8 ms·

This is the original report by investigative reporter John Archibald: https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-town-suck-drivers-into-legal-b

This is the original report by investigative reporter John Archibald: https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-town-suck-drivers-into-legal-black-hole.html https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-... Some notable points collected by a commenter on another site: - "...just one of the 10 Brookside vehicles is painted with police striping, but nine others bear no emblems..." - "...officers wear gray uniforms with no Brookside insignias." - "The names of the officers were not listed on the tickets in secretive Brookside." - "[the city budget] did not feature a breakout of the police department." - "Asked in December how many officers were on staff, [the police chief] refused to say, citing “security” concerns..." - "[The mayor and the police chief] said neither the town nor the police department relies on the revenue officers bring in. In fact, they said in November they didn’t know how that money is spent." As others have pointed out, this sort of thing is not exactly rare, this is just a particularly egregious example of it. And this is after decades of attempts to 'reform' the police. When people talk about defunding or abolishing the police, they refer to razing systems like this (or parts like this in larger departments) to the ground, rethinking and rebuilding based on the needs of the community.

phkahler 5y ago
>> "The names of the officers were not listed on the tickets in secretive Brookside." I mean, don't we have a right to face our accuser in court? Can't do that if their name is not on the ticket.
emptybottle 5y ago
> When people talk about defunding or abolishing the police, they refer to razing systems like this (or parts like this in larger departments) to the ground, rethinking and rebuilding based on the needs of the community. All too often arguments against this interpret 'defund' at the farthest possible extreme, but no one is calling for an end of law enforcement. The reality is that providing constant budget increases for better weapons, faster cars, additional staff, etc. is causing the police to become more militarized. The Military are a defense against enemies. As police become more militarized their enemy becomes the civilians who they are meant to protect and serve. The actual idea is to defund police departments as they are structured today, and allocate that money instead to social and mental health programs as well as law enforcement with a foundation in de-escalation and transparency. Of course there would still be law enforcement to maintain peace and safety, and it would be based on transparency and accountability.
- bnralt 5y ago
  > no one is calling for an end of law enforcement. There are several comments in this discussion calling for abolishing the police. Whenever this topic gets brought up, it usually seems like half the people are defending "Defund the Police" by saying that no one wants to get rid of the police, and the other half are defending "Defund the Police" by telling people why the police should be abolished. And people with political power are calling for the abolishing them as well. This is Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib from last April: > No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed. I'm not sure why people who want reform are so set on tying themselves to this slogan. If I starting chanting "Defund Public Schools!", I wouldn't expect anyone to interpret that as "remove bloat from school budgets and use the money to fund social services for the kids in order to lessen the burden on teachers and make public schools function better." [1] https://twitter.com/rashidatlaib/status/1381745303997534216?lang=en https://twitter.com/rashidatlaib/status/1381745303997534216?...
  - emptybottle 5y ago
    I used the term 'law enforcement' and not the term 'police' intentionally as law enforcement is an umbrella while police are a specific group within it. The way I see it the police subgroup could be defunded with new approaches deployed to maintain peace and safety, without needing to cease law enforcement as a whole.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
poulsbohemian 5y ago
> "...just one of the 10 Brookside vehicles is painted with police striping, but nine others bear no emblems..." What I'm struggling with here is that the article says they have 8 FTE officers plus additional part-time / volunteer officers... so why do they have so darn many cars? Or to put it another way - my town of 35,000 has 48 FTE positions, 5 of which weren't filled this past year. That's in line with other communities of similar size that I've observed. So it puts the size of this department in perspective - it's a vey large headcount for the size of the community, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they are taking action either out of boredom or because someone is on the take.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  > so why do they have so darn many cars? So each FTE gets to use a top-of-the-line new SUV as a take-home vehicle.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
BobbyJo 5y ago
> When people talk about defunding or abolishing the police, they refer to razing systems like this (or parts like this in larger departments) to the ground, rethinking and rebuilding based on the needs of the community. Some sure. Certainly not all. I don't even think most. If I'm wrong, then the meme itself needs better phrasing.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ryguytilidie 5y ago
  So you're dismissing the defund the police movement based on the phrasing and not knowing anything about it? What would be so harmful with learning about the thing you're speaking about with authority before doing so...?
- helen___keller 5y ago
  > Some sure. Certainly not all. I don't even think most. If I'm wrong, then the meme itself needs better phrasing. The meme lives in the gray space of non-specifism, where every person for or against imposes their preferred meaning If you go to a somewhat authoritative source such as https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/ https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/ then you get > We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive. But what does it mean to have “resources to … survive [and] thrive”? I would argue it implies a rethinking and rebuilding of policing based on the needs of the community, like GP claims. Another leftist might think it’s the anarchical approach. It’s vague, more or less intentionally
  - snomad 5y ago
    Its a Motte and Bailey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_castle
    - helen___keller 5y ago
jimbob45 5y ago
No, abolishing the police means getting rid of the police. You don’t get to redefine words with this sort of Doublespeak. You wanted to capitalize on the thrill of saying something as bold as “Abolish the police” and then backpedal when it became convenient to take a more reasonable approach. It’s dishonest and it’s becoming a pattern after “Black Lives Matter” was called out for being similarly problematic. This isn’t limited to the left either. “Read my lips: no new taxes”, “Lock her up”, and “Build the wall” were likewise dishonest.
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  They might not get to “redefine words” but neither do you get to just change them to fit your point. The slogan used “defund” not ‘abolish”. “Defund” is somewhat ambiguous, indeed. That the initial slogan with “abolish” didn’t catch on actually helps to show that abolishment was not the intended meaning.
  - jimbob45 5y ago
    The parent poster used "abolish" which is why I used it. Also, that's the phrase I've most seen in the media. I respect that you may have seen "defund" used more frequently. "Defund" isn't exactly ambiguous either. If you defund a police department, you've abolished it because police officers aren't going to work for free and the police buildings and vehicles will deteriorate from not being maintained. It is not possible to have a police force without funding. It's like if I said "we should fire bullets at JimBob", and then after that happened acting surprised that JimBob died. "Whoa whoa whoa I just said to fire bullets at him, not kill him!" really shouldn't be fooling anyone.
- pc86 5y ago
  HW absolutely meant "No new taxes" when he said it. That doesn't make it dishonest, but it does illustrate why boxing yourself into dogmatic ideological stances is a bad move from a policy standpoint.
- dls2016 5y ago
  I have just the slogan for you: "No Political Slogans!"
sschueller 5y ago
Sorry to say but who ever decided that the phrase "defund the police" is good or smart made a huge mistake. Or they may have deliberately picked a phrase that would upset and confuse a large number of people. It has split the political discord right down the middle and you will never get proper reform. The phrase that should have been used is "reform the police" because it would get almost every one aboard even the police themselves. Nothing is perfect in this world and almost every one can think of a way to improve something. This decade of attempt to reform the police most people didn't know or care about. This new movement could have brought it to light and get something done that everyone can agree on. Instead it turned into a left vs right shit show.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  >it would get almost everyone on aboard even the police themselves
  - sschueller 5y ago
    I think at this point you need a national change and force new regulations down from the top. But the movement has turned into a left vs right issue and there will be no change from this government stalemate.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- acid__ 5y ago
  The phrase is ubiquitous not in spite of its controversial nature, but rather _because of_ it. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage...
  - helen___keller 5y ago
    This is definitely one of the less-fun emergent phenomena of the internet and social media. Personally this is why I believe in building better social media bubbles, as much as most people disagree with the concept of a social media bubble I think it’s the only way to stay sane
boringg 5y ago
You had a lot of interesting pieces and then diluted the impact of your statement by tying in "defunding the police" which is an overly fraught almost meaningless phrase at this point since it means almost something completely different to every person who hears it - which loses all its value. I think most reasonable people can agree with your previous points that this is in fact a corrupted system. That was where you had the most power of your comment.
dang 5y ago
Ok, we've changed the URL to that from https://jalopnik.com/this-tiny-alabama-town-of-1-200-has-been-overrun-by-pol-1848389331 https://jalopnik.com/this-tiny-alabama-town-of-1-200-has-bee.... Thanks!
- ipnon 5y ago
  Doing Always Naturally Great

phkahler 5y ago

>> "The names of the officers were not listed on the tickets in secretive Brookside." I mean, don't we have a right to face our accuser in court? Can't do that if their name is not on the ticket.

emptybottle 5y ago

> When people talk about defunding or abolishing the police, they refer to razing systems like this (or parts like this in larger departments) to the ground, rethinking and rebuilding based on the needs of the community. All too often arguments against this interpret 'defund' at the farthest possible extreme, but no one is calling for an end of law enforcement. The reality is that providing constant budget increases for better weapons, faster cars, additional staff, etc. is causing the police to become more militarized. The Military are a defense against enemies. As police become more militarized their enemy becomes the civilians who they are meant to protect and serve. The actual idea is to defund police departments as they are structured today, and allocate that money instead to social and mental health programs as well as law enforcement with a foundation in de-escalation and transparency. Of course there would still be law enforcement to maintain peace and safety, and it would be based on transparency and accountability.

bnralt 5y ago
> no one is calling for an end of law enforcement. There are several comments in this discussion calling for abolishing the police. Whenever this topic gets brought up, it usually seems like half the people are defending "Defund the Police" by saying that no one wants to get rid of the police, and the other half are defending "Defund the Police" by telling people why the police should be abolished. And people with political power are calling for the abolishing them as well. This is Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib from last April: > No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed. I'm not sure why people who want reform are so set on tying themselves to this slogan. If I starting chanting "Defund Public Schools!", I wouldn't expect anyone to interpret that as "remove bloat from school budgets and use the money to fund social services for the kids in order to lessen the burden on teachers and make public schools function better." [1] https://twitter.com/rashidatlaib/status/1381745303997534216?lang=en https://twitter.com/rashidatlaib/status/1381745303997534216?...
- emptybottle 5y ago
  I used the term 'law enforcement' and not the term 'police' intentionally as law enforcement is an umbrella while police are a specific group within it. The way I see it the police subgroup could be defunded with new approaches deployed to maintain peace and safety, without needing to cease law enforcement as a whole.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

poulsbohemian 5y ago

> "...just one of the 10 Brookside vehicles is painted with police striping, but nine others bear no emblems..." What I'm struggling with here is that the article says they have 8 FTE officers plus additional part-time / volunteer officers... so why do they have so darn many cars? Or to put it another way - my town of 35,000 has 48 FTE positions, 5 of which weren't filled this past year. That's in line with other communities of similar size that I've observed. So it puts the size of this department in perspective - it's a vey large headcount for the size of the community, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they are taking action either out of boredom or because someone is on the take.

crooked-v 5y ago
> so why do they have so darn many cars? So each FTE gets to use a top-of-the-line new SUV as a take-home vehicle.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

BobbyJo 5y ago

> When people talk about defunding or abolishing the police, they refer to razing systems like this (or parts like this in larger departments) to the ground, rethinking and rebuilding based on the needs of the community. Some sure. Certainly not all. I don't even think most. If I'm wrong, then the meme itself needs better phrasing.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ryguytilidie 5y ago
So you're dismissing the defund the police movement based on the phrasing and not knowing anything about it? What would be so harmful with learning about the thing you're speaking about with authority before doing so...?
helen___keller 5y ago
> Some sure. Certainly not all. I don't even think most. If I'm wrong, then the meme itself needs better phrasing. The meme lives in the gray space of non-specifism, where every person for or against imposes their preferred meaning If you go to a somewhat authoritative source such as https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/ https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/ then you get > We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive. But what does it mean to have “resources to … survive [and] thrive”? I would argue it implies a rethinking and rebuilding of policing based on the needs of the community, like GP claims. Another leftist might think it’s the anarchical approach. It’s vague, more or less intentionally
- snomad 5y ago
  Its a Motte and Bailey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_castle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_castle
  - helen___keller 5y ago

jimbob45 5y ago

No, abolishing the police means getting rid of the police. You don’t get to redefine words with this sort of Doublespeak. You wanted to capitalize on the thrill of saying something as bold as “Abolish the police” and then backpedal when it became convenient to take a more reasonable approach. It’s dishonest and it’s becoming a pattern after “Black Lives Matter” was called out for being similarly problematic. This isn’t limited to the left either. “Read my lips: no new taxes”, “Lock her up”, and “Build the wall” were likewise dishonest.

KarlKemp 5y ago
They might not get to “redefine words” but neither do you get to just change them to fit your point. The slogan used “defund” not ‘abolish”. “Defund” is somewhat ambiguous, indeed. That the initial slogan with “abolish” didn’t catch on actually helps to show that abolishment was not the intended meaning.
- jimbob45 5y ago
  The parent poster used "abolish" which is why I used it. Also, that's the phrase I've most seen in the media. I respect that you may have seen "defund" used more frequently. "Defund" isn't exactly ambiguous either. If you defund a police department, you've abolished it because police officers aren't going to work for free and the police buildings and vehicles will deteriorate from not being maintained. It is not possible to have a police force without funding. It's like if I said "we should fire bullets at JimBob", and then after that happened acting surprised that JimBob died. "Whoa whoa whoa I just said to fire bullets at him, not kill him!" really shouldn't be fooling anyone.
pc86 5y ago
HW absolutely meant "No new taxes" when he said it. That doesn't make it dishonest, but it does illustrate why boxing yourself into dogmatic ideological stances is a bad move from a policy standpoint.
dls2016 5y ago
I have just the slogan for you: "No Political Slogans!"

sschueller 5y ago

Sorry to say but who ever decided that the phrase "defund the police" is good or smart made a huge mistake. Or they may have deliberately picked a phrase that would upset and confuse a large number of people. It has split the political discord right down the middle and you will never get proper reform. The phrase that should have been used is "reform the police" because it would get almost every one aboard even the police themselves. Nothing is perfect in this world and almost every one can think of a way to improve something. This decade of attempt to reform the police most people didn't know or care about. This new movement could have brought it to light and get something done that everyone can agree on. Instead it turned into a left vs right shit show.

Forgeties79 5y ago
>it would get almost everyone on aboard even the police themselves
- sschueller 5y ago
  I think at this point you need a national change and force new regulations down from the top. But the movement has turned into a left vs right issue and there will be no change from this government stalemate.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
acid__ 5y ago
The phrase is ubiquitous not in spite of its controversial nature, but rather _because of_ it. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage...
- helen___keller 5y ago
  This is definitely one of the less-fun emergent phenomena of the internet and social media. Personally this is why I believe in building better social media bubbles, as much as most people disagree with the concept of a social media bubble I think it’s the only way to stay sane

boringg 5y ago

You had a lot of interesting pieces and then diluted the impact of your statement by tying in "defunding the police" which is an overly fraught almost meaningless phrase at this point since it means almost something completely different to every person who hears it - which loses all its value. I think most reasonable people can agree with your previous points that this is in fact a corrupted system. That was where you had the most power of your comment.

dang 5y ago

Ok, we've changed the URL to that from https://jalopnik.com/this-tiny-alabama-town-of-1-200-has-been-overrun-by-pol-1848389331 https://jalopnik.com/this-tiny-alabama-town-of-1-200-has-bee.... Thanks!

ipnon 5y ago
Doing Always Naturally Great