10 ms·

Google open sources solar atmospheric water generator

486 points by johmathe 5y ago

databasher 5y ago
It turns out they are very similar to binary loadlifters in most respects.
- Maursault 5y ago
  You're thinking of vaporators. Binary loadlifters are heavy-lifting droids, though the binary programming language of those droids was quite similar to that of moisture vaporators. Maybe that's what you meant.
bushbaba 5y ago
Fixed the title for you: Google "deprecates" solar atmospheric water generator.
- colesantiago 5y ago
  accurate.
buescher 5y ago
Too bad Google X couldn't invent indoor plumbing instead.
babelfish 5y ago
What happens at X when a project like this is discontinued? Do the employees get shuffled around, let go...?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kajecounterhack 5y ago
  I've heard some of the members of the project will get a payout for deciding to end the project (kind of an incentive to not keep failing projects going), and employees get a length of time to find a new home within Google / X. Though it's the same as any transfer process: you have to apply for available roles within the company, do fit chats, maybe do interviews, etc.
RenThraysk 5y ago
Fundamentally flawed idea. Places that need water are the most are dry, they have no humidity, as there is little to no water in the air.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  What about places with plenty of water, but where the water's all polluted?
  - RenThraysk 5y ago
    Then you don't need to extract water from the air. Just make it potable.
    - whatshisface 5y ago
      Depending on the type of pollution, making it potable could be just as hard as distilling it.
      - RenThraysk 5y ago
        Distilling still easier and more efficient than condensing water out of the air.
      - moffkalast 5y ago
        Then you just put it into a pot, hook up another pot with a tube, then set a fire under the first one. Basic distillation isn't rocket science.
        whatshisface 5y ago
        Energy costs are the major limiter to desalination and the availability of water more broadly. One or two people can do that but if an entire civilization does it they'll clearcut their forests and make the air unbreatheable. Cooking fires are a major source of air pollution in many Indian cities.
gianpaj 5y ago
https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/main/Overview_deck.pdf https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/m...
blacksqr 5y ago
Estimated $150 price point. Requires an electric motor to circulate air. What is the intersection of people who a) can afford an expenditure of $150, b) have reliable access to electricity and can pay for it, and c) can't get their hands on five liters of clean water a day?
- amelius 5y ago
  You can use solar energy.
  - blacksqr 5y ago
    Perhaps so, but not in the design being discussed here.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bun_at_work 5y ago
  Many people don't have good access to clean water, over 2B according to the repo's readme. Those people probably cannot afford $150, but the goal of the project wasn't $150, it was lower. The unit is supposed to be solar powered, so access to electricity isn't strictly necessary, in the sense of being able to connect to the grid. They just need sunlight. There is a sweet spot of cost, where those who need it can't afford it, but nonprofits, billionaire philanthropists, and local governments can afford to purchase and distribute such devices where necessary. In cases where the need for clean water greatly outweighs the supply, such entities see a good return on investment, simply by improving the health of those people there. Furthermore, X is a moonshot program at Google. They attempt solutions for big problems with high likeihood of failure. Are you suggesting they shouldn't do this with their money printing ad machine? It seems like any good that comes out of that company should be celebrated, and in this case they are sharing a bunch of work on solving what will be an increasing large problem for the entire world.
  - blacksqr 5y ago
    Did you look at the presentation deck in the linked repository? It clearly says "$150 target price point" It also clearly shows an electric circulating fan in the diagrams.
aaron695 5y ago
oneplane 5y ago
"Atmospheric water generators" (or: dehumidifiers) aren't new, the problem is that other means of obtaining water are almost always the better option (this includes access to funds, knowledge or materials). The places where this device would be helpful would only be helped if a bunch of them materialised out of thin air and would work with no maintenance or repairs, forever.
fian 5y ago
A similar idea from 15 years ago using a wind turbine instead of solar: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1071 http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsN...
ineedasername 5y ago
Son: "Dad, I'm thirsty, when can I have another sip of water?" Father: "Have patience my son, there's only 4 more ads until the next ounce will be generated, and we can usually skip one of them after a few seconds" I know, it's a cheap shot since X could have just mothballed the research and wrapped it up in patents.
holografix 5y ago
Not to disparage the open sourcing of this tech, it clearly contributes some knowledge to humaninity. But… Has Google Moonshot produced _anything_ that’s commercially a big success? Seems to me that giving Astro Teller and a bunch of smart people blank cheques helps them have tones of fun without the pressure of actually succeeding?
mrexample 5y ago
Thundefoot debunked similar products. I bet this finds no traction in real world. Only Americans buy into this kind shit and Elon Musks stupid ideas
- traverseda 5y ago
  A lot of people bringing up the thunderfoot video without realizing that this is... a completely different device. This is not solar-electric for one, it's direct solar heat. There's no peltier elements or anything like that, it uses ground temperature to provide the cold side of the dehumidifier. It does have a small electric motor and circulating fan, but that does not require very much power at all. It's a largely passive device and not really comparable to the solar electric designs. I wish people would use their own brain instead of just parroting whatever thunderfoot says. Maybe the problem is that people aren't finding the actual overview PDF? https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/main/Overview_deck.pdf https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/m...
curiousfab 5y ago
The concept has been debunked over and over, e.g. by Thunderf00t. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVsqIjAeeXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVsqIjAeeXw
- daenz 5y ago
  Isn't the video you linked to a completely different concept? How does the debunking in that one apply to this one?
  - outworlder 5y ago
    It is a very different concept, yes. Considerations of efficiency and power consumption are relevant... but not much else. Generally such devices are either too expensive, too maintenance heavy, or utterly inefficient. I'm not qualified to comment on, but I have found it interesting that it heats up the air (hotter air = can hold more moisture), passes the air through some material that's supposed to retain moisture, then cools it down with radiators. It seems that it would be more efficient in cold weather but would not perform nearly as well in a desert (where you need it to perform well as the moisture content is low during the day). So maybe Mr. Thunderfoot will be able to debunk this too. If he can refrain from reusing Theranos and Boring Co footage.
- Loughla 5y ago
  A problem with his debunking at a fundamental level - when calculating how often the air temperature is lower than the ground temperature, he uses Canada and Wisconsin. I'm not sure those are representative of Africa?
  - imglorp 5y ago
    I think the key message of all the debunkings is this: "it depends". The device may work great in one condition but certainly not always like the vendors might tout. Given the triple point chart for water, the solar power for that day, and your humidity and temperature, you can compute the max you'll condense from the atmosphere.
throw8383833jj 5y ago
i've looked into air to water machines before and one downside i've noticed is that the energy use is really really high. one device I looked at was like 1 KW per 1.5 gallons or so! definately not something to water your lawn. At that energy usage, I'd say these are more useful for survival situations where you're only producing enough water for people to drink and survive. Other than that, I'm very excited about the propsects of air to water machines, I really really hope they become a lot more energy efficient.
- ben_w 5y ago
  Given this is supposed to make 5 litres per day and is targeted at people who do not have access to safe drinking water, 1 kwh (I assume you mean kwh not kw) for 5.7 or 6.8 litres (imperial and US gallons are different) seems acceptable.
deleted 5y ago
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justbrandon2u 5y ago
Just dig a well. Or grab some ocean water and filter it. Then build a big pipe. Problem could be solved worldwide in less than 10 years. But then what?
- daenz 5y ago
  >ocean water Requires desalination, which is more complicated than simply filtering.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    That depends on what you consider "filtering". You can desalinate using reverse osmosis, which pretty much is filtering.
    - bduerst 5y ago
      RO filters are not price accessible the vast majority of people who do not currently have access to potable water. Same with desalination.
  - kempbellt 5y ago
    Desalinization does not have to be complicated. You can build a simple desalinator (aka, a solar still) with a couple bins, some glass/plexiglass, and access to sunlight. Preferably in an enclosed system to better contain heat and prevent water vapor from escaping. No filters to replace, and it will run for as long as you feed it water. Best link I could find to explain the process: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/61215 https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/61215
    - yazaddaruvala 5y ago
      Where do you put the left over salt? At those levels it’s both toxic for animals and toxic for plants. Even putting it back into the ocean isn’t simple. If you do it in one big batch, you would kill everything in that location for a while. If you do it slowly, that isn’t simple.
dogleash 5y ago
If they’re giving it away for free, that must mean there is a fatal flaw they could never design around and are confident nobody else will either. What’s the point then? At least tell us why it’s a dead end.
- toothpicked 5y ago
  They don't opensource modern Google Search and it is also flawed...
- ben_w 5y ago
  Or that they just don’t see how it’s a market fit for their business.
  - fallat 5y ago
    This. They did excellent internal work, decided it's not for them, but did something good and want to share it. Just because it's not profitable for them doesn't mean it was a waste - they can use their new knowledge in other areas.
  - dogleash 5y ago
    Que? Isn't "don’t see how it’s a market fit" just startup speak for "it's not economically viable"? That would fall squarely into the category of design failures I was talking about. It's not like we don't know any mechanism to cause condensation from air.
    - marcosdumay 5y ago
      It's not economically viable with their usual profit margin, on a market large enough to pay for their fixed costs, with the suppliers and labor they have around, and a lot of other constraints. That doesn't mean it's useless for everybody. So they publishing it may improve somebody's life.
    - rat9988 5y ago
      Lowering cost by manufacturing at scale is knowledge they don't have, and they do need to make it financially viable. Other people might have it and make it viable.
colesantiago 5y ago
I really wish it wasn't Google, the spyware company that open sourced this. But rather a different company without all the bad and toxic disgusting ethics that Google has.
- jwineinger 5y ago
  The phrase "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" comes to mind. Just because some of the practices of this large company are bad, it doesn't mean everything to come from it is. Keep the good stuff, ditch the rest.
  - colesantiago 5y ago
    Again. I prefer a different company to work on this problem. Google just makes this act highly suspect and non altruistic. It is like Facebook and Internet.org, we keep allowing these tech companies to continue to build these trojan horses.
- Jabbles 5y ago
  So you're saying you wish Google concentrated on evil and didn't have any redeeming qualities at all?
  - colesantiago 5y ago
    No redeeming qualities. This is only a gesture of distraction. All Google has concentrated on is evil. Hell, this project could be the aftermath of a Google PM gutting a team.
    - johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago
      I whole-heartedly agree. Google is using this projects as a cover so that they can keep invading our privacy and keep uesrs hostages for money.
sitkack 5y ago
> Our assessment—using Google Earth Engine13—introduces a hypothetical 1-metre-square device with a SY profle of 0.2 to 2.5 litres per kilowatthour (0.1 to 1.25 litres per kilowatt-hour for a 2-metre-square device) at 30% to 90% RH, respectively. The upper bound is nice, the lower bound kinda hurts. I can't tell if they are tracking the night cycle and harvesting when the dewpoint drops. Is this all calculation or is there a blueprint I am missing.
deleted 5y ago
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cwkoss 5y ago
I want to make an orchard on a hill in the maritime pacific northwest. Its a somewhat odd climate where the time that gets hottest is when it also tends to be dryest (east coast tends to be wetter when hotter). I wonder if something like this (possibly with less focus on "clean" water - it's rural and breezy, so I don' think raw output would harm trees...) could be suitable for generating summer water for tree irrigation. I wish the overview PDF had more labels...
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  If it's extracting water from the air, "hot and dry" does not seem to be a good situation. You'd want humid air. Any water condensed from the air is going to be "pure" by most measures. It's essentially distilled water.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    The purity of the water you get from the air is limited by how much dust is on the air you work with. You can improve it easily by filtering. It's much easier than filtering the final water. But it's not necessarily pure.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    Fair point, I thought part of the energy was being used for purification before I read the overview pdf. The site is ~ 1/4 mile from the ocean, so I think the air won't be totally dry... but just won't get a lot of rainfall. Mostly wondering if there's a good way to 'moisture farm' to keep the soil around trees moist. Ideally with no more power than a small solar panel located right next to the device, so I don't have to run power there (there's well and power at the bottom of the hill... but moisture farming would be cooler than running irrigation :-P).
  - outworlder 5y ago
    > Any water condensed from the air is going to be "pure" by most measures. It's essentially distilled water. And you can freely give it for spherical cows to drink in vacuum. Keeping any such device free from contamination is very difficult. Bacteria love the moist environments. Leave it unattended and you have moist dust. Lovely.
Iolaum 5y ago
Is it me or does this project have Dune vibes? Pity that it couldn't move forward.
- x3n0ph3n3 5y ago
  That's because it's a fundamentally dumb idea and the promises made by proponents violate the laws of thermodynamics.
fareesh 5y ago
Does anyone know of a YouTube video of a similar device? Or perhaps the same one
- artificial 5y ago
  Would this fit the bill? I thought these were super cool for offgrid: http://www.skywell.com/ http://www.skywell.com/
Ansil849 5y ago
So what is the practical use of this? Let's say that I'm not an engineer or a researcher or a coder, but would like to set some of these units up to collect water. How do I do so? Do I approach someone to build this for me (who?)? How much can I expect it to cost? In other words, how can I actualize this vision: > So the H2E team asked: “What if you could put the power to generate daily drinking water into the hands of individuals, no matter where they live, by creating an affordable, easy to use device that harvests water from the air and is powered by the sun?"
- adrianwaj 5y ago
  Are there any sites that help build groups around current and upcoming open-source projects, and also encourage people to make stuff open-source - perhaps with pledges? ... a more business-focused GitHub. ... an OpenSea for inventors. Imagine if money spent on NFTs would go to cool projects instead of avatars!
  - kickout 5y ago
    Also imagine if money spent on stock buybacks went somewhere productive. :/
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      If a company can't think of anything useful and cost-effective to spend their money on, giving that money back in the way that passes through the largest portion of it is the most productive thing they could do. Let the investors allocate their money efficiently, rather than buying a gold mine as a movie theatre company (as an example).
      - ineedasername 5y ago
        rather than buying a gold mine as a movie theatre That's a pretty random example. Crypto? Maybe. But it's not like AMC is going to randomly get into the actual physical mining busin-- (hold on, it's 2022, lmgt just in case) Yes, a perfectly good example.
mrfusion 5y ago
Is there a simple expansion of how it works?
Ansil849 5y ago
Are there any consumer-grade atmospheric solar water generators on the market right now? I did a very quick search and didn't find anything. Is there anything like this that people can buy right now?
- tppiotrowski 5y ago
  Quick Google found this: https://www.source.co/ https://www.source.co/ Edit: There's also this water bottle I remember seeing a while back on Kickstarter or Indigogo. It doesn't seem like they actually sell it on the website: https://fontus.at/ https://fontus.at/
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    Super interesting, thanks. Kind of surprised more people aren't talking about this.
  - pjy04 5y ago
    Yes, this is the company in Arizona. They can do about 4-5 liters a day without an external power source.
  - hanniabu 5y ago
    It says clean, but isn't it only as clean as the surrounding air? For example if you used this next to a manufacturing plant spewing chemicals into the air, won't these contaminants be captured by the condensation and make it into the water?
- igorhvr 5y ago
  If you don't mind having to add the solar kit for power (separate purchase) https://www.accairwater.com/home-atmospheric-drinking-water-generator_p27.html https://www.accairwater.com/home-atmospheric-drinking-water-... and similar products could be used..
- colechristensen 5y ago
  You could buy a few solar panels, an inverter, a dehumidifier, and a water filter and be fine. The problem is sizing the power generation and dehumidifier to match and generate an amount of water meaningful to you. Regardless you need quite a bit of solar to get a decent amount of water.
anonporridge 5y ago
So, a solar powered dehumidifier? At first pass, I would guess that something like this would primarily be useful in places with naturally high humidity, which aren't likely to have a shortage of water in the first place, no? Maybe the argument is that the natural sources of water are dirty, and extracting from the air is automatically clean and safe to drink, but it still seems like it may be more resource efficient to invest in water treatment, not a fleet of dehumidifiers.
- sbradford26 5y ago
  It might have some use in coastal areas where salt water can contaminate wells sometimes. But you are right it might just be worth pursuing something like desalination powered by solar power in those situations.
- outworlder 5y ago
  > and extracting from the air is automatically clean and safe to drink It isn't, though. Bacteria accumulate. Dehumidifiers are generally very nasty. Although bacteria can then be killed (not sure about their toxins), while other contaminants may not be very easy to get rid of. Almost every place on Earth has humidity above 0%. Which makes it possible to extract water, even if it's very inefficient. People have condensed water successfully in deserts.
  - kragen 5y ago
    Bacteriostatic materials aren't rocket science. One of the best dehumidifier materials, copper, is also one of the best bacteriostats. It's just expensive.
deleted 5y ago
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lsb 5y ago
One of the pioneers in the field is still going strong: http://yaghi.berkeley.edu/ http://yaghi.berkeley.edu/
opless 5y ago
An open source dehumidifier ? Haven’t there been umpteen attempts at this? I thought there’s not that much water in the air. The volume of air to move must be crazy. Maybe I should read TFA
- tjpnz 5y ago
  A cursory glance of TFA suggests that it probably is another dehumidifier. Depending on the environment it might yield a small amount of water, but certainly not the kind you would want to be drinking without treatment. I look forward to thunderf00t's video on it.
- hobs 5y ago
  As far as I know every "water from air" is literally a dehumidifier and is going to produce dirty water at 1000x the cost of just driving water anywhere on earth.
  - opless 5y ago
    This guy has done several busting videos on similar devices https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGTRX6pZSns https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGTRX6pZSns
  - jupp0r 5y ago
    What makes you think the water that’s in the air you are currently breathing is “dirty”?
    - hobs 5y ago
      All air we breathe has bacteria and molds and dehumidifiers are a perfect place for Bad Things to grow. https://hvacguides101.com/is-dehumidifier-water-safe-to-drink/ https://hvacguides101.com/is-dehumidifier-water-safe-to-drin...
cypherpunks01 5y ago
Can the desiccant work in perpetuity? Or is it more of a "wear part" that needs replacement? I don't understand enough of the desiccant types mentioned in the Nature paper to know.
eointierney 5y ago
So imagine if you could convince the open source community of the planet to optimise clean water consumption based on a cool prototype and then you mass produce hyper-efficient instances linked to a google account. Saving the planet one artificial intelligence at a time.
jodrellblank 5y ago
Check out Thunderf00t's videos cricising solar water collectors, e.g.: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc7WqVMCABg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc7WqVMCABg - Zero Mass Water: BUSTED! "Honestly, it drives me crazy how many people have reinvented the dehumidifier, put a solar panel on it, and the media has danced around like theyve just saved the world!" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPvXnmBIO7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPvXnmBIO7o - Self-filling water bottle: BUSTED! "The fact that its thermodynamically impossible seem to stop 'science communicators' from promoting this. The fact that its a really dumb, and not particularly inventive idea didnt stop the 'science communicators' from promoting this. Kinda depressing really." Problems include: - it's much cheaper to bring in a tanker of water from somewhere else, than for the electricity to do this. - It's a dehumidifier; in places where the air is wet, it rains, and you don't need it. In places where you need it, you need it because there's not much water, so it doesn't work well. - It's going to be prone to growing bacteria; warm and moist. - It needs a vast volume of air; when water becomes steam it expands 1000x. Which means to go the other way you need at least 1000 litres of steam dragged through for a litre of water. Air can be around 4% water says Britannica.com, so 20,000 litres of humid air for a litre of water if it's perfectly efficient. Thunderf00t's estimate is 50,000 litres of air for 1 litre of water; And the air needs to be cooled. That needs big fans and lots of power (air is heavy to move).
- noogle 5y ago
  > in places where the air is wet, it rains, and you don't need it. - Rain water collected in ponds/rivers may be contaminated/infested. - Lack of fresh water in the ocean/islands is also an issue. The two things that are available almost everywhere are air and sun.
  - kragen 5y ago
    Rainwater cisterns are a viable option if you have rain.
    - RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
      And if you dont?
INTPenis 5y ago
Open sources is another word for "abandons". Israel has made a massive desalination plant, to turn salt water into potable water and it's no easy task. If they could have taken water from the atmosphere I'm sure they would have tried. It's a pipe dream so far.
- skybrian 5y ago
  In this sense, isn't most research abandoned after the paper is written? But there are better and worse ways to do it.
- canadaduane 5y ago
  > Open sources is another word for "abandons". They are not equivalent. Yes, it's disappointing; however, open sourcing it makes it easier for someone else to continue the relay race, rather than needlessly experience Groundhog Day.
- croon 5y ago
  The absolute worst case for open sourcing ("abandoning") a project is showing everyone else what you did and what results you reached or didn't, meaning everyone can avoid doing the same thing again, which is still a positive. All other scenarios are even better.
- macleginn 5y ago
  They have tried, actually, and are trying still: https://www.technion.ac.il/en/2021/07/water-from-air-europe-innovation-award/ https://www.technion.ac.il/en/2021/07/water-from-air-europe-...
celdon25 5y ago
Dean Kamen claimed on the Colbert Report in 2008 to have invented a machine that can produce 1000 liters per day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg1Hu0PMG0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg1Hu0PMG0
- discordance 5y ago
  The Slingshot. Purifies via vapor distillation. Last I heard Dean Kamen made an agreement with Coke where they would help Coke build a water soda fountain in return for Cokes distribution network. Not sure what has happened since. Hope it still works out, but I feel another sad Segway story coming up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot_(water_vapor_distillation_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot_(water_vapor_distill...
posharma 5y ago
From the README, "This is no longer an active project at X" ==> (implies) ==> We don't care about it any more, so we're dumping it here. Do what you want :-)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rootsudo 5y ago
We should have a saying, beware corporations bearing gifts?
gundmc 5y ago
X has been really good about open sourcing all of the technical information from shut down projects. They did the same for the Makani power-generating kites. Love to see stuff like this
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  Citation needed. I worked there for two years and there are a LOT of projects that are sitting collecting dust that in my opinion could really help people if they were released as open source. The one I am thinking of (not my place to disclose what it is) was canned in 2017 and I always wished they would have just released it. X has open sourced some stuff and that is great, but whether they have been "really good" about this is debatable IMO.
  - asadlionpk 5y ago
    I am guessing either a) nobody pursued this for that project or b) the implementation had some cutting-edge/proprietary/secret-sauce (AI algos, models, data, etc) involved that came from some other part of Google.
  - gundmc 5y ago
    Fair enough, maybe I should have said "X has done this several[1][2] times with shut down projects and I think that's pretty cool because they had no obligation to do so." [1] - https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-project-amber-with-the-mental-health-community/ https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-project-amber-with-the-... [2] - https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-makani-with-the-world-the-energy-kite-collection/ https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-makani-with-the-world-t...
    - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
      It's cool, but one gets kind of irritated when they talk this big talk about changing the world but do not seem to appreciate just how transformative open source can be as a tool for innovation. At least, I got frustrated.
dwighttk 5y ago
I can guess why it is not still active. It is extremely energy intensive to condense water out of the air.
- jupp0r 5y ago
  Why would you care how energy intensive it is when it’s solar powered?
  - dwighttk 5y ago
    Go buy a 40 pint per day dehumidifier and then start sizing the solar power you will need to run it all day, and then make sure there is enough humidity in the air to actually get 40pints/day and make sure there is enough battery to make up for the days that aren’t sunny, and realize the people who need water generally don’t have that much water in the air, and then realize this is a pipe dream.
    - traverseda 5y ago
      It's not solar-electric, it's solar-thermal. Does need some power to circulate the desiccant.
      - dwighttk 5y ago
        I can guess why this project is not still active. My setup is probably more efficient than X’s setup.
nostrademons 5y ago
This could be great for a prepper's toolbox. If it actually hits the $150 price point, it's easily affordable for someone in the developed world who just wants to be prepared if the developed world un-develops, and drinking water's a critical survival need that many properties won't have available without municipal utilities or transportation. And in most apocalypse scenarios that you'd prepare for, you can't count on transportation remaining available.
- zaptrem 5y ago
  This seems relevant: > The prototype described here is a purely experimental device. While substitutions and modifications are reasonably straightforward, water harvested with this experimental device is not intended to be ingested. Among other design choices, adhesives were selected for experimental performance and would need to be substitued with ones meeting food grade standards.
  - oofbey 5y ago
    So typically Google. Patting themselves on the back for being smart and proving to themselves they could figure it out. But not actually accomplishing anything useful. Getting it to actually work - that’s too easy and boring for a googler to waste their time on.
    - Semaphor 5y ago
      They did the groundwork. Now it’s open source and anyone can improve/finish it. What would you prefer, them never releasing it, so interested people have nothing to start from? I’m not a Google fan, but I see this as a positive.
      - oofbey 5y ago
        But did they do anything new? Or did they just repeat a bunch of research others have already done into dehumidifying water extractors? I honestly don't know. A lot of the comments here make me think it's the latter.
eloeffler 5y ago
MIT made a similar device as well. I looked it up after hearing about people in Ukrainian cities being in need of water now. https://news.mit.edu/2020/solar-extracts-drinkable-water-1014 https://news.mit.edu/2020/solar-extracts-drinkable-water-101... There was a HN post 7 months ago, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28265067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28265067 The commenters didn't seem to see much use in it ^^
- gsich 5y ago
  It' still not useful. Most if not all devices are dehumidifiers.
tunnuz 5y ago
Folks on Tatooine will be stoked.
kamaal 5y ago
This kind of device is what I would expect somebody would build after reading Dune.
londons_explore 5y ago
The biggest question is why did they can the project? Without knowing that, I don't really want to touch it. If I spent a couple of years trying to take their prototype design and bring it to market, only to discover the fundamental flaw that also caused them to can the project, it would be massive waste of my time and resources.
boban_dj 5y ago
$150 cost and free cad files? for the needed? What a joke. It reminds me of the Americans spending thousands to develop a pen for Nasa in space. Some people took a pencil to space. Here is a project from 2015 already invented without the need of cad files and uses only local materials: https://www.warkawater.org/ https://www.warkawater.org/
- kved 5y ago
  Pencils are dangerous in space—they can cause fires. Also, the “space pens” were not developed with taxpayer money but instead by a private company, and they actually saved NASA a lot as they bought them for dollars instead of hundreds or thousands as they did with pencils. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-n...

486 points by johmathe 5y ago

databasher 5y ago

It turns out they are very similar to binary loadlifters in most respects.

Maursault 5y ago
You're thinking of vaporators. Binary loadlifters are heavy-lifting droids, though the binary programming language of those droids was quite similar to that of moisture vaporators. Maybe that's what you meant.

bushbaba 5y ago

Fixed the title for you: Google "deprecates" solar atmospheric water generator.

colesantiago 5y ago
accurate.

buescher 5y ago

Too bad Google X couldn't invent indoor plumbing instead.

babelfish 5y ago

What happens at X when a project like this is discontinued? Do the employees get shuffled around, let go...?

deleted 5y ago
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kajecounterhack 5y ago
I've heard some of the members of the project will get a payout for deciding to end the project (kind of an incentive to not keep failing projects going), and employees get a length of time to find a new home within Google / X. Though it's the same as any transfer process: you have to apply for available roles within the company, do fit chats, maybe do interviews, etc.

RenThraysk 5y ago

Fundamentally flawed idea. Places that need water are the most are dry, they have no humidity, as there is little to no water in the air.

whatshisface 5y ago
What about places with plenty of water, but where the water's all polluted?
- RenThraysk 5y ago
  Then you don't need to extract water from the air. Just make it potable.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    Depending on the type of pollution, making it potable could be just as hard as distilling it.
    - RenThraysk 5y ago
      Distilling still easier and more efficient than condensing water out of the air.
    - moffkalast 5y ago
      Then you just put it into a pot, hook up another pot with a tube, then set a fire under the first one. Basic distillation isn't rocket science.
      - whatshisface 5y ago
        Energy costs are the major limiter to desalination and the availability of water more broadly. One or two people can do that but if an entire civilization does it they'll clearcut their forests and make the air unbreatheable. Cooking fires are a major source of air pollution in many Indian cities.

gianpaj 5y ago

https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/main/Overview_deck.pdf https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/m...

blacksqr 5y ago

Estimated $150 price point. Requires an electric motor to circulate air. What is the intersection of people who a) can afford an expenditure of $150, b) have reliable access to electricity and can pay for it, and c) can't get their hands on five liters of clean water a day?

amelius 5y ago
You can use solar energy.
- blacksqr 5y ago
  Perhaps so, but not in the design being discussed here.
deleted 5y ago
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bun_at_work 5y ago
Many people don't have good access to clean water, over 2B according to the repo's readme. Those people probably cannot afford $150, but the goal of the project wasn't $150, it was lower. The unit is supposed to be solar powered, so access to electricity isn't strictly necessary, in the sense of being able to connect to the grid. They just need sunlight. There is a sweet spot of cost, where those who need it can't afford it, but nonprofits, billionaire philanthropists, and local governments can afford to purchase and distribute such devices where necessary. In cases where the need for clean water greatly outweighs the supply, such entities see a good return on investment, simply by improving the health of those people there. Furthermore, X is a moonshot program at Google. They attempt solutions for big problems with high likeihood of failure. Are you suggesting they shouldn't do this with their money printing ad machine? It seems like any good that comes out of that company should be celebrated, and in this case they are sharing a bunch of work on solving what will be an increasing large problem for the entire world.
- blacksqr 5y ago
  Did you look at the presentation deck in the linked repository? It clearly says "$150 target price point" It also clearly shows an electric circulating fan in the diagrams.

aaron695 5y ago

oneplane 5y ago

"Atmospheric water generators" (or: dehumidifiers) aren't new, the problem is that other means of obtaining water are almost always the better option (this includes access to funds, knowledge or materials). The places where this device would be helpful would only be helped if a bunch of them materialised out of thin air and would work with no maintenance or repairs, forever.

fian 5y ago

A similar idea from 15 years ago using a wind turbine instead of solar: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1071 http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsN...

ineedasername 5y ago

Son: "Dad, I'm thirsty, when can I have another sip of water?" Father: "Have patience my son, there's only 4 more ads until the next ounce will be generated, and we can usually skip one of them after a few seconds" I know, it's a cheap shot since X could have just mothballed the research and wrapped it up in patents.

holografix 5y ago

Not to disparage the open sourcing of this tech, it clearly contributes some knowledge to humaninity. But… Has Google Moonshot produced _anything_ that’s commercially a big success? Seems to me that giving Astro Teller and a bunch of smart people blank cheques helps them have tones of fun without the pressure of actually succeeding?

mrexample 5y ago

Thundefoot debunked similar products. I bet this finds no traction in real world. Only Americans buy into this kind shit and Elon Musks stupid ideas

traverseda 5y ago
A lot of people bringing up the thunderfoot video without realizing that this is... a completely different device. This is not solar-electric for one, it's direct solar heat. There's no peltier elements or anything like that, it uses ground temperature to provide the cold side of the dehumidifier. It does have a small electric motor and circulating fan, but that does not require very much power at all. It's a largely passive device and not really comparable to the solar electric designs. I wish people would use their own brain instead of just parroting whatever thunderfoot says. Maybe the problem is that people aren't finding the actual overview PDF? https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/main/Overview_deck.pdf https://github.com/google/h2e_technical_documentation/blob/m...

curiousfab 5y ago

The concept has been debunked over and over, e.g. by Thunderf00t. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVsqIjAeeXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVsqIjAeeXw

daenz 5y ago
Isn't the video you linked to a completely different concept? How does the debunking in that one apply to this one?
- outworlder 5y ago
  It is a very different concept, yes. Considerations of efficiency and power consumption are relevant... but not much else. Generally such devices are either too expensive, too maintenance heavy, or utterly inefficient. I'm not qualified to comment on, but I have found it interesting that it heats up the air (hotter air = can hold more moisture), passes the air through some material that's supposed to retain moisture, then cools it down with radiators. It seems that it would be more efficient in cold weather but would not perform nearly as well in a desert (where you need it to perform well as the moisture content is low during the day). So maybe Mr. Thunderfoot will be able to debunk this too. If he can refrain from reusing Theranos and Boring Co footage.
Loughla 5y ago
A problem with his debunking at a fundamental level - when calculating how often the air temperature is lower than the ground temperature, he uses Canada and Wisconsin. I'm not sure those are representative of Africa?
- imglorp 5y ago
  I think the key message of all the debunkings is this: "it depends". The device may work great in one condition but certainly not always like the vendors might tout. Given the triple point chart for water, the solar power for that day, and your humidity and temperature, you can compute the max you'll condense from the atmosphere.

throw8383833jj 5y ago

i've looked into air to water machines before and one downside i've noticed is that the energy use is really really high. one device I looked at was like 1 KW per 1.5 gallons or so! definately not something to water your lawn. At that energy usage, I'd say these are more useful for survival situations where you're only producing enough water for people to drink and survive. Other than that, I'm very excited about the propsects of air to water machines, I really really hope they become a lot more energy efficient.

ben_w 5y ago
Given this is supposed to make 5 litres per day and is targeted at people who do not have access to safe drinking water, 1 kwh (I assume you mean kwh not kw) for 5.7 or 6.8 litres (imperial and US gallons are different) seems acceptable.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

justbrandon2u 5y ago

Just dig a well. Or grab some ocean water and filter it. Then build a big pipe. Problem could be solved worldwide in less than 10 years. But then what?

daenz 5y ago
>ocean water Requires desalination, which is more complicated than simply filtering.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  That depends on what you consider "filtering". You can desalinate using reverse osmosis, which pretty much is filtering.
  - bduerst 5y ago
    RO filters are not price accessible the vast majority of people who do not currently have access to potable water. Same with desalination.
- kempbellt 5y ago
  Desalinization does not have to be complicated. You can build a simple desalinator (aka, a solar still) with a couple bins, some glass/plexiglass, and access to sunlight. Preferably in an enclosed system to better contain heat and prevent water vapor from escaping. No filters to replace, and it will run for as long as you feed it water. Best link I could find to explain the process: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/61215 https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/61215
  - yazaddaruvala 5y ago
    Where do you put the left over salt? At those levels it’s both toxic for animals and toxic for plants. Even putting it back into the ocean isn’t simple. If you do it in one big batch, you would kill everything in that location for a while. If you do it slowly, that isn’t simple.

dogleash 5y ago

If they’re giving it away for free, that must mean there is a fatal flaw they could never design around and are confident nobody else will either. What’s the point then? At least tell us why it’s a dead end.

toothpicked 5y ago
They don't opensource modern Google Search and it is also flawed...
ben_w 5y ago
Or that they just don’t see how it’s a market fit for their business.
- fallat 5y ago
  This. They did excellent internal work, decided it's not for them, but did something good and want to share it. Just because it's not profitable for them doesn't mean it was a waste - they can use their new knowledge in other areas.
- dogleash 5y ago
  Que? Isn't "don’t see how it’s a market fit" just startup speak for "it's not economically viable"? That would fall squarely into the category of design failures I was talking about. It's not like we don't know any mechanism to cause condensation from air.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    It's not economically viable with their usual profit margin, on a market large enough to pay for their fixed costs, with the suppliers and labor they have around, and a lot of other constraints. That doesn't mean it's useless for everybody. So they publishing it may improve somebody's life.
  - rat9988 5y ago
    Lowering cost by manufacturing at scale is knowledge they don't have, and they do need to make it financially viable. Other people might have it and make it viable.

colesantiago 5y ago

I really wish it wasn't Google, the spyware company that open sourced this. But rather a different company without all the bad and toxic disgusting ethics that Google has.

jwineinger 5y ago
The phrase "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" comes to mind. Just because some of the practices of this large company are bad, it doesn't mean everything to come from it is. Keep the good stuff, ditch the rest.
- colesantiago 5y ago
  Again. I prefer a different company to work on this problem. Google just makes this act highly suspect and non altruistic. It is like Facebook and Internet.org, we keep allowing these tech companies to continue to build these trojan horses.
Jabbles 5y ago
So you're saying you wish Google concentrated on evil and didn't have any redeeming qualities at all?
- colesantiago 5y ago
  No redeeming qualities. This is only a gesture of distraction. All Google has concentrated on is evil. Hell, this project could be the aftermath of a Google PM gutting a team.
  - johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago
    I whole-heartedly agree. Google is using this projects as a cover so that they can keep invading our privacy and keep uesrs hostages for money.

sitkack 5y ago

> Our assessment—using Google Earth Engine13—introduces a hypothetical 1-metre-square device with a SY profle of 0.2 to 2.5 litres per kilowatthour (0.1 to 1.25 litres per kilowatt-hour for a 2-metre-square device) at 30% to 90% RH, respectively. The upper bound is nice, the lower bound kinda hurts. I can't tell if they are tracking the night cycle and harvesting when the dewpoint drops. Is this all calculation or is there a blueprint I am missing.

deleted 5y ago

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cwkoss 5y ago

I want to make an orchard on a hill in the maritime pacific northwest. Its a somewhat odd climate where the time that gets hottest is when it also tends to be dryest (east coast tends to be wetter when hotter). I wonder if something like this (possibly with less focus on "clean" water - it's rural and breezy, so I don' think raw output would harm trees...) could be suitable for generating summer water for tree irrigation. I wish the overview PDF had more labels...

throwawayboise 5y ago
If it's extracting water from the air, "hot and dry" does not seem to be a good situation. You'd want humid air. Any water condensed from the air is going to be "pure" by most measures. It's essentially distilled water.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  The purity of the water you get from the air is limited by how much dust is on the air you work with. You can improve it easily by filtering. It's much easier than filtering the final water. But it's not necessarily pure.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  Fair point, I thought part of the energy was being used for purification before I read the overview pdf. The site is ~ 1/4 mile from the ocean, so I think the air won't be totally dry... but just won't get a lot of rainfall. Mostly wondering if there's a good way to 'moisture farm' to keep the soil around trees moist. Ideally with no more power than a small solar panel located right next to the device, so I don't have to run power there (there's well and power at the bottom of the hill... but moisture farming would be cooler than running irrigation :-P).
- outworlder 5y ago
  > Any water condensed from the air is going to be "pure" by most measures. It's essentially distilled water. And you can freely give it for spherical cows to drink in vacuum. Keeping any such device free from contamination is very difficult. Bacteria love the moist environments. Leave it unattended and you have moist dust. Lovely.

Iolaum 5y ago

Is it me or does this project have Dune vibes? Pity that it couldn't move forward.

x3n0ph3n3 5y ago
That's because it's a fundamentally dumb idea and the promises made by proponents violate the laws of thermodynamics.

fareesh 5y ago

Does anyone know of a YouTube video of a similar device? Or perhaps the same one

artificial 5y ago
Would this fit the bill? I thought these were super cool for offgrid: http://www.skywell.com/ http://www.skywell.com/

Ansil849 5y ago

So what is the practical use of this? Let's say that I'm not an engineer or a researcher or a coder, but would like to set some of these units up to collect water. How do I do so? Do I approach someone to build this for me (who?)? How much can I expect it to cost? In other words, how can I actualize this vision: > So the H2E team asked: “What if you could put the power to generate daily drinking water into the hands of individuals, no matter where they live, by creating an affordable, easy to use device that harvests water from the air and is powered by the sun?"

adrianwaj 5y ago
Are there any sites that help build groups around current and upcoming open-source projects, and also encourage people to make stuff open-source - perhaps with pledges? ... a more business-focused GitHub. ... an OpenSea for inventors. Imagine if money spent on NFTs would go to cool projects instead of avatars!
- kickout 5y ago
  Also imagine if money spent on stock buybacks went somewhere productive. :/
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    If a company can't think of anything useful and cost-effective to spend their money on, giving that money back in the way that passes through the largest portion of it is the most productive thing they could do. Let the investors allocate their money efficiently, rather than buying a gold mine as a movie theatre company (as an example).
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      rather than buying a gold mine as a movie theatre That's a pretty random example. Crypto? Maybe. But it's not like AMC is going to randomly get into the actual physical mining busin-- (hold on, it's 2022, lmgt just in case) Yes, a perfectly good example.

mrfusion 5y ago

Is there a simple expansion of how it works?

Ansil849 5y ago

Are there any consumer-grade atmospheric solar water generators on the market right now? I did a very quick search and didn't find anything. Is there anything like this that people can buy right now?

tppiotrowski 5y ago
Quick Google found this: https://www.source.co/ https://www.source.co/ Edit: There's also this water bottle I remember seeing a while back on Kickstarter or Indigogo. It doesn't seem like they actually sell it on the website: https://fontus.at/ https://fontus.at/
- Ansil849 5y ago
  Super interesting, thanks. Kind of surprised more people aren't talking about this.
- pjy04 5y ago
  Yes, this is the company in Arizona. They can do about 4-5 liters a day without an external power source.
- hanniabu 5y ago
  It says clean, but isn't it only as clean as the surrounding air? For example if you used this next to a manufacturing plant spewing chemicals into the air, won't these contaminants be captured by the condensation and make it into the water?
igorhvr 5y ago
If you don't mind having to add the solar kit for power (separate purchase) https://www.accairwater.com/home-atmospheric-drinking-water-generator_p27.html https://www.accairwater.com/home-atmospheric-drinking-water-... and similar products could be used..
colechristensen 5y ago
You could buy a few solar panels, an inverter, a dehumidifier, and a water filter and be fine. The problem is sizing the power generation and dehumidifier to match and generate an amount of water meaningful to you. Regardless you need quite a bit of solar to get a decent amount of water.

anonporridge 5y ago

So, a solar powered dehumidifier? At first pass, I would guess that something like this would primarily be useful in places with naturally high humidity, which aren't likely to have a shortage of water in the first place, no? Maybe the argument is that the natural sources of water are dirty, and extracting from the air is automatically clean and safe to drink, but it still seems like it may be more resource efficient to invest in water treatment, not a fleet of dehumidifiers.

sbradford26 5y ago
It might have some use in coastal areas where salt water can contaminate wells sometimes. But you are right it might just be worth pursuing something like desalination powered by solar power in those situations.
outworlder 5y ago
> and extracting from the air is automatically clean and safe to drink It isn't, though. Bacteria accumulate. Dehumidifiers are generally very nasty. Although bacteria can then be killed (not sure about their toxins), while other contaminants may not be very easy to get rid of. Almost every place on Earth has humidity above 0%. Which makes it possible to extract water, even if it's very inefficient. People have condensed water successfully in deserts.
- kragen 5y ago
  Bacteriostatic materials aren't rocket science. One of the best dehumidifier materials, copper, is also one of the best bacteriostats. It's just expensive.

deleted 5y ago

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lsb 5y ago

One of the pioneers in the field is still going strong: http://yaghi.berkeley.edu/ http://yaghi.berkeley.edu/

opless 5y ago

An open source dehumidifier ? Haven’t there been umpteen attempts at this? I thought there’s not that much water in the air. The volume of air to move must be crazy. Maybe I should read TFA

tjpnz 5y ago
A cursory glance of TFA suggests that it probably is another dehumidifier. Depending on the environment it might yield a small amount of water, but certainly not the kind you would want to be drinking without treatment. I look forward to thunderf00t's video on it.
hobs 5y ago
As far as I know every "water from air" is literally a dehumidifier and is going to produce dirty water at 1000x the cost of just driving water anywhere on earth.
- opless 5y ago
  This guy has done several busting videos on similar devices https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGTRX6pZSns https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGTRX6pZSns
- jupp0r 5y ago
  What makes you think the water that’s in the air you are currently breathing is “dirty”?
  - hobs 5y ago
    All air we breathe has bacteria and molds and dehumidifiers are a perfect place for Bad Things to grow. https://hvacguides101.com/is-dehumidifier-water-safe-to-drink/ https://hvacguides101.com/is-dehumidifier-water-safe-to-drin...

cypherpunks01 5y ago

Can the desiccant work in perpetuity? Or is it more of a "wear part" that needs replacement? I don't understand enough of the desiccant types mentioned in the Nature paper to know.

eointierney 5y ago

So imagine if you could convince the open source community of the planet to optimise clean water consumption based on a cool prototype and then you mass produce hyper-efficient instances linked to a google account. Saving the planet one artificial intelligence at a time.

jodrellblank 5y ago

Check out Thunderf00t's videos cricising solar water collectors, e.g.: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc7WqVMCABg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc7WqVMCABg - Zero Mass Water: BUSTED! "Honestly, it drives me crazy how many people have reinvented the dehumidifier, put a solar panel on it, and the media has danced around like theyve just saved the world!" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPvXnmBIO7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPvXnmBIO7o - Self-filling water bottle: BUSTED! "The fact that its thermodynamically impossible seem to stop 'science communicators' from promoting this. The fact that its a really dumb, and not particularly inventive idea didnt stop the 'science communicators' from promoting this. Kinda depressing really." Problems include: - it's much cheaper to bring in a tanker of water from somewhere else, than for the electricity to do this. - It's a dehumidifier; in places where the air is wet, it rains, and you don't need it. In places where you need it, you need it because there's not much water, so it doesn't work well. - It's going to be prone to growing bacteria; warm and moist. - It needs a vast volume of air; when water becomes steam it expands 1000x. Which means to go the other way you need at least 1000 litres of steam dragged through for a litre of water. Air can be around 4% water says Britannica.com, so 20,000 litres of humid air for a litre of water if it's perfectly efficient. Thunderf00t's estimate is 50,000 litres of air for 1 litre of water; And the air needs to be cooled. That needs big fans and lots of power (air is heavy to move).

noogle 5y ago
> in places where the air is wet, it rains, and you don't need it. - Rain water collected in ponds/rivers may be contaminated/infested. - Lack of fresh water in the ocean/islands is also an issue. The two things that are available almost everywhere are air and sun.
- kragen 5y ago
  Rainwater cisterns are a viable option if you have rain.
  - RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
    And if you dont?

INTPenis 5y ago

Open sources is another word for "abandons". Israel has made a massive desalination plant, to turn salt water into potable water and it's no easy task. If they could have taken water from the atmosphere I'm sure they would have tried. It's a pipe dream so far.

skybrian 5y ago
In this sense, isn't most research abandoned after the paper is written? But there are better and worse ways to do it.
canadaduane 5y ago
> Open sources is another word for "abandons". They are not equivalent. Yes, it's disappointing; however, open sourcing it makes it easier for someone else to continue the relay race, rather than needlessly experience Groundhog Day.
croon 5y ago
The absolute worst case for open sourcing ("abandoning") a project is showing everyone else what you did and what results you reached or didn't, meaning everyone can avoid doing the same thing again, which is still a positive. All other scenarios are even better.
macleginn 5y ago
They have tried, actually, and are trying still: https://www.technion.ac.il/en/2021/07/water-from-air-europe-innovation-award/ https://www.technion.ac.il/en/2021/07/water-from-air-europe-...

celdon25 5y ago

Dean Kamen claimed on the Colbert Report in 2008 to have invented a machine that can produce 1000 liters per day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg1Hu0PMG0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg1Hu0PMG0

discordance 5y ago
The Slingshot. Purifies via vapor distillation. Last I heard Dean Kamen made an agreement with Coke where they would help Coke build a water soda fountain in return for Cokes distribution network. Not sure what has happened since. Hope it still works out, but I feel another sad Segway story coming up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot_(water_vapor_distillation_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot_(water_vapor_distill...

posharma 5y ago

From the README, "This is no longer an active project at X" ==> (implies) ==> We don't care about it any more, so we're dumping it here. Do what you want :-)

deleted 5y ago
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rootsudo 5y ago

We should have a saying, beware corporations bearing gifts?

gundmc 5y ago

X has been really good about open sourcing all of the technical information from shut down projects. They did the same for the Makani power-generating kites. Love to see stuff like this

TaylorAlexander 5y ago
Citation needed. I worked there for two years and there are a LOT of projects that are sitting collecting dust that in my opinion could really help people if they were released as open source. The one I am thinking of (not my place to disclose what it is) was canned in 2017 and I always wished they would have just released it. X has open sourced some stuff and that is great, but whether they have been "really good" about this is debatable IMO.
- asadlionpk 5y ago
  I am guessing either a) nobody pursued this for that project or b) the implementation had some cutting-edge/proprietary/secret-sauce (AI algos, models, data, etc) involved that came from some other part of Google.
- gundmc 5y ago
  Fair enough, maybe I should have said "X has done this several[1][2] times with shut down projects and I think that's pretty cool because they had no obligation to do so." [1] - https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-project-amber-with-the-mental-health-community/ https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-project-amber-with-the-... [2] - https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-makani-with-the-world-the-energy-kite-collection/ https://x.company/blog/posts/sharing-makani-with-the-world-t...
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    It's cool, but one gets kind of irritated when they talk this big talk about changing the world but do not seem to appreciate just how transformative open source can be as a tool for innovation. At least, I got frustrated.

dwighttk 5y ago

I can guess why it is not still active. It is extremely energy intensive to condense water out of the air.

jupp0r 5y ago
Why would you care how energy intensive it is when it’s solar powered?
- dwighttk 5y ago
  Go buy a 40 pint per day dehumidifier and then start sizing the solar power you will need to run it all day, and then make sure there is enough humidity in the air to actually get 40pints/day and make sure there is enough battery to make up for the days that aren’t sunny, and realize the people who need water generally don’t have that much water in the air, and then realize this is a pipe dream.
  - traverseda 5y ago
    It's not solar-electric, it's solar-thermal. Does need some power to circulate the desiccant.
    - dwighttk 5y ago
      I can guess why this project is not still active. My setup is probably more efficient than X’s setup.

nostrademons 5y ago

This could be great for a prepper's toolbox. If it actually hits the $150 price point, it's easily affordable for someone in the developed world who just wants to be prepared if the developed world un-develops, and drinking water's a critical survival need that many properties won't have available without municipal utilities or transportation. And in most apocalypse scenarios that you'd prepare for, you can't count on transportation remaining available.

zaptrem 5y ago
This seems relevant: > The prototype described here is a purely experimental device. While substitutions and modifications are reasonably straightforward, water harvested with this experimental device is not intended to be ingested. Among other design choices, adhesives were selected for experimental performance and would need to be substitued with ones meeting food grade standards.
- oofbey 5y ago
  So typically Google. Patting themselves on the back for being smart and proving to themselves they could figure it out. But not actually accomplishing anything useful. Getting it to actually work - that’s too easy and boring for a googler to waste their time on.
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    They did the groundwork. Now it’s open source and anyone can improve/finish it. What would you prefer, them never releasing it, so interested people have nothing to start from? I’m not a Google fan, but I see this as a positive.
    - oofbey 5y ago
      But did they do anything new? Or did they just repeat a bunch of research others have already done into dehumidifying water extractors? I honestly don't know. A lot of the comments here make me think it's the latter.

eloeffler 5y ago

MIT made a similar device as well. I looked it up after hearing about people in Ukrainian cities being in need of water now. https://news.mit.edu/2020/solar-extracts-drinkable-water-1014 https://news.mit.edu/2020/solar-extracts-drinkable-water-101... There was a HN post 7 months ago, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28265067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28265067 The commenters didn't seem to see much use in it ^^

gsich 5y ago
It' still not useful. Most if not all devices are dehumidifiers.

tunnuz 5y ago

Folks on Tatooine will be stoked.

kamaal 5y ago

This kind of device is what I would expect somebody would build after reading Dune.

londons_explore 5y ago

The biggest question is why did they can the project? Without knowing that, I don't really want to touch it. If I spent a couple of years trying to take their prototype design and bring it to market, only to discover the fundamental flaw that also caused them to can the project, it would be massive waste of my time and resources.

boban_dj 5y ago

$150 cost and free cad files? for the needed? What a joke. It reminds me of the Americans spending thousands to develop a pen for Nasa in space. Some people took a pencil to space. Here is a project from 2015 already invented without the need of cad files and uses only local materials: https://www.warkawater.org/ https://www.warkawater.org/

kved 5y ago
Pencils are dangerous in space—they can cause fires. Also, the “space pens” were not developed with taxpayer money but instead by a private company, and they actually saved NASA a lot as they bought them for dollars instead of hundreds or thousands as they did with pencils. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-n...