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I've had a great experience with eSIMs these past few days during a trip to Europe (coming from the US). It's so convenient to be able to arrive at a city and u

I've had a great experience with eSIMs these past few days during a trip to Europe (coming from the US). It's so convenient to be able to arrive at a city and use airport wifi to download a mobile data package for a few bucks. The process is slightly clunky but not bad at all.

wkat4242 3y ago
I'm in Europe and I've had very poor experiences with local carriers in getting an eSIM :( Most of them outright refuse unless you are on a mobile contract plan with them (I'm not, I hate contracts so I only use prepay). On prepay they don't want to support it here in Spain for whatever stupid reason even though I've had my prepay number for 10 years. They also levy much more restrictions on the whole ordeal: Usually only locally sold models are allowed. So you can't use a Dutch Samsung phone with a Spanish eSIM. I'm really annoyed with this because the whole idea of eSIM was to make things easier for the customer, not harder and more restrictive. Perhaps the carriers that specialise in temporary data contracts for travelers are ok, but local permanent carriers are crap with this.
- raincom 3y ago
  People use Airalo app to buy eSIMs, wherever they travel to. One can buy eSIM even before you land in foreign lands. I don't have experience with Airalo, but many recommended that app on this site.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Ah ok, but that's only for temporary use, it's not intended for real permanent usage, right? I'll consider it if I ever travel outside of europe though (roaming inside EU was fixed several years ago luckily).
    - yosito 3y ago
      What makes you think it's for temporary use? I've been using it for over a year as my only data plan.
      - kiwijamo 3y ago
        Is the price cheap enough to do that? Last time I looked it was much cheaper to go with a local carrier almost anywhere I looked.
        yosito 3y ago
        Cheap is relative. I pay about $25 for 20GB, which lasts me a month. Yeah, local SIM cards might have cheaper options, but I'm not complaining about $25 a month. I spend more on a single lunch.
      - markdown 3y ago
        The cost. The prices are very high.
        yosito 3y ago
        I don't consider $25 for 20GB to be "very high". Of course, you can find cheaper. But $25 is less than a lunch in most places.
        3np 3y ago
        A lunch is most definitely not close to as high as $25 "in most places" unless you go for upscale fine dining, considering that $25 is above global daily median income.
    - raincom 3y ago
      For instance, Eurolink eSIM card with 180 days validity can be had for 180 euros on Airalo.com. They also have re-chargeable eSIMs, just you need to top up just before it expires.
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        Ah but that is really really expensive :) I can get a local SIM with 50GB data that is available with a 10 euro topup each month. Don't forget the purchasing power in Europe is much lower than in the US (especially southern Europe). For this reason local carriers are a lot cheaper too.
        throwaway67743 3y ago
        If argue that it's the opposite as there is competition and in civilised European countries there is working regulation etc, not like the US where carriers are able to lobby and cheat to maintain their monopolies - case in point I have unlimited everything (Inc 5g, except MMS) in country and 64G in the rest of Europe for about 30 EUR/mo
        GreenVulpine 3y ago
        And you can have the same for a similar price in the States. The US cellular market is quite good. Have a look at Canada if you want to see what a cartel looks like.
        throwaway67743 3y ago
        Last time I was in the US it was pretty bad, I'm not sure comparing to the worst is fair but compared to Europe it's not so great - at the time I had T-Mobile but they differentiated different states etc as they may need roaming domestically - you're just not allowed to do that here
        flangola7 3y ago
        What do you mean by except MMS? That's not even data
    - em500 3y ago
      This might be because most countries nowadays require a photo ID for SIM cards. The Netherlands, UK and US are among the few that don't (yet). https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_Policies_Per_Country#Europe https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_P...
      - flangola7 3y ago
        Photo ID? Then how do you get an anonymous burner phone? Order it online somehow?
        em500 3y ago
        The whole rationale of the laws in these countries is that you shouldn't be allowed to get one.
        flangola7 3y ago
        But why? It's not anyone's business but my own. If a snotty call phone rep insisted on a treating me like a teenager at a bar they would be some talking and not from my mouth.
        3np 3y ago
        In an increasing number of places, you don't (except perhaps by forcing or convincing someone to let you use their identity). Where I'm at right now, receiving SMS or making phone calls require a subscription with photo ID and physical address - prepaids and travel SIMs are data-only these days. The latter ones also require photo ID for service activation.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  > the whole idea of eSIM was to make things easier for the customer, not harder and more restrictive. I remember reading an article in a French newspaper about how carriers were "uncomfortable" with the eSIM because it severed "the last connection" between them and their customers. The latter would basically no longer have a reason to "interact" with the former. I don't quite see how that's a bad thing. The less you have to deal with "those people" (and this works from either side), the better it is, no? In my case, the last time I've "interacted" with my carrier was some 10 years ago when my phone got stolen, and I had to get a new SIM. Other than that, I pay them every month and they make sure my phone works every month. At least with my carrier, it's cheaper to get an eSIM than a physical SIM. I didn't actually get one, since I've had my current SIM for a very long time. They basically charge for the "SIM service", and there's a separate charge for the physical part if you get it in a brick & mortar store, or for shipping if you want it delivered. > Usually only locally sold models are allowed. How can they tell, are there still country-specific models? I know people from the US and from Russia coming to France, popping a local SIM in and being in business. These were all iPhones, though.
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    > I don't quite see how that's a bad thing But how is the carrier going to "engage" you? How are all the people involved in sales and marketing there going to justify their job? A carrier that operates fully automatically with minimal customer interaction could indeed be more profitable, but it's politically impossible for any established company to transition to such a model since it would obviate the need for many positions there - those same positions rely on the current status-quo (no matter how mediocre) and will fight any attempts at improving efficiency. (this is not limited to carriers, any large legacy company has the same issues - lots of positions are just there to create work to sustain other, equally-useless positions, while the new output of the system being zero or even negative).
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > The less you have to deal with "those people" (and this works from either side), the better it is, no? The less contact, the less opportunity to upsell you to something that provides them recurring revenue. It's all about rent seeking ("passive income") these days, everywhere.
- ranma42 3y ago
  Vodafone in Germany was happy to give me an eSIM for a prepaid plan, not even a store visit required (but it did require taking a photo of my ID and a identity verification video call where someone checks your video against the ID). I guess with AI-based video manipulation, a store visit may be required in the future...
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    > a store visit may be required in the future... Or not, considering how store employees are treated and paid. It's probably much cheaper to bribe some low-level clerk than build & deploy a convincing AI spoofing solution.
someotherperson 3y ago
They’re very useful. Although it’s sometimes hard to get eSIMs direct from carriers internationally since many only grant them on post-paid contracts. SIM cards also have their place, however, which is why Apple’s take on it is weird. When traveling, especially with so much MFA (for better or worse) is linked to a phone number, it makes having your phone damaged a major issue. You can’t simply pop out the SIM and move it across to a new phone. Even if you manage to get a new eSIM, most of the time you can’t activate it until you’re back in your origin country. This as an issue (carrier or otherwise) needs to be addressed with some urgency.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > They’re very useful. Although it’s sometimes hard to get eSIMs direct from carriers internationally since many only grant them on post-paid contracts. Exactly, this is a huge problem for me because I don't do post-paid (after one bill with unintended overage charges, I much prefer them just cutting me off until I pay again). The sim swapping being controlled by the provider (every time you need a new QR and they need to 'grant' it to you) is more restrictive too, and they usually enforce only models they sell directly. It's a real loss of flexibility that we used to have with hardware SIMs.
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  This can easily be resolved by not buying an Apple phone and buying a phone that still retains a physical SIM slot. Stop giving companies money for making stupid decisions. It only emboldens them further.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    The Samsung Z Flip 5 has this too :( Only 1 real SIM and the rest only eSIM. However it is a bit more understandable because the flip has very limited space due to the hinge components.
    - housemusicfan 3y ago
      The USA versions of Apple's flagship phones (iPhone 14 and up) have ZERO physical SIM slots. They are dual eSIM only. Models sold elsewhere in the world retain a single physical SIM slot. Yes you read that correctly. They made multiple versions and the American one is deliberately crippled. I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing. It defies logic why they would do this, beyond some grand social experiment they can execute with little risk due to cult-like monopoly control of the market. I refuse to believe that they sold more than 12 of these SIM-less phones.

wkat4242 3y ago

I'm in Europe and I've had very poor experiences with local carriers in getting an eSIM :( Most of them outright refuse unless you are on a mobile contract plan with them (I'm not, I hate contracts so I only use prepay). On prepay they don't want to support it here in Spain for whatever stupid reason even though I've had my prepay number for 10 years. They also levy much more restrictions on the whole ordeal: Usually only locally sold models are allowed. So you can't use a Dutch Samsung phone with a Spanish eSIM. I'm really annoyed with this because the whole idea of eSIM was to make things easier for the customer, not harder and more restrictive. Perhaps the carriers that specialise in temporary data contracts for travelers are ok, but local permanent carriers are crap with this.

raincom 3y ago
People use Airalo app to buy eSIMs, wherever they travel to. One can buy eSIM even before you land in foreign lands. I don't have experience with Airalo, but many recommended that app on this site.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Ah ok, but that's only for temporary use, it's not intended for real permanent usage, right? I'll consider it if I ever travel outside of europe though (roaming inside EU was fixed several years ago luckily).
  - yosito 3y ago
    What makes you think it's for temporary use? I've been using it for over a year as my only data plan.
    - kiwijamo 3y ago
      Is the price cheap enough to do that? Last time I looked it was much cheaper to go with a local carrier almost anywhere I looked.
      - yosito 3y ago
        Cheap is relative. I pay about $25 for 20GB, which lasts me a month. Yeah, local SIM cards might have cheaper options, but I'm not complaining about $25 a month. I spend more on a single lunch.
    - markdown 3y ago
      The cost. The prices are very high.
      - yosito 3y ago
        I don't consider $25 for 20GB to be "very high". Of course, you can find cheaper. But $25 is less than a lunch in most places.
        3np 3y ago
        A lunch is most definitely not close to as high as $25 "in most places" unless you go for upscale fine dining, considering that $25 is above global daily median income.
  - raincom 3y ago
    For instance, Eurolink eSIM card with 180 days validity can be had for 180 euros on Airalo.com. They also have re-chargeable eSIMs, just you need to top up just before it expires.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Ah but that is really really expensive :) I can get a local SIM with 50GB data that is available with a 10 euro topup each month. Don't forget the purchasing power in Europe is much lower than in the US (especially southern Europe). For this reason local carriers are a lot cheaper too.
      - throwaway67743 3y ago
        If argue that it's the opposite as there is competition and in civilised European countries there is working regulation etc, not like the US where carriers are able to lobby and cheat to maintain their monopolies - case in point I have unlimited everything (Inc 5g, except MMS) in country and 64G in the rest of Europe for about 30 EUR/mo
        GreenVulpine 3y ago
        And you can have the same for a similar price in the States. The US cellular market is quite good. Have a look at Canada if you want to see what a cartel looks like.
        throwaway67743 3y ago
        Last time I was in the US it was pretty bad, I'm not sure comparing to the worst is fair but compared to Europe it's not so great - at the time I had T-Mobile but they differentiated different states etc as they may need roaming domestically - you're just not allowed to do that here
        flangola7 3y ago
        What do you mean by except MMS? That's not even data
  - em500 3y ago
    This might be because most countries nowadays require a photo ID for SIM cards. The Netherlands, UK and US are among the few that don't (yet). https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_Policies_Per_Country#Europe https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_P...
    - flangola7 3y ago
      Photo ID? Then how do you get an anonymous burner phone? Order it online somehow?
      - em500 3y ago
        The whole rationale of the laws in these countries is that you shouldn't be allowed to get one.
        flangola7 3y ago
        But why? It's not anyone's business but my own. If a snotty call phone rep insisted on a treating me like a teenager at a bar they would be some talking and not from my mouth.
      - 3np 3y ago
        In an increasing number of places, you don't (except perhaps by forcing or convincing someone to let you use their identity). Where I'm at right now, receiving SMS or making phone calls require a subscription with photo ID and physical address - prepaids and travel SIMs are data-only these days. The latter ones also require photo ID for service activation.
vladvasiliu 3y ago
> the whole idea of eSIM was to make things easier for the customer, not harder and more restrictive. I remember reading an article in a French newspaper about how carriers were "uncomfortable" with the eSIM because it severed "the last connection" between them and their customers. The latter would basically no longer have a reason to "interact" with the former. I don't quite see how that's a bad thing. The less you have to deal with "those people" (and this works from either side), the better it is, no? In my case, the last time I've "interacted" with my carrier was some 10 years ago when my phone got stolen, and I had to get a new SIM. Other than that, I pay them every month and they make sure my phone works every month. At least with my carrier, it's cheaper to get an eSIM than a physical SIM. I didn't actually get one, since I've had my current SIM for a very long time. They basically charge for the "SIM service", and there's a separate charge for the physical part if you get it in a brick & mortar store, or for shipping if you want it delivered. > Usually only locally sold models are allowed. How can they tell, are there still country-specific models? I know people from the US and from Russia coming to France, popping a local SIM in and being in business. These were all iPhones, though.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  > I don't quite see how that's a bad thing But how is the carrier going to "engage" you? How are all the people involved in sales and marketing there going to justify their job? A carrier that operates fully automatically with minimal customer interaction could indeed be more profitable, but it's politically impossible for any established company to transition to such a model since it would obviate the need for many positions there - those same positions rely on the current status-quo (no matter how mediocre) and will fight any attempts at improving efficiency. (this is not limited to carriers, any large legacy company has the same issues - lots of positions are just there to create work to sustain other, equally-useless positions, while the new output of the system being zero or even negative).
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > The less you have to deal with "those people" (and this works from either side), the better it is, no? The less contact, the less opportunity to upsell you to something that provides them recurring revenue. It's all about rent seeking ("passive income") these days, everywhere.
ranma42 3y ago
Vodafone in Germany was happy to give me an eSIM for a prepaid plan, not even a store visit required (but it did require taking a photo of my ID and a identity verification video call where someone checks your video against the ID). I guess with AI-based video manipulation, a store visit may be required in the future...
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  > a store visit may be required in the future... Or not, considering how store employees are treated and paid. It's probably much cheaper to bribe some low-level clerk than build & deploy a convincing AI spoofing solution.

someotherperson 3y ago

They’re very useful. Although it’s sometimes hard to get eSIMs direct from carriers internationally since many only grant them on post-paid contracts. SIM cards also have their place, however, which is why Apple’s take on it is weird. When traveling, especially with so much MFA (for better or worse) is linked to a phone number, it makes having your phone damaged a major issue. You can’t simply pop out the SIM and move it across to a new phone. Even if you manage to get a new eSIM, most of the time you can’t activate it until you’re back in your origin country. This as an issue (carrier or otherwise) needs to be addressed with some urgency.

wkat4242 3y ago
> They’re very useful. Although it’s sometimes hard to get eSIMs direct from carriers internationally since many only grant them on post-paid contracts. Exactly, this is a huge problem for me because I don't do post-paid (after one bill with unintended overage charges, I much prefer them just cutting me off until I pay again). The sim swapping being controlled by the provider (every time you need a new QR and they need to 'grant' it to you) is more restrictive too, and they usually enforce only models they sell directly. It's a real loss of flexibility that we used to have with hardware SIMs.
housemusicfan 3y ago
This can easily be resolved by not buying an Apple phone and buying a phone that still retains a physical SIM slot. Stop giving companies money for making stupid decisions. It only emboldens them further.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  The Samsung Z Flip 5 has this too :( Only 1 real SIM and the rest only eSIM. However it is a bit more understandable because the flip has very limited space due to the hinge components.
  - housemusicfan 3y ago
    The USA versions of Apple's flagship phones (iPhone 14 and up) have ZERO physical SIM slots. They are dual eSIM only. Models sold elsewhere in the world retain a single physical SIM slot. Yes you read that correctly. They made multiple versions and the American one is deliberately crippled. I'm certain the space regained by removing the SIM slot in a US-only variant has been repurposed for...absolutely nothing. It defies logic why they would do this, beyond some grand social experiment they can execute with little risk due to cult-like monopoly control of the market. I refuse to believe that they sold more than 12 of these SIM-less phones.