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My personnal experience. I come back from a trip in romania - bucharest. At first I didn't take Uber but tried for the regular Taxi from the airport. All of the

My personnal experience. I come back from a trip in romania - bucharest. At first I didn't take Uber but tried for the regular Taxi from the airport. All of them requesting ~40USD. At the end I go with one who put the meter and indeed arrived to 200 Lei (~40 USD). I payed in euro because I didn't have enough local currency, hopefully I had some and the driver accept. Taking some information it's way too much, but would I have argue with how the meter was operating anyway? Now, I need to comeback to the airport at 4am. So instead, I reserve a airport transfer from the airline itself, pay in advance something like 30 USD this time. And... no one show up at 4am. Mobile phone of the transfer is not answering... I never heard of them * So I install Uber, hopefully it's working, enter my visa (from my country, no need for local currency at all), after 10 minutes, someone very nice take me and I just paid like 15 USD to get to the airport, at 5 in the morning, with the invoice by mail. How do you compete with that? Taxi business need to reflect. And every country is the same strangely, it's as universal than taxes: you can't escape! * Edit: In fact I know what happened, and there is nothing to do, because I looked at the invoice and on the third page of the voucher PDF there, it's said that I needed to call 24h before to confirm the transfer... They don't call, you have to call. Even after the first confirmation I already did for confirming the pickup address some days before, I wasn't feeling paranoid enough. So you can't say nothing because I didn't read the last page, but it's a dumb heavy process, do people changes their mind and decide to live forever in the country frequently?

croes 4y ago
The fewer workers' rights, the cheaper a product or service can be. And Uber drivers aren't even considered working for Uber, so no social benefit and health care from Uber.
wildmanx 4y ago
> How do you compete with that? Taxi business need to reflect. Did you read the article? The reason this worked for you is that you benefited from exploiting some underpaid soul that was up at 5 in the morning to barely scrape by.
henrydark 4y ago
The leak should also make us suspicious of strawman stories about how good Uber is.
marricks 4y ago
This reply has nothing to do with Uber’s war on workers or how they bribed government officials. Glad Uber got you where you wanted to go though, put your email in your bio and maybe they’ll ask you to write a tweet for them.
mseidl 4y ago
I've never had a taxi not show up in Germany. They've been fine here.
capableweb 4y ago
And on the other hand, plenty of stories of the opposite happening. I'm not sure how much anecdotes add to a story like this. Especially when the story here is not about if Uber is offering a better service to customers than "normal" taxis, but when the story is about that Uber is exploiting their employees (which they refuse to even call "employees"). If one business offers better service than another, but, the first business exploits their employees, which service should be investigated? I'd agree the second business should be aiming at improving their service, of course, but we also need to clamp down on businesses who are exploiting people.
- V-2 4y ago
  > which they refuse to even call "employees" They aren't quite "employees" given that they can reject my trip request without needing to provide any excuse, which by the way happens frustratingly often esp. during rush hours. I'd like to see an actual employee do that - like a waiter in a restaurant ("nah, I won't serve you, I'm busy and don't feel like it"); you'd have a word with their boss. And when things don't work that way, we're probably talking about some form of freelancing. Like a barber renting a chair at a barbershop. He (or she) is not an employee of the barbershop owner, as implied by the fact you can't really complain to the owner if they refuse to serve you.
  - jameshart 4y ago
    If they couldn’t reject your trip request, that would make them your employee. Plenty of businesses give their employees discretion on which customers to serve.
  - soco 4y ago
    So you have never been refused the ride by a taxi driver? Or being left waiting by a waiter?
  - capableweb 4y ago
    > They aren't quite "employees" given that they can reject my trip request without needing to provide any excuse, which by the way happens frustratingly often esp. during rush hours. Doing so enough times will lead to Uber penalizing the driver. Does that sound like a freelancer to you? Obviously, the definition will change depending on the country. Referring to a previous court case UK (Employment Tribunal: Uber BV v. Aslam), this is why they think Uber drivers are employees, not freelancers: > Uber set the fare which meant that they dictated how much drivers could earn > Uber set the contract terms and drivers had no say in them > Request for rides is constrained by Uber who can penalise drivers if they reject too many rides > Uber monitors a driver's service through the star rating and has the capacity to terminate the relationship if after repeated warnings this does not improve With those things in mind, it's hard to not feel like Uber drivers are in fact employees of Uber, not freelancers that can freely engage in business while only being "supported" by Uber or using Ubers app.
ABNW 4y ago
Complete opposite experience for me in Spain. Uber wanted €35 euro. Local taxi's wanted €15
- spaniard89277 4y ago
  Taxis in Spain are generally ok. Not always, but the offer an acceptable service, and services like Uber etc are not really competitive.
  - nativespecies 4y ago
    Ride Now in Spain is where its at. Very cheap, easy, friendly. Reliable cabs in a few mins or less.
ekianjo 4y ago
> Taxi business need to reflect. They don't have to reflect, politicians work hard day and night to ensure there is never any competition.
- soco 4y ago
  If competition means workers exploitation, then I don't have a problem with those politics. A happy driver will be less rude to passengers too.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > A happy driver will be less rude to passengers too. You probably don't take taxis enough
themitigating 4y ago
My personal experience is that it's been cheaper than a taxi, drivers have been nice, cars show up quickly, and the app makes it easier than telling someone on the phone, who may have trouble understanding me, where to go. However my personal experiences have no value in a discussion of this leak. It's irrelevant whether consumers likes a companies product when discussing rules and regulations.
- jstanley 4y ago
  > It's irrelevant whether consumers likes a companies product when discussing rules and regulations. Creating the kind of world we want to live in should be the sole purpose of rules and regulations. How people want to live shouldn't play second fiddle to what rules and regulations say. Rules and regulations can be changed.
  - yourusername 4y ago
    It's not only about the comfort of the people trying to book a cheap taxi. When creating the kind of world we want to live in we also need to consider the working conditions of the drivers and the regulations society wants to impose on cabs to make sure they operate safely and without nuisance.
    - ttjjtt 4y ago
      I’m uncomfortable to see that this statement seems genuinely needed in all of HN’s threads on this topic. One could easily get the impression that the HN crowd find it hard to empathize with the service worker. There’s real truth in the terrible service flaws of the previous taxi system, but the employment flaws of Uber are being smothered with the service improvements they’ve introduced. That’s not the only issue worth caring about.
      - Jensson 4y ago
        I don't see why this is bad for workers? Is it the 20% cut, then what if Uber took 5% cut instead of 20%? Could easily create such a regulation for rideshare services, and then you have a job anyone can start doing at any moment with no management layers or hassle or job interviews etc, just start earning money instantly. Having workers tie themselves to a company for 40 hours a week being the only valid way to make money is conservative thinking, be a bit progressive and see how much freedom this potentially opens up for workers.
jonatron 4y ago
My personal experience recently. Needed a taxi to the airport. Opened uber, it said about £90, which seemed a bit expensive. Tried a local minicab company, there were no cars. Opened uber again, the price had gone up to about £150. Tried another local company, they were there within 10 mins and wanted £60. Opened uber again, the price had gone up to about £250.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Sounds like free market is working. Demand goes up so does the price. Everyone wins. Hopefully the drivers get better price and the consumer can choose if they want a ride or not.
  - jonatron 4y ago
    Well everyone except Uber wins, because I deleted it.
    - andsoitis 4y ago
      Did you end up getting a ride to the airport in time for your flight?
  - emsixteen 4y ago
    Surge pricing is a disgrace.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      True, there should be no need for automated system, but instead it should be auction for next available driver slot. So those who pay more get the ride faster.
      - emsixteen 4y ago
        I don't think I'm a fan of that either, but compared to the predatory approach now it'd still be a lot better.
Aeolun 4y ago
Japan’s taxi companies just banded together and made an Uber like app to call taxies (including paying ahead, so you know exactly what it’s going to cost). I never need to take an uber any more. The cars and drivers are all professional, and they’re often closer than any Uber. They (Uber) solved it by completely dominating the food delivery landscape with Uber Eats.
- harambae 4y ago
  Thailand did the same, except they banded together to have overpriced fares (intended for tourists, the locals don't use the app)
  - mathverse 4y ago
    Huh? The only overpriced taxis in Thailand are on the islands. And that's sort of understandable the islands are disney land for tourists.
    - harambae 4y ago
      Yes, the islands. Where I was, as a tourist. Are most of the silicon valley programmers on this forum native Thai citizens?
      - mathverse 4y ago
        The economy of taxis on the islands dont make any sense. Most people drive motorbikes that are freaking cheap so taxis exist there only for tourists. In Bangkok taxis are super cheap for everyone and it never happened to me that someone tried to cheat me (and I am quintessential white man)
- dchftcs 4y ago
  Japan taxis were very nice to begin with, taxi drivers are uniformed and trained in manners.
- andrepd 4y ago
hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
In my country, I get the opposite experience. Most Uber drivers are from Bangladesh and other faraway countries - and it would be great if they knew the local language. Sometimes they don't even speak English. They don't even own the cars they drive: they are farmed like animals, sleeping many people in one room etc. - and they have to give a part of their salary to people who brought them here. I feel sorry for them, and I really support the ones who drive UberEats, but when they start transporting people, it's a completely different story.The worst happens when they cause an accident, there are many videos of them running away. I don't blame them at all, I realize their life at home was even worse. But I blame the people who made this situation possible and put the lives of others at risk.
swores 4y ago
I don't know when your anecdote is from, nor what Uber's timeline/strategy is/was in Romania, but... They are (in)famous for using lots and lots of venture capital money to subsidize their fares for customers when entering new markets, using those low prices as loss-making user acquisition, and then eventually (and likely gradually) raising their prices once they have enough regular users - often having killed off some of the local competition who couldn't compete with the VC-subsidized prices Uber arrived with. > How do you compete with that? Taxi business need to reflect. And every country is the same strangely, it's as universal than taxes: you can't escape! Reflecting doesn't do much when your competitor can afford to sell every journey at a loss until you go out of business before then putting their prices up to what you're currently charging. Yes, in some places Uber's arrival did either bring a better service or scare local taxis into doing better (e.g. lots of local firms now offer app-based booking and are just as reliable as Uber), and in some places taxis were so overpriced that Uber could genuinely offer a better service for a lower price and be profitable. But the vast majority of the times they offer cheaper prices, especially when it's such a big difference as in your story, it's a temporary (perhaps for months or years) strategy not something to expect to stay cheap. Enjoy using their services half paid for by investors while you can! Edit: There don't seem to be many recent news articles that go into details, as it was known about so many years ago that most articles talking about these leaks just acknowledge this to be fact (e.g. in this very article we're in comments thread of, "At the same moment as Uber’s service deteriorates and the subsidy that helped it decimate taxis evaporates [... continues on about other stuff]") But here's an interesting snippet from a court case that alleged this against them in the US where the judge basically agreed but said it wasn't to be point of being illegal. From https://casetext.com/case/sc-innovations-inc-v-uber-techs-2 https://casetext.com/case/sc-innovations-inc-v-uber-techs-2 > The Court held that Sidecar's allegation of a relevant market—app-based ride-hailing services, excluding taxis—was sufficiently plausible to survive a motion to dismiss. Id. at 10-11. The Court also rejected suggestions by Uber that Sidecar had not alleged below-cost pricing, id. at 12, as well as arguments that Uber's delayed entry to the non-limousine ride-hailing market and asserted pro-competitive purposes were sufficient for dismissal at the pleading stage, id. at 16-18. The Court nevertheless dismissed Sidecar's Sherman Act claims for failure to provide sufficient allegations of market power, particularly its failure to allege "that Uber has the power to raise market prices above competitive levels simply by reducing its own output, or that Lyft"—allegedly Uber's only remaining competitor—"could not respond to such a reduction by increasing its own output." Id. at 12-14. Absent such allegations, the Court held that Sidecar alleged no more than a "disciplined oligopoly," which the Ninth Circuit has held insufficient to state a claim for either monopolization or attempted monopolization, due to "a gap in the Sherman Act that allows oligopolies to slip past its prohibitions,"
mancerayder 4y ago
France made me pro-Uber. The taxis in Paris are arrogant, entitled and even bullies. I've seen them smoke in the car, refuse to turn down the radio, and other shenanigans. Not to mention they're often not around when you need them. Maybe Big Taxi needed a shakeup worldwide. Although the other day I sat in sick in a Lyft before work, and I ended up getting only 5 dollars credit for the privilege of smelling all day around people.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  It very much depends. In South Africa? I’ll take an Uber every time, those cabs are scary. In Germany? Even if Uber existed, I’d take a cab.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  And why should you get to decide what they do in their work place? Isn't that infinite entitlement?
  - Consultant32452 4y ago
    I don't get to decide what they do in their work place, but I do get to decide to opt for their competition that provides a more pleasant experience.
  - scatters 4y ago
    Their workplace is the public street. Of course we should get to decide how they operate.
- croes 4y ago
  This shakeup hits the drivers the hardest.
- acatton 4y ago
  > France made me pro-Uber. The taxis in Paris are arrogant, entitled and even bullies. I've seen them smoke in the car, refuse to turn down the radio, and other shenanigans. Not to mention they're often not around when you need them. I'm… speechless… Can I ask how often and during which time period you took the Taxi in Paris? I've never had or even heard of such experience, I always had the same quality of service of Taxi in Paris as in Germany. (= very good quality) I'll admit that I just take it twice a year when I go visit my aunt. But my brother lived for 7 years in Paris in the 2000s, and I've never heard him complain outside of the price. I'm genuinely surprised by what you're saying (Yes I am a native french speaker), if you didn't have such a good comment history I would have assumed you were an Uber comment farm account.
Nursie 4y ago
My personal experience in Perth, Western Australia - My partner and I need to get home from where she works, we use the uber app, and it quotes us $35. It's a little pricey for a 12 minute journey, but whatever. A driver accepts. We watch as that driver drives in circles, then appears to come towards us, then turns away again. There is no extra stop listed. He keeps doing it, just going round and round, stopping for a while, driving away again. After 15 minutes of this, we cancel to see if we can re-book with a different driver. Suddenly - "Surge pricing!" it's now $45. So we install the local cab app (Thanks Swan Taxis), their app is definitely worse, but we get a quote for $25 and the cab arrives in under 5 minutes. How do you compete with that? Uber business need to reflect. It's the same every time.
samsonradu 4y ago
At 40USD you got 'scammed', even with the meter, as the regular price should not go over 20$. Up until ~2016 the airport taxi business was the wild west, with a lot of shady/unauthorized drivers operating there. Things got much better now, unauthorized cabs can't access the Arrivals area, there are machines to order an authorized cab and authorities clamped down on the use of buggy taxi meters.
susanasj 4y ago
I agree with complaints about the taxi industry in many cities. However this article is about the workers at these companies, not the consumer experience.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  All of the Uber threads get turned into taxi-bashing (and consequently taxi-defending) threads. It's absolutely an intentional distraction.
BLanen 4y ago
I had 0 issues with taxis in Romania, but I wasn't in Bucharest
jillesvangurp 4y ago
Especially in countries where you might reasonably expect to be ripped off by the likes of taxi drivers, Uber is great because it just eliminates all haggling over fees, tips, etc. You know what you pay ahead of time and there's a big incentive for the driver to honor the deal and get their tip plus five star rating. There are similar applications for different markets of course. But Uber has the international brand recognition. Worth investigating what app works best before you go somewhere.
- capableweb 4y ago
  So you're saying that you're OK with the trade-off that instead of a taxi driver possibly charging you higher for a trip, you're willing to let Uber exploit their own employees? Since the story here is not about if Uber is better/worse for passengers but if Uber is a good/bad employer, it sounds like that's what you're saying.
  - Majestic121 4y ago
    Yes, absolutely, I'll take a company that exploit their employees over an overregulated industry keeping competition out while encouraging shady business practices like haggling and scamming tourists and locals alike, any time of the day. If the choice to have good service + no exploitation arise, I'll take that one, and it's coming thanks to Uber bursting the taxi monopoly, but in the meanwhile no regrets, taxis had it coming.
    - jillesvangurp 4y ago
      Exactly, I've been scammed a few times too often for me to shed any crocodile tears for old school taxi drivers. Most Uber drivers I've dealt with seem happy enough with the steady flow of rides and tips. Eager even. I don't think that Uber is actually that un-popular with drivers.
  - savant_penguin 4y ago
    An Uber driver in his way to being exploited: Wake up, decide it's a good day to be exploited. Kiss your wife goodbye as you enter your car "bye honey! On my way to being exploited by Uber!" Drive away and open your exploitation app. Accept a ride, go to the person: "who's the person that's going to participate in my exploitation together with Uber today? Oh, there he is!". Drive him to the place he needs to be, drive away. "Ok, do I want to be exploited some more today?" Decide to be exploited on a few more rides and return home. Now being serious, if you're an Uber driver and let's say that in the short term that's your best option, why would it be better for him to have this option striped from him? Why do you think anyone else should make that call except him?
andrepd 4y ago
I don't understand this comment. The article is about attacks on worker's rights. Your comment is a personal anecdote about how taxis sucked in a trip you had. What is the relation between the two, and how is this not flagrant off-topic?
medo-bear 4y ago
here is my opinion. taxis have been a shady business (esp in eastern europe) for way too long. something like uber was simply bound to come and shake things up. uber offered a customer friendly service and employed people that needed to earn some extra cash. but here is the problem: they were too good. they killed the taxi industry, whose workers didnt drive taxis for extra cash but to provide for their familys. so now you have taxi drivers without work. who do they turn to for employment? they turn to uber/bolt or whoever killed their previous employer. so now uber doesnt employ people who just need to earn extra cash but drivers who use this occupation as sole means to provide for their family. and you know what? uber sucks as that type of employer
usr1106 4y ago
So because you have bad experience with taxis you feel entitled to exploit unprivileged workers instead? I don't doubt that taxis can be problematic in many places. Typically they reflect the social conditions of where they operate. Inequality, poor education, corruption in general mean that taxis in such location are not a good experience. And then highly paid people like many HN readers are just not willing to do the math: A taxi driver (or Uber driver) will not be able to drive all working day long. They have to wait for new passengers a significant part of their working time. So expect that when you use them you need to pay at least twice the rate for a normal employee. Deprecation and maintenace for a car is not cheap. And again the customer also needs to pay it for the time the vehicle is not moving, not just for the time they are travelling. The latter is even worse for Uber. Private cars don't have several drivers. Traditional taxis have (at least in this country), just to compensate for big part of fixed costs. Of course Uber externalizes those costs to their drivers.
- rayiner 4y ago
  > So because you have bad experience with taxis you feel entitled to exploit unprivileged workers instead? These are the same Dick Cheney acolytes saying “we need illegal immigration or else strawberries will cost too much.”
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    American strawberry farms would not exist without illegal immigration, that’s just a fact. No one would buy domestic strawberries picked by someone making an American wage when the imported strawberries cost half as much.
    - usr1106 4y ago
      So the American government / society works according the same principles as Uber does. Let's take the earnings ourselves by exploiting others in weak positions. They can stand for the costs and the risks.
    - usr1106 4y ago
decebalus1 4y ago
Ugh.. My personal experience. I come back from a trip in Romania. Arrive at Seatac, open the Uber app, it costs $100 for a trip to my house. Wait for my luggage to arrive, I open the app again, it's $120. I go outside the terminal and I find a town car service which was $60 for the same trip. Rewind 1 day, In Bucharest, I arrive at the hotel via taxi and tell the driver that I need to go to the airport at 4 in the morning. He's like 'great, I just started my shift. Here's my phone number, call me when you wake up, I'll be at the hotel within 15 minutes'. And he was.
jopsen 4y ago
I would say that pricing has a lot to do with the feasibility of taking a taxi.. having just visited India here is my comparison of cost for 1 hour to the airport: Denmark, using taxi 230 USD, need to call hours in advance. San Francisco, using Uber 40-50 USD. India, using Uber 10-20 USD. In Denmark taxis are so expensive there is few of them, so not only is the crazy expensive, it's very hard to find one when you need it. Uber did grow the market.
bengale 4y ago
The local taxis in my town don't seem to every want to take fares. They seem to be eternally waiting for a better offer and grumpy if you try to take what they consider to be a small trip. Never had that issue with Uber drivers.
badkarma1963 4y ago
Bucharest airport is a shitshow

croes 4y ago

The fewer workers' rights, the cheaper a product or service can be. And Uber drivers aren't even considered working for Uber, so no social benefit and health care from Uber.

wildmanx 4y ago

> How do you compete with that? Taxi business need to reflect. Did you read the article? The reason this worked for you is that you benefited from exploiting some underpaid soul that was up at 5 in the morning to barely scrape by.

henrydark 4y ago

The leak should also make us suspicious of strawman stories about how good Uber is.

marricks 4y ago

This reply has nothing to do with Uber’s war on workers or how they bribed government officials. Glad Uber got you where you wanted to go though, put your email in your bio and maybe they’ll ask you to write a tweet for them.

mseidl 4y ago

I've never had a taxi not show up in Germany. They've been fine here.

capableweb 4y ago

And on the other hand, plenty of stories of the opposite happening. I'm not sure how much anecdotes add to a story like this. Especially when the story here is not about if Uber is offering a better service to customers than "normal" taxis, but when the story is about that Uber is exploiting their employees (which they refuse to even call "employees"). If one business offers better service than another, but, the first business exploits their employees, which service should be investigated? I'd agree the second business should be aiming at improving their service, of course, but we also need to clamp down on businesses who are exploiting people.

V-2 4y ago
> which they refuse to even call "employees" They aren't quite "employees" given that they can reject my trip request without needing to provide any excuse, which by the way happens frustratingly often esp. during rush hours. I'd like to see an actual employee do that - like a waiter in a restaurant ("nah, I won't serve you, I'm busy and don't feel like it"); you'd have a word with their boss. And when things don't work that way, we're probably talking about some form of freelancing. Like a barber renting a chair at a barbershop. He (or she) is not an employee of the barbershop owner, as implied by the fact you can't really complain to the owner if they refuse to serve you.
- jameshart 4y ago
  If they couldn’t reject your trip request, that would make them your employee. Plenty of businesses give their employees discretion on which customers to serve.
- soco 4y ago
  So you have never been refused the ride by a taxi driver? Or being left waiting by a waiter?
- capableweb 4y ago
  > They aren't quite "employees" given that they can reject my trip request without needing to provide any excuse, which by the way happens frustratingly often esp. during rush hours. Doing so enough times will lead to Uber penalizing the driver. Does that sound like a freelancer to you? Obviously, the definition will change depending on the country. Referring to a previous court case UK (Employment Tribunal: Uber BV v. Aslam), this is why they think Uber drivers are employees, not freelancers: > Uber set the fare which meant that they dictated how much drivers could earn > Uber set the contract terms and drivers had no say in them > Request for rides is constrained by Uber who can penalise drivers if they reject too many rides > Uber monitors a driver's service through the star rating and has the capacity to terminate the relationship if after repeated warnings this does not improve With those things in mind, it's hard to not feel like Uber drivers are in fact employees of Uber, not freelancers that can freely engage in business while only being "supported" by Uber or using Ubers app.

ABNW 4y ago

Complete opposite experience for me in Spain. Uber wanted €35 euro. Local taxi's wanted €15

spaniard89277 4y ago
Taxis in Spain are generally ok. Not always, but the offer an acceptable service, and services like Uber etc are not really competitive.
- nativespecies 4y ago
  Ride Now in Spain is where its at. Very cheap, easy, friendly. Reliable cabs in a few mins or less.

ekianjo 4y ago

> Taxi business need to reflect. They don't have to reflect, politicians work hard day and night to ensure there is never any competition.

soco 4y ago
If competition means workers exploitation, then I don't have a problem with those politics. A happy driver will be less rude to passengers too.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > A happy driver will be less rude to passengers too. You probably don't take taxis enough

themitigating 4y ago

My personal experience is that it's been cheaper than a taxi, drivers have been nice, cars show up quickly, and the app makes it easier than telling someone on the phone, who may have trouble understanding me, where to go. However my personal experiences have no value in a discussion of this leak. It's irrelevant whether consumers likes a companies product when discussing rules and regulations.

jstanley 4y ago
> It's irrelevant whether consumers likes a companies product when discussing rules and regulations. Creating the kind of world we want to live in should be the sole purpose of rules and regulations. How people want to live shouldn't play second fiddle to what rules and regulations say. Rules and regulations can be changed.
- yourusername 4y ago
  It's not only about the comfort of the people trying to book a cheap taxi. When creating the kind of world we want to live in we also need to consider the working conditions of the drivers and the regulations society wants to impose on cabs to make sure they operate safely and without nuisance.
  - ttjjtt 4y ago
    I’m uncomfortable to see that this statement seems genuinely needed in all of HN’s threads on this topic. One could easily get the impression that the HN crowd find it hard to empathize with the service worker. There’s real truth in the terrible service flaws of the previous taxi system, but the employment flaws of Uber are being smothered with the service improvements they’ve introduced. That’s not the only issue worth caring about.
    - Jensson 4y ago
      I don't see why this is bad for workers? Is it the 20% cut, then what if Uber took 5% cut instead of 20%? Could easily create such a regulation for rideshare services, and then you have a job anyone can start doing at any moment with no management layers or hassle or job interviews etc, just start earning money instantly. Having workers tie themselves to a company for 40 hours a week being the only valid way to make money is conservative thinking, be a bit progressive and see how much freedom this potentially opens up for workers.

jonatron 4y ago

My personal experience recently. Needed a taxi to the airport. Opened uber, it said about £90, which seemed a bit expensive. Tried a local minicab company, there were no cars. Opened uber again, the price had gone up to about £150. Tried another local company, they were there within 10 mins and wanted £60. Opened uber again, the price had gone up to about £250.

Ekaros 4y ago
Sounds like free market is working. Demand goes up so does the price. Everyone wins. Hopefully the drivers get better price and the consumer can choose if they want a ride or not.
- jonatron 4y ago
  Well everyone except Uber wins, because I deleted it.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    Did you end up getting a ride to the airport in time for your flight?
- emsixteen 4y ago
  Surge pricing is a disgrace.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    True, there should be no need for automated system, but instead it should be auction for next available driver slot. So those who pay more get the ride faster.
    - emsixteen 4y ago
      I don't think I'm a fan of that either, but compared to the predatory approach now it'd still be a lot better.

Aeolun 4y ago

Japan’s taxi companies just banded together and made an Uber like app to call taxies (including paying ahead, so you know exactly what it’s going to cost). I never need to take an uber any more. The cars and drivers are all professional, and they’re often closer than any Uber. They (Uber) solved it by completely dominating the food delivery landscape with Uber Eats.

harambae 4y ago
Thailand did the same, except they banded together to have overpriced fares (intended for tourists, the locals don't use the app)
- mathverse 4y ago
  Huh? The only overpriced taxis in Thailand are on the islands. And that's sort of understandable the islands are disney land for tourists.
  - harambae 4y ago
    Yes, the islands. Where I was, as a tourist. Are most of the silicon valley programmers on this forum native Thai citizens?
    - mathverse 4y ago
      The economy of taxis on the islands dont make any sense. Most people drive motorbikes that are freaking cheap so taxis exist there only for tourists. In Bangkok taxis are super cheap for everyone and it never happened to me that someone tried to cheat me (and I am quintessential white man)
dchftcs 4y ago
Japan taxis were very nice to begin with, taxi drivers are uniformed and trained in manners.
andrepd 4y ago

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago

In my country, I get the opposite experience. Most Uber drivers are from Bangladesh and other faraway countries - and it would be great if they knew the local language. Sometimes they don't even speak English. They don't even own the cars they drive: they are farmed like animals, sleeping many people in one room etc. - and they have to give a part of their salary to people who brought them here. I feel sorry for them, and I really support the ones who drive UberEats, but when they start transporting people, it's a completely different story.The worst happens when they cause an accident, there are many videos of them running away. I don't blame them at all, I realize their life at home was even worse. But I blame the people who made this situation possible and put the lives of others at risk.

swores 4y ago

I don't know when your anecdote is from, nor what Uber's timeline/strategy is/was in Romania, but... They are (in)famous for using lots and lots of venture capital money to subsidize their fares for customers when entering new markets, using those low prices as loss-making user acquisition, and then eventually (and likely gradually) raising their prices once they have enough regular users - often having killed off some of the local competition who couldn't compete with the VC-subsidized prices Uber arrived with. > How do you compete with that? Taxi business need to reflect. And every country is the same strangely, it's as universal than taxes: you can't escape! Reflecting doesn't do much when your competitor can afford to sell every journey at a loss until you go out of business before then putting their prices up to what you're currently charging. Yes, in some places Uber's arrival did either bring a better service or scare local taxis into doing better (e.g. lots of local firms now offer app-based booking and are just as reliable as Uber), and in some places taxis were so overpriced that Uber could genuinely offer a better service for a lower price and be profitable. But the vast majority of the times they offer cheaper prices, especially when it's such a big difference as in your story, it's a temporary (perhaps for months or years) strategy not something to expect to stay cheap. Enjoy using their services half paid for by investors while you can! Edit: There don't seem to be many recent news articles that go into details, as it was known about so many years ago that most articles talking about these leaks just acknowledge this to be fact (e.g. in this very article we're in comments thread of, "At the same moment as Uber’s service deteriorates and the subsidy that helped it decimate taxis evaporates [... continues on about other stuff]") But here's an interesting snippet from a court case that alleged this against them in the US where the judge basically agreed but said it wasn't to be point of being illegal. From https://casetext.com/case/sc-innovations-inc-v-uber-techs-2 https://casetext.com/case/sc-innovations-inc-v-uber-techs-2 > The Court held that Sidecar's allegation of a relevant market—app-based ride-hailing services, excluding taxis—was sufficiently plausible to survive a motion to dismiss. Id. at 10-11. The Court also rejected suggestions by Uber that Sidecar had not alleged below-cost pricing, id. at 12, as well as arguments that Uber's delayed entry to the non-limousine ride-hailing market and asserted pro-competitive purposes were sufficient for dismissal at the pleading stage, id. at 16-18. The Court nevertheless dismissed Sidecar's Sherman Act claims for failure to provide sufficient allegations of market power, particularly its failure to allege "that Uber has the power to raise market prices above competitive levels simply by reducing its own output, or that Lyft"—allegedly Uber's only remaining competitor—"could not respond to such a reduction by increasing its own output." Id. at 12-14. Absent such allegations, the Court held that Sidecar alleged no more than a "disciplined oligopoly," which the Ninth Circuit has held insufficient to state a claim for either monopolization or attempted monopolization, due to "a gap in the Sherman Act that allows oligopolies to slip past its prohibitions,"

mancerayder 4y ago

France made me pro-Uber. The taxis in Paris are arrogant, entitled and even bullies. I've seen them smoke in the car, refuse to turn down the radio, and other shenanigans. Not to mention they're often not around when you need them. Maybe Big Taxi needed a shakeup worldwide. Although the other day I sat in sick in a Lyft before work, and I ended up getting only 5 dollars credit for the privilege of smelling all day around people.

Semaphor 4y ago
It very much depends. In South Africa? I’ll take an Uber every time, those cabs are scary. In Germany? Even if Uber existed, I’d take a cab.
Ekaros 4y ago
And why should you get to decide what they do in their work place? Isn't that infinite entitlement?
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  I don't get to decide what they do in their work place, but I do get to decide to opt for their competition that provides a more pleasant experience.
- scatters 4y ago
  Their workplace is the public street. Of course we should get to decide how they operate.
croes 4y ago
This shakeup hits the drivers the hardest.
acatton 4y ago
> France made me pro-Uber. The taxis in Paris are arrogant, entitled and even bullies. I've seen them smoke in the car, refuse to turn down the radio, and other shenanigans. Not to mention they're often not around when you need them. I'm… speechless… Can I ask how often and during which time period you took the Taxi in Paris? I've never had or even heard of such experience, I always had the same quality of service of Taxi in Paris as in Germany. (= very good quality) I'll admit that I just take it twice a year when I go visit my aunt. But my brother lived for 7 years in Paris in the 2000s, and I've never heard him complain outside of the price. I'm genuinely surprised by what you're saying (Yes I am a native french speaker), if you didn't have such a good comment history I would have assumed you were an Uber comment farm account.

Nursie 4y ago

My personal experience in Perth, Western Australia - My partner and I need to get home from where she works, we use the uber app, and it quotes us $35. It's a little pricey for a 12 minute journey, but whatever. A driver accepts. We watch as that driver drives in circles, then appears to come towards us, then turns away again. There is no extra stop listed. He keeps doing it, just going round and round, stopping for a while, driving away again. After 15 minutes of this, we cancel to see if we can re-book with a different driver. Suddenly - "Surge pricing!" it's now $45. So we install the local cab app (Thanks Swan Taxis), their app is definitely worse, but we get a quote for $25 and the cab arrives in under 5 minutes. How do you compete with that? Uber business need to reflect. It's the same every time.

samsonradu 4y ago

At 40USD you got 'scammed', even with the meter, as the regular price should not go over 20$. Up until ~2016 the airport taxi business was the wild west, with a lot of shady/unauthorized drivers operating there. Things got much better now, unauthorized cabs can't access the Arrivals area, there are machines to order an authorized cab and authorities clamped down on the use of buggy taxi meters.

susanasj 4y ago

I agree with complaints about the taxi industry in many cities. However this article is about the workers at these companies, not the consumer experience.

pessimizer 4y ago
All of the Uber threads get turned into taxi-bashing (and consequently taxi-defending) threads. It's absolutely an intentional distraction.

BLanen 4y ago

I had 0 issues with taxis in Romania, but I wasn't in Bucharest

jillesvangurp 4y ago

Especially in countries where you might reasonably expect to be ripped off by the likes of taxi drivers, Uber is great because it just eliminates all haggling over fees, tips, etc. You know what you pay ahead of time and there's a big incentive for the driver to honor the deal and get their tip plus five star rating. There are similar applications for different markets of course. But Uber has the international brand recognition. Worth investigating what app works best before you go somewhere.

capableweb 4y ago
So you're saying that you're OK with the trade-off that instead of a taxi driver possibly charging you higher for a trip, you're willing to let Uber exploit their own employees? Since the story here is not about if Uber is better/worse for passengers but if Uber is a good/bad employer, it sounds like that's what you're saying.
- Majestic121 4y ago
  Yes, absolutely, I'll take a company that exploit their employees over an overregulated industry keeping competition out while encouraging shady business practices like haggling and scamming tourists and locals alike, any time of the day. If the choice to have good service + no exploitation arise, I'll take that one, and it's coming thanks to Uber bursting the taxi monopoly, but in the meanwhile no regrets, taxis had it coming.
  - jillesvangurp 4y ago
    Exactly, I've been scammed a few times too often for me to shed any crocodile tears for old school taxi drivers. Most Uber drivers I've dealt with seem happy enough with the steady flow of rides and tips. Eager even. I don't think that Uber is actually that un-popular with drivers.
- savant_penguin 4y ago
  An Uber driver in his way to being exploited: Wake up, decide it's a good day to be exploited. Kiss your wife goodbye as you enter your car "bye honey! On my way to being exploited by Uber!" Drive away and open your exploitation app. Accept a ride, go to the person: "who's the person that's going to participate in my exploitation together with Uber today? Oh, there he is!". Drive him to the place he needs to be, drive away. "Ok, do I want to be exploited some more today?" Decide to be exploited on a few more rides and return home. Now being serious, if you're an Uber driver and let's say that in the short term that's your best option, why would it be better for him to have this option striped from him? Why do you think anyone else should make that call except him?

andrepd 4y ago

I don't understand this comment. The article is about attacks on worker's rights. Your comment is a personal anecdote about how taxis sucked in a trip you had. What is the relation between the two, and how is this not flagrant off-topic?

medo-bear 4y ago

here is my opinion. taxis have been a shady business (esp in eastern europe) for way too long. something like uber was simply bound to come and shake things up. uber offered a customer friendly service and employed people that needed to earn some extra cash. but here is the problem: they were too good. they killed the taxi industry, whose workers didnt drive taxis for extra cash but to provide for their familys. so now you have taxi drivers without work. who do they turn to for employment? they turn to uber/bolt or whoever killed their previous employer. so now uber doesnt employ people who just need to earn extra cash but drivers who use this occupation as sole means to provide for their family. and you know what? uber sucks as that type of employer

usr1106 4y ago

So because you have bad experience with taxis you feel entitled to exploit unprivileged workers instead? I don't doubt that taxis can be problematic in many places. Typically they reflect the social conditions of where they operate. Inequality, poor education, corruption in general mean that taxis in such location are not a good experience. And then highly paid people like many HN readers are just not willing to do the math: A taxi driver (or Uber driver) will not be able to drive all working day long. They have to wait for new passengers a significant part of their working time. So expect that when you use them you need to pay at least twice the rate for a normal employee. Deprecation and maintenace for a car is not cheap. And again the customer also needs to pay it for the time the vehicle is not moving, not just for the time they are travelling. The latter is even worse for Uber. Private cars don't have several drivers. Traditional taxis have (at least in this country), just to compensate for big part of fixed costs. Of course Uber externalizes those costs to their drivers.

rayiner 4y ago
> So because you have bad experience with taxis you feel entitled to exploit unprivileged workers instead? These are the same Dick Cheney acolytes saying “we need illegal immigration or else strawberries will cost too much.”
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  American strawberry farms would not exist without illegal immigration, that’s just a fact. No one would buy domestic strawberries picked by someone making an American wage when the imported strawberries cost half as much.
  - usr1106 4y ago
    So the American government / society works according the same principles as Uber does. Let's take the earnings ourselves by exploiting others in weak positions. They can stand for the costs and the risks.
  - usr1106 4y ago

decebalus1 4y ago

Ugh.. My personal experience. I come back from a trip in Romania. Arrive at Seatac, open the Uber app, it costs $100 for a trip to my house. Wait for my luggage to arrive, I open the app again, it's $120. I go outside the terminal and I find a town car service which was $60 for the same trip. Rewind 1 day, In Bucharest, I arrive at the hotel via taxi and tell the driver that I need to go to the airport at 4 in the morning. He's like 'great, I just started my shift. Here's my phone number, call me when you wake up, I'll be at the hotel within 15 minutes'. And he was.

jopsen 4y ago

I would say that pricing has a lot to do with the feasibility of taking a taxi.. having just visited India here is my comparison of cost for 1 hour to the airport: Denmark, using taxi 230 USD, need to call hours in advance. San Francisco, using Uber 40-50 USD. India, using Uber 10-20 USD. In Denmark taxis are so expensive there is few of them, so not only is the crazy expensive, it's very hard to find one when you need it. Uber did grow the market.

bengale 4y ago

The local taxis in my town don't seem to every want to take fares. They seem to be eternally waiting for a better offer and grumpy if you try to take what they consider to be a small trip. Never had that issue with Uber drivers.

badkarma1963 4y ago

Bucharest airport is a shitshow