7 ms·

I live in the Seattle area now, and I find it hilarious that the public transportation infrastructure around Climate Pledge Arena (which Amazon bought the namin

by skwb 3y ago

I live in the Seattle area now, and I find it hilarious that the public transportation infrastructure around Climate Pledge Arena (which Amazon bought the naming rights for) is horrendously bad. My wife and I looked into taking the subway + somehow transferring to the monorail, only to see that service was super limited by the time the concert finished. We end up parking nearby since it's cheaper/easier to do so. Completely the worst set of incentives.

tomcam 3y ago
Is Amazon responsible for Seattle public transit in return for naming rights or something? Not following your logic.
- whatever1 3y ago
  Tech population grew faster than the infrastructure in the wider Seattle area. Especially after the return-to-office mandates from the companies, traffic is at LA levels. 1-2 hour 1-way commutes are common.
  - influx 3y ago
    If only we had a city council and state government that cared about the environment and priorities public transport…
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - mbgerring 3y ago
      If only we had meaningful state capacity in the US, and didn’t depend on the whims of wealthy individuals
      - hackernewds 3y ago
        If only we cared less about those without wealth and power, and bulldozed our way over these helpless communities like other countries with solid public transportation have done.
        sofixa 3y ago
        That's mostly an American thing (bulldozing the poor away to build infrastructure, mostly highways). For instance, Paris is currently building 200km of new metros, with minimal disruption outside of stations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Paris_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Paris_Express There's also the massive Chinese subway building program. And the London Crossrail. And many others.
        reaperducer 3y ago
        Americans on HN like to pretend that transit is a magical unicorn fairy dream in other countries, especially Europe. America has a long way to go, but people who work in this space know that every country has its problems. There's a passenger rail magazine available at larger American bookstores and sometimes model railroad shops. It covers passenger rail news around the world, and really lays out some of the massive problems that exist in every country. You cite Crossrail as an example, but Crossrail was notoriously plagued with problems and controversy. It was first labeled a "high priority" 1974. It opened 48 years later. Britain's train system is so dysfunctional, it's being re-nationalized. Train companies are bailing on their contracts because they can't make money. And the entire country is littered with hundreds of abandoned train station and rail lines that were discontinued, cutting off many towns and villages. It's also comical that you state that "bulldozing the poor away to build infrastructure" is an American thing, and then turn to China as a shining example. You can't be serious. China has displaced millions of people (bulldozed) because they were in the way of transit projects. If America could employ construction workers for China's meager wages, America would have trains everywhere. Perhaps if it brought back slave labor, like China has, that would work.
        sofixa 3y ago
    - throwawaylinux 3y ago
      Corporations lobby to back and influence local government to rubber-stamp their plans without requiring the necessary services and infrastructure to be in place or paid for. Don't try to put it in the voters' lap.
      - Tyrek 3y ago
        if only local government and voters had agency to oppose such influences.
        swexbe 3y ago
        "Stop hitting yourself"
        throwawaylinux 3y ago
        They do, and the process is not always robust enough to counter corporate lobbying and political corruption.
  - housemusicfan 3y ago
    [dead]
balls187 3y ago
I regularly go to events at CPA and use public transport (which is free for anyone with a ticket to a CPA event). Sounds like you couldn't figure it out, that's not the fault of the infrastructure, but rather bad UX for route planning. FWIW, Paris Metro (which is great) also had wonky UX, until you get the hang of it. Anyway, take the Link Light Rail to Westlake Station. That's where you catch the Monorail to CPA. Do it in reverse at the end of your event.
manacit 3y ago
I live down in the south end and have taken the train + monorail more than once to a concert at Climate Pledge without issue, absolutely no issues. The Monorail takes Orca now, and the transfer at Westlake is not bad at all. I would highly recommend giving it a try.
- 93po 3y ago
  I also recently did just this without any problems. A minor wait after the Kraken game for the monorail, but I took my sweet time getting there and it was only a 10-15 min wait.
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  [dead]
- icelancer 3y ago
  Yeah, I agree. There's a decent bit to complain about RE: bus routes (lol Northgate to Ballard being impossible somehow) but public transportation in Seattle is largely pretty good. I commuted downtown daily on various bus lines before the light rail was a thing, and when I go downtown now from South Seattle, the light rail is quite solid. Light rail -> monorail -> Climate Pledge works extremely well. Not sure why GP is complaining, or anyone. The monorail was completely useless forever, no doubt about it, but now it's actually good for the Kraken and shows at Climate Pledge.
lchengify 3y ago
I live in the area. Theoretically the West Seattle / Ballard link extensions will include stops at Seattle Center (park between the Space Needle and Climate Pledge Arena). Shovels in the ground 2026, ETA 2037. [1] https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-ballard-link-extensions https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-b... [2] https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-ballard-link-extensions/timeline-milestones https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-b...
- hackernewds 3y ago
  That ETA is hilarious. Hope we have a planet worth redemption by the
  - dag11 3y ago
    We get quarterly pamphlets in the mail by Sound Transit detailing the latest updates on the subway construction projects and reading these pamphlets is one of the few moments where I really confront the concept of mortality. The years annotated on certain lines opening stretch into the mid 2040s! I'm a huge supporter of rapid transit in our area and it just breaks my heart to see our (best-case) pace of construction, especially when I go and look at European and Asian rapid transit projects.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Construction crews nearby spent 3 years redoing a 2 mile stretch of 2 lane road. 3 years of detours and one lane with flaggers. Now that it's done, it's still 2 lanes. It boggles the mind.
    - culturestate 3y ago
      > it just breaks my heart to see our (best-case) pace of construction, especially when I go and look at European and Asian rapid transit projects. It's not a strictly apples-to-apples comparison, but the Circle Line on the Singapore MRT was approved in 1998, broke ground in 2002, partially opened in 2011, and is scheduled for completion in 2026. Unless you have the freedom to make up the rules as you go along, as sometimes happens with e.g. China's metro and rail expansion, this stuff always takes time.
cantaloupe 3y ago
Downtown Seattle’s not that big. Walking from Westlake (light rail) to Climate Pledge is 20-25 minutes, no transfer needed.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  I don’t know about you, but 20 minutes sounds like quite a walk. It’s absolutely possible, and can be done for fun, but if your main goal is going to a concert tacking on another 40 minutes walking may be mildly frustrating.
  - cantaloupe 3y ago
    That’s fair, although people often underestimate the time “more convenient” options take. For example, walk 2 minutes to a bus, wait 5 minutes, ride 5 minutes, walk 3 minutes to destination. Not too much faster. Happens all the time with cars in the city. Spend 5 minutes looking for parking that ends up being a 5 minute walk away, and a 10 drive is now a 20 minute transit.
    - dag11 3y ago
      With the amount of rain we get (or just cold or brisk or misty weather in general) for 3/4 of the year, even if the transit option is only 16 minutes (inclusive of the bookend walks, according to Google Maps), it's still infinitely preferable to walking 20 minutes in that weather.
      - wiml 3y ago
        We rarely get the kind of rain that's unpleasant to walk in. If you have a hat or jacket you'll be fine.
        dag11 3y ago
        I have a fantastic, well-fitting rain shell, and comfortable waterproof shoes. Rain is absolutely no problem for me, but the general inconvenience of it all (wet exterior, wet face, etc) and temperatures are still enough to make me vastly prefer the transit option compared to a slightly longer walking option.
_huayra_ 3y ago
They even added a "reverse incentive": you can park in any of the Amazon garages for free after 4pm or any time on weekends (as long as you leave by 2am, and even then the charges are pretty cheap if you blow past the deadline).
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
The rapid bus D line goes straight there if you live in Ballard. That will be replaced by a light rail when I’m retired. We go to Seattle center a lot, though never for the arena. The monorail is cool, but if you have transit links in Seattle and the monorail is OOS, you can always walk that stretch pretty easily.
- verst 3y ago
  I live in Ballard and frequent the D and 40 buses to get to Seattle center or downtown. Uber / Lyft are insanely expensive now, and I have a zero alcohol policy when I'm driving.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    The D is crazy, the 40 can be less so. Another option is link + 44 in the U district, sometimes it’s only 5 minutes slower.
lynx23 3y ago
> cheaper/easier to do so Right, with this attitude, nothing will ever improve. Yes, infrastructure needs to be built, no question. But if "cheaper/easier to do" are the only criteria for people to decide how to act, we are doomed. Get your act together and make some sacrifice, or stop talking about climate change altogether.

by skwb 3y ago

tomcam 3y ago

Is Amazon responsible for Seattle public transit in return for naming rights or something? Not following your logic.

whatever1 3y ago
Tech population grew faster than the infrastructure in the wider Seattle area. Especially after the return-to-office mandates from the companies, traffic is at LA levels. 1-2 hour 1-way commutes are common.
- influx 3y ago
  If only we had a city council and state government that cared about the environment and priorities public transport…
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - mbgerring 3y ago
    If only we had meaningful state capacity in the US, and didn’t depend on the whims of wealthy individuals
    - hackernewds 3y ago
      If only we cared less about those without wealth and power, and bulldozed our way over these helpless communities like other countries with solid public transportation have done.
      - sofixa 3y ago
        That's mostly an American thing (bulldozing the poor away to build infrastructure, mostly highways). For instance, Paris is currently building 200km of new metros, with minimal disruption outside of stations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Paris_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Paris_Express There's also the massive Chinese subway building program. And the London Crossrail. And many others.
        reaperducer 3y ago
        Americans on HN like to pretend that transit is a magical unicorn fairy dream in other countries, especially Europe. America has a long way to go, but people who work in this space know that every country has its problems. There's a passenger rail magazine available at larger American bookstores and sometimes model railroad shops. It covers passenger rail news around the world, and really lays out some of the massive problems that exist in every country. You cite Crossrail as an example, but Crossrail was notoriously plagued with problems and controversy. It was first labeled a "high priority" 1974. It opened 48 years later. Britain's train system is so dysfunctional, it's being re-nationalized. Train companies are bailing on their contracts because they can't make money. And the entire country is littered with hundreds of abandoned train station and rail lines that were discontinued, cutting off many towns and villages. It's also comical that you state that "bulldozing the poor away to build infrastructure" is an American thing, and then turn to China as a shining example. You can't be serious. China has displaced millions of people (bulldozed) because they were in the way of transit projects. If America could employ construction workers for China's meager wages, America would have trains everywhere. Perhaps if it brought back slave labor, like China has, that would work.
        sofixa 3y ago
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    Corporations lobby to back and influence local government to rubber-stamp their plans without requiring the necessary services and infrastructure to be in place or paid for. Don't try to put it in the voters' lap.
    - Tyrek 3y ago
      if only local government and voters had agency to oppose such influences.
      - swexbe 3y ago
        "Stop hitting yourself"
      - throwawaylinux 3y ago
        They do, and the process is not always robust enough to counter corporate lobbying and political corruption.
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  [dead]

balls187 3y ago

I regularly go to events at CPA and use public transport (which is free for anyone with a ticket to a CPA event). Sounds like you couldn't figure it out, that's not the fault of the infrastructure, but rather bad UX for route planning. FWIW, Paris Metro (which is great) also had wonky UX, until you get the hang of it. Anyway, take the Link Light Rail to Westlake Station. That's where you catch the Monorail to CPA. Do it in reverse at the end of your event.

manacit 3y ago

I live down in the south end and have taken the train + monorail more than once to a concert at Climate Pledge without issue, absolutely no issues. The Monorail takes Orca now, and the transfer at Westlake is not bad at all. I would highly recommend giving it a try.

93po 3y ago
I also recently did just this without any problems. A minor wait after the Kraken game for the monorail, but I took my sweet time getting there and it was only a 10-15 min wait.
housemusicfan 3y ago
[dead]
icelancer 3y ago
Yeah, I agree. There's a decent bit to complain about RE: bus routes (lol Northgate to Ballard being impossible somehow) but public transportation in Seattle is largely pretty good. I commuted downtown daily on various bus lines before the light rail was a thing, and when I go downtown now from South Seattle, the light rail is quite solid. Light rail -> monorail -> Climate Pledge works extremely well. Not sure why GP is complaining, or anyone. The monorail was completely useless forever, no doubt about it, but now it's actually good for the Kraken and shows at Climate Pledge.

lchengify 3y ago

I live in the area. Theoretically the West Seattle / Ballard link extensions will include stops at Seattle Center (park between the Space Needle and Climate Pledge Arena). Shovels in the ground 2026, ETA 2037. [1] https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-ballard-link-extensions https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-b... [2] https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-ballard-link-extensions/timeline-milestones https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-b...

hackernewds 3y ago
That ETA is hilarious. Hope we have a planet worth redemption by the
- dag11 3y ago
  We get quarterly pamphlets in the mail by Sound Transit detailing the latest updates on the subway construction projects and reading these pamphlets is one of the few moments where I really confront the concept of mortality. The years annotated on certain lines opening stretch into the mid 2040s! I'm a huge supporter of rapid transit in our area and it just breaks my heart to see our (best-case) pace of construction, especially when I go and look at European and Asian rapid transit projects.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Construction crews nearby spent 3 years redoing a 2 mile stretch of 2 lane road. 3 years of detours and one lane with flaggers. Now that it's done, it's still 2 lanes. It boggles the mind.
  - culturestate 3y ago
    > it just breaks my heart to see our (best-case) pace of construction, especially when I go and look at European and Asian rapid transit projects. It's not a strictly apples-to-apples comparison, but the Circle Line on the Singapore MRT was approved in 1998, broke ground in 2002, partially opened in 2011, and is scheduled for completion in 2026. Unless you have the freedom to make up the rules as you go along, as sometimes happens with e.g. China's metro and rail expansion, this stuff always takes time.

cantaloupe 3y ago

Downtown Seattle’s not that big. Walking from Westlake (light rail) to Climate Pledge is 20-25 minutes, no transfer needed.

Aeolun 3y ago
I don’t know about you, but 20 minutes sounds like quite a walk. It’s absolutely possible, and can be done for fun, but if your main goal is going to a concert tacking on another 40 minutes walking may be mildly frustrating.
- cantaloupe 3y ago
  That’s fair, although people often underestimate the time “more convenient” options take. For example, walk 2 minutes to a bus, wait 5 minutes, ride 5 minutes, walk 3 minutes to destination. Not too much faster. Happens all the time with cars in the city. Spend 5 minutes looking for parking that ends up being a 5 minute walk away, and a 10 drive is now a 20 minute transit.
  - dag11 3y ago
    With the amount of rain we get (or just cold or brisk or misty weather in general) for 3/4 of the year, even if the transit option is only 16 minutes (inclusive of the bookend walks, according to Google Maps), it's still infinitely preferable to walking 20 minutes in that weather.
    - wiml 3y ago
      We rarely get the kind of rain that's unpleasant to walk in. If you have a hat or jacket you'll be fine.
      - dag11 3y ago
        I have a fantastic, well-fitting rain shell, and comfortable waterproof shoes. Rain is absolutely no problem for me, but the general inconvenience of it all (wet exterior, wet face, etc) and temperatures are still enough to make me vastly prefer the transit option compared to a slightly longer walking option.

_huayra_ 3y ago

They even added a "reverse incentive": you can park in any of the Amazon garages for free after 4pm or any time on weekends (as long as you leave by 2am, and even then the charges are pretty cheap if you blow past the deadline).

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

The rapid bus D line goes straight there if you live in Ballard. That will be replaced by a light rail when I’m retired. We go to Seattle center a lot, though never for the arena. The monorail is cool, but if you have transit links in Seattle and the monorail is OOS, you can always walk that stretch pretty easily.

verst 3y ago
I live in Ballard and frequent the D and 40 buses to get to Seattle center or downtown. Uber / Lyft are insanely expensive now, and I have a zero alcohol policy when I'm driving.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  The D is crazy, the 40 can be less so. Another option is link + 44 in the U district, sometimes it’s only 5 minutes slower.

lynx23 3y ago

> cheaper/easier to do so Right, with this attitude, nothing will ever improve. Yes, infrastructure needs to be built, no question. But if "cheaper/easier to do" are the only criteria for people to decide how to act, we are doomed. Get your act together and make some sacrifice, or stop talking about climate change altogether.