8 ms·
The actual implementation is a little more nuanced than always roll or never roll, with seven conditions required to avoid coming to a complete stop: 1. The
by ccorda 5y ago
The actual implementation is a little more nuanced than always roll or never roll, with seven conditions required to avoid coming to a complete stop:
1. The functionality must be enabled within the FSD Beta Profile settings; and
2. The vehicle must be approaching an all-way stop intersection; and
3. The vehicle must be traveling below 5.6mph; and
4. No relevant moving cars are detected near the intersection; and
5. No relevant pedestrians or bicyclists are detected near the intersection; and
6. There is sufficient visibility for the vehicle while approaching the intersection; and
7. All roads entering the intersection have a speed limit of 30 mph or less.
If all the above conditions are met, only then will the vehicle travel through the all-way-stop intersection at a speed from 0.1 mph up to 5.6 mph without first coming to a complete stop. If any of the above conditions are not met, the functionality will not activate and the vehicle will come to a complete stop
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V037-4462.PDF https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V037-4462.PDF
- margalabargala 5y agoIf a cop watches me roll through an otherwise empty stop sign intersection at 5.6mph, they would absolutely give me a ticket.
- bpodgursky 5y agoThis is not true for cops anywhere I have lived, and I'm sorry you live somewhere with such pointlessly strict policing. 5.6mph is de facto stopped.
- Tarrosion 5y agoA heavy car or SUV at 5.6mph has about the same kinetic energy as me on my bike at 28mph (25x weight difference / 5x speed difference). I don't know about you, but I would prefer not to be hit head on by an adult on a bike traveling 28mph! On the other hand, an actually stopped car could definitionally not hit someone.
- geraldwhen 5y agoThis is a naive analysis of the forces involved. Would you rather be hit by a semi-truck going 1mph or a bike going 28mph? The semi truck won’t actually “hit” you. Not in a way where you’re imparted with it’s full kinetic energy.
- Tarrosion 5y ago> Would you rather be hit by a semi-truck going 1mph or a bike going 28mph? I'm actually not sure. The initial impact would hurt more with the bike, suggesting that perhaps momentum or something else proportional to velocity (not v^2) is a good heuristic there. But if I tripped after impact, the bike would do no further damage to me and the semi would be ~1s away from killing me.
- bloomark 5y agoThe semi-truck will come to a stop a lot slower than a bike, and because I won't be able to avoid either I'd rather get hit by the bike.
- sorokod 5y agoDe facto but not de jure.
- b3morales 5y ago5.6 miles per hour is a fast jogging speed if you're on foot, twice as fast as typical walking speed. It is not a stop, doubly so if you're in a big metal box. Please don't do this.
- margalabargala 5y agoIMO 5.6mph is a lot faster than de facto stopped, and hitting someone at 5.6mph can seriously injure someone. 2-3mph I think is more reasonable for rolling through.
- mdoms 5y agoSo presumably the Tesla is aware of all local laws and, more importantly, how strictly they are enforced from town to town, in every market the Tesla is sold or imported, in order to use this functionality safely and without resulting in ticketed traffic violations?
- margalabargala 5y ago> more importantly, how strictly they are enforced from town to town Does this dataset actually exist anywhere? I would bet that at best it might be able to be inaccurately inferred from other data. Regardless, if we as a society decide to build self-driving cars, should we really be optimizing for the financial well-being of the driver (via tickets) over the physical wellbeing of the humans in the society (who are hit by FSD cars that roll stop signs in areas with less traffic enforcement).
- bo1024 5y agoSpeaking as a city runner, you are 100000% wrong, and I have had numerous close calls demonstrating this. If you roll through at 5.6mph while I am jogging into the intersection from your side, I will often be hidden by your A pillar the entire time right up until you hit me. And a 5.6mph point-blank hit to a pedestrian can be serious. (edit: I have avoided these hits so far by watching people's eyes. If I can't see them see me, I stop regardless of right of way. This usually gives them a nice scare as they're rolling into the intersection and glance out their side window to see a person standing right there 'out of nowhere'. Not sure how I'll tell with FSD.)
- Mavvie 5y ago> Not sure how I'll tell with FSD In theory, FSD shouldn't have blind spots like an A pillar for human drivers. But I agree with your point.
- idop 5y agoAs someone who did actually get run over when running through a crossroad as a kid, I _never_ run through crossroads since then, regardless of eye contact or not. Runners (and the much loved sidewalk cyclists) are much farther from the road than a walking pedestrian. The drivers are NOT seeing you coming.
- caf 5y agoI will often be hidden by your A pillar the entire time right up until you hit me. This is called a "Constant Bearing / Decreasing Range" collision.
- misiti3780 5y agoI second this, it is different depending on where you live.
- halestock 5y agoNever having been stopped for doing this and confirming with police that they do not stop people for this are separate things, and I'm willing to bet that in your case it's the former, not the latter.
- MisterSandman 5y agoAll right, meet me in the parking lot, I'll be driving my car at 5.6 mph and you can run into my car and see how you feel about that.
- colinmhayes 5y agoThis just depends on location I guess. Everyone here rolls through at 10-15, especially cops.
- rootusrootus 5y agoThat's no longer a stop sign.
- onphonenow 5y agoPathetic by the police - you can see how disrespect builds in these cases. They ignore rampant theft and violence and are busting people on empty cross roads in middle of nowhere for not coming to a full and complete stop. I continue to support policing, but I wish they wouldn't get sucked into this type of work where they basically make even normal people hate them.
- b3morales 5y agoThe safety of this procedure rests heavily on the determination of "relevant" and the result of "detection". What is the outcome if those fail?
- stefan_ 5y agoHow about 1. stop It's wild they even put this into a NHTSA filing, not to mention rolling it out in the first place.
- alanh 5y agoHard to imagine your outrage is real. Go to the closest stop sign and watch who comes to a complete stop. Is it anyone?
- stefan_ 5y agoThis is ironic because next time there is a bike article, you get all the professional drivers in this thread commenting "but they never stop at stop signs!". Can't have it both ways. The statistical evidence is clear: the average US driver is tremendously unsafe, untrained, unobservant and unskilled despite their country being built around driving everywhere. Their remonstrations on all the rule breaking they can perform safely stems purely from ignorance of their own inabilities.
- Reubachi 5y agoThe average driver is incredibly unsafe. due in part to willingness, ignorance, stress, unperfect road conditions, etc. The laws say to stop, LEO say to stop, etc. I can't think of a defence to not stop beyond "No one else does it."
- yupper32 5y agoYou'll see me stop. It takes 1 second more to come to a complete stop. Just do it. You sound like the kind of person to not signal when you change lanes because you think there's plenty of room.
- _ea1k 5y agoIn my area, the vast majority do. The rolling stops are called a "california stop" for a reason.
- kazen44 5y agoin my country (the netherlands) i have seen people stop at stop signs at times when there is very, very little traffic (04:00 at night). The point is also much more about creating a habit in which this kind of behaviour is just done, regardless of the state of the traffic on the road. The law says you must stop for a stop sign, stop signs are placed in places in which sudden traffic participants could enter your field of vision at a time in which it is too late to react properly. Also, people get fined for ignoring stop signs, even if no one is present. Driving education in the netherlands is quite strict and so are punishments for drivers. For instance, the driver of a car is always at fault for an accident with a "weak" traffic participant (foot/bike traffic), even if technically they werent at fault. (there is process to fight this in court if you assume ill intent/fraud is at play, although it is rarely used). the reasoning being that the driver of a car has had a drivers education and can thus act responsible while driving a hunk of metal down the road at lethal speeds.
- hooande 5y agoTesla needs to set a specific profile for drivers of different races. A rolling stop in some places could get a black person arrested or killed
- drexlspivey 5y agoI am sure this feature is going to be received well
- ec109685 5y ago"As of January 27, 2022, Tesla is not aware of any warranty claims, field reports, crashes, injuries or fatalities related to this condition." Wish they would have looked at data with the feature enabled versus disabled (more rear end collisions possibly)?
- caf 5y ago3. The vehicle must be traveling below 5.6mph; and As an aside, I assume this is 2.5 m/s converted to mph.
- Traster 5y agoIsn't this hilarious, reminds me of the old joke: You say: "We added AI to our product" I hear: "We added a bunch more IF statements to our codebase"