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Are they? 300,000 units * $30 = $9M - 30% Steam tax = $6.3M in a single year take out federal taxes (just gonna call it 36% and ignore SFJ/MFJ), leaves them abo
by datalopers 4y ago
Are they? 300,000 units * $30 = $9M - 30% Steam tax = $6.3M in a single year take out federal taxes (just gonna call it 36% and ignore SFJ/MFJ), leaves them about $2M each. I'm sure they're some sort of a legal entity in WA state and will owe the b&o tax too.
They deserve it absolutely but $2M each does not put them in a position of "fuck you" [1].
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Arrath 4y agoI also read, though who knows whether the source was at all accurate, that after the Steam cut, Kitfox takes a goodly chunk (north of 50% IIRC) out until their own expenses for development are paid, and then their cut ratchets down to 20% or so.
- datalopers 4y agoOh, I didn't realize they had a publisher involved too. Yeah, this is a nice payday but it's just a start before it's life-changing for these two hackers. Let's see another 300k in sales!
- bombcar 4y agoPeople who want to support Tarn and Zach but don't want to buy the game can "donate" directly: http://www.bay12games.com/support.html http://www.bay12games.com/support.html
- wolfram74 4y agoI was 5$ a month patron for a few years.
- DonHopkins 4y agoOr who thought they deserve more than their game cost! I just sent them $100 on top of the $30 I spent on the game.
- bombcar 4y agoI was lucky enough to contribute back when you still got ascii art rewards (memoralized here: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/ASCII_art_reward/A-F#Bombcar https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/ASCII_art_reward/A-F... ) - and somewhere I have a crayon drawing.
- Arrath 4y agoSame! Was well past due to give them another infusion.
- ericd 4y agoIt’s on a million wishlists, and this game is evergreen, it’s going to get there.
- stock_toaster 4y agoOnce macos and linux support drip, I imagine there will be a new wave of sales too.
- lyu07282 4y agoIt already works flawlessly in linux with proton, literally two clicks to enable compatability mode
- TacticalCoder 4y agoThat's 300 000 units in 7 days since launch if I understand it correctly. Even if we consider (I don't know if that's true or not), that theses 7 days are going to be the best ever for them that's still only 7 days.
- datalopers 4y agoWeek1 sales is a decent predictor [1] of Year1 revenue. They'll probably do about 1M unit sales by Christmas 2023. [1] https://newsletter.gamediscover.co/p/steam-the-state-of-long-tail-revenue https://newsletter.gamediscover.co/p/steam-the-state-of-long...
- glandium 4y agoDF is quite special though. It has existed for two decades before being for sale on Steam. It's also a very niche-y game. I don't think normal rules apply to it. I'm afraid sales are going to drop much quicker than predictions say.
- cableshaft 4y agoThey'll get a sale from me here before too long. I just know I don't have time for another addiction right now, at least not until the new year. Probably quite a few people being more frugal now because of the holidays that will buy it shortly after. Wouldn't be surprised if it's 500k+ sales by the end of January.
- opportune 4y agoIf they’re smart they hopefully have incorporated and will only need to take money out of the corporation to pay themselves to cover their expenses. So they won’t pay tax on the full amount up front and will have most of the money pretax for future business expenses
- count 4y agoI would guess Steam will only distribute games from companies for legal reasons...so most likely, yes.
- wintogreen74 4y agoThat's not how corporate income tax works though; the company pays taxes on all that sales income less expenses, and then they would likely take dividends at a preferential tax rate and pay yet some more tax. I doubt they've been carrying much of a loss over the past 20+ years to offset this.
- datalopers 4y agoIt would take 20 years to pull it off, and tax legislation may change, but a married couple can earn next year ~$115k/yr federally tax-free ($89k long-term cap gains + $27k earned income). So that source of income would only be subject to the initial 20% corporate tax.
- ghiculescu 4y ago
- bulbosaur123 4y agoThey should incorporate an LLC and do some legal loopholes to keep more of that $$$
- theptip 4y ago$2m in the bank is enough to easily draw $100k/yr from interest, which fits the GP’s “set for life if we make wise choices” IMO. That is way above median income in wealthy countries. Assuming you don’t try to live in SF!
- thomaslangston 4y agoThat's using a 5 percent withdrawal rate. A 4 or even 3 percent withdrawal rate is more likely to be sustainable. Those are also rates I see suggested more commonly on retirement planning sites.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoYou are assuming no compounding. You have to model it as an annuity.
- ghaff 4y agoIf you're assuming withdrawing at a safe withdrawal rate you're assuming you're not compounding. You're assuming a safe withdrawal rate from principal/dividends/interest that will, on average, leave the principal constant. Of course, if you're older and are not looking to pass down money you may be fine with drawing down principal to some degree. So, yes, $2m should probably be modeled at about $80K income per year before taxes without touching principal but without building savings. (May be somewhat higher with higher interest rates/inflation.)
- fnordpiglet 4y agoI said an annuity. An annuity would draw the principal down as well, and you generally make a drawdown assumption that leaves you with some safe margin for extended life and maybe some inheritance.
- treewalking 4y agoIf you model it as a lifetime annuity with inflation adjustment you are looking at more like 50k/year income at the outset were you to buy today. My understanding is that annuities provide in general a worse return than the so called 4% rule on average.
- gscott 4y agoThey seem to live on 30k to 50k a year so even if they double their expenses they are ok.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago2m each is not "Fuck you" money perhaps but it is enough to comfortably retire to the original post point. It depends on lifestyle you desire but if I could retire tomorrow, I would make that lifestyle work.
- travisjungroth 4y ago> 2m each is not "Fuck you" money perhaps but it is enough to comfortably retire That is exactly what "fuck you" money means. It's not about having so much money you couldn't possibly want for anything. People will always want. It's about having enough that you're not beholden to anyone for your basic needs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjKP8vYjpQ&ab_channel=YoutubeVideos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjKP8vYjpQ&ab_channel=Youtu...
- ghaff 4y agoWell, yes. It depends on what your requirements are. For some people ~$80K/year without benefits isn't what they're looking for to coast through life.
- travisjungroth 4y agoI recommend watching the clip if you haven't. It doesn't that you actually go an retire, it means that you can.
- ghaff 4y agoI'm not sure how that contradicts what I wrote. It's above US median income, albeit without benefits. So, it's of course reasonable for someone to decide they don't need to work any longer with that income stream while others may feel differently.
- travisjungroth 4y agoAt least for what I'm saying, it's not that someone would "decide they don't need to work any longer". This is what contradicts what you're saying. It is about significantly improving your economic baseline, your p90 negative outcome. You can be making a million dollars a year and still be needy as hell. You need to keep your job, need to your investments stay up, need interest rates to stay down. If you're leveraged, there's a decent chance you'll go broke on a long enough timeline. And you'll always be partly aware of it. Your baseline is getting a job you hate so you don't go homeless. If you have 2 million in the bank and don't leverage too hard, your baseline is being the average American while working 0 hours a week. You can do that until you figure out whatever is next, instead of sending out resumes.
- ajmurmann 4y agoThe article also mentioned money going to other people working on the game. Unclear how's much that is though. Edit: this also touches on a grievance I have with progressive taxation and annualized retirement savings. These guys might have been in a Lowe tax bracket for many years and be back in a low tax bracket depending on how sales go over the years. The one time they hit it home they are in the top tax bracket and can only max out tax advantages from retirement contributions for that one year. They'd be in a much better position in this regard of their income was spread out. The entire system is build assuming people earn pretty much the same year to year. Same for other self-funded founders with exits.
- datalopers 4y agoWould be nice if you earned a 401(k) credit/allowance each year so when you do hit it big you can rapidly play catch-up on the past 20 years or whatever.
- cableshaft 4y ago> Would be nice if you earned a 401(k) credit/allowance each year so when you do hit it big you can rapidly play catch-up on the past 20 years or whatever. No kidding. I spent most of my 20s and part of my 30s working for companies without a 401k (several small startups or video game studios). I'd love to put in more than the max now to make up for it, but have to make do with just buying stocks without the tax advantage. I think that if you're considered 'behind' for your current salary and age, especially significantly so (I bet a bunch of people here, even those 10 years younger than me, probably have 5-10x more in their 401k than I do), there really shouldn't be much of a cap on what you can put into your 401k. Like the cap should just be a max total you can have in there based on your age, not a cap per year.
- happyopossum 4y agoThey could easily set up a corporation and pay themselves over 10-20 years to avoid a windfall (and max out tax advantages over multiple years) if that’s the goal…
- krzyk 4y agoAnd publisher also needs a cut.