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2023 Paid VPN Relationship and Corporate VPN Ownership Map
- askura 3y agoAn update to the 2022 VPN affiliate relationship map. A handy reference for who is owned by who - including their status or whether they're actually part of a bigger corporation. The reference article for the map itself with key updates & findings: https://blog.windscribe.com/the-vpn-relationship-map-2023/ https://blog.windscribe.com/the-vpn-relationship-map-2023/
- j3th9n 3y agoCan you do the same for politicians?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- askura 3y agoAlways been a fan of the simple suggestion we just Nascar up these folks: https://honestgil.com/nascar https://honestgil.com/nascar
- BXlnt2EachOther 3y agosort of; proper political donations can be looked up https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress
- coldtea 3y agoThose are just the over the table tip of the iceberg ones...
- wing-_-nuts 3y agoI wish the donors of superpacs had to be disclosed.
- tracker1 3y agoConsidering most spending is through special interest groups on behalf or in favor or against certain candidates, the real and large funding is really hard to track. Especially when contributions will often go from a larger funding group to a smaller action committee, with obfuscated details... it's sickening and gross. I'd really like to see all political funding only by individuals or organizations with open books, only able to receive funding from individuals or organizations with open books. If a corporate board/ceo wants contributions to be made, they can do it as individuals. It's definitely time for a constitutional amendment to eliminate corporate personhood.
- askura 3y agohttps://twitter.com/windscribecom/status/1667177373534494729 https://twitter.com/windscribecom/status/1667177373534494729 Here's one bang on subject for example. The company that won the bid to formalise digital IDs donating directly to the party members responsible for choosing in favour of them. 6 states are trying to link porn sites to a digital driving licence. So porn habits and identity are linked for example.
- say_it_as_it_is 3y agoall paths lead to Kevin Bacon
- tamimio 3y agoThat is a project I would definitely pay to support it!
- _lvbh 3y agoUsed to be a customer of ExpressVPN but after the acquisition, it no longer worked properly in China. Mullvad somehow survives despite their server IP ranges being public
- contact9879 3y agoI'm surprised Mullvad works in China. Do you have to use obfuscation software (shadowsocks, etc)? The GFW blocks WireGuard, right?
- askura 3y agoI used to find it worked here and there for me (Shanghai Telecom, 4/5G was OK. Home didn't work). Shadowsocks worked well for me but then got janky - ended up using a local VPN for gaming and Windscribe for general browsing. For 3 sweet months I could run a AWS node and relay through that with awesome speeds but then that broke too. Ended up just with a residential IP and that solved everything til I left. There is of course times like when the Two Sessions are in order and nothing worked.
- KomoD 3y ago> Windscribe for general browsing. Do you work for / are affiliated with Windscribe?
- askura 3y agoYeah I made the original map and the updated version, updating the suggestions from the thread now so if you have any by all means let me know and I'll add them. I made this while in China: https://www.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/pp39xi/the_2021_comprehensive_guide_to_vpns_that/ https://www.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/pp39xi/the_2021_c... Was based there 4 years so got very familiar with the VPN scene over there so if you have any questions let me know! I found for gaming for example you can't beat local VPNs for latency. No western operation can compete with that.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
- szundi 3y agoHow does my grandma do her own research under these circumstances?
- joemazerino 3y agoAsks her good sonny boy for help
- askura 3y agoI like the idea that their grandmother has a zero-trust relationship with them regarding tech lol
- candiddevmike 3y agoAnyone want to tl;dr what the best one is? The map doesn't load for me and the full map isn't the greatest thing to navigate... Would much prefer just text.
- askura 3y agoIt depends on what you're doing but the ones in green to the top right are independents but IVACY recently have suffered an issue. If you have issues with the corporate owners you can avoid them by seeing who the parent is and who they own. "SentinelLabs researchers have discovered that a Chinese APT group known as Bronze Starlight has been signing off malware with a valid certificate. This certificate is used by Ivacy VPN, and the hackers' target is the gambling industry in Southeast Asia." Honestly, what's your use case?
- xnx 3y agoIf I wasn't using https://one.google.com/about/vpn https://one.google.com/about/vpn I'd probably set up my own VPN box on AWS.
- giobox 3y ago> I'd probably set up my own VPN box on AWS. I did this for years (OpenVPN then Wireguard, run from a simple Docker container), but it's increasingly a losing battle - so many services, especially in the streaming video space, just blacklist all requests from IP ranges associated with VPS providers such as AWS. Depends on your usecases, but accessing streaming services in another country is a big one for a lot of people. I've since given up self hosting a VPN for accessing region blocked video content. If its just to secure access when using untrusted connections while traveling, self hosting a VPN such as Wireguard at home is a nice option as you get the benefit of your own domestic IP, as well secure access to your own LAN. Good use for a Raspberry Pi or similar, total lifetime spend will likely be less than 6-8 months of a paid VPN subscription.
- KomoD 3y agoAWS is always the first provider I block, then DigitalOcean, then Linode
- minimalist 3y agoThis is good! I will use this as a reference to share with friends and colleagues who ask me about XYZ VPN. I think something that is missing in the network of connections is Mozilla VPN. From what I understand, they are just a re-brand of Mullvad. There are other providers not listed, but finding a good VPN provider is kind of like finding a good watering hole--you don't want to spread the word too widely, else bad-actors come and pollute it. I didn't realize how many media companies own VPN companies.
- rx_tx 3y agoI don't know if it was edited since your comment, but Mozilla VPN is in there (with an arrow pointing to Mullvad)
- askura 3y agoI'm the author of the map and I'll get those updates on there now, the Mozilla node was actually hidden (as I need to update the corp info) and there's other corrections I'm making now. If you have any other suggestions I'm more than happy to look into them and start getting them updated. This has been a passion project of my own for the past few years so I'm really grateful for any other feedback.
- unstatusthequo 3y agoAlso, https://brave.com/brave-and-guardian/ https://brave.com/brave-and-guardian/
- askura 3y agoCheers mate! Will see to them too :D
- Fluorescence 3y agoI find the map software a usability nightmare and had to give up on it. Cute but crap. I'd much prefer the data in a table that I can just... read.
- 3y ago
- infogulch 3y agoVery interesting! I'm curious why there is there is a typical relationship between vpn companies and media companies, by common subsidiary ownership or otherwise. I don't really follow the logic here, is it just because the media company can promote their partnered vpn? Or is there some other reason?
- askura 3y agoAffiliate campaigns! So basically you'll see in review articles for everything a link with a ton of fluff and tracking in it. Say you want a new pair of headphones. You'll probably do something like this. 1. Search Google & look for forum/reddit threads talking about specific brands. 2. Look for those brands for further reviews, feedback, and price comparisons. 3. You will come across a review that has links to the "best price". 4. By clicking that link if you purchase that product then, or within 15-30 days (depends on the affiliate agreement) the affiliate will earn commission. That's why big corps work with media companies. They make hundreds of thousands per month via affiliate commissions alone. This induces a large amount of biases as media sites always recommend their affiliates over non-affiliates.
- geerlingguy 3y agoThis is a major reason why I don't do affiliate links outside of Amazon for anything I mention (I add tracking links sometimes if a company sponsors a video and requests I use one of their tracked URLs, but I won't do affiliate links for any entity I work with). It creates perverse incentives, especially if one of the services generates a lot of revenue for a channel/publication. If there's a relationship with a vendor—especially in articles that review and compare different services—it should be obvious what that relationship is. Online tech publications and review websites are some of the worst offenders these days.
- hrunt 3y agoIt is /exactly/ because the media company can promote its partnered VPN. A huge driver of user signups in the commodity personal VPN space is affiliate referrals, and usually those affiliate sites are "review" or "how-to" sites. While the affiliate relationship is usually stated, it implies that the site makes money off the referral. In a lot of cases, the site actually makes its money by preferred placement of the VPN provider on their site. A VPN company often even writes or edits the content for the site. If you're a VPN company, it's actually cheaper for you to own the sites and populate them with your own product than it is to pay a site for placement, especially if you own four or five VPN brands. Heck, sometimes, they don't even acquire sites. They just start them and spend money to get them to rank well. I don't trust review sites in general (even if they don't contain paid recommendations, they still rank by which affiliate will net them more money), but I /really/ don't trust sites that cover or rank VPN providers. Personal VPNs as they are pitched to consumers are just shy of snake-oil, and almost all the content written that touts them is revenue driven. Background: I previously helped start and worked for a VPN provider.
- ecmascript 3y agoI'm getting a cert error, anyone else?
- yegor 3y agoYour network probably intercepts TLS, are you on a work/school network?
- ecmascript 3y agoNo I'm at home, behind a pi-hole tho, but that shouldn't mess the cert up?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- beauHD 3y ago> However, the worst case situation is that they lie about not tracking users and then they get hit with a LEO request they bow down to. That's within reason though. A VPN is another ISP afterall, so they have to 'bow down' to law enforcement requests. What LEAs can get depends on how zero knowledge the VPN setup is. OVPN[0] for example has been 'court tested' and Mullvad had nothing to give to authorities[1] since they don't collect it in the first place (apart from payment metadata). I'm not affiliated with OVPN or Mullvad, just a happy paying customer. [0] https://www.ovpn.com/en/blog/ovpn-wins-court-order https://www.ovpn.com/en/blog/ovpn-wins-court-order [1] https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/4/20/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-search-warrant-customer-data-not-compromised/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/4/20/mullvad-vpn-was-subjec...
- yegor 3y agoA VPN is not an ISP, at least as Canadian law (currently) is concerned. ISPs are required to store IP assignment logs, VPNs are not. Additionally, VPNs (in Canada) cannot be compelled to log users. Source: Our law firm (I'm from Windscribe), and first hand experience with RCMP.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago[flagged]
- hotstickyballs 3y ago[flagged]
- trclst 3y ago"OVPN acquired by Pango, parent company of Hotspot Shield: what does it mean for users?" https://alternativeto.net/news/2023/5/ovpn-acquired-by-pango-parent-company-of-hotspot-shield-what-does-it-mean-for-users-/ https://alternativeto.net/news/2023/5/ovpn-acquired-by-pango... Article updated 2023 https://blog.windscribe.com/the-vpn-relationship-map-2023/ https://blog.windscribe.com/the-vpn-relationship-map-2023/
- 3y ago
- mantra2 3y agoHappy to see my VPN of choice, IVPN, out there with no affiliations coming out of it.
- askura 3y agoIVPN are studs of the industry, no doubt. Very serious folk working hard on sticking to their privacy principles - rare today for sure!
- Given_47 3y agoThat’s good to hear as a mullvad user. They’re amazing, but often the only player recommended in the space.
- askura 3y agoMullvad are absolutely the GOAT for most people so that's fair. If you need port forwarding or other fringe uses then not so much but you can't go wrong with how well they stick by their guns and by who they choose to associate with. The top right feature the last remaining indies who for better or worse are the last remaining folks holding onto any kind of standards. Corporate VPNs use tons of marketing tracking, affiliate marketing, and skewer the discussion to suit their profits over all else. Kape for example have been on a buying spree over the past few years so now all those VPNs tout whatever line is set from above.
- mantra2 3y agoThat's a big reason why I went with them. I did a ton of research to see where I felt most comfortable but ultimately went with IVPN because of how transparent they seemed about who they were and what they could/couldn't do. Mullvad was my second choice but at 3 years at a time IVPN was more cost effective. I usually connect via the NY, NJ, and IL gateways and get good speeds. I've got a 500/500 line and pretty consistently get in the 400's each way.
- yieldcrv 3y agoI think at best this can just help some people break through their cult-like fealty to whichever VPN provider their favorite trusted youtuber happened to introduce them to because the VPN concept has limitations. It doesn't matter if the favorite VPN has proof of stonewalling a court case at some point in time, any other point in time it can be undermined and you wouldn't know until its too late.... it relies purely on trust and your use case. but if your use case ever expands to something law enforcement would be interested in, the VPN concept relies on too much trust
- TheCaptain4815 3y agoAren’t VPNs much less useful unless they’re proven no-log VPN? I remember going down the rabbit hole and people online were skeptical unless the company had a proven FBI raid with no logs taken, haha.
- capableweb 3y ago> Aren’t VPNs much less useful unless they’re proven no-log VPN? That's basically saying that every VPN is "much less useful" as there is no 100% way of proving that it's no-log.
- TheCaptain4815 3y agoThere were a few I recall (years ago, can't remember their name) that got raided by the FBI and it showed they had nothing to give the feds.
- capableweb 3y agoCould be that they got raided and are now under gag-order as FBI installed their own equipment. Or, they used to be no-log but now they aren't, on their own accord. We'll never know.
- alaxapta7 3y agoIf no-log is a priority, you need Tor, not a VPN.
- zirgs 3y agoDepending on where you live - the fact that you use Tor can be used against you.
- alaxapta7 3y agoSure, but then VPN might be just as problematic unless it's a one that's not provided by a known VPN company. My point is that VPN is just a way to proxy your traffic to somewhere else and hide the content (but not its existence!) from your ISP. Anything else shouldn't ever be taken for granted.
- cisasteelersfan 3y agoWhy would I even want to use a VPN in the first place?
- dsissitka 3y agoA chance for a better route. When I connect directly to Hetzner's storage boxes I generally get about 10 Mbps. When I go through a local VPN I get about ten times that.
- yegor 3y agoHide your DNS queries and SNI from your network admin mom, as you browse pornhub.com Also, Azerbaijanian Netflix is real hot these days.
- istjohn 3y agoIn no particular order: 1. To pirate content without getting sent threat letters or being sued 2. To prevent your ISP or the wifi access point or anyone else from seeing which domains you are connecting to and selling that data 3. To prevent government surveillance or blocking 4. To bypass corporate or institutional firewall rules 5. To prevent packet sniffers from snooping on public wifi 6. To prevent your parents, spouse, or relatives from seeing your browsing habbits in router logs 7. To access geo-locked content on streaming services
- zirgs 3y ago1. Nobody does gets those in Eastern Europe 2. This is a GDPR violation 3. If you have to hide something from your government then you should probably use something better than a commercial VPN. 4. Corporate internet usage is tied to your corporate account and the use of a non-sanctioned VPN is a massive red flag.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago1. To pirate some content which isn't relevant for 99.9999% of the population yet still protected by Disney law
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
- KomoD 3y agoAnother one that can be thrown in is Namecheap's VPN which is whitelabel "wlvpn" and speedtest vpn == ipvanish mozilla/firefox vpn == mullvad
- qwertox 3y agoWhile the no-logs policies of many of these providers is mentioned in their EULAs, there's never a mention of paid access to NetFlow data, which can be used to link public flows to the IP addresses of users. Is this a thing? I recall hearing about it around two years ago. Something along the lines of "ISPs Give 'Netflow Data' To Third Parties, Who Sell It Without User Awareness Or Consent" [0] or "How Data Brokers Sell Access to the Backbone of the Internet" [1] [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/pbdvp3/isps_give_netflow_data_to_third_parties_who_sell/ https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/pbdvp3/isps_give_n... [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg84yy/data-brokers-netflow-data-team-cymru https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg84yy/data-brokers-netflow-...
- clsec 3y agoI'm surprised that no one has said anything about the fact that this is put out by a VPN company! I also could not find their name on the map. It doesn't mean that it's not there, I just couldn't find them. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The only thing I find a VPN useful for is torrenting w/o your ISP knowing. In my case, I use Surfshark for torrenting so that Comcast can't send me any of those pesky letters.
- alaxapta7 3y ago> w/o your ISP knowing I'd be more concerned about everyone else: https://iknowwhatyoudownload.com https://iknowwhatyoudownload.com
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- clsec 3y agoThanks for pointing that out! It turns out that the latest update to qBittorrent started binding to all available adapters. I just set it to only use my VPN's adapter and all seems to be fine now. Thanks again! edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/qBittorrent/comments/14bzdct/psa_qbittorrent_leaks_your_real_ip_when_using_vpn/?rdt=63358 https://www.reddit.com/r/qBittorrent/comments/14bzdct/psa_qb...
- zirgs 3y agoI don't torrent stuff at all and my IP was there.
- alaxapta7 3y agoSomeone else had the IP assigned, then, or you're behind some sort of NAT with someone else. The ISP very likely holds a record of which device had a particular address assigned at any given time. At where I live, addresses are usually lent for pretty much forever. I have mine for 8 years, unchanged. Even my mobile carrier latches the same address for months even.
- 3y ago
- tamimio 3y agoThere are other good vpns not listed in there, which is good, so they remain that way.
- Ms-J 3y agoDirect link to the full map: https://kumu.io/sobeyharker/vpn-relationships#vpn-company-relationships https://kumu.io/sobeyharker/vpn-relationships#vpn-company-re... Also, does anyone know of a privacy conscious VPN provider that currently supports port forwarding? One of the only provider's I know of right now is ovpn.com and I cannot vouch for their privacy practices.
- unforgivenpasta 3y agoLooks like Njalla's VPN[1] is missing, I'm not sure if they have their own servers but it seems more than likely [1] https://njal.la/vpn/ https://njal.la/vpn/
- the_third_wave 3y agoI just had a look at the map to see what they say about a few well-known VPN providers like Mullvad and Express VPN. In the description for the latter the mapmakers claim that people like Ben Shapiro and Candace Ownens (two conservative commentators, one an orthodox Jew, the other a black woman of Nigerian/Caribbean descent) are "far-right misinformation specialists" which means I have to take the rest of their claims with a sizeable amount of salt as being biased and ideologically tainted. Stupid really since it certainly makes sense to expose the snake-oil salesmen peddling VPNs.