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> The Topics API enables interest-based advertising (IBA) without tracking the sites a user visits. The browser observes and records topics that appear to be of

by Link- 3y ago

> The Topics API enables interest-based advertising (IBA) without tracking the sites a user visits. The browser observes and records topics that appear to be of interest to the user, based on their browsing activity. This information is recorded on the user's device. > For example, the API might suggest the topic "Fiber & Textile Arts" for a user who visits the website knitting.example. Hmm.. That doesn't sound good.

98codes 3y ago
It's like Google is trying to give the government evidence of browser / ad vendor bundling effects
sourthyme 3y ago
Yeah I want to know what my topics are and when they change, and if I can disable or fudge my topics.
- eli 3y ago
  Not sure if it landed yet, but being able to edit/disable individual topics was an announced feature. FWIW most ad networks already let you do this. Here's google's https://myadcenter.google.com/home https://myadcenter.google.com/home
  - davidjade 3y ago
    From the FAQ: Why can't I block sensitive topics entirely? We’ll do our best not to show you ads about the topics you limit. In some cases, you might still see an ad containing images related to the topic you’ve limited. For example, you might see an airline ad featuring someone holding a glass of champagne. This isn’t an alcohol ad, even though the ad shows alcohol. In other cases, you might still see an ad about a topic you’ve limited if you search for info about one of those topics or you watch a video related to those topics. So I can make suggestions to Google for ads but not truly disable topics.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - eli 3y ago
      I mean, the point is about profiling you for ads. If you search "buy a car" and get car ads that isn't really about the personal profile Google built up about you over time.
- hbn 3y ago
  You'd figure it would be a pretty easy thing for a fork to just... not implement? I'll assume they won't be so polite as to allow extension to disable this "feature"
  - madeofpalk 3y ago
    Just as easy for any browser to just not implement third party cookies.
- eis 3y ago
  There is an internal page chrome://topics-internals where you can see the topics but I don't think you can fudge them https://developer.chrome.com/docs/privacy-sandbox/topics/#observed-topics https://developer.chrome.com/docs/privacy-sandbox/topics/#ob...
  - _boffin_ 3y ago
    There will be some sqlite database that you’ll be able to mess around with, just like the history sqlite database.
kgwxd 3y ago
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they announce the "User-Agent" request header will be "Google-Agent" going forward.
sixothree 3y ago
Yeah. That's sounds icky and gross.
marginalia_nu 3y ago
Dunno, seems useful. Build a zero effort dmoz by visiting individual sites with a clean headless browser and then querying the topic API.
WORMS_EAT_WORMS 3y ago
I guess I don't understand how it is different or better from Google's perspective for its users. Is the main benefit you don't know the exact site you visited but the type of site and basically all the contents or "topics" of it? Not looking to flame. Genuinely looking for just the rundown explanation // privacy benefits // etc..
GordonS 3y ago
I actually think something like the Topics API could work - but with some pretty big changes. Firstly, it's a "hell no" from me on my browser recording what I'm doing and insinuating my interests. At the very least, I'd want to be able to disable that. Secondly, I want to be able to see the topics that are chosen. Finally, I want to be able to edit/set these topics myself.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  If you can edit/set these, what's the point in having any of this? If they want to know your interests they could just ask and accept no as a valid answer. The iOS changes proved that people do not want to be tracked, I think.
  - GordonS 3y ago
    The point would be standardisation - you set preferences once in your browser, rather than on several sites in several different ways. FWIW, I too do not want to be tracked, and so I use an ad blocker etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of improving things for those that don't mind so much - those that accept the "deal" of ads in exchange for content.
superfrank 3y ago
I know a lot of people don't like the Topics API and FLoC (which I believe is dead now, but was kind of the MVP for Topics) and I'm not saying it's perfect, but from everything I've read on it, it seems like a massive improvement over third party cookies. Am I wrong in thinking this way? I realize there are plenty of people out there who just don't want to be tracked at all, but I don't think that option was really ever on the table for Chrome users. To me this seems like a step in the right direction. If there's anyone who can explain the downsides of this new API and has an alternative other than "don't track me" I would honestly love to hear it. I'm sure there are some, but I'm struggling to think of them.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  Why have either? What _user_ wants this? I really struggle to find people that want to be tracked, even anonymously, that have no ties to said tracking companies.
  - tomComb 3y ago
    I want to use internet services that have no paywall. I want them to get paid, with a minimum of ads. And I prefer ads that might be relevant to me, and which might provide value even for small advertisers (as opposed to brand advertising). That all requires data collection and that’s ok with me as long as they handle it responsibly (oddly the ones that handle users data responsibly – never selling or leaking yet - seem to be the most hated). I have no ties to said tracking companies, or any other skin in this game.
    - candiddevmike 3y ago
      Do you think that ads will provide them with enough revenue? Based on the current status-quo, ad-supported only services seem to be waning. Businesses would much prefer paying customers vs ad-supported, I think.
    - SllX 3y ago
      If that’s a choice you get to make without that choice being forced upon me because I clicked a link, great! We’re both happy. I don’t mind a consent wall, or a paywall, but what I do mind is that the second I click a link, the page is already trying to turn my user agent against me to glean as much information about me as possible.
paulddraper 3y ago
Please elaborate? It seems a terrific idea.
jawns 3y ago
A few years ago, I worked for a company that helped retailers infer user intent. And you would not believe the lengths that they would go to to infer simple things like sex (for clothing sites with male and female sections). I kept saying, "Wouldn't it be great if, you know, we just asked people?" And everyone said, "Oh, no, people are never going to volunteer that. They want privacy!" So, great, now we get a Topics API to help advertisers extract this info involuntarily. But without a Shopping API or similar method of volunteering info that's actually useful and makes my browsing experience easier, I have to re-apply the same filters incessantly on every online shopping site I visit, even though I really don't care if anyone knows that I'm a Men's Large with a 36-inch waist.
- ssss11 3y ago
  Yeah you’re right - just ask the user. They can say no, or they can tell you what you want to know. I think companies know that most ppl don’t want to hand over info. This current opaque adtech system coupled with dark pattern ‘options’ to appear like they care is insulting and arrogant.
hiccuphippo 3y ago
So who decides which topics exist and which topics match to which websites? Will the browser send all websites you visit to Google and get back the list of topics?

by Link- 3y ago

98codes 3y ago

It's like Google is trying to give the government evidence of browser / ad vendor bundling effects

sourthyme 3y ago

Yeah I want to know what my topics are and when they change, and if I can disable or fudge my topics.

eli 3y ago
Not sure if it landed yet, but being able to edit/disable individual topics was an announced feature. FWIW most ad networks already let you do this. Here's google's https://myadcenter.google.com/home https://myadcenter.google.com/home
- davidjade 3y ago
  From the FAQ: Why can't I block sensitive topics entirely? We’ll do our best not to show you ads about the topics you limit. In some cases, you might still see an ad containing images related to the topic you’ve limited. For example, you might see an airline ad featuring someone holding a glass of champagne. This isn’t an alcohol ad, even though the ad shows alcohol. In other cases, you might still see an ad about a topic you’ve limited if you search for info about one of those topics or you watch a video related to those topics. So I can make suggestions to Google for ads but not truly disable topics.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - eli 3y ago
    I mean, the point is about profiling you for ads. If you search "buy a car" and get car ads that isn't really about the personal profile Google built up about you over time.
hbn 3y ago
You'd figure it would be a pretty easy thing for a fork to just... not implement? I'll assume they won't be so polite as to allow extension to disable this "feature"
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Just as easy for any browser to just not implement third party cookies.
eis 3y ago
There is an internal page chrome://topics-internals where you can see the topics but I don't think you can fudge them https://developer.chrome.com/docs/privacy-sandbox/topics/#observed-topics https://developer.chrome.com/docs/privacy-sandbox/topics/#ob...
- _boffin_ 3y ago
  There will be some sqlite database that you’ll be able to mess around with, just like the history sqlite database.

kgwxd 3y ago

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they announce the "User-Agent" request header will be "Google-Agent" going forward.

sixothree 3y ago

Yeah. That's sounds icky and gross.

marginalia_nu 3y ago

Dunno, seems useful. Build a zero effort dmoz by visiting individual sites with a clean headless browser and then querying the topic API.

WORMS_EAT_WORMS 3y ago

I guess I don't understand how it is different or better from Google's perspective for its users. Is the main benefit you don't know the exact site you visited but the type of site and basically all the contents or "topics" of it? Not looking to flame. Genuinely looking for just the rundown explanation // privacy benefits // etc..

GordonS 3y ago

I actually think something like the Topics API could work - but with some pretty big changes. Firstly, it's a "hell no" from me on my browser recording what I'm doing and insinuating my interests. At the very least, I'd want to be able to disable that. Secondly, I want to be able to see the topics that are chosen. Finally, I want to be able to edit/set these topics myself.

candiddevmike 3y ago
If you can edit/set these, what's the point in having any of this? If they want to know your interests they could just ask and accept no as a valid answer. The iOS changes proved that people do not want to be tracked, I think.
- GordonS 3y ago
  The point would be standardisation - you set preferences once in your browser, rather than on several sites in several different ways. FWIW, I too do not want to be tracked, and so I use an ad blocker etc. I'm thinking more along the lines of improving things for those that don't mind so much - those that accept the "deal" of ads in exchange for content.

superfrank 3y ago

I know a lot of people don't like the Topics API and FLoC (which I believe is dead now, but was kind of the MVP for Topics) and I'm not saying it's perfect, but from everything I've read on it, it seems like a massive improvement over third party cookies. Am I wrong in thinking this way? I realize there are plenty of people out there who just don't want to be tracked at all, but I don't think that option was really ever on the table for Chrome users. To me this seems like a step in the right direction. If there's anyone who can explain the downsides of this new API and has an alternative other than "don't track me" I would honestly love to hear it. I'm sure there are some, but I'm struggling to think of them.

candiddevmike 3y ago
Why have either? What _user_ wants this? I really struggle to find people that want to be tracked, even anonymously, that have no ties to said tracking companies.
- tomComb 3y ago
  I want to use internet services that have no paywall. I want them to get paid, with a minimum of ads. And I prefer ads that might be relevant to me, and which might provide value even for small advertisers (as opposed to brand advertising). That all requires data collection and that’s ok with me as long as they handle it responsibly (oddly the ones that handle users data responsibly – never selling or leaking yet - seem to be the most hated). I have no ties to said tracking companies, or any other skin in this game.
  - candiddevmike 3y ago
    Do you think that ads will provide them with enough revenue? Based on the current status-quo, ad-supported only services seem to be waning. Businesses would much prefer paying customers vs ad-supported, I think.
  - SllX 3y ago
    If that’s a choice you get to make without that choice being forced upon me because I clicked a link, great! We’re both happy. I don’t mind a consent wall, or a paywall, but what I do mind is that the second I click a link, the page is already trying to turn my user agent against me to glean as much information about me as possible.

paulddraper 3y ago

Please elaborate? It seems a terrific idea.

jawns 3y ago

A few years ago, I worked for a company that helped retailers infer user intent. And you would not believe the lengths that they would go to to infer simple things like sex (for clothing sites with male and female sections). I kept saying, "Wouldn't it be great if, you know, we just asked people?" And everyone said, "Oh, no, people are never going to volunteer that. They want privacy!" So, great, now we get a Topics API to help advertisers extract this info involuntarily. But without a Shopping API or similar method of volunteering info that's actually useful and makes my browsing experience easier, I have to re-apply the same filters incessantly on every online shopping site I visit, even though I really don't care if anyone knows that I'm a Men's Large with a 36-inch waist.

ssss11 3y ago
Yeah you’re right - just ask the user. They can say no, or they can tell you what you want to know. I think companies know that most ppl don’t want to hand over info. This current opaque adtech system coupled with dark pattern ‘options’ to appear like they care is insulting and arrogant.

hiccuphippo 3y ago

So who decides which topics exist and which topics match to which websites? Will the browser send all websites you visit to Google and get back the list of topics?