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Key paragraphs > If there are mods here who are willing to work towards reopening this community, we are willing to work with you to process a Top Mod Removal

Key paragraphs > If there are mods here who are willing to work towards reopening this community, we are willing to work with you to process a Top Mod Removal request or reorder the mod team to achieve this goal if mods higher up the list are hindering reopening. We would handle this request and any retaliation attempts here in this modmail chain immediately. > Our goal is to work with the existing mod team to find a path forward and make sure your subreddit is made available for the community which makes its home here. If you are not able or willing to reopen and maintain the community, please let us know.

hombre_fatal 3y ago
Kinda crazy how a lower mod can request a higher mod's removal. Pretty unhealthy precedent for a community where mods are already power hungry lunatics and your most obsessed power hungry mod who spends all day needlessly moderating the subreddit can appeal to reddit with "look how much more active I am than him; he barely does anything! So, gimme the subreddit pls."
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Normally it's only possible when the top mod has been inactive for a long time.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  > mods are already power hungry lunatics and your most obsessed power hungry mod I mean, here you are just describing the mods that are holding these subreddits hostage. It seems appropriate for reddit to return these to the community in the case where the obsessed power hungry mod's behavior goes against what the community wants.
  - bbor 3y ago
    Have there been any subreddits that voted to open instead of stay closed? All the ones I’ve heard about were in favor of maintaining the protest
    - slaymaker1907 3y ago
      r/NewOrleans and r/SaltLakeCity voted to end it. There has also been rampant brigading from the pro-blackout side (see r/magicTCG, in addition to a Twitch stream brigade users on r/freemagic talked about voting in the poll despite being banned from r/magicTCG). I’m curious how r/FanFiction will go since they’re doing much more robust polling with karma requirements to stop brigades.
      - BryantD 3y ago
        There’s been brigading from both sides, it’s just more noticeable when it’s an outcome you personally disagree with. I’m having to remind myself that just because a) my subreddit has someone who’s never posted there vehemently arguing to stay open and b) staying open is winning the poll, that doesn’t mean it’s a brigade. (There would be more people voting if it was a brigade, so I’m pretty sure it’s not. But emotionally it bugs me.)
    - BryantD 3y ago
      I run a thousand member subreddit that is probably going to vote to stay open. Insignificant but it’s a data point.
  - atty 3y ago
    Holding them hostage? The reddits I’ve been a part of voted to be closed.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  If the higher up mods clearly don't want to run the show anymore it is natural, just and right to rely those who do.
  - faangsticle 3y ago
    They are still running the show. Making your subreddit private is, or at least used to be, a perfectly legitimate way of running things. Remember, reddit added that feature to their website.
    - bitshiftfaced 3y ago
      Yeah I have a feeling that that feature may be going away after this all blows over.
      - faangsticle 3y ago
        There's still automod that you can use to just delete everything the moment it appears.
p4bl0 3y ago
Classic attempt to break a strike. Would mods be employee, this would be illegal (at least in France). This shows how Reddit the company think how the people who work for them for free on Reddit the platform and make its value.
- slg 3y ago
  My mind immediately went to strike-breaking too. This isn't quite the same as they are targeting a volunteer group that has shown no interest to form a union, but this is so obviously a play out of the union busting handbook. Divide the group, make it seem like only a few select leaders want whatever they are negotiating over, and offering to elevate cooperative people into positions of power if they are willing to participate in a coup.
  - bbor 3y ago
    Is it not a real strike if the volunteers provide labor? A question for the philosophers, and in the coming years/decades, the lawyers. In the us it is the national labor relations board, after all! Not employement relations
    - slaymaker1907 3y ago
      I think it’s something different than a strike and should thus not have any legal protections. Strikes are fair in some sense because workers aren’t being paid during that time (or at the very most by the union coffers) which goes up against the company’s ability to weather the lost revenue during the strike. In this case, mods can keep subreddits dark without any cost to themselves because they aren’t being paid by Reddit. It’d be like if library volunteers protested by closing the library and stopping any new volunteers from entering by installing a lock on the door. OFC the library is within their rights to break the lock to let other volunteers in.
      - bbor 3y ago
        Mmmm I have an issue with the specifics of that metaphor applying to Reddit, but in general, people volunteer because volunteering brings them some non-monetary benefit, so I see it as basically the same dynamic. Of course you can’t lock the doors, just like you can’t physically obstruct/harm scabs. In the near future when AGI eliminates scarcity (2025?) this will have to be litigated!
themaninthedark 3y ago
It sounds to me like there are Top Mods who want to continue the boycott, with others who don't and that Reddit is looking at giving the other mods a path forward. One of the things I have noticed is that the boycott is not from the users but from the mods of the community. Even if the community had a vote, if you want to boycott fine but they are forcing others to go along with with them. So either they are not the majority or they feel that the community has such little willpower to continue the boycott that they must force them to take part.
- Maxion 3y ago
  Huh? All subreddits that have ran votes, the community has been in majority favor of closing.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    Not what I've seen at all, which is why many subs are reopened with stickied posts saying it's what their communities wanted.
  - intothemild 3y ago
    I voted on a few of those, so these were real, and the outcome was overwhelmingly voting for blackout. I think the larger issue is now the blackout is still continuing the addicts are needing their fix.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    That is (1) not true and (2) meaningless given most of those polls were brigaded by a small set of vocal whiny users voting in subreddits they aren't even involved in (3) even given both if those, I doubt you can find a poll for a large subreddit that shows even 10% of users supporting a blackout.
    - spicymapotofu 3y ago
      So, can you show how most polls were brigaded?
jayd16 3y ago
I guess the trick would be to flood Reddit with requests from allied mods that will keep the sub closed anyway. Presumably Reddit doesn't have the bandwidth to really vet these requests.
- teeray 3y ago
  This is the way. Especially if the action can be more unpredictable than simply taking the subreddit private. Maybe remove all new posts or something. If you can turn all of the subreddits into tens of thousands of problem children for Reddit that they can’t fix with automation, they will be unable to cope.

hombre_fatal 3y ago

Kinda crazy how a lower mod can request a higher mod's removal. Pretty unhealthy precedent for a community where mods are already power hungry lunatics and your most obsessed power hungry mod who spends all day needlessly moderating the subreddit can appeal to reddit with "look how much more active I am than him; he barely does anything! So, gimme the subreddit pls."

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Normally it's only possible when the top mod has been inactive for a long time.
ahahahahah 3y ago
> mods are already power hungry lunatics and your most obsessed power hungry mod I mean, here you are just describing the mods that are holding these subreddits hostage. It seems appropriate for reddit to return these to the community in the case where the obsessed power hungry mod's behavior goes against what the community wants.
- bbor 3y ago
  Have there been any subreddits that voted to open instead of stay closed? All the ones I’ve heard about were in favor of maintaining the protest
  - slaymaker1907 3y ago
    r/NewOrleans and r/SaltLakeCity voted to end it. There has also been rampant brigading from the pro-blackout side (see r/magicTCG, in addition to a Twitch stream brigade users on r/freemagic talked about voting in the poll despite being banned from r/magicTCG). I’m curious how r/FanFiction will go since they’re doing much more robust polling with karma requirements to stop brigades.
    - BryantD 3y ago
      There’s been brigading from both sides, it’s just more noticeable when it’s an outcome you personally disagree with. I’m having to remind myself that just because a) my subreddit has someone who’s never posted there vehemently arguing to stay open and b) staying open is winning the poll, that doesn’t mean it’s a brigade. (There would be more people voting if it was a brigade, so I’m pretty sure it’s not. But emotionally it bugs me.)
  - BryantD 3y ago
    I run a thousand member subreddit that is probably going to vote to stay open. Insignificant but it’s a data point.
- atty 3y ago
  Holding them hostage? The reddits I’ve been a part of voted to be closed.
Ekaros 3y ago
If the higher up mods clearly don't want to run the show anymore it is natural, just and right to rely those who do.
- faangsticle 3y ago
  They are still running the show. Making your subreddit private is, or at least used to be, a perfectly legitimate way of running things. Remember, reddit added that feature to their website.
  - bitshiftfaced 3y ago
    Yeah I have a feeling that that feature may be going away after this all blows over.
    - faangsticle 3y ago
      There's still automod that you can use to just delete everything the moment it appears.

p4bl0 3y ago

Classic attempt to break a strike. Would mods be employee, this would be illegal (at least in France). This shows how Reddit the company think how the people who work for them for free on Reddit the platform and make its value.

slg 3y ago
My mind immediately went to strike-breaking too. This isn't quite the same as they are targeting a volunteer group that has shown no interest to form a union, but this is so obviously a play out of the union busting handbook. Divide the group, make it seem like only a few select leaders want whatever they are negotiating over, and offering to elevate cooperative people into positions of power if they are willing to participate in a coup.
- bbor 3y ago
  Is it not a real strike if the volunteers provide labor? A question for the philosophers, and in the coming years/decades, the lawyers. In the us it is the national labor relations board, after all! Not employement relations
  - slaymaker1907 3y ago
    I think it’s something different than a strike and should thus not have any legal protections. Strikes are fair in some sense because workers aren’t being paid during that time (or at the very most by the union coffers) which goes up against the company’s ability to weather the lost revenue during the strike. In this case, mods can keep subreddits dark without any cost to themselves because they aren’t being paid by Reddit. It’d be like if library volunteers protested by closing the library and stopping any new volunteers from entering by installing a lock on the door. OFC the library is within their rights to break the lock to let other volunteers in.
    - bbor 3y ago
      Mmmm I have an issue with the specifics of that metaphor applying to Reddit, but in general, people volunteer because volunteering brings them some non-monetary benefit, so I see it as basically the same dynamic. Of course you can’t lock the doors, just like you can’t physically obstruct/harm scabs. In the near future when AGI eliminates scarcity (2025?) this will have to be litigated!

themaninthedark 3y ago

It sounds to me like there are Top Mods who want to continue the boycott, with others who don't and that Reddit is looking at giving the other mods a path forward. One of the things I have noticed is that the boycott is not from the users but from the mods of the community. Even if the community had a vote, if you want to boycott fine but they are forcing others to go along with with them. So either they are not the majority or they feel that the community has such little willpower to continue the boycott that they must force them to take part.

Maxion 3y ago
Huh? All subreddits that have ran votes, the community has been in majority favor of closing.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Not what I've seen at all, which is why many subs are reopened with stickied posts saying it's what their communities wanted.
- intothemild 3y ago
  I voted on a few of those, so these were real, and the outcome was overwhelmingly voting for blackout. I think the larger issue is now the blackout is still continuing the addicts are needing their fix.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  That is (1) not true and (2) meaningless given most of those polls were brigaded by a small set of vocal whiny users voting in subreddits they aren't even involved in (3) even given both if those, I doubt you can find a poll for a large subreddit that shows even 10% of users supporting a blackout.
  - spicymapotofu 3y ago
    So, can you show how most polls were brigaded?

jayd16 3y ago

I guess the trick would be to flood Reddit with requests from allied mods that will keep the sub closed anyway. Presumably Reddit doesn't have the bandwidth to really vet these requests.

teeray 3y ago
This is the way. Especially if the action can be more unpredictable than simply taking the subreddit private. Maybe remove all new posts or something. If you can turn all of the subreddits into tens of thousands of problem children for Reddit that they can’t fix with automation, they will be unable to cope.