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Matter – Protocol to connect compatible devices and systems with one another

395 points by itherseed 4y ago

stoplying1 4y ago
Doesn't Matter require device attestation? To me, this says, "Matter will never be compatible with cheap DIY devices like ESP32 devices". And also makes me suspicious of being able to create a Chromecast competitor that removes ads, or whatever.
- balloob 4y ago
  Matter certification requires that controllers do attestation (validate that the device says they are who they say they are) but you are allowed to offer an option to users to bypass it (like Apple does today for HomeKit today).
- FerdSlav 4y ago
  The official Matter SDK has examples targeting the ESP32, along with other low-cost chipsets: https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip/tree/master/examples/lock-app/esp32 https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip/tree/master/...
  - stoplying1 4y ago
    Thank you! I'm happy to stop repeating/worrying about this and dive in more, and you've given me a great starting point.
fulafel 4y ago
Is there an open source implementation? On the threadgroup.org web page it has an ad to "Gain intellectual property rights for Thread technology" - what does this mean?
- balloob 4y ago
  Yes! It's maintained by the members of the CSA alliance (which authors Matter). It means that Google, Apple and Home Assistant will all run the same controller code and benefit from bug fixes. Chip manufacturers like Espressif and Nordic maintain implementations for their boards in there too, so anyone can now have the software to produce Matter compatible light bulbs. https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip
joezydeco 4y ago
- rektide 4y ago
  And 550 other companies, working on a standard. This kind of response is harmful. Google is not all bad. Orgs are complex entities with a lot of competing interests. Using shit-colored shades exclusively to view anything is too limiting & sad a way to go.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    How many companies are involved in the USB-C debacle? It seems to me like there's many companies involved with different and competing interests, yet nobody is sounding the alarm bell over USB-C 5 Pro Max SuperSpeed 2x2 10G.
  - mnd999 4y ago
    Google is pretty bad, and there’s no way I would buy any Google manufactured device (hunk of e-waste?) Your point is valid though, there are hundreds of other companies involved in this standard, many of them will make fantastic devices and there’s no reason to ignore them all because of one bad vendor.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      If you want software to improve, you need to encourage companies working together on initiatives like this. Both Google and Apple suffer from this lack of communication, and it's led to shitty protocols time-after-time. If we start with Matter, maybe we can break down other arbitrary barriers like iMessage and the App Store/Play Store. Then we don't have to resort to antitrust litigation!
    - joezydeco 4y ago
      The "one bad vendor" is the gatekeeper for 50% of the mobile device hardware space. If you take a wild guess and assume that most people will interact with home automation through their handhelds, and 100% of them will when away from home and their house hubs, then that "one bad vendor" could seriously crater the health of the ecosystem.
moooo99 4y ago
I'll be closely following the development of matter, especially when it comes to compatible devices. Cloud dependency of many devices for the most basic functionality offered is an absolute dealbreaker for me. While I doubt that there will be meaningful change when it comes to the app mess retrofit smart home systems tend to create, I really do think matter will offer significant improvements. Knowing that I will still be able to dim my smart lights even if company X goes bankrupt makes is slightly easier to justify spending the premium on smart bulbs. Also, I really hope that having one universal application level protocol for a variety of devices will further improve the home assistant experience. While the device support is great for many big brands, smaller brands (especially those outside the US) are sometimes lacking integrations.
- quadrifoliate 4y ago
  What I don't like about Matter is that the participants in the standard itself don't seem to be proceeding with the ideal of having an abstract, unified control device. From a further link [1] from the posted article: > Consumers will still need a lot of apps: One of the initial promises of Matter was that consumers would be able to add a device — like Amazon’s Echo — to their smart home controller but wouldn’t have to download a special app for every outlet or light switch they bring into the home. But at launch, and likely for a couple of years as the standard gets more robust, consumers will still need apps for anything beyond the basics, including installation. Even my panelists realized that this was the case. I hope these companies realize that they are basically excluding themselves from a lot of potential customers by pulling this crap. I would have put smart bulbs as upscale stocking stuffers every holiday season if it wasn't for the fact that I have no idea what product / version / "ecosystem" the potential recipients use. "Just install a new app" is not a reasonable solution. ---------------------------------------- [1] https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-at-launch/ https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-...
  - jkestner 4y ago
    Right - there was no way that the giants would partner together unless they could create their own wedges. It seems that there will be a baseline standard that allows end users to use their hardware on any one of the platforms, but each platform will have their own requirements for developers, starting with proprietary integration for the "best customer experience".
vsareto 4y ago
Something on this page prevents clicking the Security Webinar and Whitepaper download links on Firefox and Chrome, so here are those links: https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-security-privacy-webinar-april-2022/ https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-security-privacy-webinar... https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Matter_Security_and_Privacy_WP_March-2022.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Matter_Securi...
1123581321 4y ago
This related article from the same blog, and its comment section, helped me understand the current state of matter and the trajectory of the standard after 1.0. It seems it will take some time to support the full range of typical devices. It’s also unclear what manufacturers will need to do to ease setup and interoperability within their own apps. https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-at-launch/ https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-...
mox1 4y ago
A co-worker and I were just talking about Matter yesterday. Underneath the hood this runs on a networking protocol called "Thread"[1], which itself uses IEEE 802.15.4. This is pretty similar to ZigBee. Thread runs on 2.4ghz. Thread uses ipv6 and UDP (TCP optional), so it should integrate well with existing network infrastructure. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- quadrifoliate 4y ago
  > Underneath the hood this runs on a networking protocol called "Thread" This is correct, but potentially leaves out a level of abstraction [1]. Matter is designed to abstract away multiple networking protocols, including Thread and Wi-Fi. Philips Hue, for example, plans to support Matter but not Thread [2]. ---------------------------------------- [1] A bit like saying "HTTP runs on TCP". It usually does, but it's not necessary to the standard. [2] https://matter-smarthome.de/en/interview-en/we-dont-have-plans-to-build-thread-light-bulbs/ https://matter-smarthome.de/en/interview-en/we-dont-have-pla...
  - RetpolineDrama 4y ago
    What's hue's deal with not supporting thread? Seems far superior to their current setup.
    - ktta 4y ago
      You can always read what the GP linked. It details why
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    > The Hue Bridge is not just a Wi-Fi to Zigbee translator. It has never been. It’s also the local intelligence of the system. It coordinates that your switches work well with the lights, it is what makes sure that the network is well managed. Entertainment streams, cloud services, automations, schedules … all that and more is managed by the bridge. Such a small, reliable “edge computer“ in the home is essential. matter does not offer a solution for it. Building all the functionalities directly into lamps would make things much more complicated, and we don’t want to move them to the cloud. That is, even if we used Thread, we would still need a bridge. Second: Mesh networking with Zigbee in an efficient and reliable way is really hard. We have been working on getting that to work well for a decade. And Thread at scale in the complexity of users homes is not yet proven. I’m a bit afraid of how open Thread will be. There will be many, many companies with many different implementations in the same network. So, I see a lot of risk, and we don’t have plans to build Thread light bulbs. I don’t say never, but we have very much a “wait and see“ approach towards it. Last not least: We have a very happy and large installed base. A key benefit of Philips Hue is future-proof and always up to date. Many people have made large investments in a Hue system as part of their home infrastructure, not as a gadget. And they expect that these products remain relevant for at least ten years. So far, we have never asked consumers to buy new lights.
donatj 4y ago
Neat. I've been using the Alexa phone app as a centralizing tool for all my smart home junk, and it works (usually), but it's awkward.
joshstrange 4y ago
My biggest issue with Thread is (AFAICT) it gives each device access to the internet. That's the absolute last thing I want and the reason I went 100% Z-wave (with a handful of legacy zigbee devices). I want a single point of local hardware that my devices talk to and that hub can talk to the internet as needed but I don't want to have to vet every device or deal with companies going out of business. As it stands now I don't care at all who made my Z-wave switches/bulbs/plugs, they could already be out of business for all I care, that's not the case with 90% of "smart home" shit I see online. "No hub" means "absolutely not" for me because that's a wifi device with full access to your network (unless you segment) and the internet.
- Helmut10001 4y ago
  Note, you can always set up a Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) as a VLAN for your IOT stuff, and then use a proxy in case you need those to reach some servers outside. It is not a solution for always-on-internet devices, but for stuff like Shellies it works fine.
- stavros 4y ago
  Does it? This is a pretty big departure from Zigbee, why would they do this? It's very much an antifeature.
  - joshstrange 4y ago
    Please someone tell me if I'm wrong but from reading the wiki [0] everything in there screams "this has full access to the internet". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol)
    - stavros 4y ago
      Hm, yeah, it does say "cloud access". I hope they mean just the hub has access, and the devices don't rely on it.
    - jcrawfordor 4y ago
mortenjorck 4y ago
> Matter lets devices communicate with bridges and controllers locally, which means that your smart home will still work when the internet goes down, and some devices may still have basic functionality even if they lose their cloud connection because the device maker goes out of business. While I'm glad perfect did not become the enemy of the good and we actually have a standard now, I hope the consortium doesn't stop here, and keeps moving toward more vendor-agnostic, consumer-friendly standards. > Originally, Matter was supposed to handle enough elements of provisioning and functionality so users wouldn’t have to download an app. In most cases, users will still need to do so. While I also hope Matter doesn't turn into USB-IF ("Matter 3.1 Gen 2 SuperSpeed"), some clear evolutions or optional certifications (especially something for long-term, in-case-they-fold functionality) would be good to see them working toward.
nonethewiser 4y ago
What is the coolest thing you can do with a smarthome? The single biggest selling point? Seems like you can basically just control appliances from your smartphone. Seems like such a small benefit (frankly I wouldn't even use it) for such a large effort, not to mention the security and data integrity problems.
- hinkley 4y ago
  The coolest thing you can do is throw a dance party with lighting effects. I’m not sure I would have any idea what the best thing is that you could do, however.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  There are cool things you can do with a smarthome, like let a friend into your house remotely, but those aren't the selling features. The selling features are the boring things. Like connecting a light switch to a lightbulb without having to pull wires through external walls. Or instead of waking up to an annoying alarm clock wake up to your blinds opening.
  - rustyminnow 4y ago
    Agreed about the little things. The best thing I've done is put a floor lamp on a timer... which sounds really lame but was so nice since there wasn't a light switch or outlet switch in that room. I had it come on in the morning before I get up, then turn off after I leave for the day. Turn on in the evening, and off at bedtime. You can get mechanical timers for that, but they don't adjust themselves for daylight savings or changing sunrise/sunset times. I was going to set it up to stay on longer when it is dark and overcast out, but I moved to a place with better switch placement, so never did.
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    Agree, there's no one life-changing killer feature, but there's lots of small ones. For example my thermostat goes up to 85 when I'm not at home, and I set it to a more comfortable temperature before I head home (it'll automatically get more comfortable when I arrive, but on hot days it's nice to pre-cool). You could accomplish something that works maybe 90% as well with lots of effort and a programmable thermostat, but this is more or less automatic. My entryway light turns on automatically when I get home I can turn off the lamp upstairs while I'm laying in bed, without having to get up.
leonsmith 4y ago
The spec is behind a lead capture form so direct links below: https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27349-001_Matter-1.0-Core-Specification76.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27349-001_... https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27350-001_Matter-1.0-Application-Cluster-Specification15.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27350-001_... https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27351-001_Matter-1.0-Device-Library-Specification39.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27351-001_...
- enjoylife 4y ago
  It’s 900 pages long, I don’t have a good point of reference so I’ll ask. Is this a small or large reference doc compared to alternatives? Or phrased another way. Will no name, cheap devices ever properly implement this spec?
  - balloob 4y ago
    They will because there is an open source reference implementation that they can use: https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip
  - rhco 4y ago
    For reference, the IEEE 802.15.4 spec is ~800 pages long. 900 pages does sound like a lot considering that Matter (AFAIK?) doesn't directly spec any hardware or transport details - those being covered in 802.15.4 and Thread. Granted, we should remember that those 900 pages include base details that, probably, CSA are not planning to change in the foreseeable future. They need to be very thorough. To answer your real question: device manufacturers will likely use the Matter SDK. It would be a huge undertaking for a smart-light manufacturer to re-write all of that code from scratch!
    - greggsy 4y ago
      I haven’t read the spec, but I believe that some backwards compatibility is built in, and there’s a degree of complexity involved in making a robust framework that isn’t general purpose (like Wifi), but instead offers compartmentalisation of different device types and use cases. I agree with the manufacturer concerns, but many were in a bit of limbo while Matter and Thread languished in draft RFC hell. The spec was always ‘coming by the end of the year’, and obviously impacted by the pandemic. At least now, there is some certainty and a path forward.
0xbadcafebee 4y ago
Do any of these devices support powerline networking? Would solve so many problems.
balloob 4y ago
At Home Assistant we're very excited about Matter. Here are some highlights for us: Open source reference implementation: Google, Apple, Home Assistant, we're all going to be running the same code to be a Matter controller. Chip manufacturers like Espressif and Nordic maintain implementations for their boards in there too, so anyone can now have the software to produce Matter compatible light bulbs. https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip It will be cheap: The software is freely available and works with a big audience. It's the same reason Android TVs from some manufacturers are cheap, the same will be the case for Matter lights and switches. Multi-fabric: each Matter device is required to support 5 fabrics. A fabric is a Matter network. This means that you will be able to run multiple home automation controllers at the same time. So when run into the limitations of Google Home or Apple Home, you can try out Home Assistant without taking down your old system. Easy sharing of devices: Because of multi-fabric, it will be as easy as hitting a share button to get a device added to another fabric. See this example of Android https://twitter.com/home_assistant/status/1577036122555035648 https://twitter.com/home_assistant/status/157703612255503564... Local: all communication for Matter is happening local between a device, a thread border router (if thread-based Matter), and the controller. Note that your controller can still decide to store your data in the cloud (ie Amazon, Google). Supported by major systems: Amazon, Apple, Google and Home Assistant are all building the open source Matter code into their systems. It means that for manufacturers it will be easy to pick Matter as the protocol they want to support to reach most users. Works over IP: Matter works over IP and doens't care how that IP-based device communicates. It means that you can have Wi-Fi based and Thread-based devices co-exist on your network. Thread is not required if you don't care about such devices. Bridges are part of the standard: Devices like Philips Hue hubs are going to get an upgrade to expose all the Hue lights over Matter via the hub. This makes integrating a whole ecosystem at once into Matter very easy. Thread: Thread is a mesh networking standard that connects to your Wi-Fi network via border routers. Where Zigbee and Z-Wave need to mesh communicate all the way to your controller, Thread messages will be delivered via Wi-Fi/ethernet as soon as possible. This means it is a lot more reliable and less traffic is going over the mesh. Expect cheap border routers (open source reference implementations) but also expect them in your future Wi-Fi routers, voice assistants, Wi-Fi connected TVs etc. Paulus /Founder Home Assistant https://www.home-assistant.io https://www.home-assistant.io
glitchc 4y ago
When I hear Thread, I see this: https://static3.depositphotos.com/1003681/166/i/950/depositphotos_1665282-stock-photo-red-thread.jpg https://static3.depositphotos.com/1003681/166/i/950/depositp... (Slight tongue-in-cheek) That's the first hit from Google.
mmastrac 4y ago
There's a lot of VC blood on the floor that bought us this common standard. Standardization is tough or impossible in a market that is minting unicorns -- we just had to wait for things to cool off before we could agree. This is one of the gotchas of our current tech world: money drives progress, but that progress is almost always at the expense of cooperation.
WaitWaitWha 4y ago
Are the Bluetooth & WiFi required, or can it be just Matter? I am all Zigbee currently because Z-wave proprietary nature and some technical limitations. edit: welp "Matter aims to build a universal IPv6-based communication protocol for smart home devices." time to look for something to replace my zigbees. :/
- sandos 4y ago
  Matter is higher level than both wifi and Bluetooth, so yeah you will need "something" to communicate over, which will be IP. Thread for example which is sort of zigbee.
djhworld 4y ago
I've been holding off buying any new smart bulbs etc. until this is finally a widespread thing, I just hope manufacturers are quick to get on board. I have a few wifi bulbs in the house which are ok but you need a special app to use them and I can't see a way to integrate them into Home Assistant as it's some proprietary thing from TP-link ('TAPO') - I'm not making that mistake again!
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sbf501 4y ago
The best part about this is we finally have some kind of broad certification. Amazon has a similar process, but it is currently in its infancy. The process may not be perfect, but it is now in place, which means it can be augmented. I hope this means the free-for-all of insecure IoT devices starts to diminish.
dwheeler 4y ago
This is my favorite sentence: > There are 550 members of the CSA participating in the Matter standard development, and this summer 280 companies including Amazon, Signify, Google, SmartThings, and more met up to test their products working together in a series of test events. Creating a specification is good, but it doesn't matter if no one will implement it. I haven't been following the development of Matter, but as an outsider this is a very good sign.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  As an Home Automation consumer, that hates cloud required products The list of companies in the alliance has given me great pause that it is good thing. It is a who's who of "evil" anti-consumer companies that love vendor and cloud lockin, many of which have been open hostile to projects like Home Assistance which puts the user/consumer in control of their data
alfiedotwtf 4y ago
The S in Matter stands for Security
eternityforest 4y ago
I'm excited. But I really have no idea if it will be good or bad. I'm sure devices will be phoning home, but I can accept that. What worries me is that they might brick themselves if the server goes down. Either intentionally, as a "This device can't get security updates so we won't let you use it" thing, or accidentally, as in "Oops, we never actually tested this feature without internet, sorry the lights are stuck on disco mode till you fix that". Hopefully nobody will actually rely on direct device to server stuff, and Matter will standardize local versions of everything that might otherwise be done with the server. And hopefully they don't phone home so much that the whole thing just becomes untrusted by the tech savvy crowd and disappears entirely. I would have been fine with ZigBee, but if this gets as big as they want it to, the switch will be worth it. I'm still hopeful. The name is awful though. Couldn't it be WebMatter or something? Can we stop naming things after ungoogleable common words?
raydiatian 4y ago
Having no idea what “ Matter™ ” is, this headline feels vaguely like somebody is declaring that reality is in fact Facebook-officially real, and you can expect to go out and explore it today if you wish.
- pixelpoet 4y ago
  I also found the headline annoyingly vague / completely lacking in any useful information, and presuming it to be a big deal somehow, I clicked and was immediately greeted by fullscreen Stacey-whatever-spam. Not going to do that again, and I still have no idea what this crap is even after scrolling through a ton of comments to reach yours with a similar experience. Edit: Now I see on the front page a second link, "Matter – The Foundation for Connected Things (csa-iot.org)" which at least has IoT in the URL. Three whole bytes across two separate front page items doing any work to convey what's going on...
cek 4y ago
"has left some of the more complicated use cases for later." Er, Stacey, you mean "most interesting". But better late and lame, than never. Remember, the great thing about Smart Home standards is there are so many to choose from.
throwaway0asd 4y ago
I can’t help but think the team photo on the site is staged. It looks like everyone is wearing costumes for a hipster themed costume party.
- constGard 4y ago
  I think the thing that clued me in was the fact that there were two people wearing sweaters knotted at the neck. One, okay, I'll allow it. Two seems like a clear signal.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  The filename gives a clue: AdobeStock_204738243
rodgerd 4y ago
> Originally, Matter was supposed to handle enough elements of provisioning and functionality so users wouldn’t have to download an app. In most cases, users will still need to do so I see that the surveillance capitalists got their way.
mdip 4y ago
> ... So while Matter makes it possible for Eve, a sensor and device company that historically only worked with Apple’s HomeKit ecosystem, to finally work on Android devices, it also means that Eve’s competitors can work with the same ecosystems ... I'm struggling why this is a problem that we don't already mostly have, today. My smart speakers are Alexa devices[0]. I used to have a ridiculously complicated HomeAssistant setup that died when the server that the virtual was running on cratered. And yes, I'm missing some functionality that I had setup, but really -- I can program my thermostat, I can setup complicated routines for lights that are all different brands. When a person is detected on my front porch using my Wyze, my phone alerts me (wyze app), My echo dot notifies me that someone is on my porch, and I'm supposed to be able to make the Show display the feed (haven't bothered). I get that Matter brings to the table "they can talk to one another offline" -- that is a big deal -- my only issue is the idea that Matter introduces new market risks that don't already exist, today. I buy the smart home product based on the specific need I'm trying to fill and whether or not it works with Alexa, which nearly everything does, so the only part of the ecosystem that I'm locked into is the Alexa side. I can, however, control my devices (a subset of features depending on what the vendor decided to expose) from my Echo Show, Alexa app and "talking to the lady". I say "Ziggy, Goodnight", my Belkin smart plug fires up, my two LIFX lights shut off, my Cree bulb shuts off. At 1:00 AM, my LG and Roku TVs shut off. I set this all up through Alexa routines, not the apps (which were needed to join the device to WiFi and pair with Alexa). This post seemed more negative than it should be -- I'm not unhappy with Matter -- yes, it's got problems, but it's a good starting point toward "let me use the device from the manufacturer that makes the best one, not the one I'm stuck with because I use Amazon's ecosystem." Only time will tell if we see a myriad of devices that are Matter licensed which "interoperate with one another offline" but I'm hopeful. [0] It's by accident ... I had a job that involved developing Alexa skills so it was helpful to work with one regularly; the kids liked them, so we bought more.
nathan_f77 4y ago
This is great news, the Matter protocol sounds like it will make things a lot easier in the future. If you're looking to get started with home automation, I would recommend using Home Assistant as the central software to control everything. Matter seems to solve some issues that I don't really experience as a Home Assistant user. You can use Home Assistant as the gateway that connects all your hubs and devices together. I would also highly recommend buying Zigbee products from AliExpress. These are far more affordable than anything that you find in a retail store or from big brands. If you're very wealthy then you could afford to go with Philips Hue products for everything, but I've had a lot of success with some very affordable Zigbee and Bluetooth devices. Here's the products I would recommend (all prices in USD): * XIAOMI Mijia Bluetooth Temp/Humidity sensors: $4.86 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000528071010.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000528071010.html * You can flash these with a great custom firmware: https://github.com/pvvx/ATC_MiThermometer * Sonoff Zigbee products: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003446793340.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003446793340.html * Motion sensor: $9.49 * Door/window sensor: $8.49 * Temp/humidity sensor: $8.49 (If you prefer Zigbee to Bluetooth) * Moes Zigbee switch and dimmer modules for wall switches and ceiling lights: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002668368040.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002668368040.html * 1 gang switch: $11.19 * 2 gang switch: $13.06 * 1 gang dimmer for LED lights: $13.06 * 2 gang dimmer: $14.92 * Tuya Zigbee Garage Door module (with relay + reed switch sensor): $18.39 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003610757320.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003610757320.html I've been really impressed with these battery-powered devices. I was worried that I'd be constantly changing batteries, but some of my motion and door sensors have lasted for over 2 years on a single CR2032 battery.
- 542458 4y ago
  What are you using as your Zigbee hub?
  - nathan_f77 4y ago
    I'm using a zzh (CC2652R Stick) from electrolama [1]. For the software, I use Zigbee2MQTT (z2m) [2] running as a Home Assistant [3] add-on. Here's a full list of supported USB Zigbee adapters for z2m [4]. [1] https://electrolama.com/projects/zig-a-zig-ah/ https://electrolama.com/projects/zig-a-zig-ah/ [2] https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io [3] https://www.home-assistant.io https://www.home-assistant.io [4] https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/guide/adapters/#recommended https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/guide/adapters/#recommended
hda2 4y ago
What are the implications of Matter on the privacy of my household? Will implementations require me to connect to the "cloud" or send "telemetry" to it, or will I be allowed to run this system completely isolated from the internet?
dang 4y ago
Comments moved to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33083413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33083413. Edit: I've been told that this article is the better one so am going to merge the thread hither.
- tpoacher 4y ago
  So you went hence thither and then thence hither again whence you came.
sandos 4y ago
Wait, is this a bad thing? "So while Matter makes it possible for Eve, a sensor and device company that historically only worked with Apple’s HomeKit ecosystem, to finally work on Android devices, it also means that Eve’s competitors can work with the same ecosystems while offering cheaper devices that may not cover all of Eve’s cool features such as energy monitoring." I mean who wants more choice of devices, and cheaper ones at that?
joshspankit 4y ago
Mainly I’m concerned that there is little or no Matter support in Tasmota/ESPHome/WLED or other firmwares that target the ESP8266/ESP32. It’s the perfect fit, and the market is literally crying for it. The fact that the community has not jumped in with both feet is.. unsettling.

395 points by itherseed 4y ago

Doesn't Matter require device attestation? To me, this says, "Matter will never be compatible with cheap DIY devices like ESP32 devices". And also makes me suspicious of being able to create a Chromecast competitor that removes ads, or whatever.

balloob 4y ago
Matter certification requires that controllers do attestation (validate that the device says they are who they say they are) but you are allowed to offer an option to users to bypass it (like Apple does today for HomeKit today).
FerdSlav 4y ago
The official Matter SDK has examples targeting the ESP32, along with other low-cost chipsets: https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip/tree/master/examples/lock-app/esp32 https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip/tree/master/...
- stoplying1 4y ago
  Thank you! I'm happy to stop repeating/worrying about this and dive in more, and you've given me a great starting point.

fulafel 4y ago

Is there an open source implementation? On the threadgroup.org web page it has an ad to "Gain intellectual property rights for Thread technology" - what does this mean?

balloob 4y ago
Yes! It's maintained by the members of the CSA alliance (which authors Matter). It means that Google, Apple and Home Assistant will all run the same controller code and benefit from bug fixes. Chip manufacturers like Espressif and Nordic maintain implementations for their boards in there too, so anyone can now have the software to produce Matter compatible light bulbs. https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip

joezydeco 4y ago

rektide 4y ago
And 550 other companies, working on a standard. This kind of response is harmful. Google is not all bad. Orgs are complex entities with a lot of competing interests. Using shit-colored shades exclusively to view anything is too limiting & sad a way to go.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  How many companies are involved in the USB-C debacle? It seems to me like there's many companies involved with different and competing interests, yet nobody is sounding the alarm bell over USB-C 5 Pro Max SuperSpeed 2x2 10G.
- mnd999 4y ago
  Google is pretty bad, and there’s no way I would buy any Google manufactured device (hunk of e-waste?) Your point is valid though, there are hundreds of other companies involved in this standard, many of them will make fantastic devices and there’s no reason to ignore them all because of one bad vendor.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    If you want software to improve, you need to encourage companies working together on initiatives like this. Both Google and Apple suffer from this lack of communication, and it's led to shitty protocols time-after-time. If we start with Matter, maybe we can break down other arbitrary barriers like iMessage and the App Store/Play Store. Then we don't have to resort to antitrust litigation!
  - joezydeco 4y ago
    The "one bad vendor" is the gatekeeper for 50% of the mobile device hardware space. If you take a wild guess and assume that most people will interact with home automation through their handhelds, and 100% of them will when away from home and their house hubs, then that "one bad vendor" could seriously crater the health of the ecosystem.

moooo99 4y ago

I'll be closely following the development of matter, especially when it comes to compatible devices. Cloud dependency of many devices for the most basic functionality offered is an absolute dealbreaker for me. While I doubt that there will be meaningful change when it comes to the app mess retrofit smart home systems tend to create, I really do think matter will offer significant improvements. Knowing that I will still be able to dim my smart lights even if company X goes bankrupt makes is slightly easier to justify spending the premium on smart bulbs. Also, I really hope that having one universal application level protocol for a variety of devices will further improve the home assistant experience. While the device support is great for many big brands, smaller brands (especially those outside the US) are sometimes lacking integrations.

quadrifoliate 4y ago
What I don't like about Matter is that the participants in the standard itself don't seem to be proceeding with the ideal of having an abstract, unified control device. From a further link [1] from the posted article: > Consumers will still need a lot of apps: One of the initial promises of Matter was that consumers would be able to add a device — like Amazon’s Echo — to their smart home controller but wouldn’t have to download a special app for every outlet or light switch they bring into the home. But at launch, and likely for a couple of years as the standard gets more robust, consumers will still need apps for anything beyond the basics, including installation. Even my panelists realized that this was the case. I hope these companies realize that they are basically excluding themselves from a lot of potential customers by pulling this crap. I would have put smart bulbs as upscale stocking stuffers every holiday season if it wasn't for the fact that I have no idea what product / version / "ecosystem" the potential recipients use. "Just install a new app" is not a reasonable solution. ---------------------------------------- [1] https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-at-launch/ https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-...
- jkestner 4y ago
  Right - there was no way that the giants would partner together unless they could create their own wedges. It seems that there will be a baseline standard that allows end users to use their hardware on any one of the platforms, but each platform will have their own requirements for developers, starting with proprietary integration for the "best customer experience".

vsareto 4y ago

Something on this page prevents clicking the Security Webinar and Whitepaper download links on Firefox and Chrome, so here are those links: https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-security-privacy-webinar-april-2022/ https://csa-iot.org/newsroom/matter-security-privacy-webinar... https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Matter_Security_and_Privacy_WP_March-2022.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Matter_Securi...

1123581321 4y ago

This related article from the same blog, and its comment section, helped me understand the current state of matter and the trajectory of the standard after 1.0. It seems it will take some time to support the full range of typical devices. It’s also unclear what manufacturers will need to do to ease setup and interoperability within their own apps. https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-at-launch/ https://staceyoniot.com/5-ways-matter-will-disappoint-users-...

mox1 4y ago

A co-worker and I were just talking about Matter yesterday. Underneath the hood this runs on a networking protocol called "Thread"[1], which itself uses IEEE 802.15.4. This is pretty similar to ZigBee. Thread runs on 2.4ghz. Thread uses ipv6 and UDP (TCP optional), so it should integrate well with existing network infrastructure. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol)

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quadrifoliate 4y ago
> Underneath the hood this runs on a networking protocol called "Thread" This is correct, but potentially leaves out a level of abstraction [1]. Matter is designed to abstract away multiple networking protocols, including Thread and Wi-Fi. Philips Hue, for example, plans to support Matter but not Thread [2]. ---------------------------------------- [1] A bit like saying "HTTP runs on TCP". It usually does, but it's not necessary to the standard. [2] https://matter-smarthome.de/en/interview-en/we-dont-have-plans-to-build-thread-light-bulbs/ https://matter-smarthome.de/en/interview-en/we-dont-have-pla...
- RetpolineDrama 4y ago
  What's hue's deal with not supporting thread? Seems far superior to their current setup.
  - ktta 4y ago
    You can always read what the GP linked. It details why
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  > The Hue Bridge is not just a Wi-Fi to Zigbee translator. It has never been. It’s also the local intelligence of the system. It coordinates that your switches work well with the lights, it is what makes sure that the network is well managed. Entertainment streams, cloud services, automations, schedules … all that and more is managed by the bridge. Such a small, reliable “edge computer“ in the home is essential. matter does not offer a solution for it. Building all the functionalities directly into lamps would make things much more complicated, and we don’t want to move them to the cloud. That is, even if we used Thread, we would still need a bridge. Second: Mesh networking with Zigbee in an efficient and reliable way is really hard. We have been working on getting that to work well for a decade. And Thread at scale in the complexity of users homes is not yet proven. I’m a bit afraid of how open Thread will be. There will be many, many companies with many different implementations in the same network. So, I see a lot of risk, and we don’t have plans to build Thread light bulbs. I don’t say never, but we have very much a “wait and see“ approach towards it. Last not least: We have a very happy and large installed base. A key benefit of Philips Hue is future-proof and always up to date. Many people have made large investments in a Hue system as part of their home infrastructure, not as a gadget. And they expect that these products remain relevant for at least ten years. So far, we have never asked consumers to buy new lights.

donatj 4y ago

Neat. I've been using the Alexa phone app as a centralizing tool for all my smart home junk, and it works (usually), but it's awkward.

joshstrange 4y ago

My biggest issue with Thread is (AFAICT) it gives each device access to the internet. That's the absolute last thing I want and the reason I went 100% Z-wave (with a handful of legacy zigbee devices). I want a single point of local hardware that my devices talk to and that hub can talk to the internet as needed but I don't want to have to vet every device or deal with companies going out of business. As it stands now I don't care at all who made my Z-wave switches/bulbs/plugs, they could already be out of business for all I care, that's not the case with 90% of "smart home" shit I see online. "No hub" means "absolutely not" for me because that's a wifi device with full access to your network (unless you segment) and the internet.

Helmut10001 4y ago
Note, you can always set up a Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) as a VLAN for your IOT stuff, and then use a proxy in case you need those to reach some servers outside. It is not a solution for always-on-internet devices, but for stuff like Shellies it works fine.
stavros 4y ago
Does it? This is a pretty big departure from Zigbee, why would they do this? It's very much an antifeature.
- joshstrange 4y ago
  Please someone tell me if I'm wrong but from reading the wiki [0] everything in there screams "this has full access to the internet". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(network_protocol)
  - stavros 4y ago
    Hm, yeah, it does say "cloud access". I hope they mean just the hub has access, and the devices don't rely on it.
  - jcrawfordor 4y ago

mortenjorck 4y ago

> Matter lets devices communicate with bridges and controllers locally, which means that your smart home will still work when the internet goes down, and some devices may still have basic functionality even if they lose their cloud connection because the device maker goes out of business. While I'm glad perfect did not become the enemy of the good and we actually have a standard now, I hope the consortium doesn't stop here, and keeps moving toward more vendor-agnostic, consumer-friendly standards. > Originally, Matter was supposed to handle enough elements of provisioning and functionality so users wouldn’t have to download an app. In most cases, users will still need to do so. While I also hope Matter doesn't turn into USB-IF ("Matter 3.1 Gen 2 SuperSpeed"), some clear evolutions or optional certifications (especially something for long-term, in-case-they-fold functionality) would be good to see them working toward.

nonethewiser 4y ago

What is the coolest thing you can do with a smarthome? The single biggest selling point? Seems like you can basically just control appliances from your smartphone. Seems like such a small benefit (frankly I wouldn't even use it) for such a large effort, not to mention the security and data integrity problems.

hinkley 4y ago
The coolest thing you can do is throw a dance party with lighting effects. I’m not sure I would have any idea what the best thing is that you could do, however.
bryanlarsen 4y ago
There are cool things you can do with a smarthome, like let a friend into your house remotely, but those aren't the selling features. The selling features are the boring things. Like connecting a light switch to a lightbulb without having to pull wires through external walls. Or instead of waking up to an annoying alarm clock wake up to your blinds opening.
- rustyminnow 4y ago
  Agreed about the little things. The best thing I've done is put a floor lamp on a timer... which sounds really lame but was so nice since there wasn't a light switch or outlet switch in that room. I had it come on in the morning before I get up, then turn off after I leave for the day. Turn on in the evening, and off at bedtime. You can get mechanical timers for that, but they don't adjust themselves for daylight savings or changing sunrise/sunset times. I was going to set it up to stay on longer when it is dark and overcast out, but I moved to a place with better switch placement, so never did.
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  Agree, there's no one life-changing killer feature, but there's lots of small ones. For example my thermostat goes up to 85 when I'm not at home, and I set it to a more comfortable temperature before I head home (it'll automatically get more comfortable when I arrive, but on hot days it's nice to pre-cool). You could accomplish something that works maybe 90% as well with lots of effort and a programmable thermostat, but this is more or less automatic. My entryway light turns on automatically when I get home I can turn off the lamp upstairs while I'm laying in bed, without having to get up.

leonsmith 4y ago

The spec is behind a lead capture form so direct links below: https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27349-001_Matter-1.0-Core-Specification76.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27349-001_... https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27350-001_Matter-1.0-Application-Cluster-Specification15.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27350-001_... https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27351-001_Matter-1.0-Device-Library-Specification39.pdf https://csa-iot.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/22-27351-001_...

enjoylife 4y ago
It’s 900 pages long, I don’t have a good point of reference so I’ll ask. Is this a small or large reference doc compared to alternatives? Or phrased another way. Will no name, cheap devices ever properly implement this spec?
- balloob 4y ago
  They will because there is an open source reference implementation that they can use: https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip
- rhco 4y ago
  For reference, the IEEE 802.15.4 spec is ~800 pages long. 900 pages does sound like a lot considering that Matter (AFAIK?) doesn't directly spec any hardware or transport details - those being covered in 802.15.4 and Thread. Granted, we should remember that those 900 pages include base details that, probably, CSA are not planning to change in the foreseeable future. They need to be very thorough. To answer your real question: device manufacturers will likely use the Matter SDK. It would be a huge undertaking for a smart-light manufacturer to re-write all of that code from scratch!
  - greggsy 4y ago
    I haven’t read the spec, but I believe that some backwards compatibility is built in, and there’s a degree of complexity involved in making a robust framework that isn’t general purpose (like Wifi), but instead offers compartmentalisation of different device types and use cases. I agree with the manufacturer concerns, but many were in a bit of limbo while Matter and Thread languished in draft RFC hell. The spec was always ‘coming by the end of the year’, and obviously impacted by the pandemic. At least now, there is some certainty and a path forward.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago

Do any of these devices support powerline networking? Would solve so many problems.

balloob 4y ago

At Home Assistant we're very excited about Matter. Here are some highlights for us: Open source reference implementation: Google, Apple, Home Assistant, we're all going to be running the same code to be a Matter controller. Chip manufacturers like Espressif and Nordic maintain implementations for their boards in there too, so anyone can now have the software to produce Matter compatible light bulbs. https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip It will be cheap: The software is freely available and works with a big audience. It's the same reason Android TVs from some manufacturers are cheap, the same will be the case for Matter lights and switches. Multi-fabric: each Matter device is required to support 5 fabrics. A fabric is a Matter network. This means that you will be able to run multiple home automation controllers at the same time. So when run into the limitations of Google Home or Apple Home, you can try out Home Assistant without taking down your old system. Easy sharing of devices: Because of multi-fabric, it will be as easy as hitting a share button to get a device added to another fabric. See this example of Android https://twitter.com/home_assistant/status/1577036122555035648 https://twitter.com/home_assistant/status/157703612255503564... Local: all communication for Matter is happening local between a device, a thread border router (if thread-based Matter), and the controller. Note that your controller can still decide to store your data in the cloud (ie Amazon, Google). Supported by major systems: Amazon, Apple, Google and Home Assistant are all building the open source Matter code into their systems. It means that for manufacturers it will be easy to pick Matter as the protocol they want to support to reach most users. Works over IP: Matter works over IP and doens't care how that IP-based device communicates. It means that you can have Wi-Fi based and Thread-based devices co-exist on your network. Thread is not required if you don't care about such devices. Bridges are part of the standard: Devices like Philips Hue hubs are going to get an upgrade to expose all the Hue lights over Matter via the hub. This makes integrating a whole ecosystem at once into Matter very easy. Thread: Thread is a mesh networking standard that connects to your Wi-Fi network via border routers. Where Zigbee and Z-Wave need to mesh communicate all the way to your controller, Thread messages will be delivered via Wi-Fi/ethernet as soon as possible. This means it is a lot more reliable and less traffic is going over the mesh. Expect cheap border routers (open source reference implementations) but also expect them in your future Wi-Fi routers, voice assistants, Wi-Fi connected TVs etc. Paulus /Founder Home Assistant https://www.home-assistant.io https://www.home-assistant.io

glitchc 4y ago

When I hear Thread, I see this: https://static3.depositphotos.com/1003681/166/i/950/depositphotos_1665282-stock-photo-red-thread.jpg https://static3.depositphotos.com/1003681/166/i/950/depositp... (Slight tongue-in-cheek) That's the first hit from Google.

mmastrac 4y ago

There's a lot of VC blood on the floor that bought us this common standard. Standardization is tough or impossible in a market that is minting unicorns -- we just had to wait for things to cool off before we could agree. This is one of the gotchas of our current tech world: money drives progress, but that progress is almost always at the expense of cooperation.

WaitWaitWha 4y ago

Are the Bluetooth & WiFi required, or can it be just Matter? I am all Zigbee currently because Z-wave proprietary nature and some technical limitations. edit: welp "Matter aims to build a universal IPv6-based communication protocol for smart home devices." time to look for something to replace my zigbees. :/

sandos 4y ago
Matter is higher level than both wifi and Bluetooth, so yeah you will need "something" to communicate over, which will be IP. Thread for example which is sort of zigbee.

djhworld 4y ago

I've been holding off buying any new smart bulbs etc. until this is finally a widespread thing, I just hope manufacturers are quick to get on board. I have a few wifi bulbs in the house which are ok but you need a special app to use them and I can't see a way to integrate them into Home Assistant as it's some proprietary thing from TP-link ('TAPO') - I'm not making that mistake again!

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sbf501 4y ago

The best part about this is we finally have some kind of broad certification. Amazon has a similar process, but it is currently in its infancy. The process may not be perfect, but it is now in place, which means it can be augmented. I hope this means the free-for-all of insecure IoT devices starts to diminish.

dwheeler 4y ago

This is my favorite sentence: > There are 550 members of the CSA participating in the Matter standard development, and this summer 280 companies including Amazon, Signify, Google, SmartThings, and more met up to test their products working together in a series of test events. Creating a specification is good, but it doesn't matter if no one will implement it. I haven't been following the development of Matter, but as an outsider this is a very good sign.

phpisthebest 4y ago
As an Home Automation consumer, that hates cloud required products The list of companies in the alliance has given me great pause that it is good thing. It is a who's who of "evil" anti-consumer companies that love vendor and cloud lockin, many of which have been open hostile to projects like Home Assistance which puts the user/consumer in control of their data

alfiedotwtf 4y ago

The S in Matter stands for Security

eternityforest 4y ago

I'm excited. But I really have no idea if it will be good or bad. I'm sure devices will be phoning home, but I can accept that. What worries me is that they might brick themselves if the server goes down. Either intentionally, as a "This device can't get security updates so we won't let you use it" thing, or accidentally, as in "Oops, we never actually tested this feature without internet, sorry the lights are stuck on disco mode till you fix that". Hopefully nobody will actually rely on direct device to server stuff, and Matter will standardize local versions of everything that might otherwise be done with the server. And hopefully they don't phone home so much that the whole thing just becomes untrusted by the tech savvy crowd and disappears entirely. I would have been fine with ZigBee, but if this gets as big as they want it to, the switch will be worth it. I'm still hopeful. The name is awful though. Couldn't it be WebMatter or something? Can we stop naming things after ungoogleable common words?

raydiatian 4y ago

Having no idea what “ Matter™ ” is, this headline feels vaguely like somebody is declaring that reality is in fact Facebook-officially real, and you can expect to go out and explore it today if you wish.

pixelpoet 4y ago
I also found the headline annoyingly vague / completely lacking in any useful information, and presuming it to be a big deal somehow, I clicked and was immediately greeted by fullscreen Stacey-whatever-spam. Not going to do that again, and I still have no idea what this crap is even after scrolling through a ton of comments to reach yours with a similar experience. Edit: Now I see on the front page a second link, "Matter – The Foundation for Connected Things (csa-iot.org)" which at least has IoT in the URL. Three whole bytes across two separate front page items doing any work to convey what's going on...

cek 4y ago

"has left some of the more complicated use cases for later." Er, Stacey, you mean "most interesting". But better late and lame, than never. Remember, the great thing about Smart Home standards is there are so many to choose from.

throwaway0asd 4y ago

I can’t help but think the team photo on the site is staged. It looks like everyone is wearing costumes for a hipster themed costume party.

constGard 4y ago
I think the thing that clued me in was the fact that there were two people wearing sweaters knotted at the neck. One, okay, I'll allow it. Two seems like a clear signal.
Semaphor 4y ago
The filename gives a clue: AdobeStock_204738243

rodgerd 4y ago

> Originally, Matter was supposed to handle enough elements of provisioning and functionality so users wouldn’t have to download an app. In most cases, users will still need to do so I see that the surveillance capitalists got their way.

mdip 4y ago

> ... So while Matter makes it possible for Eve, a sensor and device company that historically only worked with Apple’s HomeKit ecosystem, to finally work on Android devices, it also means that Eve’s competitors can work with the same ecosystems ... I'm struggling why this is a problem that we don't already mostly have, today. My smart speakers are Alexa devices[0]. I used to have a ridiculously complicated HomeAssistant setup that died when the server that the virtual was running on cratered. And yes, I'm missing some functionality that I had setup, but really -- I can program my thermostat, I can setup complicated routines for lights that are all different brands. When a person is detected on my front porch using my Wyze, my phone alerts me (wyze app), My echo dot notifies me that someone is on my porch, and I'm supposed to be able to make the Show display the feed (haven't bothered). I get that Matter brings to the table "they can talk to one another offline" -- that is a big deal -- my only issue is the idea that Matter introduces new market risks that don't already exist, today. I buy the smart home product based on the specific need I'm trying to fill and whether or not it works with Alexa, which nearly everything does, so the only part of the ecosystem that I'm locked into is the Alexa side. I can, however, control my devices (a subset of features depending on what the vendor decided to expose) from my Echo Show, Alexa app and "talking to the lady". I say "Ziggy, Goodnight", my Belkin smart plug fires up, my two LIFX lights shut off, my Cree bulb shuts off. At 1:00 AM, my LG and Roku TVs shut off. I set this all up through Alexa routines, not the apps (which were needed to join the device to WiFi and pair with Alexa). This post seemed more negative than it should be -- I'm not unhappy with Matter -- yes, it's got problems, but it's a good starting point toward "let me use the device from the manufacturer that makes the best one, not the one I'm stuck with because I use Amazon's ecosystem." Only time will tell if we see a myriad of devices that are Matter licensed which "interoperate with one another offline" but I'm hopeful. [0] It's by accident ... I had a job that involved developing Alexa skills so it was helpful to work with one regularly; the kids liked them, so we bought more.

nathan_f77 4y ago

This is great news, the Matter protocol sounds like it will make things a lot easier in the future. If you're looking to get started with home automation, I would recommend using Home Assistant as the central software to control everything. Matter seems to solve some issues that I don't really experience as a Home Assistant user. You can use Home Assistant as the gateway that connects all your hubs and devices together. I would also highly recommend buying Zigbee products from AliExpress. These are far more affordable than anything that you find in a retail store or from big brands. If you're very wealthy then you could afford to go with Philips Hue products for everything, but I've had a lot of success with some very affordable Zigbee and Bluetooth devices. Here's the products I would recommend (all prices in USD): * XIAOMI Mijia Bluetooth Temp/Humidity sensors: $4.86 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000528071010.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000528071010.html * You can flash these with a great custom firmware: https://github.com/pvvx/ATC_MiThermometer * Sonoff Zigbee products: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003446793340.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003446793340.html * Motion sensor: $9.49 * Door/window sensor: $8.49 * Temp/humidity sensor: $8.49 (If you prefer Zigbee to Bluetooth) * Moes Zigbee switch and dimmer modules for wall switches and ceiling lights: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002668368040.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002668368040.html * 1 gang switch: $11.19 * 2 gang switch: $13.06 * 1 gang dimmer for LED lights: $13.06 * 2 gang dimmer: $14.92 * Tuya Zigbee Garage Door module (with relay + reed switch sensor): $18.39 - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003610757320.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003610757320.html I've been really impressed with these battery-powered devices. I was worried that I'd be constantly changing batteries, but some of my motion and door sensors have lasted for over 2 years on a single CR2032 battery.

542458 4y ago
What are you using as your Zigbee hub?
- nathan_f77 4y ago
  I'm using a zzh (CC2652R Stick) from electrolama [1]. For the software, I use Zigbee2MQTT (z2m) [2] running as a Home Assistant [3] add-on. Here's a full list of supported USB Zigbee adapters for z2m [4]. [1] https://electrolama.com/projects/zig-a-zig-ah/ https://electrolama.com/projects/zig-a-zig-ah/ [2] https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io [3] https://www.home-assistant.io https://www.home-assistant.io [4] https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/guide/adapters/#recommended https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/guide/adapters/#recommended

hda2 4y ago

What are the implications of Matter on the privacy of my household? Will implementations require me to connect to the "cloud" or send "telemetry" to it, or will I be allowed to run this system completely isolated from the internet?

dang 4y ago

Comments moved to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33083413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33083413. Edit: I've been told that this article is the better one so am going to merge the thread hither.

tpoacher 4y ago
So you went hence thither and then thence hither again whence you came.

sandos 4y ago

Wait, is this a bad thing? "So while Matter makes it possible for Eve, a sensor and device company that historically only worked with Apple’s HomeKit ecosystem, to finally work on Android devices, it also means that Eve’s competitors can work with the same ecosystems while offering cheaper devices that may not cover all of Eve’s cool features such as energy monitoring." I mean who wants more choice of devices, and cheaper ones at that?

joshspankit 4y ago

Mainly I’m concerned that there is little or no Matter support in Tasmota/ESPHome/WLED or other firmwares that target the ESP8266/ESP32. It’s the perfect fit, and the market is literally crying for it. The fact that the community has not jumped in with both feet is.. unsettling.