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Are You Intellectually Humble?
- flippinburgers 4y agoGiven that I have failed more in life than succeeded, I don't really have much of a choice in the matter.
- jdthedisciple 4y agoI feel you bro - whatchu code when ya ain't flippin' burgers?!
- d--b 4y agoThe world is full of leaders who are everything but humble.
- bmitc 4y agoI feel and certainly hope so, but I also feel there have been no positive consequences for it. I think the only positive feedback along these lines (not that it had any positive consequences) was way back when I was a course assistant and instructor during graduate school in mathematics, and it came in the form of student reviews.
- moffkalast 4y ago"I, too, am extraordinarily humble."
- _aaed 4y agoYou clearly don't get the concept
- TheCapeGreek 4y agoUnsure if your own comment is sarcastic, but GP's quote is from Drax in Guardians of the Galaxy.
- Shorel 4y agoI like the quote in its use of sarcasm to emphasize a point. I completely dislike that its apparent value also comes because it's a quote from a comedic character in a comedy film. I mean, that diminishes its value as sarcasm, and it becomes just a canned answer.
- BLKNSLVR 4y agoHow appropriate, you fight like a cow
- WalterBright 4y agoI'm humbler than you are. Sheesh.
- jsd1982 4y agoWant to have a humble-off? Ok, you start first.
- mihaaly 4y agoI'm the humblest of all!
- spaetzleesser 4y agoI am extraordinarily-er humbler.
- CRConrad 4y ago
- plaguepilled 4y ago"Knowing you are a dumbass is the path to doing a bunch clever shit" - Sun Tzu, 1999
- orangepanda 4y agoDoes Betteridge's law of headlines apply here? > Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.
- andrewclunn 4y agoEDIT - formatting poetry for Hacker News is tough... - Humility - Humility is not letting someone win or pretending not to care when you lose. It is not feigned ignorance or polite dishonesty. Humility is not a trick to gain approval, nor is it an abdication of your pride. --- Humility is a stand taken to the end with passion; an opinion that you choose and live by with conviction and integrity, but if shown to be in error in part or full, and that the truth not be on your side... --- you change your mind. --- And furthermore you admit it publicly and you learn from it internally. Never let passion to stand up for truth fade. Don't let desire for becoming right be outweighed by undeserved pride. --- Sincere pride, real humility, true integrity; they are one and the same. --- The true integrity is tough and admits its errors Value your sincerity enough to live your values Only then is real pride obtained or the admiration of anyone, whose opinion is worth a damn, gained.
- matwood 4y agoStrong opinions, loosely held.
- andrewclunn 4y agoDarn it, that is a more timely and better title isn't it? Of course then Bezos could claim he inspired it.
- ASlave2Gravity 4y agoBeautiful! :D Thank you for sharing!
- jesuscript 4y agoDepends. Vigorous debate and experimenting does not come from humility. It comes from conviction. Humility is an end game, you can only reach for it when you accept that you are wrong (at the end of the argument) and likewise, when you win and don’t parade it and acknowledge the merits of the other side. But during the process, no, there can be no humility. You have to fight.
- memling 4y ago> Depends. Vigorous debate and experimenting does not come from humility. It comes from conviction. Humility is an end game, you can only reach for it when you accept that you are wrong (at the end of the argument) and likewise, when you win and don’t parade it and acknowledge the merits of the other side. This isn't true. Humility is accurate self-assessment, and from here can easily spring conviction, experimentation, and vigorous debate. (I know my opinions on subject X are well formed and tested by trial, error, and experience; that is why I hold such and such an opinion and can debate about it with conviction. It's also why I can take corrective measures and understand what others are saying, etc., etc.) Indeed, humility is basically a prerequisite to adequate debate. One of the problems of society is that we don't get this.
- cheschire 4y agoI’ve noticed in myself and anecdotally in others that a lot of stubbornness in conversation simply comes from the desire for validation. Having someone acknowledge what I’m saying is generally enough to get a conversation moving forward, where ignoring or not responding to my input can cause me to fixate until I recognize what I’m doing and break myself out of it. But if I feel mild validation, even if it is concluded with a “no”, I’m far more likely to consider myself having reacted “humbly” and more openly during the introspection I am forced to have at 3:45am the following morning. Maybe this was all a tangential comment, but that’s the thought that was sparked by this post.
- noduerme 4y agoJust to be contrary, it's possible that you're reading too much into other people's responses if you're actually beating yourself up in the middle of the night about what someone meant or didn't. Check out existential therapy. I'm not saying this to pathologize or minimize what you're saying, just that it's something I used to suffer from before I realized via (said therapy) that everyone else is just a narcissistic fuck living in their own narrative and they literally don't even remember what you said six hours later. It's very liberating once you absorb that. (obviously, what you write on the internet is forever, but that's kind of why you should be so much less anxious about your conversations IRL).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cheschire 4y agoOh my introspection isn’t self flagellation. I don’t think about ways I could’ve improved my talking. It’s more in the same vein as how I will go back and look at projects I’ve completed a few times after I’ve finished. Or even like listening to a song that has been stuck in my head for a few hours. It’s a way of closing the loop, mentally. It allows me to move on and not have this subconscious stress nagging at me for weeks after a significant interaction. But yeah I’ll look into existential therapy. Thanks!
- BoxOfRain 4y ago
- neilv 4y agoI'm unquestionably so! https://www.theonion.com/monk-gloats-over-yoga-championship-1819563855 https://www.theonion.com/monk-gloats-over-yoga-championship-...
- Silverback_VII 4y agoThe only advantage I see at beeing humble is that it does not offend people with low self-esteem. One only needs to say to be good at something or to be proud of something to trigger some people. More so in Europe than in the States I think.
- m12k 4y agoIt also helps you brainhack yourself into learning more thing, and being more open to other people's perspectives. Not all of these will be valuable, but some of them will be, immensely so. If you have success based solely on your own perspective, it's easy to think you have it all figured out already and overlook where there's room for improvement and outside input.
- Silverback_VII 4y agoNot sure about it. To set higher standards for yourself than for others is already a form of arrogance but you will ultimately improve faster. Grasses are not so happy when a tree starts to grow between them.
- Jensson 4y agoA critical component to learning is letting other people see your thoughts and ideas and get them to criticise them. This part is much much easier to do if you aren't humble about it, you only need a tiny bit of humility to read and understand others ideas, anything above that will just hurt your ability to learn. The most common thing people do is the opposite of the above. They are humble with their own ideas and are scared to show them to people, while they are confident in shooting down others ideas so they don't learn that well from listening. Even people who see themselves as humble are usually following this worst of the worst strategy.
- jesuscript 4y agoThe biggest problem is you deny yourself the process of attaining true humility if you put up a “act as if” facade of being humble. It’s a falsehood, what you mean to say is you are being non-confrontational. There is a process in attaining humility, you cannot just adorn yourself in it from the start.
- poulpy123 4y agoNo, I'm just stupid
- WalterBright 4y agoBut how can a humble person accomplish something extraordinary? At some point, you gotta have faith in what you're doing, despite all the opposition. Very rarely are accomplishments made traveling a road strewn with flowers.
- wdurden 4y agoBut there are always counterexamples too ... Stephen Wolframs and Nassim Talebs
- throw_nbvc1234 4y agoIf you're being proved right, why change your mind? If it's too early to have data, then keep going. If data is starting to go against you, then intellectual humility will allow you to pivot to a better direction. Intellectual humility is not at the expense of intellectual rigor, it's what enables it. It's the difference between creating a high quality and fair experiment and creating one that's more likely to give you the result you want. It's less about "I'm wrong i need to listen to everyone and rethink my opinions all the time", its "I could be wrong. If i see "data" that goes against my opinion, i should consider changing my opinion rather then assuming the data is wrong". Or just agree to disagree and implicitly don't assume the person disagreeing with you is an idiot/morally_bankrupt/etc... The article touches on this from the perspective of threat but people have a tendency to lie to themselves; which is why so many mechanisms in experiments and medical studies exist to force intellectual humility into the process.
- memling 4y ago> But how can a humble person accomplish something extraordinary? At some point, you gotta have faith in what you're doing, despite all the opposition. Humility means accurate self-assessment. People will argue this point, I suppose, conflating humility with meekness (and meekness with weakness), but I think a distinction is both correct and worthwhile. Therefore, humble people can accomplish extraordinary things as well as (or better than) anyone, perhaps because of their accurate self assessments. This leads to interconnection (I'm good at X, not at Y) and complementarity: I strengthen what is weak in you and vice versa, and we develop in partnership in a way that could not be done separately.
- qpqpdbdbqpqp 4y ago"The outcome of too much humility is that you end up listening to the counsel of some mediocre individual." Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406)
- dejj 4y agoCan you cite this quote in its original language? I'd be interested to read it. Google translate gives me: "نتيجة الكثير من التواضع هي أن ينتهي بك الأمر بالاستماع إلى مشورة شخص متوسط المستوى."
- spaetzleesser 4y agoVery true. I try to stay humble but at work I definitely have lists of people I always listen to and a (longer) list of people I generally never listen to. Maybe they have a good thought from time to time but I don’t have enough time to listen to all bad ideas to maybe find the one good idea.
- 29athrowaway 4y agoWhat if one of the people you never listen to comes up with a good idea? The people you listen to is always right and the ones you don't listen to are always wrong?
- dasil003 4y agoAlways be listening. But when seeking people out and prioritizing who to spend time with, consider their track record.
- spaetzleesser 4y agoI sometimes feel bad to have a prejudice against some pople but realistically i don't have the time and energy to sift through a lot of bad ideas when I can talk to other people who usually have good ideas.
- 29athrowaway 4y ago
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoA bit unrelated, but one pet peeve of mine these days is the explosion of humble brag. It used to be a little annoying, but it's now everywhere. Name dropping, inserting casually possessions, social status or achievements, using "I'm humbled by" all the time... Doing your best to not sound pretentious is great. I wish I worked on that way sooner. But faking humility, often badly, is such a mood killer for me. I also think it comes with 2 trends that are rampant in social media, and runs especially deep in the US culture: - adding virtue signaling to every interaction. - using superlative for the most mondain things. It's an instant credibility killer for me. But the problem is... for a lot of people, it seems to work.
- dexterdog 4y agoI have worked with a number of people who are like that and nobody seems to notice which drives me nuts so it can't be addressed. I have one of those now and I just have to make sure we stay on different teams. The combination of a massive ego and the skill to mask it create a truly terrible person.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoStay off of LinkedIn, then. That seems to be the place people practice it[0]. I don't humblebrag, and it doesn't win me friends. There's some things that I'm really, really good at, and lots of things that I'm mediocre, to really bad, at. I don't hide any of it. Most folks on venues like this, assume I'm arrogant (I'm not). I just don't pretend to be bad at stuff I'm good at, and don't pretend to be good at stuff I'm bad at. That seems to be an aberration, in today's world. I'm not looking for work or friends. I don't participate in any social media, outside of this place (an occasional update on Facebook or LinkedIn. Almost never Twitter, Instagram, etc.). I just hang out here, because there aren't many tech people around my neck of the woods, and I'm quite impressed by many of you. I participate, because I feel a sense of duty to do so (If I want to be a member, I should act like a member). [0] https://twitter.com/StateOfLinkedIn https://twitter.com/StateOfLinkedIn
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoBTW: I really enjoyed this site (linked from the above Twitter account): https://viralpostgenerator.com https://viralpostgenerator.com I won't share mine (this is a professional venue, and my "viral" post was definitely not professional).
- roguas 4y agono
- yuvalr1 4y agoSome of the comments here discuss humbleness in general, which is different from what this post is about. The article talks about being intellectually humble, and defines it as the ability to self reflect and accept the possibility that you are wrong. It is different from the standard context of being humble, which is usually to avoid bragging about own's success. Being able to accept own's mistakes, even when you're sure you're right, is another, big, step forward.
- LAC-Tech 4y agoI was expecting a quiz :(
- _8j50 4y agoAs a principle I agree with this but some environments make it possible. If your intellectual humility is almost guaranteed to be used against you as weakness and liability then such hostile environments mean you must at least fake arrogance. But in my experience, the rare time it was encouraged to say "i don't know" and "I was wrong" were also the times when I was around the most competent and talented people.
- mihaaly 4y agoYes, and leave that hostile environment at the earlies possibility for good!
- 7uOctt0p 4y agoIntellectually humble people is a rarity these days, In contrast you have an abundance of [1]Intellectual bullies which are very popular toxic crowd in places like twitter/reddit and sadly even on HN. [1]http://paul-m-jones.com/post/2008/11/07/patterns-of-intellectual-bullies/ http://paul-m-jones.com/post/2008/11/07/patterns-of-intellec...
- wawjgreen 4y ago
- hackererror404 4y agoBeing in software development, I have no choice! Feel like every time I blink there is a new something to learn. After working in this field for 14 years I am still very much a newbie.
- responsible 4y agoGood teachers equip you with tools used to dispute their own conclusions. Worldviews should be malleable and subject to change. The ability to see things from different perspectives goes a long way in being able to question rigid thoughts.
- flerchin 4y agoI'm the most humble. Humbler than all y'all.
- booleandilemma 4y agoI've found that too much humility gets you bullied, or people try to take advantage of you, instead of playing nice. I'm talking about in the workplace, but it's been consistent at every place I've worked. I have to act slightly like an asshole otherwise people come at me like wolves.
- hourago 4y ago> I've found that too much humility gets you bullied That depends a lot on your environment. There are many companies were this happens, upper management nurtures an unhealthy environment were abuse is common and people need to be defensive. If you ever work in a healthy place, or if you have good friends, the possibility to just lower all barriers and be humble is liberating and it fosters creativity. > I have to act slightly like an asshole otherwise people come at me like wolves. I am sorry to hear that. I have worked in both kind of places and the mental health going home is vastly different. I hope you get a better working place that not only is healthier but will allow you to learn more, be more creative and productive instead of losing your time acting like an asshole because is required.
- ManuelKiessling 4y agoThe only thing greater than my intellect is my humility.
- cainxinth 4y agoI didn’t set out to be, but experience has tended to push me in that direction.
- motohagiography 4y agoWhen I am great enough to be humble, you'll know. I like the sentiment of the article, though I have become personally suspicious of much self effacement. Most of being smart is being open to becoming smarter, which means actively seeking out having your mind changed. Being wrong in public is one of the fastest ways to get elusive answers as well, though admittedly the openness can deprive people of the satisfaction of correcting you, and they can quickly stop offering solutions and become resentful. Sticking your neck out on being stupid often yields commensurate rewards in the correction. Counter to the effacing humility prescribed by the article, I'd propose being bold in your questions and initiative at trying things yourself and being so terrible at them that someone sees what you are trying to do and corrects it. YMMV, but while humility gets reliable results in small groups (and I do value and respect it), I'd defy anyone to give an example of something that scales faster than being stupid. I would ask whether it's the confidence or obliviousness for acting and iterating in ignorance that yields experience.
- djhaskin987 4y agoI mean, no. I think I'm humble enough to realize that I'm not.
- enviclash 4y agoOne of the most difficult things is to know when it's really good to be humble and when it's really good to assert yourself. None of them work the whole time.
- bluGill 4y agoExodus 20:3 (KJV) "thou shalt have no other gods before me". As a Christian I'm forbidden form holding any belief that isn't directly in the bible and not a provable fact. It is amazing how many people claim to believe the bible, but then add a ton of beliefs on top of it that are not from the bible.
- CRConrad 4y ago> As a Christian I'm forbidden form holding any belief that isn't directly in the bible and not a provable fact. Which is it -- "not in the bible", or "not a provable fact"? Because if it's both, that's a paradox.
- CedarMills 4y agoNot sure if troll or not but as you might know, there are different levels to Christianity. I'm not the kind of person to say all paths leads to Rome but I do believe that there are variables to a Christian life and every single person's journey will be different.
- bluGill 4y agoTrue, but there are a number of things some Christians say that they don't try to call Christian.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- theknocker 4y ago
- tpoacher 4y ago“Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it’s thinking of yourself less.”
- my12pence 4y agoReminds me of James 1:19 "... Everyone must be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger". I've often found this useful to remember when talking to people with different views.
- musicale 4y agoI think of the difference between: Tim Cook: "We think you'll love this." vs. Steve Jobs: "It's insanely great!" Given Apple's massive success I think they can afford to be more Cook-like, but a bit of Jobs-style fire, egomania, overconfidence and iconoclasm might help out when you're trying to transform an industry like PCs (Macintosh, iMac), audio players (iPod), or smartphones (iPhone). Though Jobs also had the seemingly (but not actually) humble "one more thing..." I don't see a lot of humility - intellectual or otherwise - in Elon Musk, for example. But Musk's arrogance, like Jobs', is also backed up by ability to actually do things. And the ability to change one's mind, especially in the face of evidence, seems to be important. I have also observed that effective self-promotion moves some people ahead of their humbler but more qualified peers.
- As_You_Wish 4y agoI like to think so, but I sure detest the fake humble people, who deny that they know anything. This whole "I know nothing, like, not even that 1+1=2" kind of attitude or this borderline "the universe is holy and I must be in awe of it because it makes me sound deep and that I am humble, when really this is all a show to make others think that I'm intellectually humbler than they are." I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but I just think there's a lot of overweening fake humbleness going on. "Oh, the universe is so big, how can we be so arrogant that we think we know everything, the universe is a wonderous place and we are so small and limited, and blah, blah, blah." Yeah, I get it already. Heard it the first million times how wonderous you think the universe is and how loudly and strenuously you proclaim to know nothing because you heard it is cool to say that you don't know nothing about nothing. It's like humble bragging, but humble humbling. I mean, we know that the entire universe's matter is made up of the periodic table through spectroscopy (not counting dark matter, just "regular" matter). It's not like there's going to be whisky atoms or pizza atoms so that there's just a lake of whisky somewhere. You are not going to be able to have animals made of Xenon or Argon or Neon or any of the other noble inert gases. I think there is a lot of shit to learn and it is fun and interesting and I love it. But there's no reason to act with such fake reverence and like it is a holy universe. It's just flucking stuff that we need to learn about. It's not a god to pray to. Do you all hate me now that I'm ruining all your universe reverence? I don't know, man, it just bugs me to no end the whole "we know nothing" bow your head in fake humility thing so you can fit into the "I don't know crowd" and be a popular cool kid, too.
- gkfasdfasdf 4y ago"The most elementary and valuable statement in Science, the beginning of wisdom is: "I do not know. I do not know what that is, Sir." -Data https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eDYVtPwWiM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eDYVtPwWiM