement calling allegations as baseless and irresponsible - https://bit.ly/3EHtuwe https://bit.ly/3EHtuwe 4. India too immediately booted out key Canadian diplomat. Diplomat was so angry he almost slammed car door on a journalist (https://x.com/ANI/status/1703997495318352108?s=20 https://x.com/ANI/status/1703997495318352108?s=20) 5. PM Trudeau seems to realize he has worsened relations with no credible evidence - https://www.reuters.com/world/canada-pm-not-trying-provoke-india-want-answers-over-murder-2023-09-19/ https://www.reuters.com/world/canada-pm-not-trying-provoke-i... As for background, India considers two countries as those which harbors terrorists active against India - Pakistan and Canada. Canada has harbored "Khalistani" terrorists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182) for long. Recently these "khalistani" (mind you, not Sikhs) have started threatening Indian diplomats (https://x.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1676496624519122950?s=20 https://x.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1676496624519122950?s=20) and attacked Indian properties and temples in Canada/UK. India recently started taking harder stance on push back on both Canada and UK for safety of it's nationals.

Sanzig 3y ago
> The leader of opposition has also called out lack of evidence. That is not what he said at all: https://nitter.net/PierrePoilievre/status/1703893915328249923#m https://nitter.net/PierrePoilievre/status/170389391532824992...
- papercrane 3y ago
  He's since changed his position and is saying Trudeau should release more information publicly. For context Poilievre has refused to get security clearance, so it's unlikely he's seen the whatever evidence CSIS has.+ * https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/poilievre-trudeau-hardeep-singh-nijjar https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/poilievre-trudeau-har... + there's a lot that's been written about his refusal. The short of it is that his position is that part of the process is he needs to promise not to reveal anything he sees and he has said that could interfere with his work as leader of the opposition.
mistrial9 3y ago
> "khalistani" (mind you, not Sikhs) thank you .. also I have seen ill-informed US people accosting young Sikhs with accusations and harassment on the street in daylight .. Sikhs identified by their formal dress
- shkkmo 3y ago
  While I understand that "Khalistani" have significant doctrinal differences from "traditional Sikhs", it seems like claim the Khalistani are not Sikhs is like claiming that Mormons aren't Christians. It is a prejudice based exclusion of a group in contradiction of the groups own identity. I think explaining the differences between groups is totally worth wile, but denying the label seem like prejudice to me. I rather doubt that Sikhs have been accosted in the US based on being confused with Khalistanis, as few americans have ever heard of Khalistanis. The attacks I heard about all had to do with ignorant Americans not knowing the difference between Sikhs and Muslims.
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    > claim the Khalistani are not Sikhs you misunderstand - I did not say that.
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    > like claiming that Mormons aren't Christians Do you agree the fundamental difference with Abrahamic religions is their choice of holy books and introduction of a holy prophet? The Jews have the Torah. The Christians had Jesus and appended the New Testament to the Torah, hence new religion, Christianity. The Muslims had Muhammad and appended the Quran to the Torah, hence new religion, Islam. The Mormons had Joseph Smith and appended the Book of Mormon to the Bible. I struggle to see how that doesn't make them a different religion just like the rest, worthy of a different name.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      This is the evergreen debate about what makes one a "Christian." Is it simply one who worships Jesus Christ? Is it self-labeling as Christian? Is it adherence to some arbitrary specification that mandates a "Christian" must accept specific extra-biblical doctrines? Depending on how you define Christian, it either includes or excludes Mormons. No discussion about "Are Mormons Christian?" is productive without first agreeing on a definition.
motohagiography 3y ago
[flagged]
- gruez 3y ago
  >the PM's governing party has been facilitating mass migration of Sikhs from India at a massive scale on every concievable visa exception Source?
  - motohagiography 3y ago
    Government workers, and seeing the line ups in towns around Ontario, and the "student" visa, among others. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-considering-foreign-student-visa-cap-address-housing-shortage-2023-08-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-considering-fo... High effort comment tho.
    - gruez 3y ago
      So your evidence for that claim is random people's anecdotes about seeing too many Sikhs around?
      - motohagiography 3y ago
        I'm surely a giant racist. Nobody falls for that stuff anymore. If you want to understand why our politicians are acting a given way, you look at their key coalitions. In this case, there is a direct cause between the PM defecting from a close relationship with India's PM Modi, and who he needs to show alignment to in response to a political crisis affecting that community.
shkkmo 3y ago
I'm confused by several of your assertions. You say Canada as "harbored" terrorists, but then link to an attack by Babbar Khalsa, which is designated as a terrorist by Canada. Do you have any basis for this assertion? Also, I see calling credible allegations "baseless and irresponsible" doesn't inspire confidence. It's pretty clear how bad the assassination looks for India and pretending otherwise instead of promising to assist with investigations just make India look more guilty.
timeon 3y ago
So first you present how this accusation is baseless. But why did you added how this guy was bad and dangerous? Even when he was - it is unnecessary to your original argument and looks bit suspicious.

by n_t 3y ago

Sanzig 3y ago

> The leader of opposition has also called out lack of evidence. That is not what he said at all: https://nitter.net/PierrePoilievre/status/1703893915328249923#m https://nitter.net/PierrePoilievre/status/170389391532824992...

papercrane 3y ago
He's since changed his position and is saying Trudeau should release more information publicly. For context Poilievre has refused to get security clearance, so it's unlikely he's seen the whatever evidence CSIS has.+ * https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/poilievre-trudeau-hardeep-singh-nijjar https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/poilievre-trudeau-har... + there's a lot that's been written about his refusal. The short of it is that his position is that part of the process is he needs to promise not to reveal anything he sees and he has said that could interfere with his work as leader of the opposition.

mistrial9 3y ago

> "khalistani" (mind you, not Sikhs) thank you .. also I have seen ill-informed US people accosting young Sikhs with accusations and harassment on the street in daylight .. Sikhs identified by their formal dress

shkkmo 3y ago
While I understand that "Khalistani" have significant doctrinal differences from "traditional Sikhs", it seems like claim the Khalistani are not Sikhs is like claiming that Mormons aren't Christians. It is a prejudice based exclusion of a group in contradiction of the groups own identity. I think explaining the differences between groups is totally worth wile, but denying the label seem like prejudice to me. I rather doubt that Sikhs have been accosted in the US based on being confused with Khalistanis, as few americans have ever heard of Khalistanis. The attacks I heard about all had to do with ignorant Americans not knowing the difference between Sikhs and Muslims.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  > claim the Khalistani are not Sikhs you misunderstand - I did not say that.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  > like claiming that Mormons aren't Christians Do you agree the fundamental difference with Abrahamic religions is their choice of holy books and introduction of a holy prophet? The Jews have the Torah. The Christians had Jesus and appended the New Testament to the Torah, hence new religion, Christianity. The Muslims had Muhammad and appended the Quran to the Torah, hence new religion, Islam. The Mormons had Joseph Smith and appended the Book of Mormon to the Bible. I struggle to see how that doesn't make them a different religion just like the rest, worthy of a different name.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    This is the evergreen debate about what makes one a "Christian." Is it simply one who worships Jesus Christ? Is it self-labeling as Christian? Is it adherence to some arbitrary specification that mandates a "Christian" must accept specific extra-biblical doctrines? Depending on how you define Christian, it either includes or excludes Mormons. No discussion about "Are Mormons Christian?" is productive without first agreeing on a definition.

motohagiography 3y ago

[flagged]

gruez 3y ago
>the PM's governing party has been facilitating mass migration of Sikhs from India at a massive scale on every concievable visa exception Source?
- motohagiography 3y ago
  Government workers, and seeing the line ups in towns around Ontario, and the "student" visa, among others. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-considering-foreign-student-visa-cap-address-housing-shortage-2023-08-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-considering-fo... High effort comment tho.
  - gruez 3y ago
    So your evidence for that claim is random people's anecdotes about seeing too many Sikhs around?
    - motohagiography 3y ago
      I'm surely a giant racist. Nobody falls for that stuff anymore. If you want to understand why our politicians are acting a given way, you look at their key coalitions. In this case, there is a direct cause between the PM defecting from a close relationship with India's PM Modi, and who he needs to show alignment to in response to a political crisis affecting that community.

shkkmo 3y ago

I'm confused by several of your assertions. You say Canada as "harbored" terrorists, but then link to an attack by Babbar Khalsa, which is designated as a terrorist by Canada. Do you have any basis for this assertion? Also, I see calling credible allegations "baseless and irresponsible" doesn't inspire confidence. It's pretty clear how bad the assassination looks for India and pretending otherwise instead of promising to assist with investigations just make India look more guilty.

timeon 3y ago

So first you present how this accusation is baseless. But why did you added how this guy was bad and dangerous? Even when he was - it is unnecessary to your original argument and looks bit suspicious.