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The end of AM radio in your car?
- guywithahat 4y agoThis is the most interestingly line from his letter: > nearly 90 percent of Americans ages 12 and older — totaling hundreds of millions of people — listened to AM or FM radio each week, higher than the percentage that watch television (56 percent) or own a computer (77 percent) Admittedly it seems dubious but if true I'm surprised by basically every one of these numbers
- sempron64 4y agoAll this requires to be true is that basically all Americans who are in a car weekly turn on the radio when driving, which is very believable. Some people also still have a radio in the kitchen of course.
- LeifCarrotson 4y agoIs it? It's been years since I, most of my family, or my coworkers have turned on the radio (for non-Bluetooth audio)...my aging FIL insisted on it during a trip back in August (to much good-natured ribbing from his kids) but that's the last time I remember.
- t-3 4y agoI do. There is local news on the radio that's hard to get anywhere else (OK, it's probably also broadcast via internet somewhere, but I'd rather not go through the hassle). It's also a inoffensive way to lessen the monotony when working in jobs dealing with the public (ie, minding a shop).
- brewdad 4y agoReally? You go through the trouble of hooking up your phone and starting your favorite app on a 5 minute run to the grocery store rather than just letting the radio be background noise? I totally get doing that for longer trips but so many of my trips are short enough they could be done on foot or by bike if my area was more friendly to that sort of thing. Radio does the job for the few minutes I'll be in the car.
- bears-n-beets 4y agoI have to go more out of my way to turn on the radio in my car than I do to connect to Spotify. When I get in my car I plug my phone into the USB cable reflexively and Spotify starts up automatically. I’d have to fumble around with the settings on my infotainment system to even find the radio option (Mazda 3 2020).
- kalleboo 4y agoThe phone automatically connects to the car and all I have to do is press play on the car touchscreen. Don't even have to take the phone out of my pocket.
- toss1 4y agoNote the "listened to AM OR FM radio each week", emphasis on the "or". I can't say how long it has been since I checked the AM dial while driving (basically hit it by accident), but years it he most appropriate unit. What I heard (northeastern US) seemed to support some data I read that it is mostly taken over by religious and Limbaugh-type right-wing talk radio. So, that strongly left- Sen. Markey is supporting it so strongly says something. But, if there are actually high listener ship, then for sure, it could be a critical emergency communications channel, and worthwhile just for that
- water8 4y ago[dead]
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoJust an example: In Seattle, the #2 rated station last month was KIRO-AM 710. Sports play-by-play and local sports talk performs really well on AM [1]. In the same ratings book, the religious and right-wing talk radio on AM continued with a poor performance. I think that generally content is more important than the technology delivering the audio (although probably anything would perform better to at least some extent on FM). [1] <https://radioinsight.com/ratings/seattle-tacoma/ https://radioinsight.com/ratings/seattle-tacoma/>
- splitstud 4y ago
- StanislavPetrov 4y agoHere in NY I regularly tune into AM for news/traffic reports and sports events.
- uni_rule 4y ago1010 still gets the job done ages later, shame they changed all the sounds to more generic ones though.
- 4y ago
- andirk 4y agoI wonder what "watch television" means these days. I don't know many people who have broadcast or cable TV.
- blacksmith_tb 4y agoTrending down slowly, but still 40% of US households: https://www.statista.com/statistics/612660/paid-services-broadcast-vod-programming-north-america/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/612660/paid-services-bro...
- andirk 4y agoWhat is historically the highest % of US households with TV? (Paywall. And that is the most aggressive form I've ever battled.)
- blacksmith_tb 4y agoHmm, I guess my mass of adblocking extensions in FF must work pretty well, I had to dismiss a single modal. But it looks like Peak TV was reached by about 1980[1], 98% of households! 1: https://www.americancentury.omeka.wlu.edu/items/show/136 https://www.americancentury.omeka.wlu.edu/items/show/136
- ilyt 4y agoBasically "old people" https://www.statista.com/statistics/659779/cable-tv-penetration-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/659779/cable-tv-penetrat...
- StanislavPetrov 4y agoIt seems reasonable to include things like FUBO, which offer both broadcast and TV channels.
- uni_rule 4y agoI am still surprised how relatively few people have a set of rabbit ears wired to their "streaming" TVs for basic news or whatever in the current year considering how cheap they are.
- r00fus 4y agoDoes it count those instances where my Ford randomly plays FM radio (sometimes even randomly AM) before I managed to connect BT/Carplay or if that either of those happen to disconnect? Because that's about the limit of my usage of any terrestrial radio.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoYou may listen more than you think. Also counted is in-store (and in-restaurant) listening. That's the main reason why so many stations go with all-Christmas music formats. Most independently owned retail and eating establishments also qualify for a copyright infringement exemption if they play music originated by a radio or television broadcast station licensed by the FCC [1]. [1] 17 US Code §110(5) <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/110 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/110>
- cwkoss 4y agoNo way that's true. Wonder if they're getting selection bias, ex. the 90% of the people who are willing to take an unsolicited survey on their land line phone.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoI can't back up the 90%-of-people claim, but as per the industry-accepted audio listening diary survey, a giant 74% share of audio consumption comes from AM/FM broadcasters [1]. So 90 percent is very possible. [1] <https://www.westwoodone.com/blog/2022/11/21/edisons-share-of-ear-q3-2022-am-fm-radio-streaming-listening-surges-now-20-bigger-than-ad-supported-spotify-and-pandora-combined-and-podcast-audiences-explode/ https://www.westwoodone.com/blog/2022/11/21/edisons-share-of...>
- mikequinlan 4y agoI got a diary from Nielson for radio stations I listened to. I never listen to radio so I entered the stations and programs I wanted to be successful, rather than the ones I was listening to (since I wasn't listening to any of them). (so NPR and the local public radio station got a little boost).
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoYeah, there was a lot of "vote for your favorite station" activity when the Arbitron/Nielson diary was used as the main system. I was working at a station when they switched from diary to the electronic PPM system. The station's cumulative numbers jumped 3-fold that month-- we had no idea that many people were listening.
- dctoedt 4y agoAM radio broadcasts can reach somewhat farther than FM (and way farther at night on clear channels); that might matter in an emergency. As a middle-schooler living in the Washington DC area, I would regularly pick up WLS in Chicago, some 700 miles away, on my little crystal set at night.
- olyjohn 4y agoFrom the Portland area, I could pick up KGO from San Fransisco at night. Never cared for the content as a kid, but it was still fascinating!
- tjohns 4y agoIf you're not familiar with the term, look up "clear-channel station". (Not to be confused with the advertising company of the same name.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Station-Albums/WSM/Clear-Channel-KFI-Early-60s.pdf https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Station-Albums/WSM/Cle... Stations like KGO receive special status to protect against interference, and in return are required to transmit 10,000 Watts minimum. Most transmit at 50,000 Watts. The idea was to make sure even the most remote parts of the country with no local stations would be able to receive one of the clear-channel stations at night.
- quickthrower2 4y agoA crystal set needs no battery power, the signal is enough to power the audio. I had fun making one with those 20 in 1 electronics toys as a kid. I think that one didn't tune so you heard multiple stations at once.
- dredmorbius 4y agoThere are various kinds of crystal sets. I don't know the theory, though I did make one as a child. It was the non-tuning type, and would pull in only the strongest-broadcasting local AM channel. It's also possible to create a tuner which can pull in a specific station (or more accurately: frequency). These can also operate without a battery, though battery-powered radio is of course more versatile.
- cschneid 4y ago> The AM band in the United States covers frequencies from 540 kHz up to 1700 kHz I wonder if there's something useful to do with that range. It's a big chunk of lower frequencies right there, in the range that reliably does over-the-horizon propagation (although better at night perhaps according to wikipedia?) The benefit of AM being super simple to build a receiver for is less relevant nowadays, FM is trivial to get radios for now, and ham radio uses SSB for voice for the most part in the lower frequency ranges.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoI'd bet that most would conclude that the best use for those frequencies is broadcast. In Seattle, half a million people listened to KIRO-AM 710 last month [1]. In Boston, 454,600 people listened to WBZ-AM 1030 [2]. In Los Angeles, 625,500 people listened to KFI-AM 640 [3]. It's difficult to justify discontinuing an audio service that is performing as a top conduit for audio (more than Spotify or Pandora, for example) because of a perception that the service is no longer viable. [1] <https://radioinsight.com/ratings/seattle-tacoma/ https://radioinsight.com/ratings/seattle-tacoma/> [2] <https://radioinsight.com/ratings/boston/ https://radioinsight.com/ratings/boston/> [3] <https://radioinsight.com/ratings/los-angeles/ https://radioinsight.com/ratings/los-angeles/>
- RF_Savage 4y agoThe only real use I'd see would be some new iteration of Loran-C, to have something harder to jamm and spoof then current GNSS systems. But the local noise from car and other electronics would likely make it less useful.
- perilunar 4y ago> I wonder if there's something useful to do with that range. Non-directional beacons! In Nth America NDBs are 190–535 kHz, but elsewhere they are 190–1750 kHz, overlapping the AM radio band. Keep decommissioning the more expensive VOR stations in favour of satnav (and release the spectrum), but keep NDB transmitters as a low-tech/low-cost backup.
- stu2010 4y agoI haven't seen much discussion about how AM gets used for local road condition or emergency communication. When you're driving and see a sign that says "TUNE TO 1610 AM" and the car has no AM receiver, what do you do? This may be a shrinking niche, but it's potentially a last bastion of AM radio usefulness.
- aidenn0 4y agoWhat about sports broadcasts? I often listen to games in my car on AM.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoAs do many people. AM stations that run play-by-play sports programming do very well in the ratings, and do very well with the station's sales team.
- freedomben 4y agoThe skill of the broadcast announcers is remarkable. They paint the scene with audio-only in an amazing way. My father (and my grandfather before him) takes a little battery-powered AM radio with him to games (football, baseball, etc) and listen to it while watching the game live. They've even muted the TV and used TV picture with radio sound to get a better experience. That makes it easy to take naps and close your eyes without missing key parts of the game.
- vikingerik 4y agoOne thing that makes a radio-TV combination work less well nowadays is latency in the TV feed. Running 15 to 20 seconds or even more behind the radio is not uncommon with all the processing and distribution layers that go on with a modern video feed. I've heard of setups where someone plugs a radio receiver into a computer with software to buffer and apply the same delay.
- 4y ago
- audiofish 4y agoAM radio is a pretty poor standard considering how much power and bandwidth it uses, due much to the very limited modulation technology available in the 1920s. DRM (no not that DRM--Digital Radio Mondiale) is a modern digital standard that promises much better spectral efficiency, power efficiency and range. See https://www.drm.org/ https://www.drm.org/. It is similar in concept to DAB, using an OFDM carrier, but with more robust error correction and equalisation, and lower bit rate codec to handle larger broadcast areas. There is a hope that this could upgrade existing AM broadcast infrastructure, allowing rapid coverage of large areas without the expense of building out new towers. The MW/HF bands are great for coverage because of the longer wavelength, relative to the VHF bands used for FM and DAB.
- no-dr-onboard 4y agoWhat a shame. I've lived in a rural areas for most of my adult life. FM reception is notoriously poor due to the terrain. AM repeaters were always a nice touch. Also worth noting that AM radio content is absurdly easy to support and transmit.
- eternityforest 4y agoI doubt AM is easy to transmit in practice. Complicated modulation schemes cost almost nothing, but high power is still expensive and needs real engineering. It might be easier on a DIY level, but on a commercial level complexity is free, substance and power are expensive.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoAM transmissions (10 kHz) are relatively narrow compared to other broadcast formats, so the power bill is less than FM (200 kHz) and TV (6000 kHz). The real cost problem in 2022 is the size of the antenna. The entire tower, or array of towers, is the antenna. They can take up many acres of land. It is hard to justify not selling out and replacing those towers with more lucrative residential, retail or industrial development. A single station's antenna could be 5 properly spaced towers, each hundreds of feet high.
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoIt's a notable argument you bring up that AM stations are sometimes the only audio service available in remote areas. The characteristics of AM (i.e., daytime groundwave and nighttime skywave) provide service that other services can not.
- JKCalhoun 4y agoAM content absurdly easy to receive for; that's for sure.
- asdefghyk 4y agoRE " ....That crackle apparently just doesn't fly with luxury auto brands. BMW spokesperson Rebecca Kiehne told me, "Electric motors cause interference on AM which is why BMW decided to remove this option. While it could be offered, BMW's performance standards are very high and we don't offer a product that meets less than those high standards."...." Apparently BMW *high standards do not extend to removing EMI* that interferes with AM. It could be done if they really wanted too.
- progman32 4y agoI've toggled the software switch to re enable AM radio in my 2014 i3 electric. Seems to work fine.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mgkuhn 4y agoWhat exactly does he technically want to preserve? Does he really care about amplitude modulation? Or does he care about the frequency band (medium wave, HF) and its propagation properties? Or does he care bout the geographic reach of these stations? Amplitude modulation is a historically important technology, because it was technically very simple to receive in the early history of radio, and because it was more bandwidth-efficient than FM. But it remains utterly badly suited for mobile reception, because it is highly sensitive for multi-path interference (unlike FM). We have now far better modern, digital modulation schemes, including DAB and DVB-T2 for VHF and DRM for long, medium, and short-wave transmission. They provide (thanks to OFDM) much better audio quality and interference resistance than the old analogue modulation schemes, and they are also far more power efficient, which substantially reduces the enormous electricity bills of the transmitter stations. They also are very bandwidth efficient, and can be used in single-frequency networks.
- jejones3141 4y agoAgreed about digital modulation, but I recall hearing multipath a lot more on FM, or perhaps it was just more obnoxious there. Traveling around large buildings or under a metal bridge would bring that familiar rapid flutter as the car moved through places where the reflections would reinforce and cancel. (You can drive through a lot more wavelengths per unit time for FM than AM.)
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoI find it funny... here people are afraid their clients (cars) will lose AM support, and in europe, we feer the very-soon coming date when our governments will shut down FM radio, leaving a bunch of cars (those without DAB radios) musicless or tied to some kind of mobile phone connected to AUX ports situation.
- chha 4y agoOr as they say: Welcome to Norway! [1] [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/13/norway-becomes-first-country-to-end-national-radio-broadcasts-on-fm https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/13/norway-becomes...
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoAre you from norway? I'm guessing you had a mandate that all new cars need to have DAB receivers.. when did that come in action? Because here in slovenia, you could still buy a new car without DAB just a few years ago. Basically, i'm just wandering if all your cars sold in the last 10+ years already have dab (by mandate) and the turn-off wasn't a real pain for most, or if like 80%+ of your cars on the street just lost radio reception?
- vjulian 4y agoMy favourite radio ever is AM 740 in the Boston area— WJIB, a listener-supported station broadcasting hits from the late 30s to 70s easy listening. Where else in broadcast these days can one expect to listen to the Dorsey Brothers, Glenn Miller, or Herb Alpert and his Tijuana Brass in the original AM sound? Good music for the soul.
- kmbfjr 4y agoSurprised the FCC has not stepped on EV manufacturers for the RFI they create. They won’t just interfere with medium wave broadcast.
- bilsbie 4y agoIt would be so cool to release AM back to the public. Maybe a longer range, low bandwidth Wi-Fi like protocol.
- BenjiWiebe 4y agoIt wouldn't be a WiFi-like protocol. Higher noise floor, major issues with interference with your neighbor (even beyond line of sight), a total of ~1/20th the bandwidth of a single narrow WiFi channel, and antenna size needing to be many orders of magnitude larger than for 2.4/5Ghz WiFi.
- windows2020 4y agoAfter a recent hurricane decimated our area, a battery powered emergency AM radio was, for some time, the only source of information available. Communication resiliency shouldn't be decreased without good reason.
- jhallenworld 4y agoAM needs better content. Where are the podcast channels? I think it would be cheap to set up a station that just rebroadcasts podcasts.
- scelerat 4y ago> Markey cited statistics from the Pew Research Center News Platform Fact Sheet from September 2022 which said 47% of Americans receive their news from the radio. I believe that explains quite a bit. Without being snarky, AM radio is home to political opinion that is largely sympathetic to a conservative viewpoint and I suspect that is one reason that Markey wants car manufacturers to keep it (and why perhaps other lawmakers would be indifferent or even eager to see it disappear) Not an adherent to the views commonly espoused on AM talk radio, I nevertheless see the utility for some kind of low-tech broadcast format which is easy and inexpensive to tune in and broadcast over. AM fits the bill, and has much longer range than FM
- RF_Enthusiast 4y agoOne of the reasons why this story has gotten traction is because Ed Markey is considered a progressive and is a member of the Democratic Party. Generally, progressive Democrats don't have an interest in content that is sympathetic to a conservative viewpoint. Also, to your second point, due to the size of the antennas required, AM is very expensive to broadcast over unless you're using an inefficient antenna. The shortest quarter wavelength antenna (at 1700 kHz) would be 137 feet high. An AM (medium wave) array would take up acres of land.
- zzo38computer 4y agoI still listen to AM radio (the CBC). (I mainly listen in the home, not in the car, because I do not have a car or a driving license; however, sometimes when going with someone else in the car, I can listen to radio.) We need AM radio. AM radio is simple. It is better than having an overly complicated and badly made digital radio needing licensing and difficulty of implementation etc.