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Wikipedia to Shut Down on Wednesday to Protest SOPA
- mdonahoe 15y agoIs this still happening now that SOPA has been benched?
- fjarlq 15y agoOf course. The war is far from over.
- Avenger42 15y agoPIPA is still moving forward: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120116/02442717414/harry-reid-says-hes-concerned-pipa-will-break-internet-we-must-move-forward-with-it-because-jobs.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120116/02442717414/harry-...
- Natsu 15y agoI don't know, but I think it needs to. Some part of me thinks this is just a trick to get the heat off of them.
- lpolovets 15y agoI know there's a lot of cynicism about whether SOPA law is really being abandoned, or whether it's just being temporarily shelved, but I'm really excited about how opponents have banded together, and how organizations like Reddit and Wikipedia have been willing to sacrifice page views and revenue to show their support and to increase public awareness. In the future, when someone advocates opposing an unjust law and someone else responds that opposition is futile, the anti-SOPA efforts will serve as a compelling and encouraging counterargument.
- vaksel 15y agoThey should capitalize on the momentum and create an organization that can get everyone mobilized quickly in the future. Politicians kiss up to tiny groups just because they are somewhat influential...think of billions going to subsidies for farmers or even tiny 1 issue groups. Surely together, the tech community is much more influential than them.
- sequoia 15y agoI think you're describing moveon.org. EDIT: I was unclear. "create an organization that can get everyone mobilized quickly in the future." From the wiki page of moveon.org: "They started by passing around a petition asking Congress to 'censure President Clinton and move on', as opposed to impeaching him." It was a single-issue online activism group that grew into an organization known for quickly mobilizing lots of people for political causes. I should have been more specific! :)
- nicksergeant 15y agoThere's not a single mention of PIPA/SOPA on that site.
- LeafStorm 15y agoMoveOn.org is a blatantly left-wing organization, whereas supporters of a free Internet come from the left, the right, the center, and the north (Libertarians, if you're using the Nolan scale). Even if MoveOn.org were to embrace the tech community and Internet freedom, they support a whole boatload of other causes that many Internet freedom supporters, myself included, disagree with, and use rather tactless advertising strategies. If we are going to start an organization dedicated to Internet freedom, it needs to be focused solely on that issue, or at least similar issues such as freedom of speech in the general sense, and not get into the other controversial topics like health care and foreign policy that have the potential to divide us.
- nextparadigms 15y agoYou may joke, but I find the Internet to be more libertarian than anything else, and by that I don't necessarily mean the people on it, but how the Internet works.
- kiba 15y agoPage views and revenues would keep to exists if SOPA snuff their site in the future. It's about looking for the long term.
- 16s 15y agoThe politicians will claim it is dead, then name it something else or not name it anything at all and just tack it onto the end of some other legislation and pass it when no one is watching. In the USA, they're bought and paid for.
- cwe 15y agothey may be able to keep the people from knowing about it until it happens, but with all this outrage it seems unlikely they'll be able to keep it quiet after the fact. Then they'll have to answer to this behavior come election time.
- 16s 15y agoThey don't care. They honor those who buy the lobster dinners and give them 30 dollar cigars. When you vote them out, they'll have several six or seven figure cushy job offers to pick from. --- From wikipedia: In February 2011, despite "repeatedly and categorically insisting that he would not work as a lobbyist,"[22][23] [senator Chris] Dodd was identified by The New York Times as the likely replacement for Dan Glickman as chairman and chief lobbyist for the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA).[24] The hiring was officially announced on March 1, 2011.[25]
- bad_user 15y agoThe individuals may end up with six/seven figure cushy jobs, but the party may still suffer long-term consequences. When you're in politics, money is only good for one thing: buying votes. However, if a force stronger than free t-shirts and pens makes itself noticed, like mass-media reminding people how they got screwed, then interesting things can happen. I think the main issue here with these people is that the Internet is not controlled so tightly as traditional media. And we are just starting to see the social effects.
- tonio09 15y agoThe internet might not be as tightly controlled but think of the Great Firewall of China. In addition, it's an excellent tool for surveillance. People periodically realize that they are being screwed over, yet most of the time after the initial outrage nothing happens. There may be some scandals but wait 6 months and it's all forgotten.
- thezilch 15y agoSOPA can be left to die on the vine, which was less of a concern than the supporting industries and politicians having such powerful draw on our livelihoods. Whether SOPA, PIPA, etc are alive or not, acts like these -- Wikipedia, Reddit, etc blackouts -- or tech pundits -- Dan Kaminsky (DNS hacker) and Alexis Ohanian (Reddit.com co-founder) on national TV -- still need to happen; the general public needs to know of the grievous acts, passed or not, of industry and their politicians. Otherwise, as we continue to echo, these same groups will create a separate set of laws under another guise and continue to push their ideals.
- ErrantX 15y agoIt's not being abandoned. They are just using the same tactics as always. * Push a dodgy law to the brink of a vote * Get the opposers to bluster into obscurity * Sneak the same legislation in under other laws/names later in the year. (* Profit????) They do this all the time.
- forsaken 15y agoI think that it's crazy that all of this effort is going into opposing SOPA. It seems that there should be a bill/effort drafted to codify the freedom of the internet, and making DNS blocking illegal.
- fjarlq 15y agoSounds good. I suppose you're talking about constitutional amendment.
- SoftwareMaven 15y agoThe only thing that might help is a constitutional amendment. A law can easily be overwritten. An amendment at least gets some oversight from the Supreme Court.
- jacoblyles 15y agoThere has been some discussion about this already. I am 100% behind going on the offense for internet freedom: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3463847 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3463847 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3464227 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3464227
- abecedarius 15y agoAlso http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3464814 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3464814
- leeoniya 15y agowell, it appears that i'm out a $1.00 :D EDIT: downvoted for pledging $1 to wiki for blackout? interesting.
- CraigRood 15y agoYou have probably been downvoted for not adding anything to the conversation, this is not Reddit.
- maeon3 15y agoLast week I said I would donate money to wikipedia if they did this. I just donated $50 just now via credit card through the main page.
- eminkel 15y agoI also stated I would donate money as well, looks like I must now. :)
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- YetAnotherAlias 15y agoI made an additional donation to Wikipedia because of their stand on this issue. Seth Godin was right when he said "If the user supports it, she owns it. If support comes from anonymous government money, or some corporate sponsorship, then the interactions don't matter so much, and it's more distant from you." I have never felt closer to Wikipedia than today. http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/12/who-owns-wikipedia.html http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/12/who-owns-wik....
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- fosk 15y agoThis reminds me when a few months ago Wikipedia shut down in Italy to protest against a similar case regarding censorship. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3072800 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3072800
- lambada 15y agoIs this US only, or is this going to take it offline for the whole internet? The article doesn't specify, but last I checked there was strong support for a US only blackout.
- joell 15y ago@jimmy_wales : English only, but protest action is global for English.
- lambada 15y agoThanks, so en.wiki will be gone for the whole world. Not sure how I feel about that as there is nothing non-US citizens can do.
- joell 15y agoThey can complain on Twitter and Facebook which will raise awareness to their American friends who can do something about it.
- jarek 15y agoIf all non-US citizens that use the English Wikipedia had US citizen friends they could engage politically, US politics would look vastly different already.
- philwelch 15y agoThey can proactively call their MP and tell them not to do what we are doing here in America.
- dkersten 15y agoBut SOPA would affect us english speaking non-US people too, so raising awareness in the rest of the world is a good idea. We should be putting pressure on our own governments to a) not pass a SOPA-like law themselves and b) to not support the US in this, for example, Spain shouldn't cave into US pressure to pass a similar law.
- simondlr 15y agoThis and the cheezeburger network will put it in the eyes of people who wouldn't have seen it otherwise. Sites like reddit already preach to the choir! Go team internet!
- rshm 15y agoIt will send a strong message for PIPA as well as the similar legislations in future. I still like to see google,facebook .. to come up with something creative on their front page.
- maxklein 15y agoI don't think this is a good idea. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that many people depend on all over the world. Encyclopedias should not just switch off for political reasons. Books don't turn off. Digital information should not turn on and off either for any reason. A big red banner covering half the page can get the message across without actually making us unable to access the information stored in wikipedia.
- rehashed 15y ago> Encyclopedias should not just switch off for political reasons. I believe this is the point of the demonstration.
- Zirro 15y ago"Books don't turn off. Digital information should not turn on and off either for any reason." Would SOPA care for those arguments?
- extension 15y agoIt's not politics, it's survival.
- cryptoz 15y agoIf SOPA passes, Wikipedia could be taken offline forever. Is that really a preferable situation? Also, if you're that scared, you've been given fair warning. Download a copy for your archives, so you can keep using Wikipedia while it's offline.
- ed2417 15y agoThere is currently no notification of this on their homepage. Only two days away, I think it would be good form to update.
- ck2 15y agoFor the addicted (7.3 GB) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
- blhack 15y agoPlease don't download this if you don't need it. It's kindof a waste of wikipedia's bandwidth.
- bpodgursky 15y agoThe dump is also available via torrents from that page.
- jessriedel 15y agoWhat blhack said. Instead, get the torrent: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6430796/English_Wikipedia_(All_Articles)_-_May_2011 http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6430796/English_Wikipedia_(A...
- barrkel 15y agoThis perfectly legal torrent link blocked in Ireland, btw.
- slig 15y agoAny known and reliable online mirror of the English Wikipedia?
- dangrossman 15y agohttp://www.answers.com http://www.answers.com if you choose "Reference topics" above the search box.
- jvoorhis 15y agohttp://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ seems fairly transparent, but is out of date (no entry for SOPA).
- badclient 15y agoSo, what happens when I call my Congressman after learning about this on wikipedia and his office says "oh SOPA, that bill has been put on hold already since last week"? Won't many people get pissed at wikipedia? Edit: I actually think they should call it off at the last moment. Save the nuclear option for another time.
- ender7 15y agoI wonder, who does the average American trust more: their Congressman or Wikipedia? (also: Wikipedia can easily put in a line next to the "Call your rep" section addressing this. I don't know about you, but "on hold" doesn't sound very final to me.)
- badclient 15y agoI'd reckon most Americans, as guarded as they may be about politicians, would take the word of the office of a Congressman. It's crazy how easily people buy into things because it comes from a supposedly official source.
- fjarlq 15y agoReally? With Congress at less than 10% approval, I would hope the people who are actually concerned enough to call would be less than fully trusting.
- bugsbunnyak 15y agoCongress as an institution has <10% approval, but most individual congressniks will keep on getting re-elected. "All politics is local", etc. It's never "your" congressnik, except in cases of infidelity or some other egregious media-hounded event.
- Zirro 15y agoHopefully, Wikipedia explains on their site that even though it may seem like it's "dead" for now, the battle is far from over.
- larsbot 15y agoTo me, the real lesson from SOPA and PIPA is that the tech industry needs to spend a lot more money bribing (oh, excuse me, lobbying) senators and representatives to counter all the money flowing from the entertainment industry. Also, it's an embarrassment that BOTH of California's senators not only support PIPA, they are listed at co-sponsors.
- bootz15 15y agoAnd to save a few bucks.
- pjama 15y agoCouldn't they just redirect traffic coming from the US? Leave it accessible to the rest of the world!
- outworlder 15y agoNo, because even if the law is something US-specific, its effects (should it pass) are not.
- stephank 15y agoThat's cute, and we 'foreigners' know that. But there's nothing we can do, and to us it's just an annoyance we have to sit out. Note that I otherwise support Wikipedia on this.
- nkassis 15y agoNot true, your government can through diplomatic means have an impact. You could call whomever represents you or even call the US embassy.
- rmc 15y agoNonsense. There are loads of bad US laws (e.g. terrible employment rights, terrible anti-discrimination rights) that the rest of the world, or EU don't copy and aren't affected by. The affects of SOPA passing would probably be a benefit to many countries, since more companies & jobs would come to their juristiction (some countries in EU do this with more favourable corporate tax laws, or look at Switzerland and Cayman Islands with banking laws.)
- dbaupp 15y agoNone of those laws are at all related to censoring the Internet, which is a global network, so non-US citizens using US websites (like Facebook, Youtube, etc) are still affected.
- baddox 15y agoTell that to the UK citizen that's being extradited to the USA for American copyright violations. Also, The Pirate Bay claimed that the 2006 raid on their servers resulted from pressure from the MPAA.
- chadzawistowski 15y agoThey ought to mention PIPA as well as SOPA on the shutdown page.
- paul9290 15y agoWas this article on HN front page not true "SOPA to be shelved.." http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2012_01/putting_sopa_on_a_shelf034765.php http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2012_01/pu... ? If Wikipedia is still going to shut down then I'm not sure about the veracity of that article.
- bad_user 15y ago"Shelved" is not enough - they'll just find a backdoor for it. I don't think they expected such opposition, unlike other laws like the Patriot Act that mostly went unnoticed. But they are just regrouping. It ain't over.
- artursapek 15y agoI'm tired of these acronyms, it got confusing today. Are politicians just trying to smuggle it through under a different name at this point? I can't think of a name from recent events with more negative connotations than SOPA, which seems to be why it was abandoned. Are these anti-SOPA messages worth the cost of downtime at this point?
- Natsu 15y agoWe still need to inform people about the issue and it's better if we're the first people to inform them. Because we know they'll try again later, we need to remain vigilant and prepare for next time. It's much too early to relax. That's exactly what they want us to do.
- artursapek 15y agoWell put
- crazygringo 15y agoCan't they just do a "fake" blackout -- every user's first visit of the day gets blacked out, but with a link to re-enable Wikipedia? I mean, get awareness out, but then still let us read the articles (even with white-on-black text, maybe?)
- DanBC 15y agoNo. The aim is to get people to contact representatives. Wikipedia is an excellent tool for procrastination. You need to remove Wikipedia (and as much of the rest of the WWW as possible) to ensure people actually follow through and call or write their politicians.
- TheSOB88 15y agoIt's just one day. Are you really that reliant on Wikipedia that you can't go a single day without using it? It seems to me a lot of the people against the blackout don't have any long-term reasons why it might be bad, only discomfort.
- intended 15y agoMy previous firm depended on wikipedia. We would often have to get up to speed on very diverse industries and their core metrics overnight, and wikipedia was the first source that was available and easily searched. With the English site black out, this will affect the world far more than just America. As a matter of fact this is probably something that we should study and be prepared for. How do the other data/encyclopedia sites fare during the black out? Is there a real effect, how long does it last? What is the impact on non US visitors? Shouldn't the black ideally focus on people from the States? Heck actually, this will probably offend a lot of people who aren't in the states - Indian sites can easily spin this as cultural propaganda (for example). The more I think about it, the more the point raised higher up in this thread (regarding neutrality) starts bothering me. A complete black out of the English Wikipedia is (hopefully) a once in a life time event. Considering the diversity of people who come to the site and the different cultural baggage everyone brings, this action will have far more repurcussions than just SOPA/PIPA. While time zonal differences should mitigate this effect, the blackout should not affect visitors from countries where SOPA makes little difference.
- aw3c2 15y agoI really wish this was done to globally to protest against internet censorship of any kind instead of being such a US centric thing. It feels shortsighted.
- waldr 15y agoI wonder if SOPA will help unite some of the web big guns, obviously they are teaming up to call out SOPA but maybe this will help develop further relationships and we'll see some partnership projects grow. SOPA could end up doing more good than it does harm, assuming this backlash see's it off.
- joejohnson 15y agoDoes this apply to all wikipedias, or just the english-language wikipedia?
- rmc 15y agoJust English language and globally for english language,
- plainOldText 15y agoI've pledged I'll donate if they protest SOPA and I'll keep my promise. I hope everyone else who has pledged will do the same.
- eurohacker 15y agoold dinosaurs of economy - the old oligarchs tried to crash the internet by SOPA to maintain their crip in society , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9xzXUQLuY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9xzXUQLuY Jay Rockefeller: Internet should have never existed but the new generation does not allow to push themselves aside ...
- EGreg 15y agoWhat's to protest? SOPA is pretty benign now. This just in: The DNS will not be affected. Lamar Smith took it out. And even before, two weeks ago, I posted that only foreign websites which would be prosecuted under US law would possibly be affected by this. So maybe bit.ly and the other URL shorteners would be affected, but that's not a big deal. Before you throw a knee-jerk downvote on this, ask yourself ... are you aware of what the SOPA legislation says NOW? Or is this just inertia from the beginning from SOPA, and you are just against any form of going after foreign sites which host illegal downloads? On a related note, I want to ask ... in the Russian community it's well known that VKontakte has all the songs and you can just listen to them. Does this mean that VK is on the hist list of SOPA? I don't think they care about US advertisers though. What do you guys think?
- burgerbrain 15y ago"only foreign websites which would be prosecuted under US law would possibly be affected by this" "not a big deal." Says you. That is a pretty big fucking deal. EDIT: I've read your submission. Your argument seems to be "ICE already does this, so we might as well let SOPA legitimize it". I hope you can see why most sensible people would find this logic dissatisfying.
- EGreg 15y agoWait, so if a website is located in another country and would be criminally prosecuted had they been running in the USA, then case closed, they should be able to do as they please with the hollywood blockbusters produced in the US? For example they can set up a website which is dedicated to allowing everyone, including US citizens to download movies and songs for free as much as they want? If you say yes, then you are really just against intellectual property protection of any kind, and believe that copyright should be abolished. Because by definition whatever protection the government afford copyright holders, someone can set up an offshore website with an offshore registrar and simply invite US citizens to get everything for free. And they can make money off ads, too :) Or better yet, what about trademark infringement? What about counterfeit goods being sold from offshore websites? Should they stay up and do whatever they want, putting "Rolex" on their fake watches?
- brudgers 15y agoIf SOPA isn't dead, shutting down Wikipedia for a day will kill it because of the degree to which it will raise awareness of the issue among people who don't pay much attention to politics...Wednesday is a school day after all.
- EGreg 15y agoPersonally I think that the OPEN act might be a better idea than SOPA. Why not give the infringing websites a chance to enter US courts and have due process, or face the consequences in, say, a week? This would make it more costly to prosecute them, but also give them a chance to explain themselves. The courts could possibly give another resolution than just ordering the intermediaries to doing business with them. The threat would be the threat of SOPA (which wouldn't include DNS), but it would be only AFTER the foreign corporation has refused to comply with the decision of the US court for a month. And yes, this would mean that all its subsidiaries and websites would be affected at once. It takes time to build a big broadcasting system, so it wouldn't be whack-a-mole, either.
- Karunamon 15y agoBecause "entering US courts" is a prohibitively expensive operation on its own; something that is frequently exploited by corporations to screw with individuals. The concept is called SLAPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLAPP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLAPP). Don't like what someone is doing? Sue them and hope (more often than not correctly) that they don't have the wherewithal to defend themselves.
- EGreg 15y agoITC can do it, as per the OPEN bill. Although to be fair I think SOPA is pretty benign now. I am actually sort of in favor of it as log as it doesn't harm american websites and as long as it doesn't require anyone to make special exceptions in the DNS. Preventing American based advertisers and banks from paying foreign-based sites which would be prosecuted for being egregiously devoted to piracy or trademark infringement, in the united states seems like something we should be able to do, so that Americans' unlimited ability to download hollywood movies from foreign based sites and songs from kontakte is limited. America isn't overstepping its juridiction if it is only legislating what American companies can do. That said, I disagree with the lack of due process in SOPA. I much prefer Issa's bill called OPEN. Issa rightly pointed out that there are better agencies for this than the attorney general's office, such as the ITC. What I want to know is, where are the provisions in SOPA that say you can be thrown in jail for uploading a song? I thought SOPA was just about curtailing distribution of infringing material by foreign websites.
- mikemoka 15y agoEver since I heard about SOPA I hoped that Wikipedia would have done it sometime soon. It worked for Italy as far as I know. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/10/italian-wikipedia-shuts-down-in-protest-of-wiretap-act/246180/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/10/italia...
- innernette 15y agoThe RfC is not closed yet, so there is still time to vote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Actio...
- meta-coder 15y ago1800 Wikipedians have already voted.
- sjwright 15y agoWikipedia's sysadmins should make sure their blackout pages return an HTTP 503 (Service Unavailable) response so that they don't accidentally poison the search engine indexes, which risks causing SERP problems well beyond the protest period.
- frew 15y agoThere's a saying that goes, "If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." In this case, that would be pretty much Google's problem.
- gwern 15y agoIt's just going to be an overrideable div. You could adblock it right now if you wanted, the div ID was already announced somewhere or other.
- neilk 15y agoWe're aware of that, thanks! I explained that to one of our sysadmins and I think we came up with a solution, although I think it will be more like blocking the blackout JS for search engines. I'll double check this is in place tomorrow.
- zerostar07 15y agoCan't they just do it for the US? The english wikipedia is not just for the english-speaking, and it's hell of annoying to have to use google cache for everything... Also why don't they lobby twitter instead? That's the one service congressmen rely on
- mduerksen 15y agoThe train has been stopped, but it's still on track. Time to push it into the other direction and maybe even let it derail spectaculously. But there is more needed than raising awareness with this blackout. This awareness should be exploited (in a good way) appropriately. - We as those that do understand the issue have the responsibility to explain the problem to the majority. I still find it very difficult to effectively reason against censorship, privacy and the like to "normal" people, in words that they can relate to. A few weeks ago I personally accepted that challenge and are training. I thought this thread was a good inspiration: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3425973 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3425973 - Those who speak in public, especially in the mass-media, should not think that they can win a discussion only with arguments, no matter how valid they may be. Please ramp up the rhetoric skills. Alexis Ohanian does not look like he is an expert in PR, so maybe he should be joined by public speakers with experience with hostile (and outright lying) opponents, but he made a very good start, and makes notable progress each time I see him. I know I would be killed out there. Thanks Alexis, and keep it up! I applaud the stand that Wikipedia makes and, being a german, propose that the blackout should not end on English Wikipedia. The USA still is the most influential country in the world, and this fight is international, just as the web is international. Please do not mourn for one day without your favorite sites. Show some solidarity among internet citizens. I am quite happy with the progress that has been made.
- nextparadigms 15y agoI don't know how likely it is that Wikipedia will do it, but it would certainly be nice to blackout globally and send a broad message that they will fight against any kind of Internet censorship, and that the January 18th blackout is a warning for that. It might help reverse the recent international trend in Internet censorship, too, which is no doubt also coordinated by MPAA and RIAA.
- sequoia 15y ago"The USA still is the most influential country in the world, and this fight is international, just as the web is international." As a US citizen, I didn't want to be the one to say this (in response to e.g. https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/158964506209427456 https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/1589645062094274... ) because it might sound arrogant, but seriously, Herr Duerksen is correct: People in Australia, UK, and other non-US places affected by the en.wikipedia blackout can cover their eyes and ears and pretend SOPA doesn't affect them but I think this is a ridiculous stance. Yes, much of the world looks to/points at the US for various speech &c. policies. Furthermore, much of the Anglophone world uses US internet services and products that would likely be affected by SOPA (facebook, youtube, reddit, en.wikipedia, 4chan, etc.). If it passes, SOPA probably will affect you whether you live in Boston or Brisbane. There are many people who seem to hard time grasping the fact that US law applies to US sites, regardless of what country you are in (see: "Google turned off my 10 year old's Gmail even tho I live in the UK and it's a US law!!! US law doesn't govern me!!" <- yes but US does govern Google, which operates out of the US). This fact is a good argument for creating competing services not based in the US (even tho it'd probably be illegal for us 'murkins to use them :/ ).
- rmc 15y agoI wish this was USA only, not for all English Language sites. It might cause a media conversation about how SOPA will put US people, jobs, groups and companies at a disadvantage on the global stage, and might scare US policy makers into thinking that laws like this might be the fall from prominance of the USA. sigh
- logn 15y agoLooks like it's a day of reading Simple English Wikipedia...
- sriramk 15y agoI'm against SOPA as much as the next person here on HN but I disagree with shutting down Wikipedia. Paul Carr wrote a piece today that argues this case well -> see http://pandodaily.com/2012/01/16/dick-costolo-is-right-wikipedias-sopa-blackout-is-a-terrible-idea/ http://pandodaily.com/2012/01/16/dick-costolo-is-right-wikip... Basically, a) Wikipedia's core principle is neutrality. When they strive for neutrality and balance on much more sensitive issues, taking a stance on one particular issue affecting one particular country, you violate that. b) Wikipedia runs on the kindness of strangers, some of whom could potentially be supporting SOPA. It is egregious to spend a month asking for donations on every page and then turn around and deny some of them service. Fundamentally, it is not the job of an open and free repository of human knowledge to take political stances, however harmful and important the topic might be. To those making the point that this threatens the entirety of the internet, that is true. However - The point of being neutral is that you don't get to choose what you're neutral about. - Should Wikipedia shutdown hypothetically over nuclear arms (as an example) - something that could potentially destroy all of humanity? Where do you need to be on the destructiveness scale for Wikipedia to take a stance? I'm not doing as good a job of summarizing this as Paul Carr does - do read his piece.
- jayzee 15y agoYou can't be neutral on a moving train - Howard Zinn
- sriramk 15y agoIf you're implying that some issues encompass everyone and everything and suck people in, it is going to be hard to justify that SOPA meets that bar but something like, say, nuclear disarmament doesn't.
- jayzee 15y agoI am responding to your point (a). Not acting is not being neutral. Not acting is taking a stand.
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- SODaniel 15y agoI hate that I feel this is an 11th hour response. I guess I just don't understand how a 99% community sponsored website with little direct advertising income or large sponsors would drag their feet on the issue. I do understand the 'late to the party, hard to miss' factor, but the opposite could have spurred more action from other sites. Hoping for a quicker response 'next time', but still damn good on you!
- neilk 15y agoWikipedia is not designed around quick action, but eventual consensus. There's even a short name for this idea: NODEADLINE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:There_is_no_deadline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:There_is_no_deadline It's somewhat impressive that they did manage to respond in an agile way, especially over the last week.
- tommorris 15y agoIn a company there is a boss, and s/he can decide what to do. In an online community, there's just people talking and chatting and politicking and all sorts of other stuff. We've been discussing this for weeks, and right up to the 24 hour deadline that the Foundation set, people were saying "we need more time!" Wikipedia's consensus process is slow, organic, bumpy and unpredictable. It's not like you can fire them or bribe them or threaten them with guns (which is basically what businesses and governments can do), you have to work with them as equals. In short: community management and consensus building is hard.
- jemeshsu 15y agoCurious to know if Google and Facebook has taken any stance on SOPA? Especially Google since they always tout themselves as 'the' open web company. From a business perspective, will coming out supporting SOPA and have a similar protest as Wiki help or hurt Google?
- nattyackermann 15y agoSOPA could cripple the internet. I hope this brings awareness to that fact. I shudder at how I and many more others could lose their job over this, as I am working for a US-based online company. This pertains not only to the US, but internationally as well. eWeek stated, "The language of SOPA is so broad, the rules so unconnected to the reality of Internet technology and the penalties so disconnected from the alleged crimes that this bill could effectively kill e-commerce or even normal Internet use. The bill also has grave implications for existing U.S., foreign and international laws and is sure to spend decades in court challenges."
- zerop 15y agoWikipedia shutting down is not good news..Its very useful and needed everyday...May be they can make the each page load delayed by 1 minute or so to mark the protest....
- LoneWolf 15y agoI agree with you, I needed to read some articles for quick information reminder but I CANT. While I agree that SOPA/PIPA should not be passed, and that the protest may be a good way to show everyone disagrees, closing the websites like this is pretty bad for the users I think they should allow people to read the articles.
- mkr-hn 15y agoReminder: http://code.google.com/p/offline-wiki/ http://code.google.com/p/offline-wiki/ For people who lack the inclination to download Wikipedia.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]