8 ms·

Staying in Zumthor's Swiss Wooden Cabin

45 points by abhv 4y ago

michaelbenjamin 4y ago
beautiful pictures! sounds isolated but that's part of the appeal I guess. interesting that it isn't better known given how famous Zumthor is, thanks for your post!
galfarragem 4y ago
Architect here. An analogy: staying in an (artist) architect house is like having a meal in a Michelin restaurant.
- abhv 4y ago
  +1 even more so, because I could see the small flaws and gaps that Zumthor may tolerate in a personal dwelling, but may not fly in large-scale projects. Lesson for me: perfection isn't necessary for the experiences I want from exceptional architecture.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Wouldn't it be more like Thomas Keller cooking you whatever he is having on a random Thursday night? Executed with style, but not overbearingly perfect like one might expect from a 3 Michelin star restaurant.
cinntaile 4y ago
Pricey for a wooden cabin... 3100 CHF ~ 3100 euro for a week during low season for the 2 cheapest cabins.
- abhv 4y ago
  low season, long weekend, 1850chf. We are a family of 5, and in Switzerland, that means 2 hotel rooms x 3 nights. Staying in Zumthor's cabin is certainly a splurge, but marginal utility of staying in a special place well exceeds marginal costs. Also, if you are irrationally nostalgic like me, the renting experience felt like how airbnb felt in 2011...before all the bad experiences which have swamped it in the last 5yrs
ggambetta 4y ago
Peter Zumthor is one of my favorite architects <3 Therme Vals is just spectacular [0]. Zumthor is all about plain surfaces and 90 degree angles (maybe he used the Wolfenstein 3D editor to make his plans?) but somehow Therme Vals feels like being in an underwater cavern. I don't know if I'd live in a house designed by him (although the author of this article seemed to love it). Might be too minimalistic -- thinking of the Kunsthaus in Bregenz for example. Of course this cabin is made of wood, not concrete. But in terms of a house that feels like a home, I'd go with Alvar Aalto; his designs ooze cozyness in a way that Zumthor's don't, and for a famous architect, they feel surprisingly pragmatic and sensible :) [0] https://7132.com/en/therme/thermal-baths-and-spa/overview https://7132.com/en/therme/thermal-baths-and-spa/overview
- CaptainZapp 4y ago
  The problem with the Felsentherme is that it was sold off to an investor, who intentionally wanted to make it exclusively available to well heeled hotel guests. While you can still visit it as a non-guest you need to reserve in advance and prices are 60 francs (~60$) on Monday / Tuesday and 80 francs on other days. Even though Switzerland is an expensive country such prices for a spa visit without any extras are beyond the outrageous.
  - ggambetta 4y ago
    Hmmm just checked Hürlimann Spa in Zürich and the day pass is CHF 39, so CHF 60 for Therme Vals doesn't look outrageous at all? Are we even talking about the same complex? Felsentherme is in Austria, apparently?
  - lobochrome 4y ago
    In Switzerland everything is expensive, but it is still worth it even at 60 francs. The poster has a point, though, in that after the sale the vibe changed. The connected hotel used to be reasonably priced for their smaller cabins/rooms to stay the night after a soak in the Therme. Now the entire Hotel is focused on Chinese/middle-eastern wealth clients. They even have (or at least used to last time I checked ~2019) free helicopter pickup within Switzerland if you stay there (as if heli traffic in the valleys wasn't annoying enough already). I used to go there after hiking in the mountains for a couple of days, and it was a fantastic cap to a short excursion into nature, spent without showers in mountain huts. It's just not possible anymore - and apparently not desired by the new owner.
cassepipe 4y ago
I am disappointed there's no mention of energy management/insulation. Seems even more relevant for a high altitude cabin, living far away from civilization. What's its impact on its environment? For the price of the stay for a week, I would expect something clever on that aspect of the building.
- galfarragem 4y ago
  It's a wood plancks cabin with rockwool insulation in the middle of the wall. I believe central heating works via wood burn.
- ThePadawan 4y ago
  It might not seem like that to the author. This cabin is at ~1500 meters of altitude, in a village with a road and several other buildings. For rural Switzerland, that's not living far away from civilization - that's just living in civilization. I would even assume you get normal postal service like every other place in Switzerland not separated from the outside world by cable car. I'm sure it's worth investigating about the architecture of e.g. the huts of the Swiss Alpine Club [0]. These are up there in the ~3000 meters range, only accessible by multi-hour hikes and only seasonally maintained. German-language Wikipedia has a great lot of information and pictures [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Alpine_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Alpine_Club [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_H%C3%BCtten_des_Schweizer_Alpen-Clubs https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_H%C3%BCtten_des_Schw...
  - abhv 4y ago
    I totally agree with you. The hutli experience is also very special for different reasons.
snickmy 4y ago
For the architect / construction engineers out there. I'm always a bit concerned where I see those wood projects I really wonder about two aspects: 1- thermal conductivity. How well isolated can they be when you have full beams of wood with one side outside and one inside. 2- durability. I really appreciate wood for SOOO many properties, but what is really the realistic durability of woods? from an ecstatic standpoint, from a maintance standpoint (do I need to regularly treat it), and from a functional standpoint (what happen with heavy duty use)? Would love some inform opinion
- abhv 4y ago
  1-- First snow of the season occurred our first night. My memory is that the walls never felt cold. We started a fire using that granite cylinder fireplace. You pack it with about 12 logs, light it and then shut the door tightly. It burns the wood efficiently over several hours and then continues to radiate ten+ hours of heat into the house. Overall: very comfortable. I think the beams were 6" of solid wood. 2-- Alpine woods are incredible. The table top in that picture was unfinished. The instructions of the house say that if you spill something, you just wipe it off with a damp rag. I was terrified of eating fondue or jam-and-bread with my kids there, thinking we would mess up his table. Fact is: we did have spaghetti and spilled sauce, and the damp rag treatment didn't leave any stains. Zumthor also seems to have a big family and there is evidence his grandchildren operate like normal kids in that place. My son gave me a wooden box carved from alpine wood, and the maker intentionally kept it unfinished. The maker told me that the oils in the alpine wood provide a natural protection; +1 yr later and that box sits in our kitchen holding salt. It has developed a natural patina despite lots of mid-sautee grabs, opens, and pinches. TLDR: like cedar, ipe, and other special woods, I think the wood used to build this house will last a long time in that natural environment.
  - snickmy 4y ago
    Fascinating. thank you for sharing
- johnofthesea 4y ago
  1- Those beams under the roof on the picture are not part of the interior. There is probably some insulation between construction and outside cladding. There is also some in-between construction. 2- If outside is painted it needs to be repainted at some point. There are also untreated facades or facades treated with fire [0]. Untreated wooden facade must have air gap behind to prevent rot. In case of untreated wood - color and shape is not stable. But in case of facade this is not issue. Structural elements and window/door frames should be treated though. [0]: ie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakisugi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakisugi
dpatru 4y ago
The cabin’s webpage is here: https://zumthorferienhaeuser.ch/m/en/homes/oberhus https://zumthorferienhaeuser.ch/m/en/homes/oberhus It shows the floor plan.
huhtenberg 4y ago
In related news, the Villa Vals featured on Netflix Most Extraordinary Homes series (with a hobbit-like circular facade, dug into the steep slope with an access tunnel) is also available for rent https://www.villavals.ch/ https://www.villavals.ch/ Also remote as heck, rented for several days at a time and with pretty much nothing to do there, but eat. Fantastic build though.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zkdev 4y ago
What is there to do in a small Swiss village with no shops?
- lajosbacs 4y ago
  No shops is a feature.
- lm28469 4y ago
  Your version of hell is my version of paradise.
- abhv 4y ago
  Hiking, skiing, exploring. Some people still raise goats, sheep, animals in the high mountain country. They make exquisite local cheese from the milk.

45 points by abhv 4y ago

beautiful pictures! sounds isolated but that's part of the appeal I guess. interesting that it isn't better known given how famous Zumthor is, thanks for your post!

galfarragem 4y ago

Architect here. An analogy: staying in an (artist) architect house is like having a meal in a Michelin restaurant.

abhv 4y ago
+1 even more so, because I could see the small flaws and gaps that Zumthor may tolerate in a personal dwelling, but may not fly in large-scale projects. Lesson for me: perfection isn't necessary for the experiences I want from exceptional architecture.
googlryas 4y ago
Wouldn't it be more like Thomas Keller cooking you whatever he is having on a random Thursday night? Executed with style, but not overbearingly perfect like one might expect from a 3 Michelin star restaurant.

cinntaile 4y ago

Pricey for a wooden cabin... 3100 CHF ~ 3100 euro for a week during low season for the 2 cheapest cabins.

abhv 4y ago
low season, long weekend, 1850chf. We are a family of 5, and in Switzerland, that means 2 hotel rooms x 3 nights. Staying in Zumthor's cabin is certainly a splurge, but marginal utility of staying in a special place well exceeds marginal costs. Also, if you are irrationally nostalgic like me, the renting experience felt like how airbnb felt in 2011...before all the bad experiences which have swamped it in the last 5yrs

ggambetta 4y ago

Peter Zumthor is one of my favorite architects <3 Therme Vals is just spectacular [0]. Zumthor is all about plain surfaces and 90 degree angles (maybe he used the Wolfenstein 3D editor to make his plans?) but somehow Therme Vals feels like being in an underwater cavern. I don't know if I'd live in a house designed by him (although the author of this article seemed to love it). Might be too minimalistic -- thinking of the Kunsthaus in Bregenz for example. Of course this cabin is made of wood, not concrete. But in terms of a house that feels like a home, I'd go with Alvar Aalto; his designs ooze cozyness in a way that Zumthor's don't, and for a famous architect, they feel surprisingly pragmatic and sensible :) [0] https://7132.com/en/therme/thermal-baths-and-spa/overview https://7132.com/en/therme/thermal-baths-and-spa/overview

CaptainZapp 4y ago
The problem with the Felsentherme is that it was sold off to an investor, who intentionally wanted to make it exclusively available to well heeled hotel guests. While you can still visit it as a non-guest you need to reserve in advance and prices are 60 francs (~60$) on Monday / Tuesday and 80 francs on other days. Even though Switzerland is an expensive country such prices for a spa visit without any extras are beyond the outrageous.
- ggambetta 4y ago
  Hmmm just checked Hürlimann Spa in Zürich and the day pass is CHF 39, so CHF 60 for Therme Vals doesn't look outrageous at all? Are we even talking about the same complex? Felsentherme is in Austria, apparently?
- lobochrome 4y ago
  In Switzerland everything is expensive, but it is still worth it even at 60 francs. The poster has a point, though, in that after the sale the vibe changed. The connected hotel used to be reasonably priced for their smaller cabins/rooms to stay the night after a soak in the Therme. Now the entire Hotel is focused on Chinese/middle-eastern wealth clients. They even have (or at least used to last time I checked ~2019) free helicopter pickup within Switzerland if you stay there (as if heli traffic in the valleys wasn't annoying enough already). I used to go there after hiking in the mountains for a couple of days, and it was a fantastic cap to a short excursion into nature, spent without showers in mountain huts. It's just not possible anymore - and apparently not desired by the new owner.

cassepipe 4y ago

I am disappointed there's no mention of energy management/insulation. Seems even more relevant for a high altitude cabin, living far away from civilization. What's its impact on its environment? For the price of the stay for a week, I would expect something clever on that aspect of the building.

galfarragem 4y ago
It's a wood plancks cabin with rockwool insulation in the middle of the wall. I believe central heating works via wood burn.
ThePadawan 4y ago
It might not seem like that to the author. This cabin is at ~1500 meters of altitude, in a village with a road and several other buildings. For rural Switzerland, that's not living far away from civilization - that's just living in civilization. I would even assume you get normal postal service like every other place in Switzerland not separated from the outside world by cable car. I'm sure it's worth investigating about the architecture of e.g. the huts of the Swiss Alpine Club [0]. These are up there in the ~3000 meters range, only accessible by multi-hour hikes and only seasonally maintained. German-language Wikipedia has a great lot of information and pictures [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Alpine_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Alpine_Club [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_H%C3%BCtten_des_Schweizer_Alpen-Clubs https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_H%C3%BCtten_des_Schw...
- abhv 4y ago
  I totally agree with you. The hutli experience is also very special for different reasons.

snickmy 4y ago

For the architect / construction engineers out there. I'm always a bit concerned where I see those wood projects I really wonder about two aspects: 1- thermal conductivity. How well isolated can they be when you have full beams of wood with one side outside and one inside. 2- durability. I really appreciate wood for SOOO many properties, but what is really the realistic durability of woods? from an ecstatic standpoint, from a maintance standpoint (do I need to regularly treat it), and from a functional standpoint (what happen with heavy duty use)? Would love some inform opinion

abhv 4y ago
1-- First snow of the season occurred our first night. My memory is that the walls never felt cold. We started a fire using that granite cylinder fireplace. You pack it with about 12 logs, light it and then shut the door tightly. It burns the wood efficiently over several hours and then continues to radiate ten+ hours of heat into the house. Overall: very comfortable. I think the beams were 6" of solid wood. 2-- Alpine woods are incredible. The table top in that picture was unfinished. The instructions of the house say that if you spill something, you just wipe it off with a damp rag. I was terrified of eating fondue or jam-and-bread with my kids there, thinking we would mess up his table. Fact is: we did have spaghetti and spilled sauce, and the damp rag treatment didn't leave any stains. Zumthor also seems to have a big family and there is evidence his grandchildren operate like normal kids in that place. My son gave me a wooden box carved from alpine wood, and the maker intentionally kept it unfinished. The maker told me that the oils in the alpine wood provide a natural protection; +1 yr later and that box sits in our kitchen holding salt. It has developed a natural patina despite lots of mid-sautee grabs, opens, and pinches. TLDR: like cedar, ipe, and other special woods, I think the wood used to build this house will last a long time in that natural environment.
- snickmy 4y ago
  Fascinating. thank you for sharing
johnofthesea 4y ago
1- Those beams under the roof on the picture are not part of the interior. There is probably some insulation between construction and outside cladding. There is also some in-between construction. 2- If outside is painted it needs to be repainted at some point. There are also untreated facades or facades treated with fire [0]. Untreated wooden facade must have air gap behind to prevent rot. In case of untreated wood - color and shape is not stable. But in case of facade this is not issue. Structural elements and window/door frames should be treated though. [0]: ie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakisugi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakisugi

dpatru 4y ago

The cabin’s webpage is here: https://zumthorferienhaeuser.ch/m/en/homes/oberhus https://zumthorferienhaeuser.ch/m/en/homes/oberhus It shows the floor plan.

huhtenberg 4y ago

In related news, the Villa Vals featured on Netflix Most Extraordinary Homes series (with a hobbit-like circular facade, dug into the steep slope with an access tunnel) is also available for rent https://www.villavals.ch/ https://www.villavals.ch/ Also remote as heck, rented for several days at a time and with pretty much nothing to do there, but eat. Fantastic build though.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

zkdev 4y ago

What is there to do in a small Swiss village with no shops?

lajosbacs 4y ago
No shops is a feature.
lm28469 4y ago
Your version of hell is my version of paradise.
abhv 4y ago
Hiking, skiing, exploring. Some people still raise goats, sheep, animals in the high mountain country. They make exquisite local cheese from the milk.