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Ask HN: Career change for elderly UK ex-convict?

I'm looking to get back into an IT career but I have lots of serious impediments. I'd like to ask HN readers for their views on my hopeless(?) situation. Am an ex-solicitor. I got out of UK jail a couple of years ago, I did some whitecollar stuff and I have a permanently un-unspent conviction for money-laundering. I'm over 60 with law & a science degree plus several post-grad qualifications. I'm currently doing a masters in data science for interest. I used to be a programmer back in the 80s and keep up with the topic (Erlang, OCaml, F#, Python Golang etc). I'll never pass jobs with DBS checks due to convictions. plus I guess I'll never get a job coding due to ageism (I'd wondered about COBOL but banks and government wouldn't take me), and I dont fancy doing all the BS prep needed for interviews anyway. But I like stats ML and data so I'd love to try for that. But the age and convictions are a serious problems. I don't imagine anyone on HN has anyone with my collection of problems but does anyone have any suggestions that might help?

TamDenholm 5y ago
I've been coding for 20 years (UK) and done mainly contracting primarily in the private sector and never once had to go through any checks. Also in 99% of gigs i've taken, the number 1 factor in getting hired is "can you do the job", thats it. While obviously the industry skews very young, i've worked with plenty techies over 50 that have been hired because they have experience, and quite simply, they can do the job. If you stick to the private sector, the convictions wont even come up unless you bring them up and i think it would be rare to come up against ageism, and if you do, then simply, you dont want to work for those companies anyway. Talk to some recruiters, tell them your skillset and see what they've got, I wouldnt bother mentioning the convictions because i personally dont see them as relevant (because whats relevant is, can you do the job), and they'll come back with options. If they talk about government or bank work, just say you'll pass on those and would rather work for a private company. I have the same preference purely due to my distaste for paperwork and beaurocracy, private companies are easier to deal with. I suggest trying to reframe your mindset to evidence based, rather than assumption based. Right now you're making a lot of assumptions that you wont be successful without having any evidence of such. You have a lot of valuable skills, go and assess the marketplace, in my opinion, you can be successful.
- cloogshicer 5y ago
  Great answer, can only confirm this, even for employment, not only contracting. Go for it!
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  To be fair, a lot of contracts have a clause to confirm that you don't have any unspent convictions. Granted, you can lie and indeed it probably will never be discovered but that's fraud.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    > fraud. Depends on locale. In the UK (IANAL) it wouldn't be _fraud_, but would be grounds to terminating the contract. But not criminal. Employer could potentially sue for damages, but there must be some damages for that.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      Thanks - this is a very good point and looks hopeful for the OP. To the OP I suggest to confirm this with a lawyer; if it's indeed not criminal and the worst outcome of a lie is termination and a civil lawsuit (which requires proving damages) it might be worth betting on it.
      - throwaway301010 5y ago
        The advantage of being an ex-lawyer is I do know this to be a criminal offence!
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      People describe anything and everything they don't agree with as 'fraud'.
    - wheels 5y ago
      And in Germany, it would be illegal to ask unless it was specifically relevant to the job – and courts have specifically decided that you can lie if you're asked and it's not relevant. The US tends to really overreach on that sort of thing, but it's not universal. It may even be that picking contracts in the EU would be useful.
sztanko 5y ago
I think your solicitor and money laundering background might be valuable in the modern world trying to digitize everything. - Have a look at LegalTech companies: https://www.maddyness.com/uk/2020/10/05/legaltech-12-startups-changing-the-archaic-law-systems-in-the-uk/ https://www.maddyness.com/uk/2020/10/05/legaltech-12-startup.... I guess there is a small but existing ecosystem and community in those communities and you could get there. - (Anti) Money laundering is a very hot topic in fintechs, and my experience is suggesting it is the most ML and AI intensive sector (trying to understand if a given transaction is related to money laundering is a non-supervised ML domain), there is a decent amount of graph algos involved and also the regulation is still quite archaic. I would say if positioned well, someone with backgrounds in legal and tech is a very valuable asset for any fintech. I also believe your conviction could be turned into your strong asset - you already have a unique and genuine story to tell. If you are ok into public speaking, you could get a speaker slot any any AML|Legal + tech related conference. I also believe going informal networking is more efficient then going through the formal recruitment process - this is where all your unique selling points would turn into disadvantages. Recruitment is designed to be scalable and you are an outlier there.
- MrDunham 5y ago
  this is a fantastic answer for several reasons and I’m commenting because an upvote alone just doesn’t do it justice. > I also believe your conviction could be turned into your strong asset - you already have a unique and genuine story to tell I so love this. It reminds me of Frank Abagnale, Jr., whose story is told in “Catch me if you can“. He went from convicted felon to savior of the banking industry and implemented a ton of solutions to the very things he exploited. > you could get a speaker slot any any AML|Legal + tech related conference. this is also a wonderful suggestion that could help you rapidly reframe your story. > I also believe going informal networking is more efficient then going through the formal recruitment process Can confirm this is crucial. I am the son of an executive recruiter who placed a ton of CFOs into midsize startups back in the dot-com days. When Mom was teaching me how to land jobs she suggested only using job boards and the like to get a feel for who is hiring and then networking in. Would be even more important with special circumstances like yours. People hire people, not resumes for the most part. I also know at least one company who specifically hires only ex-cons (in construction so this isn’t directly relevant to you) to help them get on their feet and keep them from repeat offending out of desperation. ----- The rest of this post is wonderful too but I don’t have much more to add to it. The nice thing about jobhunting is you only need one person to say yes. Reframing your problem into an asset and thinking about how you could uniquely help the industry could set you apart in a positive way.
_wldu 5y ago
Large corporate and government jobs are probably not available to you now. But, you can work for yourself as a consultant or contractor. There are pros and cons to being self-employed. Many people find it freeing, but maybe a bit less stable. Criminal convictions just limit your job options. They are not a life sentence. If you have paid your debt to society and follow the law now, you can still have a great life. And, I hope you do. Edit: I would also encourage you to never lie if asked about the conviction. If you lie, people will know and they won't trust you. Never lie about it.
jjgreen 5y ago
Are you in reach of London? If so, look at start-ups in London, there's a lot of demand for experienced devs, a lot, and while you might find ageism in some of them, in many others being an outlier or oddball is a positive advantage, really depends on the culture of the particular place. I speak as an old-git senior dev working in start-ups in London (and really rather enjoying it).
- EveYoung 5y ago
  I fully agree, I don't think many London companies can afford to reject good candidates only because of age. Recently, I had the exact opposite experience, where an older candidate turned down an offer because they didn't want to report to a significantly younger manager.
taubek 5y ago
Just one thing, regarding your age: your age brings wisdom to the table. Things that we have seen, encountered, overcome can never be replaced or thought by any kind of diploma. Most of my coworkers are 15-20 years younger than me. I'm the oldest one in the company and I don't feel discriminated.
throwaway245345 5y ago
You don't even need to mention this stuff, and if you're not an employee I think the chances of being compelled to divulge it are low. Especially if you're freelancing. Secondly, if you are an employee, I think you can develop a good narrative to explain where you came from, where you are today, and how you've changed (etc), and how serious you are about putting it behind you. You could even suggest some initial 'concessions' like a longer probation period for you, to prove your commitment and ally their potential concerns.
jimmyed 5y ago
Go to India and work as a contractor. You'll be considered a huge deal due to your age and they won't know anything about your convictions.
scotty79 5y ago
Move to another country. You conviction history probably won't follow you there.
- rossdavidh 5y ago
  Information flows across borders ever-more easily, so even if that were true today (and I'm not so sure about that), it might not be tomorrow.
robinduckett 5y ago
I've been a contractor in the UK for a good few years, and never had to have a DBS check until I got a job that was primarily fixated in the finance industry. This includes when I have previously worked for a few different e-commerce sector clients. Data science is particularly used in Marketing companies, and I doubt they'll care about your previous convictions.
christophilus 5y ago
Record: I'm not hiring now, but if I was, I wouldn't necessarily hold any of this against you. Heck, I wouldn't even know about it, since we don't do any kind of criminal screening. The main concern I'd have is whether or not you can do your job. If I did know about your past, I'd want to be sure that you would be clean moving forward. I think (and hope!) you overestimate the negative impact on your career. Ageism: the main problem with hiring older people is that they are expensive relative to new grads. The other problem is that they are often perceived as being inflexible and lacking desire / drive. Expense: It's a trade-off. Sometimes, you need the expertise, and it's worth the extra $$$. Sometimes, not. But in my opinion, it's almost always worth paying up (within reason) for experience. I tend to err on the side of reverse ageism, which is unfortunate for junior engineers who interview with me. Drive: This perception is a false one, but it is pervasive in HR departments from what I've seen. If you can get through HR to the actual technical interview phase, I don't think this will hold you back, as you're clearly engaged and interested.
- captaincaveman 5y ago
throway453sde 5y ago
When it comes to ageism Work From Home certainly helps. All interviews are online and i wear wig during interviews and thankfully my skin is not wrinkled so much. Also with the current progress in AI i am betting on wrinkle free video masks softwares in the near future. I will never go back to full time office jobs.
xaxaxb 5y ago
Sir, salute your effort. I'm no expert but have you thought about freelancing? Also you can start on Twitch if you haven't already. You can practice your skills there and meet and connect with people.
judgemehiring 5y ago
I am the founder & CEO of Judge.me and we're hiring senior software engineers. No issue with your background as long as it has nothing violent in it. Please see careers.judge.me if interested in working for us.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Hi are you Peter-jan or Linh?
AlwaysRock 5y ago
You can work via an contracting/recruiting agency very likely. Many of them dont do background checks and companies assume that they do. You probably have skills that would be relevant. You would just need to find the right one.
darrenwestall 5y ago
I’d hire you - we all make mistakes. Contact info in my profile if you fancy chatting more.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Awesome! Looked at what you do. Will be in touch. Thanks for being generous.
memossy 5y ago
You should go web3. There are incredibly few lawyers who know anything about crypto and huge demand. You can also join DAOs etc and earn significant amounts of money for your effort versus who you are. If you want to do web3 code go to https://buildspace.so/ https://buildspace.so/ and you'll be in in a few months max. I'm happy to have a chat about some of our web3 stuff too, semantic [at] gmail
numerik_meister 5y ago
Random idea, have you tried applying at a university? Sometimes big research groups have additional employees (not Ph.ds or postdocs) who just assist in software development. Due to the low salaries they are always desperate for hiring. Also there are a lot of older employees in the IT departments at universities, so maybe ageism would be less of an issue. Not sure how they deal with ex-convicts.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Unis are more open to inclusive hiring from what I hear so that may be worth exploring, but they also have safeguarding issues as they have young people there - though as a money launderer not a kiddy-fiddler I'm not sure how worried they be, unless they'd worry about moral corruption!
  - hogrider 5y ago
    On the other hand, in academia you are nuch more likely to find the moral relativistic nihilists that wouldn't care a past white collar crime conviction.
    - throwaway301010 5y ago
      Most nihilist would be likely to say "stuff it, have the job, I don't care, it's all pointless."
- milliams 5y ago
  We post these kinds of jobs on the Society of Research Software Engineering website at https://society-rse.org/careers/vacancies/ https://society-rse.org/careers/vacancies/ I can't speak for how any of their HR departments would treat your case though.
  - throwaway301010 5y ago
    Great resource - thanks very much - I was looking at find just this type of thing, also I found https://www.jobs.ac.uk/ https://www.jobs.ac.uk/
tpoacher 5y ago
Sorry to hear about your situation. It really sucks. I don't have a specific answer to your question, but a couple of stray thoughts: 1. You could attempt to find an open source project of interest to you, and start contributing, make yourself part of the community, make some friends so to speak. If/when you later confide your secret, you're already known and proven yourself to the community, and will probably be received in a much more positive light. Not sure where that leads you, but a network is always useful. Maybe you can raise money and get paid to maintain that software. Maybe your community will endorse you to your new employers. 2. You are more likely to be employed in projects that involve the penal system, in which case your handicap turns itself on its head, and becomes "insider experience". I've seen many startups and charities relating to this. Perhaps there's an ML project out there in this topic that would greatly benefit from your insight.
- tpoacher 5y ago
  In case this is of further interest, the big issue mentioned two social enterprises that are ex-convict themed and employ ex-convicts. Working chance, and The Skill Mill
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Yes, penal system rehabilitation projects is good suggestion. People do that, and it may be possible to do a UK cons-to-coders ML project (there was one in the US). I've seen people on HN cast doubts on OS projects as a portfolio approach but it's worth contemplating.
- talolard 5y ago
  Keeping with the theme of insider experience, you might want to reach out for companies doing auditing, fraud detection etc. A domain expert who knows ML is a hot find
sol_invictus 5y ago
I would set up my own shop under a limited company and try to land programming gigs. You can sidestep most personal checks that way.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  In my experience most contracts require you to confirm that the director and/or representative doesn't have any unspent convictions. It's of course up to him whether he wants to lie and deal with potential consequences. In practice there are very little checks though.
  - oakesm9 5y ago
    I'm a freelancer/contracter in the UK working through my own limited company. Most of the time I try to use my own contract, but if clients insist on using their own, I will sometimes use them. I've gone through a few of those where the client supplied the contract and only two out of maybe a dozen had any caluse related to convictions (from a quick search of them). One was a clause about people working on the project being: > fit and proper persons for the tasks assigned to them, and in particular have no unspent criminal convictions for any offence involving dishonesty or computer crime Another had a clause about terminating the contract early if the contractor is: > being convicted of any criminal offence other than a minor driving offence under the Road Traffic Acts None of the others I looked at had anything else like that. I don't think any convictions would be a major barrier for OP if they are working with typical private sector companies. As other have said, it's likely any public sector work or specific industires such as education, defenece, or finance might have more checks in place.
- s_dev 5y ago
  Many convicted white collar criminals are barred from being a director of any company. Using a company for money laundering would be a good basic example.
opless 5y ago
I'd say forget about getting "a job" and write your own apps, or do consultancy work where clients engage your company - not you. Though I'd check about you being able to be a company director.
- joshvm 5y ago
  The law is a little vague. It says that someone convicted of money laundering may be disqualified for acting as a company director (ish). I assume that would be part of sentencing, or it may be a decision made by Companies House (or whoever vets that). Certainly ex-prisoners can start business in general. A bigger issue may be things that require credit checks, like business loans, bank accounts, insurance, etc. Some good advice here: https://unlock.org.uk/advice/things-think-becoming-self-employed/ https://unlock.org.uk/advice/things-think-becoming-self-empl...
  - throwaway301010 5y ago
    You'd only be disbarred from being a company director if the court ordered it or if Companies House applied to the court to disbar you. Max 15 years disbarment.
  - opless 5y ago
    That indeed is a good link. If you’re setting yourself up in a consultancy, you don’t usually need start up capital and hence no loans required. Bank accounts and insurance are a requirement however!
aliswe 5y ago
Can you email me? Check my profile and add an "a" between the dots in my email. I don't have a big gig right now but can tell you more and present myself.
the-dude 5y ago
I think it US centric, but with the recent remote trend, you'll never know : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14911467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14911467 ( Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records ) In NL, banks have been expanding their anti-fraud division for years, maybe this would be a good fit?
- sol_invictus 5y ago
  Banks won't touch this guy with a ten-foot pole. I'm not saying it's right at all, but big banks are among the lowest of low in terms of ethics and integrity.
nicoburns 5y ago
> I guess I'll never get a job coding due to ageism I wouldn't assume that. Demand for coders with experience is through the roof at the moment, and from what I can tell the ageism issue is less severe in the UK than it is in the US. I can see your conviction being an issue for data science jobs as such a job inherently requires trusting you to have access to the data. But perhaps you could find a job that's working on public datasets? Perhaps it would be worth considering trying to find a government / civil service job? They will have lots of public data, and probably have good non-discrimination policies too.
- mkdirp 5y ago
  > > I guess I'll never get a job coding due to ageism > I wouldn't assume that. I can't add a lot to this discussion, but my colleague, who is in his 50s, got hired around the same time as me here in the UK.
- shubb 5y ago
  My experience of UK government and government contractor jobs is that they follow a recruitment standard where they are much more likely to check convictions. Many need some low level security clearance too which would be a problem. On the other hand for more generic startup jobs in the UK, you might not even be asked about criminal history except "so what is this period on your CV", and they are much less likely to care as long as you tell a good story about why it won't happen again. I'd lean towards smaller companies as far from government and finance as possible...
zepolen 5y ago
Ironic that the easily available jobs for you would be illegal underground ones.
alejolp 5y ago
I worked fro the UK to the US. Did not have to do any DBS. The most hassle has been taxes and HMRC.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
danielrpa 5y ago
Is finding work for ex-convicts with coding skills a startup opportunity? Perhaps doing coding jobs for small businesses?
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  I happen to know about job training for incarcerated folks through a family member and also working with an adult basic education program. At least in the USA, the number of incarcerated people who happen to have coding skills of any level is going to be small, like very small. The vast, vast majority of incarcerated people need basic skills training to even be able to look for a job. Functional illiteracy is high, most have at best a grade-school level of reading/writing and math skills. There are many reasons why folks end up in jail, typically for each person a multitude of things went sideways early in life. One of the most common of these is a completely derailed education. It's never too late of course, and most people getting out of jail are still in their 20's and 30's. They're hungry for legit work, so yeah, there's enormous untapped potential. The organizations working in this space get government and private funding but are always on the verge of vaporizing. They are, AFAIK, non-profits with very strong social-work, basic-education, traditional vo-tech focus (because that's what their clients need most).
  - throwaway301010 5y ago
    This 100%. Basic literacy & numeracy is stunningly low in UK prisons & improving basic education has been shown to improve reoffending rates greatly, in policy terms it ought to be a no-brainer but as you say the NGOs & charities in this space are starved of cash, mental health & addiction charities would slash offending rates, - but the government throws hundreds of millions of £ at contractors like Serco & G4S who can afford to lobby hard & donate to party funds, but who squander it.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Seems like the total addressable market would be far too small to make for an interesting startup.
samuel 5y ago
Probably not what you want, but webdev skills are more marketable for freelancing, which seems your better chance of avoiding deep scrutiny. Best of luck.
kidgorgeous 5y ago
ir35 5y ago
The pandemic has worked in your favour. I’ve got a >£500/day contract job at the moment with no background check, never met, they don’t know my age. Start your own company (<£20 registration fee) then find outside IR35 contracts via LinkedIn recruiters: find a role that uses the intersection of your skills + experience — i.e: a data science contract with a law-adjacent firm. Very quick and easy, if you have skills then you’d have a job before the week is out. Don’t reject yourself before anyone else has the chance to: the bar for these jobs is very, very low.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  >the bar for these jobs is very, very low. ideal :)
sigmaprimus 5y ago
I'm confused. You say that you're an ex-solicitor that is over 60 and served time for some "White Collar Stuff" as well as being convicted for money-laundering and you just got out of jail two years ago? What exactly causes someone seemingly so successful to fall down so far? Greed? Drugs? Illness? As far as the age situation goes, depending on how much over 60 you are...That could mean 80 and I wouldn't normally think that but well...but in any case if you are healthy you probably have another 10-15 good years ahead of you. If you are currently working on completing a masters degree for interest sake, I assume this means you have a means of support in place and are not supporting any dependents. I would think that looking into charitable organizations may be a good fit for someone with your past who is wanting to give back to society. I would not be looking for a career as I think unfortunately that ship has sailed and possibly sunken after crashing into the penitentiary's rocks. Working or volunteering for a charity might make up for some of the "White Collar Stuff" in the grand scale of things (Especially if that "stuff" resulted in putting Widows and Orphans into the Poorhouse/Workhouse).
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  Here, you're supposed to see convicts solely as victims. I noticed, too, that he's specific about courses he's taking, but vague about the crimes -- and detect no remorse whatsoever. What he does describe sounds like he does indeed want to work, and I hope he finds an employer, somewhere.
  - sigmaprimus 5y ago
    I was not trying to be mean or negative. I am aware that HN is not the place for such things. My question and comment was sincere, normally around now when the bullies pound my comment to the bottom of the thread I would rethink it but not this time.
    - codingdave 5y ago
      > unfortunately that ship has sailed and possibly sunken after crashing into the penitentiary's rocks. That is the comment that sounds unjustifiably mean and negative. I'm surprised you are doubling down on it.
bennysomething 5y ago
A friend of mine had a class a drugs possession conviction that was unspent at the time he was applying for jobs as a graduate. He just lied on the form about criminal records. Small firms don't bother with checks. Obviously this doesn't apply to financial institutions etc who do check. He's still employed now and has had a fairly decent career.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  If I was an employer considering to hire an ex-convict who was jailed for fraud, my main worry would be that they would pull some stupid shit again. Especially with code there seem to be many opportunities (adding backdoors, access to sensitive databases...). Lying in the application process would do little to alleviate that worry. Sure the, employer would have to find out first. But is it really the first thing an ex-convict looking for a job should do?
  - Closi 5y ago
    > is it really the first thing an ex-convict looking for a job should do? Well the first part of your post describes why that might be necessary (i.e. you imply you would be unlikely to hire an ex-convict because they might do 'stupid shit', while OP is trying to find a job to get his feet back on the ground). Nobody wants to lie, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to sort your life out.
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      Sure if nothing else works, but sorting your life out by doing the same thing that landed you in prison to begin with really strikes me as a bad idea. It's maybe sort of a fundamental attitude, either you are honest or not. Also this "I had no other choice" rationale also seems like a risk factor for slipping into crime again.
    - throwaway301010 5y ago
      Pragmatically, I'd not be prepared to lie because it is a criminal offence, fraud, and I doubt a court would look kindly on a repeat offence. But I tend to agree: "you gotta do what you gotta do", in my case feed the kids.
ggeorgovassilis 5y ago
How's your Perl?
arethuza 5y ago
There seem to be quite a few employers in the UK that encourage applications from people with convictions: https://www.ex-seed.co.uk/recommended-companies.html https://www.ex-seed.co.uk/recommended-companies.html Some of them are pretty big (e.g. Tesco) so I'd maybe try scanning their job pages and see if any of them have opening for entry level data scientists?
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Good list! Thanks. I'll run through those. As you say, some big names.
AlexMuir 5y ago
Hi, interesting post. I don't think ageism is an issue - if you can get work done (and show it), you'll be hired. I'd suggest diving into a problem that interests you. I'm playing around with Companies House and Land Registry data at the moment. That's going to be an area you are well familiar with. Perhaps get in touch with some of the people working on OpenData stuff - Anna Powell-Smith might know someone who needs a data wrangler - https://twitter.com/darkgreener https://twitter.com/darkgreener I have a friend in a somewhat similar position - a highly educated, disbarred UK lawyer who did few years in prison. Drop me an email if you want me to put you in touch - me@alexmuir.com
adabaed 5y ago
Well, I'm not in your situation, only you know what is the "right" thing to do. If you don't feel comfortable working with children in their 20s and 30s, you can always try starting a business or working as a freelancer. Here is a good starting point. https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/best-freelance-websites https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/best-freelance-websites Keep in mind that these types of websites always keep a relevant part of your money. Think of them as a Google Add investment. Try to create your own brand and make it clear that you have a website where they can contact you in the future. Best of luck!
buro9 5y ago
You likely won't be able to get work with any firm that has customers in the financial, military, and medical spaces. This rules out a lot of sectors common to the UK and major cities. No hosting companies, Cloud vendors, service/consulting companies of reasonable size, etc. However there are large industries in the UK that will offer a solid job, the ones that spring to mind are academia and the charity sector. These industries aren't the top paying, and that's exactly why these jobs aren't being fought over. Additionally as you'll not come into direct contact with vulnerable people or children, DBS checks are unlikely to apply and the sector based restrictions like those in the financial industry are not present. The work in these industries also isn't the most challenging for coding, the challenge is typically it not being funded well enough and having to find cheap and pragmatic solutions you can maintain. In the charitable sector you really need to know Drupal and PHP... and then a mix of how to glue things together, run IT systems, etc. In academia it can be a real mix of work, from IT services, through to website and email services, all the way up to "PhD student knows what they want to run on a supercomputer but doesn't know how to get it to run efficiently on this (slightly older) supercomputer".
- dmw_ng 5y ago
  > You likely won't be able to get work with any firm that has customers in the financial, military, and medical spaces. This rules out a lot of sectors common to the UK and major cities. No hosting companies, Cloud vendors, service/consulting companies of reasonable size, etc. What is this based on? I've had 2 checks in 19 years of working privately, including contracting for 15 of those, many of which were outside the UK. Nobody in the chain, not HR, hiring managers or recruiters are incentivized to examine a candidate deeply once they've been accepted for a role, and for contracting HR rarely even enters the picture. In both cases where a check was carried out, it was for a company I could not recommend working for regardless of income. One of these resulted in the only time I have needed a solicitor to ensure timely payments. From this angle failing DBS sounds like it might be a blessing in disguise for OP
  - richardwhiuk 5y ago
    It's really trivial for an employer to do, and it's required by compliance regulations.
shmatt 5y ago
You write most importantly about ageism and then by the way about “dont fancy doing all the BS prep needed for interviews anyway” I’ve worked with plenty of non management engineers in your age group in corporate America. Absolutely none of them got their job by trying to skip what the rest of us have to do to interview. There’s your problem
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Pointless tech interviews are a well rehearsed topic on HN and I referred to that. I don't mind prepping for interviews but not spending 6 months doing leetcode exercises about weird trees & stuff I'll never implement.
pengwing 5y ago
Freelance software development and use an AI generated photo of a person in their mid 30s.
sjg007 5y ago
In the movies you’d be the guy who gets hired by MI5 to route out criminals syndicates etc…
bartread 5y ago
I'm hiring software engineers now. I've enquired with our HR team as to whether your convictions are likely to disqualify you because I've never encountered this situation before. I'm the CTO at Savanta: https://savanta.com/ https://savanta.com/. My email is ${myfirstname}.${mylastname} (all lowercase) at the company's domain. My first name is Bart. If you're interested please drop me a line and, assuming there's a possibility of us hiring you, we can have a chat - either way I will certainly let you know. Your age is not important and, in fact, may even be an advantage for many roles. I've worked with plenty of older people and value their experience. As long as you're based in the UK your precise location is also unimportant as our software engineering roles can mostly be fully remote. EDIT: I've heard back from our head of HR. We review all such situations on a case by case basis so you're not by default barred from employment with us. Money laundering might ring a few alarm bells if you were looking for a job in our finance team but does not pose any inherent issue with our technology team. Therefore, if you are interested in having a conversation, please do get in touch. Either way I wish you the best with finding a role!
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  Thanks so much for that, Bart! Never met you, but it sounds like you are a decent sort. In some cases, being an ex-con can actually be an advantage. I know quite a few, and some of them are amazingly clever folks (some are total dumbasses, too). Seeing what Savanta does, it might be a great idea to consider a non-standard (but also highly educated, and highly experienced) content expert. Good luck to everyone.
  - deleted 5y ago
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- nefitty 5y ago
  Thanks for inspiring some hope in me Bart. I think today will be a good day.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  That's really awesome. So nice to see someone willing to at least give a man a shot! Will be in touch.
lnxg33k1 5y ago
Can you get work permit for other European countries? There are more cultures that have different approach to ex-con than evangelicals, I'd try with some of that if you can
johnspiralnew 5y ago
Setup a Linkedin profile, be open about your conviction it will reduce your long term stress once you land a job. Get involved answering tech questions on either Linkedin or Stack Exchange.... this will give your technical prowess authenticity. If you still can't get a job consider volunteering as a way to get a reference, again be open about your conviction.
chriotte 5y ago
I did many interviews in my previous workplace, and we never cared about age when recruiting. My colleagues were between 20-something and up to retirement age (I'm now in my late twenties). The most exciting and valuable people I've worked with were the latter. The more senior people always brought a ton of knowledge to the table and were often able to draw parallels between the stuff we were solving now with things they had already solved 20 or 30 years ago. I would not worry about your age, and your troublesome past adds some spice and a different perspective to life, and I'm sure most companies will embrace your talent. Feel free to send me a note on chris *at** dataespresso *dot** com, and I can share with you some info about my previous employer and possibly make an introduction. They have offices all over the UK, and I think you'd enjoy working there.
alexthenotgreat 5y ago
You don't even need to mention this stuff, and if you're not an employee I think the chances of being compelled to divulge it are low. Especially if you're freelancing. Secondly, if you are an employee, I think you can develop a good narrative to explain where you came from, where you are today, and how you've changed (etc), and how serious you are about putting it behind you. You could even suggest some initial 'concessions' like a longer probation period for you, to prove your commitment and ally their potential concerns.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Good suggestions, especially probation periods.
rossdavidh 5y ago
The smaller the organization, the more leeway they have to decide on cases like yours. Also, the less attached they are likely to be to the idea of hiring a 21-year old who will be more easily intimidated by their first boss, etc. Consider inquiring with smaller firms who need IT help. They value the independence of an older coder more, since there is not a large IT team (you might be alone), and they have less bureaucracy. Obviously, in certain industries there will be laws regarding who gets access to data that they don't have the ability to change, but in manufacturing for instance, or retail, this is unlikely the case.
lloydjones 5y ago
You don't even need to mention this stuff, and if you're not an employee I think the chances of being compelled to divulge it are low. Especially if you're freelancing. Secondly, if you are an employee, I think you can develop a good narrative to explain where you came from, where you are today, and how you've changed (etc), and how serious you are about putting it behind you. You could even suggest some initial 'concessions' like a longer probation period for you, to prove your commitment and ally their potential concerns.
catbuttes 5y ago
Seconding the suggestions that you may be able to turn your history into an asset in the right hands. It might be worth taking a look at some of the IT suppliers for the prison system. Unilink are one I am aware of - they do self serve kiosks that are in use in a number of prisons in the UK for stuff like canteen orders and visit booking. They look to be recruiting at the moment as well, so getting in touch can't hurt! https://www.unilink.com/vacancies/ https://www.unilink.com/vacancies/
xtracto 5y ago
Hey.. ill just say look at kevin mitnick, his history and his current company (KnowBe4): he is an exconvict criminal hacker that nowadays gives security talks and has this great security company. I'm not in the uk but here in Mexico most finTechs must adhere to a though AML regulations. In a past startup, my team had to implement an AML system to catch high risk transactions, flag them and eventually report them. Maybe not as a full time employee, but you may be hirable as an expert consultant, with strong tech knowledge . Best of luck!!
rsyring 5y ago
Look at getting involved in Salesforce. It's a cert driven technology and the cert process is actually helpful if you take the time to learn. Start with a Salesforce Administrator cert (few months to get it) and go from there. In the US, these jobs are starting in the $80K range and you can easily find remote and part time positions, maybe as a contractor for a smaller company where the background check won't come up.
gm3dmo 5y ago
> But I like stats ML and data so I'd love to try for that. Building some reputation on an ML/AI/Data site like Kaggle might be helpful to get noticed. https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/timpson-foundation/ex-offenders/ https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/timpson-foundation/ex-offend... Timpson's have a very strong reputation for offerening employment to marginalized groups. I'm sure they have a back office operation that drives the shoe repair and key cutting shops so they may be worth investigating.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Timpsons are indeed well known for this and while in open prison a number of men went out everyday to work in their shops.
tootie 5y ago
Become a product expert. Salesforce admins are in huge demand. SAP is another.
akamaka 5y ago
Cryptocurrency startups! Many of the company founders in this sector are skeptical of the current system of financial regulation. Tell them about your conviction up front. I’d bet many of them would be fascinated to hear your story.
unixhero 5y ago
If any humor any allowed here, a manager of small would company would probably behave like this https://youtu.be/OYEMcX8dj5M https://youtu.be/OYEMcX8dj5M
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Well that was painful to watch!
mellavora 5y ago
Doesn't Techstars have a program which specifically trains people to code while they are still in jail, and then helps them find work afterwards? You could get in touch with the people who run that program, they could certainly provide leads. Which is a great idea; because by giving someone a viable non-criminal way to make a living, they are under much less pressure to resort to non-legally sanctioned employment after release, i.e. after they have PAID their debt to society (assuming that they were actually guilty, and guilty of something which would incur a debt to society... neither of which is necessarily true for any given prisoner).
kingcharles 5y ago
As a coder who just got out of jail himself, I was never asked for a background check for any development job in the UK. Maybe if you were going for a military/intelligence contractor position, but otherwise, I've never even heard of a British firm doing a criminal background check. Just my 2 pennies.
captaincaveman 5y ago
Criminal record only a problem for the subset of businesses that care/check about that sort of thing, which is less than what others are saying (25 years experience in UK). Over 60 and a junior programmer isn't easy, your salary expectations are possibly higher and your willingness to grind through problems is also probably lower, I know both of those would be the case for me, and mean no offence. So yes to be honest it will be a bit harder for you, however, its a job seekers market at present and with perseverance I don't doubt you'll find a job, and without that same grit you'd unlikely to last as professional engineer today anyways. Most companies don't do all that leetcode stuff in UK, interviewing is still a pain though.
- gnu8 5y ago
  > willingness to grind through problems is also probably lower Maybe I misunderstand what you’re saying here but I don’t think this is fair. An older worker should know to put the problem down at 5 PM and walk away from it, but that doesn’t mean they’re unwilling to work on a problem they haven’t solved before. At least, I hope some day when I’m an elderly ex convict that I will still be able and willing to solve new problems.
  - captaincaveman 5y ago
    In my experience (not 60 but I don't see it getting better), is when learning some arbitrary tech you have to bump your head on a lot of tedious things, there is so much to learn it takes a lot of effort to get to that eureka point. With age I am less inclined to dedicate hours to this, the outcome doesn't feel worth the effort anymore, the knowledge soon becomes redundant as the new shiny comes along. Perhaps this due to experience rather than age to be fair. Also as a junior engineer, its not that the problem your trying to crack is likely to be some business problem, most likely some stupid bug in your code.
hardlianotion 5y ago
No problems with age. Hope to be hiring fairly soon - optimisation and statistics - happy to chat.
atlgator 5y ago
You could try freelance projects on upwork or fiverr. It will help fill out your resume and put food on the table while you're looking for a longer term position. If you get enough experience and/or develop the relationships you could start your own contracting company. Target small or medium sized businesses that may not check into you as an individual (versus the company).
speedbird 5y ago
Try NICE Actimize and some of their competition. Financial crime detection software for financial service organisations. They need to read financial regulations from FCA / EU, SEC etc like MIFID 2 and turn them into pattern detection software. Your data science interest would also be very relevant there.
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ellen364 5y ago
Lots of good advice in this thread. One thing I didn’t see anyone mention is how to explain the gap in your CV. Anecdotally, hiring committees are often sceptical about career gaps. The post says you got out of prison a couple of years ago. That’s recent enough that you probably can’t drop it off the end. (As people tend do for jobs that were decades ago.) I can think of two broad options. (1) Leave the gap as a gap. Accept that some companies will filter you out and many will ask about the gap at interview. You could prepare a good way to explain when asked and the story might do you favours. But springing a big surprise in an interview can go poorly. (2) Include prison as an entry in your CV. Solves the gap problem and the “springing a surprise at interview” problem. Probably increases the “getting filtered out” problem, maybe by a lot. But it might also help you quickly discover which companies are a good fit. Best of luck.
- dorkwood 5y ago
  Are gaps really that much of an issue? What about freelancers, for example? Are they filtered out?
  - aix1 5y ago
    I guess we don't know how long of a gap we're talking about in the OP's case.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    > Are gaps really that much of an issue? What about freelancers, for example? Are they filtered out? Speaking as someone who alternated between freelancing and full time employment, no. Simply include the period as another job. You can list the position as 'Freelance Web Developer' or whatever is appropriate, or even 'Sole Proprietor, CompanyName' if you actually used a DBA. Then, as per usual, list notable highlights of problems solved for customers, tech used, responsibilities & regular duties. It may even be useful to list some accomplishments AS an independent business person (marketing campaigns run to acquire customers, customer growth or churn, NPS, niches identified, MVPs built, subcontractors managed, etc.), for the period, depending on the nature of the position you're applying for. Lots of companies are pleased to get applicants that have a bigger picture of making a business work, and you might appreciate being able to identify (and eliminate from consideration) the other companies that are just looking for cogs to slot into their machine.
blunte 5y ago
One of my clients did 10 years for two charges which actually weren't true (don't mess with Texas, or at least not the people who help get officials elected!) What we found was that many people do not care if you've been in prison, especially if you almost use that as a badge of honor. If you try to suppress it, it is used as a negative. Sure there will be people who will judge any ex-con immediately and not want to work with them, but there are also people who will judge any group (women, minorities, etc.). So the prison time can be used to your advantage with many audiences. Resilience. Social pennance. Triumph over injustice. Whatever. Also, EVERY human worth working with understands that we all make mistakes. Some of them just cost us a lot more... Most jobs are found by networking, regardless of the industry or skillset. So the biggest question is, what would you really like to do? I personally would argue against software development, just because I wish I had chosen something else in my life; but instead it has been the career that locks me in because it makes more money than other undeveloped skills I might have had. This might be a strange suggestion, but perhaps there's something about your mistake you made some time ago which you learned from, and which you can use to provide a value to clients. Not saying this is the case (really), but if you were intentionally trying to shuffle money illegally and got caught, maybe you have advice for other people who are doing things that might get them in trouble. Especially with your technical interest, you might be able to help them avoid doing something stupid or even steer them away from trying. Or maybe you know better how to help them do it without getting caught. I'm not judging here, because some of the biggest global banks have made fortunes intentionally laundering money. I'm not aware of any of them being in jail... More specifically, especially at your age, I would try to discover you passion. Then go with that. Yes we need money to live, but you can also move to cheaper places (and network/work via the internet).
- robocat 5y ago
  > I would try to discover you passion. Then go with that. Easy to say, hard to do. I liked this idea: """ One approach I recommend for uncovering desires involves taking the time to listen to the most deeply fulfilling experiences of your colleagues’ (or partners’, or friends’, or classmates’) lives, and sharing your own with them. The more we understand one another’s stories of meaningful achievement, the more effectively we understand how to work with each other: what moves and motivates others, what gives them satisfaction in their work. It seems simple, but nobody does it. Ask yourself: How many people do you work with who could name even one of your most meaningful achievements and explain why it was so meaningful to you? A motivational drive is a specific and enduring behavioral energy that has oriented you throughout your life to achieve a distinct pattern of results. You may be fundamentally motivated, for instance, to bring control, to evoke recognition, or to overcome obstacles. Because most of us have never thought seriously about the nature of our motivation, we lack the language to be able to describe our core motivational drives with much precision. This exercise gives us that ability. Core motivational drives are enduring, irresistible, and insatiable. They are probably explanatory of much of your behavior since the time you were a child. Think of them as your motivational energy—the reason you consistently gravitate toward certain types of projects (team versus individual, goal-oriented versus ideation) and activities (sports, arts, theater, forms of fitness) and not others. There are patterns in your motivation. If you can put your finger on what specifically they are, then you will have taken a major step toward understanding your thick desires. The best way to uncover the patterns is by sharing stories. Stories about times in your life when you took an action that ended up being deeply fulfilling. Today it’s one of the first questions that I ask in any job interview because it helps cut through the thin stuff and goes straight to the essence of the person. “Tell me about a time in your life when you did something well and it brought you a sense of fulfillment,” I ask. I have seen this simple question transform interactions between individuals and entire communities. When stories are shared between two people who know how to listen well, the experience transports both the storyteller and the listener to a time when desire led to extraordinarily fulfillment. That’s why sharing those stories is a joyful experience. A Fulfillment Story, as I call it, has three essential elements: 1 It’s an action. You took some concrete action and you were the main protagonist, as opposed to passively taking in an experience. As life-changing as a Springsteen concert at the Stone Pony might have been for you, it’s not a Fulfillment Story. It might be for Bruce, but not for you. Dedicating yourself to learning everything about an artist and their work, on the other hand, could be. 2 You believe you did well. You did it with excellence, you did it well—by your own estimation, and nobody else’s. You are looking for an achievement that matters to you. If you grilled what you think is a perfect rib-eye steak the other night, then you did something well and achieved something. Don’t worry about how big or small the achievement might seem to anyone else. 3 It brought you a sense of fulfillment. Your action brought you a deep sense of fulfillment, maybe even joy. Not the fleeting, temporary kind, like an endorphin rush. Fulfillment: you woke up the next morning and felt a sense of satisfaction about it. You still do. Just thinking about it brings some of it back. Such moments of profound meaning and satisfaction matter. They reveal something critical about who you are. Knowing something about the interior life of a person is necessary to understand why they do what they do and what it means to them. Fulfillment Stories get at the heart of action by looking at it from the inside out. Fulfillment Stories ask, “But why did that action mean so much to you?” The question and answer kick off a positive mimetic cycle. You tell one of your Fulfillment Stories. I listen with empathy to what you are telling me and reflect back to you what I heard and saw and felt in your story. Then you do the same for me. Empathy imitates empathy, heart speaks to heart. Every time I told a Fulfillment Story, another rose to the surface. As I dove deeper into my past, I uncovered stories I hadn’t thought about in a long time. Not only that—I hadn’t even recognized them as stories of fulfilling action at the time. Most people are rarely, if ever, asked to tell the stories of their deeply fulfilling achievements. """ Excerpt from the book Wanting by Luke Burgis. I bought it because the book’s topic was “Human desire is mimetic – we imitate what other people want”, which is a very powerful idea. Unfortunately I felt the book was trashy American self help author ego stroking, but the section above stood out to me.
anonymousiam 5y ago
The problem is the system. A jail term is supposed to be the full "payment" of your "debt to society", but once you have a conviction on your record, you are doomed, regardless of whether or not you are at risk of recidivism. https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2015/12/10/former-inmates-still-pay-for-crimes-after-they-pay-debt-to-society/ https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2015/12/10/former-inmates-sti...
arzel 5y ago
What are your contact details? We are hiring.
ed_elliott_asc 5y ago
Unless you want to work in finance/insurance/schools or something similar you won’t be asked to do a DBS - I’ve not been asked if I have any convictions for any role that wasn’t in finance. There is a massive shortage of people now in data (engineering/scientists/etc) Go contracting, they are much easier to get and once you have a couple under your belt it gets much easier.
238475235243 5y ago
Start a Ltd company and use that to find work on Upwork.
Cullinet 5y ago
Just adding at the end, I reacted immediately to the matter of principle that my company would never take a principled or fundamental view of excluding you from consideration from employment, and in trying to make it as clear as possible, everything else fell from my conscious consideration - for the simple reason that you have a very strong fit indeed with the requirements that we have for the future. Now I have re read your post, please let me try both to play down our commercial potential at the same time as bidding you by all means do drop me a line. I can't discuss openly what needs to happen in our position, but on the face of it, if all goes well then I would probably be disappointed if we never found out what the possibilities may be. Whatever happens, very best wishes from me.
hunglee2 5y ago
Try Timpsons - the cobblers. They have a standing policy that 10% of their employee base must come from the formerly incarcerated. Most of these workers will be working in the shops, actually repairing the shoes, but I think the policy is across the business for roles in head office should be part of this commitment I think with your legal skills you have a shot at the legal department, with programming definitely a shot in IT department. Check out the careers page - one front page, it mentions ex-offenders. Give it a shot. Also, I've reached out to James Timpson, to see if he knows of any other UK employers who have similar commitments. Good luck! https://www.timpson.co.uk/about/careers-at-timpson https://www.timpson.co.uk/about/careers-at-timpson
- connordoner 5y ago
  I absolutely second this! Timpsons are a brilliant employer.
stevep98 5y ago
Learn how to write phone apps and sell them on the App Store. You can be your own boss.
ROTMetro 5y ago
Older recently released USA ex con here. I recently gave up finding a job and am trying to start my own business. At the halfway house the only job I could get was at a recycling plant (aka sorting garbage) and came up with a idea for really simple machine recognition that would eliminate that manual process and maybe even allow for powerful applications in the larger world. I have simpler short term projects to hopefully make money, but having a larger 'mission' helps me keep going on the bad days. Keep your head up and stay strong brother! I see you.
anpago 5y ago
Google "Ban the box" a scheme at least some employers including my own use. Which looks to not take into account in the early stages of the recruitment process about criminal convictions. I am no expert on but I believe it works quite well. By allowing people in situations like yours, at least getting a chance to get a foot in the door. Of course some roles may not be available. Good luck in your search.

TamDenholm 5y ago

I've been coding for 20 years (UK) and done mainly contracting primarily in the private sector and never once had to go through any checks. Also in 99% of gigs i've taken, the number 1 factor in getting hired is "can you do the job", thats it. While obviously the industry skews very young, i've worked with plenty techies over 50 that have been hired because they have experience, and quite simply, they can do the job. If you stick to the private sector, the convictions wont even come up unless you bring them up and i think it would be rare to come up against ageism, and if you do, then simply, you dont want to work for those companies anyway. Talk to some recruiters, tell them your skillset and see what they've got, I wouldnt bother mentioning the convictions because i personally dont see them as relevant (because whats relevant is, can you do the job), and they'll come back with options. If they talk about government or bank work, just say you'll pass on those and would rather work for a private company. I have the same preference purely due to my distaste for paperwork and beaurocracy, private companies are easier to deal with. I suggest trying to reframe your mindset to evidence based, rather than assumption based. Right now you're making a lot of assumptions that you wont be successful without having any evidence of such. You have a lot of valuable skills, go and assess the marketplace, in my opinion, you can be successful.

cloogshicer 5y ago
Great answer, can only confirm this, even for employment, not only contracting. Go for it!
Nextgrid 5y ago
To be fair, a lot of contracts have a clause to confirm that you don't have any unspent convictions. Granted, you can lie and indeed it probably will never be discovered but that's fraud.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  > fraud. Depends on locale. In the UK (IANAL) it wouldn't be _fraud_, but would be grounds to terminating the contract. But not criminal. Employer could potentially sue for damages, but there must be some damages for that.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    Thanks - this is a very good point and looks hopeful for the OP. To the OP I suggest to confirm this with a lawyer; if it's indeed not criminal and the worst outcome of a lie is termination and a civil lawsuit (which requires proving damages) it might be worth betting on it.
    - throwaway301010 5y ago
      The advantage of being an ex-lawyer is I do know this to be a criminal offence!
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    People describe anything and everything they don't agree with as 'fraud'.
  - wheels 5y ago
    And in Germany, it would be illegal to ask unless it was specifically relevant to the job – and courts have specifically decided that you can lie if you're asked and it's not relevant. The US tends to really overreach on that sort of thing, but it's not universal. It may even be that picking contracts in the EU would be useful.

sztanko 5y ago

I think your solicitor and money laundering background might be valuable in the modern world trying to digitize everything. - Have a look at LegalTech companies: https://www.maddyness.com/uk/2020/10/05/legaltech-12-startups-changing-the-archaic-law-systems-in-the-uk/ https://www.maddyness.com/uk/2020/10/05/legaltech-12-startup.... I guess there is a small but existing ecosystem and community in those communities and you could get there. - (Anti) Money laundering is a very hot topic in fintechs, and my experience is suggesting it is the most ML and AI intensive sector (trying to understand if a given transaction is related to money laundering is a non-supervised ML domain), there is a decent amount of graph algos involved and also the regulation is still quite archaic. I would say if positioned well, someone with backgrounds in legal and tech is a very valuable asset for any fintech. I also believe your conviction could be turned into your strong asset - you already have a unique and genuine story to tell. If you are ok into public speaking, you could get a speaker slot any any AML|Legal + tech related conference. I also believe going informal networking is more efficient then going through the formal recruitment process - this is where all your unique selling points would turn into disadvantages. Recruitment is designed to be scalable and you are an outlier there.

MrDunham 5y ago
this is a fantastic answer for several reasons and I’m commenting because an upvote alone just doesn’t do it justice. > I also believe your conviction could be turned into your strong asset - you already have a unique and genuine story to tell I so love this. It reminds me of Frank Abagnale, Jr., whose story is told in “Catch me if you can“. He went from convicted felon to savior of the banking industry and implemented a ton of solutions to the very things he exploited. > you could get a speaker slot any any AML|Legal + tech related conference. this is also a wonderful suggestion that could help you rapidly reframe your story. > I also believe going informal networking is more efficient then going through the formal recruitment process Can confirm this is crucial. I am the son of an executive recruiter who placed a ton of CFOs into midsize startups back in the dot-com days. When Mom was teaching me how to land jobs she suggested only using job boards and the like to get a feel for who is hiring and then networking in. Would be even more important with special circumstances like yours. People hire people, not resumes for the most part. I also know at least one company who specifically hires only ex-cons (in construction so this isn’t directly relevant to you) to help them get on their feet and keep them from repeat offending out of desperation. ----- The rest of this post is wonderful too but I don’t have much more to add to it. The nice thing about jobhunting is you only need one person to say yes. Reframing your problem into an asset and thinking about how you could uniquely help the industry could set you apart in a positive way.

_wldu 5y ago

Large corporate and government jobs are probably not available to you now. But, you can work for yourself as a consultant or contractor. There are pros and cons to being self-employed. Many people find it freeing, but maybe a bit less stable. Criminal convictions just limit your job options. They are not a life sentence. If you have paid your debt to society and follow the law now, you can still have a great life. And, I hope you do. Edit: I would also encourage you to never lie if asked about the conviction. If you lie, people will know and they won't trust you. Never lie about it.

jjgreen 5y ago

Are you in reach of London? If so, look at start-ups in London, there's a lot of demand for experienced devs, a lot, and while you might find ageism in some of them, in many others being an outlier or oddball is a positive advantage, really depends on the culture of the particular place. I speak as an old-git senior dev working in start-ups in London (and really rather enjoying it).

EveYoung 5y ago
I fully agree, I don't think many London companies can afford to reject good candidates only because of age. Recently, I had the exact opposite experience, where an older candidate turned down an offer because they didn't want to report to a significantly younger manager.

taubek 5y ago

Just one thing, regarding your age: your age brings wisdom to the table. Things that we have seen, encountered, overcome can never be replaced or thought by any kind of diploma. Most of my coworkers are 15-20 years younger than me. I'm the oldest one in the company and I don't feel discriminated.

throwaway245345 5y ago

You don't even need to mention this stuff, and if you're not an employee I think the chances of being compelled to divulge it are low. Especially if you're freelancing. Secondly, if you are an employee, I think you can develop a good narrative to explain where you came from, where you are today, and how you've changed (etc), and how serious you are about putting it behind you. You could even suggest some initial 'concessions' like a longer probation period for you, to prove your commitment and ally their potential concerns.

jimmyed 5y ago

Go to India and work as a contractor. You'll be considered a huge deal due to your age and they won't know anything about your convictions.

scotty79 5y ago

Move to another country. You conviction history probably won't follow you there.

rossdavidh 5y ago
Information flows across borders ever-more easily, so even if that were true today (and I'm not so sure about that), it might not be tomorrow.

robinduckett 5y ago

I've been a contractor in the UK for a good few years, and never had to have a DBS check until I got a job that was primarily fixated in the finance industry. This includes when I have previously worked for a few different e-commerce sector clients. Data science is particularly used in Marketing companies, and I doubt they'll care about your previous convictions.

christophilus 5y ago

Record: I'm not hiring now, but if I was, I wouldn't necessarily hold any of this against you. Heck, I wouldn't even know about it, since we don't do any kind of criminal screening. The main concern I'd have is whether or not you can do your job. If I did know about your past, I'd want to be sure that you would be clean moving forward. I think (and hope!) you overestimate the negative impact on your career. Ageism: the main problem with hiring older people is that they are expensive relative to new grads. The other problem is that they are often perceived as being inflexible and lacking desire / drive. Expense: It's a trade-off. Sometimes, you need the expertise, and it's worth the extra $$$. Sometimes, not. But in my opinion, it's almost always worth paying up (within reason) for experience. I tend to err on the side of reverse ageism, which is unfortunate for junior engineers who interview with me. Drive: This perception is a false one, but it is pervasive in HR departments from what I've seen. If you can get through HR to the actual technical interview phase, I don't think this will hold you back, as you're clearly engaged and interested.

captaincaveman 5y ago

throway453sde 5y ago

When it comes to ageism Work From Home certainly helps. All interviews are online and i wear wig during interviews and thankfully my skin is not wrinkled so much. Also with the current progress in AI i am betting on wrinkle free video masks softwares in the near future. I will never go back to full time office jobs.

xaxaxb 5y ago

Sir, salute your effort. I'm no expert but have you thought about freelancing? Also you can start on Twitch if you haven't already. You can practice your skills there and meet and connect with people.

judgemehiring 5y ago

I am the founder & CEO of Judge.me and we're hiring senior software engineers. No issue with your background as long as it has nothing violent in it. Please see careers.judge.me if interested in working for us.

throwaway301010 5y ago
Hi are you Peter-jan or Linh?

AlwaysRock 5y ago

You can work via an contracting/recruiting agency very likely. Many of them dont do background checks and companies assume that they do. You probably have skills that would be relevant. You would just need to find the right one.

darrenwestall 5y ago

I’d hire you - we all make mistakes. Contact info in my profile if you fancy chatting more.

throwaway301010 5y ago
Awesome! Looked at what you do. Will be in touch. Thanks for being generous.

memossy 5y ago

You should go web3. There are incredibly few lawyers who know anything about crypto and huge demand. You can also join DAOs etc and earn significant amounts of money for your effort versus who you are. If you want to do web3 code go to https://buildspace.so/ https://buildspace.so/ and you'll be in in a few months max. I'm happy to have a chat about some of our web3 stuff too, semantic [at] gmail

numerik_meister 5y ago

Random idea, have you tried applying at a university? Sometimes big research groups have additional employees (not Ph.ds or postdocs) who just assist in software development. Due to the low salaries they are always desperate for hiring. Also there are a lot of older employees in the IT departments at universities, so maybe ageism would be less of an issue. Not sure how they deal with ex-convicts.

throwaway301010 5y ago
Unis are more open to inclusive hiring from what I hear so that may be worth exploring, but they also have safeguarding issues as they have young people there - though as a money launderer not a kiddy-fiddler I'm not sure how worried they be, unless they'd worry about moral corruption!
- hogrider 5y ago
  On the other hand, in academia you are nuch more likely to find the moral relativistic nihilists that wouldn't care a past white collar crime conviction.
  - throwaway301010 5y ago
    Most nihilist would be likely to say "stuff it, have the job, I don't care, it's all pointless."
milliams 5y ago
We post these kinds of jobs on the Society of Research Software Engineering website at https://society-rse.org/careers/vacancies/ https://society-rse.org/careers/vacancies/ I can't speak for how any of their HR departments would treat your case though.
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  Great resource - thanks very much - I was looking at find just this type of thing, also I found https://www.jobs.ac.uk/ https://www.jobs.ac.uk/

tpoacher 5y ago

Sorry to hear about your situation. It really sucks. I don't have a specific answer to your question, but a couple of stray thoughts: 1. You could attempt to find an open source project of interest to you, and start contributing, make yourself part of the community, make some friends so to speak. If/when you later confide your secret, you're already known and proven yourself to the community, and will probably be received in a much more positive light. Not sure where that leads you, but a network is always useful. Maybe you can raise money and get paid to maintain that software. Maybe your community will endorse you to your new employers. 2. You are more likely to be employed in projects that involve the penal system, in which case your handicap turns itself on its head, and becomes "insider experience". I've seen many startups and charities relating to this. Perhaps there's an ML project out there in this topic that would greatly benefit from your insight.

tpoacher 5y ago
In case this is of further interest, the big issue mentioned two social enterprises that are ex-convict themed and employ ex-convicts. Working chance, and The Skill Mill
throwaway301010 5y ago
Yes, penal system rehabilitation projects is good suggestion. People do that, and it may be possible to do a UK cons-to-coders ML project (there was one in the US). I've seen people on HN cast doubts on OS projects as a portfolio approach but it's worth contemplating.
talolard 5y ago
Keeping with the theme of insider experience, you might want to reach out for companies doing auditing, fraud detection etc. A domain expert who knows ML is a hot find

sol_invictus 5y ago

I would set up my own shop under a limited company and try to land programming gigs. You can sidestep most personal checks that way.

deleted 5y ago
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Nextgrid 5y ago
In my experience most contracts require you to confirm that the director and/or representative doesn't have any unspent convictions. It's of course up to him whether he wants to lie and deal with potential consequences. In practice there are very little checks though.
- oakesm9 5y ago
  I'm a freelancer/contracter in the UK working through my own limited company. Most of the time I try to use my own contract, but if clients insist on using their own, I will sometimes use them. I've gone through a few of those where the client supplied the contract and only two out of maybe a dozen had any caluse related to convictions (from a quick search of them). One was a clause about people working on the project being: > fit and proper persons for the tasks assigned to them, and in particular have no unspent criminal convictions for any offence involving dishonesty or computer crime Another had a clause about terminating the contract early if the contractor is: > being convicted of any criminal offence other than a minor driving offence under the Road Traffic Acts None of the others I looked at had anything else like that. I don't think any convictions would be a major barrier for OP if they are working with typical private sector companies. As other have said, it's likely any public sector work or specific industires such as education, defenece, or finance might have more checks in place.
s_dev 5y ago
Many convicted white collar criminals are barred from being a director of any company. Using a company for money laundering would be a good basic example.

opless 5y ago

I'd say forget about getting "a job" and write your own apps, or do consultancy work where clients engage your company - not you. Though I'd check about you being able to be a company director.

joshvm 5y ago
The law is a little vague. It says that someone convicted of money laundering may be disqualified for acting as a company director (ish). I assume that would be part of sentencing, or it may be a decision made by Companies House (or whoever vets that). Certainly ex-prisoners can start business in general. A bigger issue may be things that require credit checks, like business loans, bank accounts, insurance, etc. Some good advice here: https://unlock.org.uk/advice/things-think-becoming-self-employed/ https://unlock.org.uk/advice/things-think-becoming-self-empl...
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  You'd only be disbarred from being a company director if the court ordered it or if Companies House applied to the court to disbar you. Max 15 years disbarment.
- opless 5y ago
  That indeed is a good link. If you’re setting yourself up in a consultancy, you don’t usually need start up capital and hence no loans required. Bank accounts and insurance are a requirement however!

aliswe 5y ago

Can you email me? Check my profile and add an "a" between the dots in my email. I don't have a big gig right now but can tell you more and present myself.

the-dude 5y ago

I think it US centric, but with the recent remote trend, you'll never know : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14911467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14911467 ( Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records ) In NL, banks have been expanding their anti-fraud division for years, maybe this would be a good fit?

sol_invictus 5y ago
Banks won't touch this guy with a ten-foot pole. I'm not saying it's right at all, but big banks are among the lowest of low in terms of ethics and integrity.

nicoburns 5y ago

> I guess I'll never get a job coding due to ageism I wouldn't assume that. Demand for coders with experience is through the roof at the moment, and from what I can tell the ageism issue is less severe in the UK than it is in the US. I can see your conviction being an issue for data science jobs as such a job inherently requires trusting you to have access to the data. But perhaps you could find a job that's working on public datasets? Perhaps it would be worth considering trying to find a government / civil service job? They will have lots of public data, and probably have good non-discrimination policies too.

mkdirp 5y ago
> > I guess I'll never get a job coding due to ageism > I wouldn't assume that. I can't add a lot to this discussion, but my colleague, who is in his 50s, got hired around the same time as me here in the UK.
shubb 5y ago
My experience of UK government and government contractor jobs is that they follow a recruitment standard where they are much more likely to check convictions. Many need some low level security clearance too which would be a problem. On the other hand for more generic startup jobs in the UK, you might not even be asked about criminal history except "so what is this period on your CV", and they are much less likely to care as long as you tell a good story about why it won't happen again. I'd lean towards smaller companies as far from government and finance as possible...

zepolen 5y ago

Ironic that the easily available jobs for you would be illegal underground ones.

alejolp 5y ago

I worked fro the UK to the US. Did not have to do any DBS. The most hassle has been taxes and HMRC.

deleted 5y ago

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danielrpa 5y ago

Is finding work for ex-convicts with coding skills a startup opportunity? Perhaps doing coding jobs for small businesses?

crispyambulance 5y ago
I happen to know about job training for incarcerated folks through a family member and also working with an adult basic education program. At least in the USA, the number of incarcerated people who happen to have coding skills of any level is going to be small, like very small. The vast, vast majority of incarcerated people need basic skills training to even be able to look for a job. Functional illiteracy is high, most have at best a grade-school level of reading/writing and math skills. There are many reasons why folks end up in jail, typically for each person a multitude of things went sideways early in life. One of the most common of these is a completely derailed education. It's never too late of course, and most people getting out of jail are still in their 20's and 30's. They're hungry for legit work, so yeah, there's enormous untapped potential. The organizations working in this space get government and private funding but are always on the verge of vaporizing. They are, AFAIK, non-profits with very strong social-work, basic-education, traditional vo-tech focus (because that's what their clients need most).
- throwaway301010 5y ago
  This 100%. Basic literacy & numeracy is stunningly low in UK prisons & improving basic education has been shown to improve reoffending rates greatly, in policy terms it ought to be a no-brainer but as you say the NGOs & charities in this space are starved of cash, mental health & addiction charities would slash offending rates, - but the government throws hundreds of millions of £ at contractors like Serco & G4S who can afford to lobby hard & donate to party funds, but who squander it.
sokoloff 5y ago
Seems like the total addressable market would be far too small to make for an interesting startup.

samuel 5y ago

Probably not what you want, but webdev skills are more marketable for freelancing, which seems your better chance of avoiding deep scrutiny. Best of luck.

kidgorgeous 5y ago

ir35 5y ago

The pandemic has worked in your favour. I’ve got a >£500/day contract job at the moment with no background check, never met, they don’t know my age. Start your own company (<£20 registration fee) then find outside IR35 contracts via LinkedIn recruiters: find a role that uses the intersection of your skills + experience — i.e: a data science contract with a law-adjacent firm. Very quick and easy, if you have skills then you’d have a job before the week is out. Don’t reject yourself before anyone else has the chance to: the bar for these jobs is very, very low.

throwaway301010 5y ago
>the bar for these jobs is very, very low. ideal :)

sigmaprimus 5y ago

I'm confused. You say that you're an ex-solicitor that is over 60 and served time for some "White Collar Stuff" as well as being convicted for money-laundering and you just got out of jail two years ago? What exactly causes someone seemingly so successful to fall down so far? Greed? Drugs? Illness? As far as the age situation goes, depending on how much over 60 you are...That could mean 80 and I wouldn't normally think that but well...but in any case if you are healthy you probably have another 10-15 good years ahead of you. If you are currently working on completing a masters degree for interest sake, I assume this means you have a means of support in place and are not supporting any dependents. I would think that looking into charitable organizations may be a good fit for someone with your past who is wanting to give back to society. I would not be looking for a career as I think unfortunately that ship has sailed and possibly sunken after crashing into the penitentiary's rocks. Working or volunteering for a charity might make up for some of the "White Collar Stuff" in the grand scale of things (Especially if that "stuff" resulted in putting Widows and Orphans into the Poorhouse/Workhouse).

kerneloftruth 5y ago
Here, you're supposed to see convicts solely as victims. I noticed, too, that he's specific about courses he's taking, but vague about the crimes -- and detect no remorse whatsoever. What he does describe sounds like he does indeed want to work, and I hope he finds an employer, somewhere.
- sigmaprimus 5y ago
  I was not trying to be mean or negative. I am aware that HN is not the place for such things. My question and comment was sincere, normally around now when the bullies pound my comment to the bottom of the thread I would rethink it but not this time.
  - codingdave 5y ago
    > unfortunately that ship has sailed and possibly sunken after crashing into the penitentiary's rocks. That is the comment that sounds unjustifiably mean and negative. I'm surprised you are doubling down on it.

bennysomething 5y ago

A friend of mine had a class a drugs possession conviction that was unspent at the time he was applying for jobs as a graduate. He just lied on the form about criminal records. Small firms don't bother with checks. Obviously this doesn't apply to financial institutions etc who do check. He's still employed now and has had a fairly decent career.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
If I was an employer considering to hire an ex-convict who was jailed for fraud, my main worry would be that they would pull some stupid shit again. Especially with code there seem to be many opportunities (adding backdoors, access to sensitive databases...). Lying in the application process would do little to alleviate that worry. Sure the, employer would have to find out first. But is it really the first thing an ex-convict looking for a job should do?
- Closi 5y ago
  > is it really the first thing an ex-convict looking for a job should do? Well the first part of your post describes why that might be necessary (i.e. you imply you would be unlikely to hire an ex-convict because they might do 'stupid shit', while OP is trying to find a job to get his feet back on the ground). Nobody wants to lie, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to sort your life out.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    Sure if nothing else works, but sorting your life out by doing the same thing that landed you in prison to begin with really strikes me as a bad idea. It's maybe sort of a fundamental attitude, either you are honest or not. Also this "I had no other choice" rationale also seems like a risk factor for slipping into crime again.
  - throwaway301010 5y ago
    Pragmatically, I'd not be prepared to lie because it is a criminal offence, fraud, and I doubt a court would look kindly on a repeat offence. But I tend to agree: "you gotta do what you gotta do", in my case feed the kids.

ggeorgovassilis 5y ago

How's your Perl?

arethuza 5y ago

There seem to be quite a few employers in the UK that encourage applications from people with convictions: https://www.ex-seed.co.uk/recommended-companies.html https://www.ex-seed.co.uk/recommended-companies.html Some of them are pretty big (e.g. Tesco) so I'd maybe try scanning their job pages and see if any of them have opening for entry level data scientists?

throwaway301010 5y ago
Good list! Thanks. I'll run through those. As you say, some big names.

AlexMuir 5y ago

Hi, interesting post. I don't think ageism is an issue - if you can get work done (and show it), you'll be hired. I'd suggest diving into a problem that interests you. I'm playing around with Companies House and Land Registry data at the moment. That's going to be an area you are well familiar with. Perhaps get in touch with some of the people working on OpenData stuff - Anna Powell-Smith might know someone who needs a data wrangler - https://twitter.com/darkgreener https://twitter.com/darkgreener I have a friend in a somewhat similar position - a highly educated, disbarred UK lawyer who did few years in prison. Drop me an email if you want me to put you in touch - me@alexmuir.com

adabaed 5y ago

Well, I'm not in your situation, only you know what is the "right" thing to do. If you don't feel comfortable working with children in their 20s and 30s, you can always try starting a business or working as a freelancer. Here is a good starting point. https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/best-freelance-websites https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/best-freelance-websites Keep in mind that these types of websites always keep a relevant part of your money. Think of them as a Google Add investment. Try to create your own brand and make it clear that you have a website where they can contact you in the future. Best of luck!

buro9 5y ago

You likely won't be able to get work with any firm that has customers in the financial, military, and medical spaces. This rules out a lot of sectors common to the UK and major cities. No hosting companies, Cloud vendors, service/consulting companies of reasonable size, etc. However there are large industries in the UK that will offer a solid job, the ones that spring to mind are academia and the charity sector. These industries aren't the top paying, and that's exactly why these jobs aren't being fought over. Additionally as you'll not come into direct contact with vulnerable people or children, DBS checks are unlikely to apply and the sector based restrictions like those in the financial industry are not present. The work in these industries also isn't the most challenging for coding, the challenge is typically it not being funded well enough and having to find cheap and pragmatic solutions you can maintain. In the charitable sector you really need to know Drupal and PHP... and then a mix of how to glue things together, run IT systems, etc. In academia it can be a real mix of work, from IT services, through to website and email services, all the way up to "PhD student knows what they want to run on a supercomputer but doesn't know how to get it to run efficiently on this (slightly older) supercomputer".

dmw_ng 5y ago
> You likely won't be able to get work with any firm that has customers in the financial, military, and medical spaces. This rules out a lot of sectors common to the UK and major cities. No hosting companies, Cloud vendors, service/consulting companies of reasonable size, etc. What is this based on? I've had 2 checks in 19 years of working privately, including contracting for 15 of those, many of which were outside the UK. Nobody in the chain, not HR, hiring managers or recruiters are incentivized to examine a candidate deeply once they've been accepted for a role, and for contracting HR rarely even enters the picture. In both cases where a check was carried out, it was for a company I could not recommend working for regardless of income. One of these resulted in the only time I have needed a solicitor to ensure timely payments. From this angle failing DBS sounds like it might be a blessing in disguise for OP
- richardwhiuk 5y ago
  It's really trivial for an employer to do, and it's required by compliance regulations.

shmatt 5y ago

You write most importantly about ageism and then by the way about “dont fancy doing all the BS prep needed for interviews anyway” I’ve worked with plenty of non management engineers in your age group in corporate America. Absolutely none of them got their job by trying to skip what the rest of us have to do to interview. There’s your problem

throwaway301010 5y ago
Pointless tech interviews are a well rehearsed topic on HN and I referred to that. I don't mind prepping for interviews but not spending 6 months doing leetcode exercises about weird trees & stuff I'll never implement.

pengwing 5y ago

Freelance software development and use an AI generated photo of a person in their mid 30s.

sjg007 5y ago

In the movies you’d be the guy who gets hired by MI5 to route out criminals syndicates etc…

bartread 5y ago

I'm hiring software engineers now. I've enquired with our HR team as to whether your convictions are likely to disqualify you because I've never encountered this situation before. I'm the CTO at Savanta: https://savanta.com/ https://savanta.com/. My email is ${myfirstname}.${mylastname} (all lowercase) at the company's domain. My first name is Bart. If you're interested please drop me a line and, assuming there's a possibility of us hiring you, we can have a chat - either way I will certainly let you know. Your age is not important and, in fact, may even be an advantage for many roles. I've worked with plenty of older people and value their experience. As long as you're based in the UK your precise location is also unimportant as our software engineering roles can mostly be fully remote. EDIT: I've heard back from our head of HR. We review all such situations on a case by case basis so you're not by default barred from employment with us. Money laundering might ring a few alarm bells if you were looking for a job in our finance team but does not pose any inherent issue with our technology team. Therefore, if you are interested in having a conversation, please do get in touch. Either way I wish you the best with finding a role!

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
Thanks so much for that, Bart! Never met you, but it sounds like you are a decent sort. In some cases, being an ex-con can actually be an advantage. I know quite a few, and some of them are amazingly clever folks (some are total dumbasses, too). Seeing what Savanta does, it might be a great idea to consider a non-standard (but also highly educated, and highly experienced) content expert. Good luck to everyone.
- deleted 5y ago
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nefitty 5y ago
Thanks for inspiring some hope in me Bart. I think today will be a good day.
throwaway301010 5y ago
That's really awesome. So nice to see someone willing to at least give a man a shot! Will be in touch.

lnxg33k1 5y ago

Can you get work permit for other European countries? There are more cultures that have different approach to ex-con than evangelicals, I'd try with some of that if you can

johnspiralnew 5y ago

Setup a Linkedin profile, be open about your conviction it will reduce your long term stress once you land a job. Get involved answering tech questions on either Linkedin or Stack Exchange.... this will give your technical prowess authenticity. If you still can't get a job consider volunteering as a way to get a reference, again be open about your conviction.

chriotte 5y ago

I did many interviews in my previous workplace, and we never cared about age when recruiting. My colleagues were between 20-something and up to retirement age (I'm now in my late twenties). The most exciting and valuable people I've worked with were the latter. The more senior people always brought a ton of knowledge to the table and were often able to draw parallels between the stuff we were solving now with things they had already solved 20 or 30 years ago. I would not worry about your age, and your troublesome past adds some spice and a different perspective to life, and I'm sure most companies will embrace your talent. Feel free to send me a note on chris *at** dataespresso *dot** com, and I can share with you some info about my previous employer and possibly make an introduction. They have offices all over the UK, and I think you'd enjoy working there.

alexthenotgreat 5y ago

throwaway301010 5y ago
Good suggestions, especially probation periods.

rossdavidh 5y ago

The smaller the organization, the more leeway they have to decide on cases like yours. Also, the less attached they are likely to be to the idea of hiring a 21-year old who will be more easily intimidated by their first boss, etc. Consider inquiring with smaller firms who need IT help. They value the independence of an older coder more, since there is not a large IT team (you might be alone), and they have less bureaucracy. Obviously, in certain industries there will be laws regarding who gets access to data that they don't have the ability to change, but in manufacturing for instance, or retail, this is unlikely the case.

lloydjones 5y ago

catbuttes 5y ago

Seconding the suggestions that you may be able to turn your history into an asset in the right hands. It might be worth taking a look at some of the IT suppliers for the prison system. Unilink are one I am aware of - they do self serve kiosks that are in use in a number of prisons in the UK for stuff like canteen orders and visit booking. They look to be recruiting at the moment as well, so getting in touch can't hurt! https://www.unilink.com/vacancies/ https://www.unilink.com/vacancies/

xtracto 5y ago

Hey.. ill just say look at kevin mitnick, his history and his current company (KnowBe4): he is an exconvict criminal hacker that nowadays gives security talks and has this great security company. I'm not in the uk but here in Mexico most finTechs must adhere to a though AML regulations. In a past startup, my team had to implement an AML system to catch high risk transactions, flag them and eventually report them. Maybe not as a full time employee, but you may be hirable as an expert consultant, with strong tech knowledge . Best of luck!!

rsyring 5y ago

Look at getting involved in Salesforce. It's a cert driven technology and the cert process is actually helpful if you take the time to learn. Start with a Salesforce Administrator cert (few months to get it) and go from there. In the US, these jobs are starting in the $80K range and you can easily find remote and part time positions, maybe as a contractor for a smaller company where the background check won't come up.

gm3dmo 5y ago

> But I like stats ML and data so I'd love to try for that. Building some reputation on an ML/AI/Data site like Kaggle might be helpful to get noticed. https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/timpson-foundation/ex-offenders/ https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/timpson-foundation/ex-offend... Timpson's have a very strong reputation for offerening employment to marginalized groups. I'm sure they have a back office operation that drives the shoe repair and key cutting shops so they may be worth investigating.

throwaway301010 5y ago
Timpsons are indeed well known for this and while in open prison a number of men went out everyday to work in their shops.

tootie 5y ago

Become a product expert. Salesforce admins are in huge demand. SAP is another.

akamaka 5y ago

Cryptocurrency startups! Many of the company founders in this sector are skeptical of the current system of financial regulation. Tell them about your conviction up front. I’d bet many of them would be fascinated to hear your story.

unixhero 5y ago

If any humor any allowed here, a manager of small would company would probably behave like this https://youtu.be/OYEMcX8dj5M https://youtu.be/OYEMcX8dj5M

throwaway301010 5y ago
Well that was painful to watch!

mellavora 5y ago

Doesn't Techstars have a program which specifically trains people to code while they are still in jail, and then helps them find work afterwards? You could get in touch with the people who run that program, they could certainly provide leads. Which is a great idea; because by giving someone a viable non-criminal way to make a living, they are under much less pressure to resort to non-legally sanctioned employment after release, i.e. after they have PAID their debt to society (assuming that they were actually guilty, and guilty of something which would incur a debt to society... neither of which is necessarily true for any given prisoner).

kingcharles 5y ago

As a coder who just got out of jail himself, I was never asked for a background check for any development job in the UK. Maybe if you were going for a military/intelligence contractor position, but otherwise, I've never even heard of a British firm doing a criminal background check. Just my 2 pennies.

captaincaveman 5y ago

Criminal record only a problem for the subset of businesses that care/check about that sort of thing, which is less than what others are saying (25 years experience in UK). Over 60 and a junior programmer isn't easy, your salary expectations are possibly higher and your willingness to grind through problems is also probably lower, I know both of those would be the case for me, and mean no offence. So yes to be honest it will be a bit harder for you, however, its a job seekers market at present and with perseverance I don't doubt you'll find a job, and without that same grit you'd unlikely to last as professional engineer today anyways. Most companies don't do all that leetcode stuff in UK, interviewing is still a pain though.

gnu8 5y ago
> willingness to grind through problems is also probably lower Maybe I misunderstand what you’re saying here but I don’t think this is fair. An older worker should know to put the problem down at 5 PM and walk away from it, but that doesn’t mean they’re unwilling to work on a problem they haven’t solved before. At least, I hope some day when I’m an elderly ex convict that I will still be able and willing to solve new problems.
- captaincaveman 5y ago
  In my experience (not 60 but I don't see it getting better), is when learning some arbitrary tech you have to bump your head on a lot of tedious things, there is so much to learn it takes a lot of effort to get to that eureka point. With age I am less inclined to dedicate hours to this, the outcome doesn't feel worth the effort anymore, the knowledge soon becomes redundant as the new shiny comes along. Perhaps this due to experience rather than age to be fair. Also as a junior engineer, its not that the problem your trying to crack is likely to be some business problem, most likely some stupid bug in your code.

hardlianotion 5y ago

No problems with age. Hope to be hiring fairly soon - optimisation and statistics - happy to chat.

atlgator 5y ago

You could try freelance projects on upwork or fiverr. It will help fill out your resume and put food on the table while you're looking for a longer term position. If you get enough experience and/or develop the relationships you could start your own contracting company. Target small or medium sized businesses that may not check into you as an individual (versus the company).

speedbird 5y ago

Try NICE Actimize and some of their competition. Financial crime detection software for financial service organisations. They need to read financial regulations from FCA / EU, SEC etc like MIFID 2 and turn them into pattern detection software. Your data science interest would also be very relevant there.

deleted 5y ago

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ellen364 5y ago

Lots of good advice in this thread. One thing I didn’t see anyone mention is how to explain the gap in your CV. Anecdotally, hiring committees are often sceptical about career gaps. The post says you got out of prison a couple of years ago. That’s recent enough that you probably can’t drop it off the end. (As people tend do for jobs that were decades ago.) I can think of two broad options. (1) Leave the gap as a gap. Accept that some companies will filter you out and many will ask about the gap at interview. You could prepare a good way to explain when asked and the story might do you favours. But springing a big surprise in an interview can go poorly. (2) Include prison as an entry in your CV. Solves the gap problem and the “springing a surprise at interview” problem. Probably increases the “getting filtered out” problem, maybe by a lot. But it might also help you quickly discover which companies are a good fit. Best of luck.

dorkwood 5y ago
Are gaps really that much of an issue? What about freelancers, for example? Are they filtered out?
- aix1 5y ago
  I guess we don't know how long of a gap we're talking about in the OP's case.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > Are gaps really that much of an issue? What about freelancers, for example? Are they filtered out? Speaking as someone who alternated between freelancing and full time employment, no. Simply include the period as another job. You can list the position as 'Freelance Web Developer' or whatever is appropriate, or even 'Sole Proprietor, CompanyName' if you actually used a DBA. Then, as per usual, list notable highlights of problems solved for customers, tech used, responsibilities & regular duties. It may even be useful to list some accomplishments AS an independent business person (marketing campaigns run to acquire customers, customer growth or churn, NPS, niches identified, MVPs built, subcontractors managed, etc.), for the period, depending on the nature of the position you're applying for. Lots of companies are pleased to get applicants that have a bigger picture of making a business work, and you might appreciate being able to identify (and eliminate from consideration) the other companies that are just looking for cogs to slot into their machine.

blunte 5y ago

One of my clients did 10 years for two charges which actually weren't true (don't mess with Texas, or at least not the people who help get officials elected!) What we found was that many people do not care if you've been in prison, especially if you almost use that as a badge of honor. If you try to suppress it, it is used as a negative. Sure there will be people who will judge any ex-con immediately and not want to work with them, but there are also people who will judge any group (women, minorities, etc.). So the prison time can be used to your advantage with many audiences. Resilience. Social pennance. Triumph over injustice. Whatever. Also, EVERY human worth working with understands that we all make mistakes. Some of them just cost us a lot more... Most jobs are found by networking, regardless of the industry or skillset. So the biggest question is, what would you really like to do? I personally would argue against software development, just because I wish I had chosen something else in my life; but instead it has been the career that locks me in because it makes more money than other undeveloped skills I might have had. This might be a strange suggestion, but perhaps there's something about your mistake you made some time ago which you learned from, and which you can use to provide a value to clients. Not saying this is the case (really), but if you were intentionally trying to shuffle money illegally and got caught, maybe you have advice for other people who are doing things that might get them in trouble. Especially with your technical interest, you might be able to help them avoid doing something stupid or even steer them away from trying. Or maybe you know better how to help them do it without getting caught. I'm not judging here, because some of the biggest global banks have made fortunes intentionally laundering money. I'm not aware of any of them being in jail... More specifically, especially at your age, I would try to discover you passion. Then go with that. Yes we need money to live, but you can also move to cheaper places (and network/work via the internet).

robocat 5y ago
> I would try to discover you passion. Then go with that. Easy to say, hard to do. I liked this idea: """ One approach I recommend for uncovering desires involves taking the time to listen to the most deeply fulfilling experiences of your colleagues’ (or partners’, or friends’, or classmates’) lives, and sharing your own with them. The more we understand one another’s stories of meaningful achievement, the more effectively we understand how to work with each other: what moves and motivates others, what gives them satisfaction in their work. It seems simple, but nobody does it. Ask yourself: How many people do you work with who could name even one of your most meaningful achievements and explain why it was so meaningful to you? A motivational drive is a specific and enduring behavioral energy that has oriented you throughout your life to achieve a distinct pattern of results. You may be fundamentally motivated, for instance, to bring control, to evoke recognition, or to overcome obstacles. Because most of us have never thought seriously about the nature of our motivation, we lack the language to be able to describe our core motivational drives with much precision. This exercise gives us that ability. Core motivational drives are enduring, irresistible, and insatiable. They are probably explanatory of much of your behavior since the time you were a child. Think of them as your motivational energy—the reason you consistently gravitate toward certain types of projects (team versus individual, goal-oriented versus ideation) and activities (sports, arts, theater, forms of fitness) and not others. There are patterns in your motivation. If you can put your finger on what specifically they are, then you will have taken a major step toward understanding your thick desires. The best way to uncover the patterns is by sharing stories. Stories about times in your life when you took an action that ended up being deeply fulfilling. Today it’s one of the first questions that I ask in any job interview because it helps cut through the thin stuff and goes straight to the essence of the person. “Tell me about a time in your life when you did something well and it brought you a sense of fulfillment,” I ask. I have seen this simple question transform interactions between individuals and entire communities. When stories are shared between two people who know how to listen well, the experience transports both the storyteller and the listener to a time when desire led to extraordinarily fulfillment. That’s why sharing those stories is a joyful experience. A Fulfillment Story, as I call it, has three essential elements: 1 It’s an action. You took some concrete action and you were the main protagonist, as opposed to passively taking in an experience. As life-changing as a Springsteen concert at the Stone Pony might have been for you, it’s not a Fulfillment Story. It might be for Bruce, but not for you. Dedicating yourself to learning everything about an artist and their work, on the other hand, could be. 2 You believe you did well. You did it with excellence, you did it well—by your own estimation, and nobody else’s. You are looking for an achievement that matters to you. If you grilled what you think is a perfect rib-eye steak the other night, then you did something well and achieved something. Don’t worry about how big or small the achievement might seem to anyone else. 3 It brought you a sense of fulfillment. Your action brought you a deep sense of fulfillment, maybe even joy. Not the fleeting, temporary kind, like an endorphin rush. Fulfillment: you woke up the next morning and felt a sense of satisfaction about it. You still do. Just thinking about it brings some of it back. Such moments of profound meaning and satisfaction matter. They reveal something critical about who you are. Knowing something about the interior life of a person is necessary to understand why they do what they do and what it means to them. Fulfillment Stories get at the heart of action by looking at it from the inside out. Fulfillment Stories ask, “But why did that action mean so much to you?” The question and answer kick off a positive mimetic cycle. You tell one of your Fulfillment Stories. I listen with empathy to what you are telling me and reflect back to you what I heard and saw and felt in your story. Then you do the same for me. Empathy imitates empathy, heart speaks to heart. Every time I told a Fulfillment Story, another rose to the surface. As I dove deeper into my past, I uncovered stories I hadn’t thought about in a long time. Not only that—I hadn’t even recognized them as stories of fulfilling action at the time. Most people are rarely, if ever, asked to tell the stories of their deeply fulfilling achievements. """ Excerpt from the book Wanting by Luke Burgis. I bought it because the book’s topic was “Human desire is mimetic – we imitate what other people want”, which is a very powerful idea. Unfortunately I felt the book was trashy American self help author ego stroking, but the section above stood out to me.

anonymousiam 5y ago

The problem is the system. A jail term is supposed to be the full "payment" of your "debt to society", but once you have a conviction on your record, you are doomed, regardless of whether or not you are at risk of recidivism. https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2015/12/10/former-inmates-still-pay-for-crimes-after-they-pay-debt-to-society/ https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2015/12/10/former-inmates-sti...

arzel 5y ago

What are your contact details? We are hiring.

ed_elliott_asc 5y ago

Unless you want to work in finance/insurance/schools or something similar you won’t be asked to do a DBS - I’ve not been asked if I have any convictions for any role that wasn’t in finance. There is a massive shortage of people now in data (engineering/scientists/etc) Go contracting, they are much easier to get and once you have a couple under your belt it gets much easier.

238475235243 5y ago

Start a Ltd company and use that to find work on Upwork.

Cullinet 5y ago

Just adding at the end, I reacted immediately to the matter of principle that my company would never take a principled or fundamental view of excluding you from consideration from employment, and in trying to make it as clear as possible, everything else fell from my conscious consideration - for the simple reason that you have a very strong fit indeed with the requirements that we have for the future. Now I have re read your post, please let me try both to play down our commercial potential at the same time as bidding you by all means do drop me a line. I can't discuss openly what needs to happen in our position, but on the face of it, if all goes well then I would probably be disappointed if we never found out what the possibilities may be. Whatever happens, very best wishes from me.

hunglee2 5y ago

Try Timpsons - the cobblers. They have a standing policy that 10% of their employee base must come from the formerly incarcerated. Most of these workers will be working in the shops, actually repairing the shoes, but I think the policy is across the business for roles in head office should be part of this commitment I think with your legal skills you have a shot at the legal department, with programming definitely a shot in IT department. Check out the careers page - one front page, it mentions ex-offenders. Give it a shot. Also, I've reached out to James Timpson, to see if he knows of any other UK employers who have similar commitments. Good luck! https://www.timpson.co.uk/about/careers-at-timpson https://www.timpson.co.uk/about/careers-at-timpson

connordoner 5y ago
I absolutely second this! Timpsons are a brilliant employer.

stevep98 5y ago

Learn how to write phone apps and sell them on the App Store. You can be your own boss.

ROTMetro 5y ago

Older recently released USA ex con here. I recently gave up finding a job and am trying to start my own business. At the halfway house the only job I could get was at a recycling plant (aka sorting garbage) and came up with a idea for really simple machine recognition that would eliminate that manual process and maybe even allow for powerful applications in the larger world. I have simpler short term projects to hopefully make money, but having a larger 'mission' helps me keep going on the bad days. Keep your head up and stay strong brother! I see you.

anpago 5y ago

Google "Ban the box" a scheme at least some employers including my own use. Which looks to not take into account in the early stages of the recruitment process about criminal convictions. I am no expert on but I believe it works quite well. By allowing people in situations like yours, at least getting a chance to get a foot in the door. Of course some roles may not be available. Good luck in your search.