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Bitpanda said no mass layoffs, three weeks before axing one-third of staff
- mathverse 4y agoEhm they were not really careful with spending money. They had their own barista, cool startup offices and overpaid a lot for people with meh experience. They did not really have anyone good to manage their finances.
- daniel-cussen 4y agoSo always get the direct email of all your coworkers so you can reach them independently of your boss. Firing has a desired second-effect as destruction of evidence.
- szundi 4y agoThis is normal, management just got the news that there is no more money.
- dang 4y agoRelated: Crypto firm Bitpanda lays off around 20% of its people - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31867839 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31867839 - June 2022 (117 comments)
- killingtime74 4y agoIf your company so as mentions layoffs, even (especially?) if they deny it, they are coming. Just like a Pip, if it gets mentioned, start looking for another job
- randrews 4y agoAs much as I want to agree with you, and as much as I usually go by that rule myself... The place I work at now said, in March 2020, that they weren't going to do any layoffs. And, they haven't. And are now making more money than they were in 2019, and actively looking for more people, so, I doubt any are coming. There have been times in my life when that advice was 100% true, but, not every time.
- DonHopkins 4y agoWhen the senior management all suddenly disappear at once, because they're under gag order and not allowed to talk about the company's future with anyone, that's a sign of things to come.
- softwaredoug 4y agoCounterpoint: depending on the company stay around if you’re somewhat risk tolerant. It might not be in a death spiral and you’ll learn a lot of the company needs to hard pivot in new directions. You’ll have a bigger say in the smaller company trying to find that direction.
- chrononaut 4y agoThat doesn't make much sense to me. If there is market turmoil, are you saying the best strategy for a company is to not communicate anything no matter the company and industry?
- lumost 4y agoThe best strategy is to talk through the business performance, and the business goals. When businesses miss goals, or they clam up on the underlying fundamentals - it generally means that trouble is brewing. Sometimes this is done on "tenuous" justifications, I once worked at a startup that insisted that employees could not have access to revenue data or other business metrics if they were to go public. Of course, the reality was that the business wanted to hide how deeply underwater everyones options were - as well as how far off the growth projections were from business reality.
- marcosdumay 4y agoOn the context of this one article, what do you expect a company can communicate about layoffs?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- gnicholas 4y agoWhat if the company doesn't bring it up, but says there won't be a layoff in response to a direct question (at an employee town hall, for example)? It seems like that's how a lot of these rumors get started.
- killingtime74 4y agoIf I was in charge I would deflect and talk about how strong fundamentals were etc
- randrews 4y agoSo you're saying, in the scenario where someone asks directly "will this company lay anyone off," you'd rather the company deflect the question and not answer it than just say "no?" I really can't imagine why anyone would think that's a better look. If someone dodges a question, it's safe to assume that the truthful answer would look bad for them. That's WHY people dodge questions.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bink 4y agoI don't think one signal alone is sufficient to make that determination. Lots of companies try to comfort employees during downturns. In my experience before you see mass layoffs you'll also see some of the following: hiring freezes, benefit cutbacks, travel bans, infrastructure cost cutting, office closures, revamps to employee evaluation processes, etc. Without at least some other factors I wouldn't assume a company is considering layoffs just because they use the word.
- jcadam 4y agoYep, if you were around in 2008, you recognize it starting again....
- imglorp 4y agoBailing early sacrifices some benefits in exchange for you deciding the timing. If you are laid off in much of the US anyway, you are eligible for unemployment in case that's needed. That might help someone with less assets in a protracted dry spell. Also very common, you give up severance pay if you quit. If you can afford some timing risk, IMO it's best to have your scope up and be looking just in case, then wait until pushed. The severance will basically be a bonus if you're rehired quickly since you should have some leads lined up.
- hotpotamus 4y agoYep, rode out a layoff with that plan in mind recently. Took a very long vacation and still had a month or two of double pay - April was the first 5 paycheck month of my life, so that was cool. But on the whole it's pretty stressful waiting to get laid off, can't say I'd recommend it, though in my case it worked out pretty well.
- randrews 4y agoFor anyone like me wondering how many 1/3 is, they apparently reduced their workforce to 730 people, meaning they laid off 365 (or thereabouts). That feels to me like a pretty big layoff, not just a headline trying to make a number sound big.
- hourago 4y ago> Bitpanda’s chief product officer, Lukas Enzersdorfer-Konrad, told employees via a Slack message there would be no mass layoffs, weeks before the company cut its workforce by a third. If they knew of the layoffs and lied Bitpanda must be punished for it. Many employees may have made decisions based on that lie.
- sergers 4y agonot sure about specific labor laws in your area, but even if they knew for a fact there would be layoffs, and told employees otherwise, i dont think thats punishable (may be wrong/unethical, but legally i dont think they did anything wrong). being at a company for 16 years, i have learned: 1)everything is status quo, until one day it isnt. 2)there will be no changes, till there is change one day. 3)there will be no layoffs, until one day there is... alot of times the people working above you directly dont know/are aware of pending doom. it is possible at the time the CPO made that statement, it could have been true at the time or that they were aware of that there would be no layoffs.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- skeeter2020 4y agoThey've already covered this, lie or not by stating AT THE TIME the statement was made it was believed to be true, with a lay-off decision only made a few days before it was executed.
- zorpner 4y agoIndividuals authorized to speak for companies who state these lies need to personally liable. If someone at the company lied to them to get them to say it, they should be able go after them, like a chain of stolen goods. Permitting spokespeople to lie is not only toxic, but explicitly removes the equality of information necessary to a functioning free market. It's in everyone's interest to punish it.
- treis 4y agoA lot happened in those three weeks. Bitcoin dropped by a third and at least a few coins collapsed.
- gnicholas 4y agoWhat are the appropriate or possible responses to being publicly asked if you're going to do a layoff, in the case that: (1) you are definitely going to do a layoff (2) you have not yet decided but are considering it (3) you are definitely not doing a layoff In the past, HNers have mentioned that if you admit you're going to lay people off, then your best performers will leave. Is that true? If so, what should companies say in order to be truthful and to help keep the company from falling apart? Relatedly, how does a company credibly promise not to do layoffs, to put people's minds at ease?
- capableweb 4y agoIf you know you're gonna do layoffs, say that it's being considered, and then do the layoffs. If it's possible you'll do layoffs, says it's possible that you'll do layoffs, figure out what you wanna do, then do that. If you know you're not gonna do layoffs, say you know you're not gonna do layoffs, and then don't do layoffs. If people will leave because you say there will be layoffs, they would leave even faster if you didn't say you'll do layoffs but then do it anyway.
- bb88 4y agoIt's one thing to say, you're struggling, but you think you can make it without layoffs. Or another thing to say your financial models say for the next 90 days you're okay at the moment. Or you're trying to shift money around, or trying to increase revenue, or to say you're looking for funding... If people invest their lives in your company (relocating, working overtime, etc), they deserve the honest truth about what's happening. Particularly in a world where there's a high demand for tech workers.
- erichocean 4y ago> If people invest their lives in your company I think I may see the problem.
- danaris 4y ago
- julienfr112 4y ago'promises only bind those who believe in them'. Jacques Chirac
- faangiq 4y ago
- skeeter2020 4y agoThat photo of the founders(?) displays maximum turtle neck. Is that because of some Jobsian influence or is it an esoteric coffee house theme? Either way, it would have got my spidey-sense tingling.
- DonHopkins 4y agoMaybe they just like to feel like they're being strangled by a really weak guy, all day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odXw8_DJkaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odXw8_DJkaA
- colesantiago 4y agoit's becoming extremely c r i n g e.
- miked85 4y agoAgreed. Just looking at that picture on their site if I was considering a job would end it for me.
- laserlight 4y agoStatements without any binding commitment mean nothing. Everyone should understand that.
- jcadam 4y agoManagers will tell you not to worry about job security, right up until the day you get a meeting invite from HR.
- 999900000999 4y agoEvery single company is guaranteed to try and assure employees the company's doing okay. Think about it for a second, regardless of if your employer intends to do layoffs or not, the moment people fear for their jobs, they'll spend more time looking for work. I prefer the quick rip the Band-Aid off lay off, give me a bit of severance, let me shake the hands of upper management and we can all move on for our lives
- capableweb 4y agoIt's cool that you can just survive on getting fired, with zero repercussions in other parts of your life and all that. But that's not the situation for many others, who have to plan a good chunk of their (at least immediate) future based around other people in their life outside of work. So if a company says "Just so everyone know, the entire market is experience a tough time, and so are we, so right now we're evaluating our options, don't do anything drastic", people can plan around that. But if the company says "Don't worry about what's happening around you, we're super fine and would never do layoffs", people start to plan around that. It's a bit silly, and people probably shouldn't trust management/the company to have their best interest at heart, but as humans we do trust others (probably more than we should).
- dymk 4y agoOP said he prefers the quick band aid method, not that he doesn’t care.
- 999900000999 4y agoYou can't trust what the company says regardless. A sudden layoff can happen to anyone.
- jackmott 4y ago
- cyanydeez 4y agoSame with failing crypto coins. As soon as they tell you it'll be ok is the moment they're fire saleing
- possiblelion 4y agoSad, Bitpanda is one of the best in Europe.
- duxup 4y agoI have worked at a place where the HR manager sent out an email “Why it’s a great time to be working at X Part 1”. We laid off 20% of the staff and a few days later came “Why it’s a great time to be working at X Part 2”.
- gralx 4y agoThe darkest Sesame Street skit I ever saw had a muppet jumping up and down on a manhole cover, gleefully repeating "99! 99! 99! ...". A second muppet shows up wondering what it's all about, and the first muppet concedes his spot. The second jumps up once, saying "Ninety---", the manhole cover slips out of place, and the muppet falls to its doom. The first resumes his jumping: "100! 100! 100!"
- cwilkes 4y agoPart2: the empire strikes back?
- eschneider 4y agoFrom a purely practical perspective, it's rarely useful to ask about layoffs. You're unlikely to get an honest answer, and even if you were, how much trust can you put in it? All you do is signal that you're someone who "lacks commitment." You just have to keep your eyes open all the time, make a judgement about how much sense things make, and make your own decisions on when things seem off.
- Barrera 4y agoThose turtlenecks. Anyway, the article mentions: > He [chief product officer] said the company was "very well funded" with no liquidity problems. While he noted that its 2022 financial results were "below budget," he said that this had been caused by macroeconomic conditions, including a supply crisis and the Ukraine conflict. The executive urged employees to focus on product and tech infrastructure improvements in preparation for the "next bull run." This is exactly the same line given by every single business. Even the White House does it. This is due to Ukraine, supply shock, and macroeconomic factors. As if this didn't matter. As if that meant that whatever is happening can be ignored. Don't worry, nothing to see here. It's just special, highly unusual circumstances. Except it does matter. No matter how well you wear the turtleneck eventually reality matters. Mean-reversions from bubbles matter. They are inevitable and they are painful. It's never "contained," no matter how much leadership wants you to believe it. Gear up.
- rvz 4y agoReminds me of the Theranos CEO, Elizabeth Holmes using the same old trick. Startups that have CEOs with this infatuation with the Steve Jobs turtle neck and jeans look are essentially playing the scammer and are taking part in the delusion or attempting to hypnotise VCs by cargo-culting and re-creating his dark reality distortion spells.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- DonHopkins 4y agoThe core business model of cryptocurrency companies is deceiving their customers, so why shouldn't they also deceive their employees too?
- Weatherweathe 4y agoCompletely unrelated to this new, but I remember interviewing with them 3 years ago and had my worst interview ever. There was 2 interviewers, one lady from HR and one guy from engineering (with a hard to understand english). For some reason they thought it was a good idea to ask about concurrency on PHP and right after what were my weakness. Looking back I think I was very lucky to not make it throught.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Cypher 4y agoThey do that to spread the rumor
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoYou say there's gonna be a layoff, then you don't get to choose who leaves. They start to choose for themselves. You lose control.
- purplepatrick 4y agoWhen all three founders wear turtlenecks on PR photos, you know there’s something amiss…