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Analogue Pocket Hate Story

168 points by marlowe221 5y ago

izzydata 5y ago
I don't even understand the use-case for this device. Who saved all their cartridges, but not their Gameboy? You may as well get a cheaper and more versatile retro handheld. The idea that hardware emulation is somehow better than software emulation when the end results feel indistinguishable to the user seems like a pointless argument.
- tekstar 5y ago
  Not saying this to disagree with you, but there are companies manufacturing new cartridge copies of old NES/SNES (probably GB but I never checked) games for a fraction of some of the more expensive games. A friend of a friend of mine got a copy of Chrono Trigger for SNES from aliexpress. There are a few "tells" to know it's a copy (one of which is that it looks too new!), but it plays perfectly in his SNES. Your point still stands, but I just thought this was interesting that this market exists.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    That's more understandable, at least to my retrogaming enthusiast eyes. A reproduction cart is trying to look like the original cart and provide the sense of physical connection to the work[0] that ROMs just don't give you. The Analogue Pocket does not really resemble the devices it emulates, and while it can provide a means to play original carts, one can get original devices for the same or less cost that will also do so and be more authentic. Which is not to say there's no reason to own an Analog Pocket, it's a set of tradeoffs. I just personally find those trade offs make very little sense. [0] by which I mean the game, taken as a piece of artistic expression
- klodolph 5y ago
  The device supports several different systems, not just the various Game Boy iterations. Compared to original hardware, the promise is that it will have a better screen, a sleep mode, let you play on TV, load ROMs from computer (if you're a developer), etc. Compared to software, the promise is the form factor.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    There are a lot of software-emulation based consoles in this form factor that provide significantly more features than the Analogue Pocket. If authenticity is not your goal, I have to agree with parent that there is little reason to prefer FPGA in this space.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    You can easily buy an Anbernic device for less than one hundred dollars if you just want portable emulation, so it's not the form factor. It's specifically for people who are hung up on software emulation vs. FPGA-based emulation.
    - kllrnohj 5y ago
      https://anbernic.com/products/anbernic-new-rg351v-retro-games-built-in-16g-rk3326-open-source-3-5-inch-640-480-handheld-game-console-emulator-for-ps1-kid-gift-1?variant=40986761330852 https://anbernic.com/products/anbernic-new-rg351v-retro-game... Seems to be $120 for equivalent form-factor, but still missing a large amount of what the Pocket supports (such as physical cartridges, link cable, and TV output), and with a worse display and a smaller battery. And it's not like the Pocket is that much more expensive at $220.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        On the other hand, I can't use the Analog Pocket to play PlayStation, Dreamcast, Genesis, etc., can I?
        timw4mail 5y ago
        Not yet, but the hardware capability is there.
        kllrnohj 5y ago
        Irrelevant. Your claim was specifically that the only reason to get a Pocket was for people "hung up on software vs. FPGA emulation". I pointed out multiple unique features of the Pocket and differentiating aspects vs. a random Linux emulator handheld.
- csulmone 5y ago
  Most people are buying it for the jailbreak that comes out a few weeks after launch which will allow custom cores as well as loading ROMs from the SD card...
  - marcocampos 5y ago
    In theory this would also work with a Everdrive?
    - csulmone 5y ago
      There is speculation that it will run quite a bit: https://old.reddit.com/r/AnalogueInc/comments/r86i0w/kevtris_has_confirmed_that_the_pocket_will_run/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AnalogueInc/comments/r86i0w/kevtris...
    - marlowe221 5y ago
      Yeah, no reason why it wouldn't.
    - prg318 5y ago
      Modern Vintage Gamer has confirmed that the Analogue Pocket works with both the GB everdrive and the GBA everdrive in his Analogue Pocket review [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew91PeRy-ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew91PeRy-ro
      - gambiting 5y ago
        It does, however the sleep functionality doesn't work when used with an Everdrive, as confirmed by DigitalFoundry.
- CJefferson 5y ago
  This device will almost certainly run ROMs -- all their devices do. They do this strange dodge where an "unofficial" hack is released which is clearly made by the original team.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    If not, the next item on the list for someone buying a device like this is probably a flash cart.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  As a retro gaming enthusiast, I kinda agree. FPGA emulation is still emulation and can suffer from inaccuracy just as much as software emulation does while having a lot more limitations. It can provide lower latencies and better power efficiencies, so it isn't worthless, but its a set of tradeoffs that don't make a lot of sense to me especially when you're using original media instead. Not to mention that used GB/GBC/GBA/GG are all available for a lot less than the Analogue Pocket if you're looking for an authentic experience, and if you're not then software emulation provides a lot more flexibility.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  It becomes clear pretty quickly that the biggest boosters do not actually understand what's going on with the FPGA emulators and believe all kinds of false things about both it and software emulators. Of course they perceive it to be much better but it feels like an audiophile effect going on to me. I will say that FPGA emulation is cool in some ways -- the power draw is less and you can achieve lower latency without some of the CPU-intensive methods that software emulators have pursued to do it. But most of the claims made about it do not stand up to scrutiny.
- gambiting 5y ago
  I think this article explains quite well what makes it so special: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-analogue-pocket-review-this-is-the-ultimate-retro-handheld https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-analo... I've ordered one today as soon as the orders opened, personally I'm incredibly excited about it - it will compliment my collection of classic gameboys really really well.
- hbn 5y ago
  > Who saved all their cartridges, but not their Gameboy? The point is to be better than a real Gameboy. Most of the original GBs don't have backlights, the original GBA in particular is INCREDIBLY hard to see unless you're sitting directly under a lamp. The speakers are usually pretty quiet. With the Gameboy Advance, if you want a frontlight/backlight you need to get an SP which I personally think is very uncomfortable for extended periods, and also doesn't have a headphone jack without a dongle (Nintendo was way ahead of Apple on that!). The GBA is backwards compatible with older Gameboy games, but the cartridges awkwardly stick out of the device an inch or 2, which make them awkward to transport around. Plus what others have mentioned, with the fact that it'll probably get hacked very soon to enable running any game from an SD card.
- honkycat 5y ago
  The carts and games are way more valuable than the consoles themselves, which were mass produced over many generations.
emodendroket 5y ago
It makes a certain kind of sense. The marketing for these products has always revolved around denigrating software emulators as total, inaccurate trash, which is completely unfair for a lot of reasons (byuu used to have a great blog post about it but I think it is gone). But of course, you've gotta convince people they "need" to spend hundreds of dollars on emulation when it's available for free otherwise. Turns out they took the message to heart.
- willis936 5y ago
  The Pocket is a unique product here. Analogue spent effort characterizing and reproducing the color and LCD response profile matrices of the target systems. Having 10x integer scaling allows for very detailed sub-pixel simulation. It's 2022 and we're getting sub-pixels in our sub-pixels. Big whoop, right? My 500 W PC with a 40" OLED panel can do that with ease. Well this can do it in a handheld with 7+ hours of battery.
  - friedman23 5y ago
    > Analogue spent effort characterizing and reproducing the color and LCD response profile matrices of the target systems Watch the linus tech tips video, the failed completely in this regard.
    - willis936 5y ago
      I watched the DF video. I don't watch LTT because, while the topics are often interesting and the resources and effort is usually there, the technical chops are not. Linus never developed a culture of putting heads down and making sure it's right with a thorough technical understanding. There are too many options for me to waste time on creators not creating well enough.
      - happy-dude 5y ago
        The LTT video[1] is also from their ShortCircuit channel, their unboxing/ first-impressions channel and should not be confused with their review content. I personally watched the 54 minute in-depth overview from My Life in Gaming[2], and it was clear that LTT/ShortCircuit overlooked or were incorrect in some parts of their initial impressions. EDIT: Specially in regards to the display, they spent no time at all to experiment with the 3 built-in GBA display modes; if they used the modes that replicated the original GBA or GBA SP (AGS-101) screens, they would've had a more color-equivalent appearance. MLiG in their video spent 10+ minutes on display modes alone. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6l5fAbcim0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6l5fAbcim0 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro9QQrTOnT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro9QQrTOnT0
JohnTHaller 5y ago
For Firefox users, enable browser.ui.zoom.force-user-scalable in about:config to enable zooming on user-hostile websites like this that try to disable zooming.
teawrecks 5y ago
I'm all for advocating for yourself during negotiation...but I don't like that it seems she gave them one set of reasons for why she turned the job down, and then turned around and gave the entire internet a different set of reasons.
zackbloom 5y ago
This reads like a case of 'all about me'-ism. It sounds like this person negotiated their salary, and then decided the company didn't value them _because_ the company agreed to raise it when asked. If your goal is to have people throw money at you which you don't ask for, you are going to have a tough time working. A company that's willing to double your salary when you point out the offer is low sounds pretty great to me. It then sounds like some other timelines were shifted, but rather than engaging with the company to learn what was going on, they silently invented more 'disrespect'. Building a product is hard. It's also expensive. Many many companies go out of business trying. The company being somewhat reasonable with money, and moving other deadlines around to accomplish their goals, is not evil in and of itself. It sounds like OP needs to learn how to engage constructively, communicate their concerns and questions, and empathize with the people they're working with a bit.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  They tried to stall the development of an open source GBA emulator. What's constructive about that? Where's the corporation's empathy?
  - zackbloom 5y ago
    We don't really know what happened here, because as far as I can tell the OP didn't actually engage with anyone to understand what was happening. It seems most likely that the company needed to focus more on one project than another for a little while. That is not the same as stalling something intentionally. It's hard for the company to have empathy if the person didn't elect to communicate their thoughts and feelings.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      > We don't really know what happened here First they said it wasn't going to impact the author's open source work. Then they started talking about delaying mGBA development until the product was released. Then they started talking about delaying mGBA development until many months after the product was released.
engineer_22 5y ago
The author could improve their communication skills. Specifically, without more details, it seems like their negotiation was weak. Good negotiation get's you an amount you're happy with. If you aren't happy then you shouldn't take the work, full stop. The story should have ended there.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  "Quit your job and do months of work for us for $10k" is not actually a position that anybody in their right mind would bother negotiating with.
  - engineer_22 5y ago
    I know. So let's assume (as a good faith actor would) that the counter party doesn't know what this undertaking really entails. It's a lot of work - so a better response might be something like "the amount of work we are talking about would take a good engineer approximately 4 months. let's start the negotation there" Maybe the author is new to business, but there's a lot to be desired in their communication. The screenshots of their communications only emphasize my take on it.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      He describes that offer coming after his estimate, so no. > As evidenced by the continuously slipping timeline in mGBA, I’m not very good at estimating timelines, so I gave a (very) rough estimate of 2 to 4 months. A reply affirming that that sounded reasonable, with an estimation of 300 to 400 hours of work, with a price tag of $10,000 was what I got back (assuming the project didn’t run seriously overtime). > $10,000.
      - sumtechguy 5y ago
        25-35 an hour for that sort of work is absurdly low. Especially for someone who has an established emulator in their resume. Then on top of that the author had an existing job in SV so they knew about what sort of hour range they should be getting. They doubled it but then bumped out the time from 4 to 6 months of work. They still have not shipped 2 years later. Now taking pre orders, which I personally skip because of the possibility of them not ever shipping. So it would have dragged on. Then the ask for delaying the emu itself until they shipped. If they had agreed to that they would have had to sit on a release for nearly 2 years at this point. There is quite the cadre of hucksters in that area of software/hardware. Also I would posit that the task for 300-400 hours was probably under estimated by a factor of at least 3x, probably more as it was 'part time'. I have seen this sort of thing before in the 'real' industry. You work for a hardware company and they see the software work as a 'extra' that you just bash something out and hope for the best. I have went out of my way to not work for hardware companies anymore. Many do not 'grok' software. That the hardware and software have to work together or they both fail. This sort of story is probably better on r/choosingbeggars.
willis936 5y ago
I'm interested in the Analogue Pocket (NDA lifted yesterday, preorders opener an hour ago, I put mine in), so I used the Agnolia HN search for stories related to this topic. This story had 0 comments and was far off the front page. I read the article, found it interesting, and upvoted it. That seems to have bumped it to the front page to snowball.
MerelyMortal 5y ago
Yesterday someone posted a review of the Analogue Pocket (only got 3 upvotes), and the review was very favorable. I like the idea of updated hardware and features in that form-factor, but was put off by the negatives. I would definitely buy a revision if they make one though. The author's treatment was not great though, so I hope the company does better in the future. Edit: here is the review: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29541242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29541242
xbar 5y ago
Thank you for sharing this important story.
donatj 5y ago
I think Analogue was more than reasonable here? They offered an entirely reasonable amount of money for anyone who didn't live in the valley (most people), then we're flexible enough to double it when it wasn't enough. They asked the person to sign a reasonable NDA that sounds much less restrictive than anything I've ever had to sign, and they were out? 6 months of non-competition on a direct competitor in a tech job is nothing.
- madengr 5y ago
  $25-$50 per hour for FPGA development is unreasonable anywhere. It should be at least $100.
- soneca 5y ago
  Doubling an offer is a red flag for me too. Blatant lowballing which, in my view as well, is disrespectful. This “non-competition for 6 months is nothing” is also a red flag, in my view, for the whole tech scene then. It doesn’t make it right, if common as you say, just make the norm wrong. And you left out of your comment the point that they were not fulfilling a few promises made even before the job had started. Which is a very big part of author’s reason.
- marlowe221 5y ago
  Non-competition for what??? The blog author is the developer of the mGBA emulator which is free and open source... There is no commercial competition for Analogue there.
  - defterGoose 5y ago
    In the sense that no one else is making money off of it, sure, but it is a factor which could impact their sales. This whole thing sounds more to me like one of Analogue's lawyers thought up a scheme to lock down that project for cheap under the guise of paying for some development work.
- willob33 5y ago
  Yeah. The author calls it out clearly; their COL being insane is on them. This feels like publicly processing having too much going on at one point. It’s hardly Analogues fault code hipsters must absolutely live in the most expensive urban area. Analogue is learning too. They don’t see daily life through everyone’s specific lense. Accept that if you want to be an ornate snowflake, it will take outsiders time to understand.
CyberRabbi 5y ago
The DM screen caps in this post are beyond damning. I didn’t realize Analogue’s business practices were this shady but I guess that is to be expected from all large corporations.
- beervirus 5y ago
  I didn't really see anything that unreasonable. What did you find "beyond damning"?
  - jagger27 5y ago
    How about the extreme lowball offer for a domain expert?
    - C19is20 5y ago
      If an 'expert' accepts an 'extreme lowball offer', are they really an expert?
      - Sebguer 5y ago
        Yes, because 'expert' doesn't indicate any level of financial competence, and experts often undervalue themselves and get exploited. What is the logical conclusion of your comment? Is expertise solely tied to the amount of compensation someone receives?
    - vernie 5y ago
      Oh whatEVER.
    - beervirus 5y ago
      Yes, negotiation. She asked for more money and got it. Welcome to earth.
athenot 5y ago
If anyone else finds themselves in this position, don't ever entertain fixed-price bids unless you're absolutely desperate for work. Instead, insist on an hourly rate (at approximately 1.5x - 2.5x market value). You're essentially an expert consultant brought in to address a very specific need that the company has yet doesn't want to invest in mastering themselves. Reframe a fixed price as "this will be X amount of hours". Invariably, nobody knows what kind of "gotchas" will be encountered during dev, and with fixed price, you're absorbing that risk yourself. As an hourly rate, that risk is borne by the client. This also applies to shifting scope; if the client shifts scope mid-way, they will bear that cost in an hourly setup instead of you.
- sph 5y ago
  Fixed prices are always an incredibly bad idea, unless the price is based on your (possibly unique) expertise rather than time involved. If you can bill $1M for a project because you're a worldwide expert, do so, otherwise bill by hour/day/week because you should already know that deadlines will be broken and the spec you are given when you sign has nothing to do with actually is required to ship the product.
vernie 5y ago
The Analogue backlash is here, baby! Love me some petty emulation scene bickering.
rumori 5y ago
I wonder if people here actually read the Discord chats. There's literally nothing there that warrants outrage. Speak up if you want different terms, the Analogue guy asked her multiple times for estimates/terms/cost and preferences. If someone is an expert in a field she/he should be able to communicate the cost clearly. It seems to me she just got upset at a lowball offer, let tension build up and then backed out. Not very professional and honestly quite misleading. Maybe Analogue should have known better but I don't blame them, this is regular business negotiations, you should not take it personally. Just say no and move on or name your price.

168 points by marlowe221 5y ago

I don't even understand the use-case for this device. Who saved all their cartridges, but not their Gameboy? You may as well get a cheaper and more versatile retro handheld. The idea that hardware emulation is somehow better than software emulation when the end results feel indistinguishable to the user seems like a pointless argument.

tekstar 5y ago
Not saying this to disagree with you, but there are companies manufacturing new cartridge copies of old NES/SNES (probably GB but I never checked) games for a fraction of some of the more expensive games. A friend of a friend of mine got a copy of Chrono Trigger for SNES from aliexpress. There are a few "tells" to know it's a copy (one of which is that it looks too new!), but it plays perfectly in his SNES. Your point still stands, but I just thought this was interesting that this market exists.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  That's more understandable, at least to my retrogaming enthusiast eyes. A reproduction cart is trying to look like the original cart and provide the sense of physical connection to the work[0] that ROMs just don't give you. The Analogue Pocket does not really resemble the devices it emulates, and while it can provide a means to play original carts, one can get original devices for the same or less cost that will also do so and be more authentic. Which is not to say there's no reason to own an Analog Pocket, it's a set of tradeoffs. I just personally find those trade offs make very little sense. [0] by which I mean the game, taken as a piece of artistic expression
klodolph 5y ago
The device supports several different systems, not just the various Game Boy iterations. Compared to original hardware, the promise is that it will have a better screen, a sleep mode, let you play on TV, load ROMs from computer (if you're a developer), etc. Compared to software, the promise is the form factor.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  There are a lot of software-emulation based consoles in this form factor that provide significantly more features than the Analogue Pocket. If authenticity is not your goal, I have to agree with parent that there is little reason to prefer FPGA in this space.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  You can easily buy an Anbernic device for less than one hundred dollars if you just want portable emulation, so it's not the form factor. It's specifically for people who are hung up on software emulation vs. FPGA-based emulation.
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    https://anbernic.com/products/anbernic-new-rg351v-retro-games-built-in-16g-rk3326-open-source-3-5-inch-640-480-handheld-game-console-emulator-for-ps1-kid-gift-1?variant=40986761330852 https://anbernic.com/products/anbernic-new-rg351v-retro-game... Seems to be $120 for equivalent form-factor, but still missing a large amount of what the Pocket supports (such as physical cartridges, link cable, and TV output), and with a worse display and a smaller battery. And it's not like the Pocket is that much more expensive at $220.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      On the other hand, I can't use the Analog Pocket to play PlayStation, Dreamcast, Genesis, etc., can I?
      - timw4mail 5y ago
        Not yet, but the hardware capability is there.
      - kllrnohj 5y ago
        Irrelevant. Your claim was specifically that the only reason to get a Pocket was for people "hung up on software vs. FPGA emulation". I pointed out multiple unique features of the Pocket and differentiating aspects vs. a random Linux emulator handheld.
csulmone 5y ago
Most people are buying it for the jailbreak that comes out a few weeks after launch which will allow custom cores as well as loading ROMs from the SD card...
- marcocampos 5y ago
  In theory this would also work with a Everdrive?
  - csulmone 5y ago
    There is speculation that it will run quite a bit: https://old.reddit.com/r/AnalogueInc/comments/r86i0w/kevtris_has_confirmed_that_the_pocket_will_run/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AnalogueInc/comments/r86i0w/kevtris...
  - marlowe221 5y ago
    Yeah, no reason why it wouldn't.
  - prg318 5y ago
    Modern Vintage Gamer has confirmed that the Analogue Pocket works with both the GB everdrive and the GBA everdrive in his Analogue Pocket review [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew91PeRy-ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew91PeRy-ro
    - gambiting 5y ago
      It does, however the sleep functionality doesn't work when used with an Everdrive, as confirmed by DigitalFoundry.
CJefferson 5y ago
This device will almost certainly run ROMs -- all their devices do. They do this strange dodge where an "unofficial" hack is released which is clearly made by the original team.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  If not, the next item on the list for someone buying a device like this is probably a flash cart.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
As a retro gaming enthusiast, I kinda agree. FPGA emulation is still emulation and can suffer from inaccuracy just as much as software emulation does while having a lot more limitations. It can provide lower latencies and better power efficiencies, so it isn't worthless, but its a set of tradeoffs that don't make a lot of sense to me especially when you're using original media instead. Not to mention that used GB/GBC/GBA/GG are all available for a lot less than the Analogue Pocket if you're looking for an authentic experience, and if you're not then software emulation provides a lot more flexibility.
emodendroket 5y ago
It becomes clear pretty quickly that the biggest boosters do not actually understand what's going on with the FPGA emulators and believe all kinds of false things about both it and software emulators. Of course they perceive it to be much better but it feels like an audiophile effect going on to me. I will say that FPGA emulation is cool in some ways -- the power draw is less and you can achieve lower latency without some of the CPU-intensive methods that software emulators have pursued to do it. But most of the claims made about it do not stand up to scrutiny.
gambiting 5y ago
I think this article explains quite well what makes it so special: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-analogue-pocket-review-this-is-the-ultimate-retro-handheld https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-analo... I've ordered one today as soon as the orders opened, personally I'm incredibly excited about it - it will compliment my collection of classic gameboys really really well.
hbn 5y ago
> Who saved all their cartridges, but not their Gameboy? The point is to be better than a real Gameboy. Most of the original GBs don't have backlights, the original GBA in particular is INCREDIBLY hard to see unless you're sitting directly under a lamp. The speakers are usually pretty quiet. With the Gameboy Advance, if you want a frontlight/backlight you need to get an SP which I personally think is very uncomfortable for extended periods, and also doesn't have a headphone jack without a dongle (Nintendo was way ahead of Apple on that!). The GBA is backwards compatible with older Gameboy games, but the cartridges awkwardly stick out of the device an inch or 2, which make them awkward to transport around. Plus what others have mentioned, with the fact that it'll probably get hacked very soon to enable running any game from an SD card.
honkycat 5y ago
The carts and games are way more valuable than the consoles themselves, which were mass produced over many generations.

emodendroket 5y ago

It makes a certain kind of sense. The marketing for these products has always revolved around denigrating software emulators as total, inaccurate trash, which is completely unfair for a lot of reasons (byuu used to have a great blog post about it but I think it is gone). But of course, you've gotta convince people they "need" to spend hundreds of dollars on emulation when it's available for free otherwise. Turns out they took the message to heart.

willis936 5y ago
The Pocket is a unique product here. Analogue spent effort characterizing and reproducing the color and LCD response profile matrices of the target systems. Having 10x integer scaling allows for very detailed sub-pixel simulation. It's 2022 and we're getting sub-pixels in our sub-pixels. Big whoop, right? My 500 W PC with a 40" OLED panel can do that with ease. Well this can do it in a handheld with 7+ hours of battery.
- friedman23 5y ago
  > Analogue spent effort characterizing and reproducing the color and LCD response profile matrices of the target systems Watch the linus tech tips video, the failed completely in this regard.
  - willis936 5y ago
    I watched the DF video. I don't watch LTT because, while the topics are often interesting and the resources and effort is usually there, the technical chops are not. Linus never developed a culture of putting heads down and making sure it's right with a thorough technical understanding. There are too many options for me to waste time on creators not creating well enough.
    - happy-dude 5y ago
      The LTT video[1] is also from their ShortCircuit channel, their unboxing/ first-impressions channel and should not be confused with their review content. I personally watched the 54 minute in-depth overview from My Life in Gaming[2], and it was clear that LTT/ShortCircuit overlooked or were incorrect in some parts of their initial impressions. EDIT: Specially in regards to the display, they spent no time at all to experiment with the 3 built-in GBA display modes; if they used the modes that replicated the original GBA or GBA SP (AGS-101) screens, they would've had a more color-equivalent appearance. MLiG in their video spent 10+ minutes on display modes alone. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6l5fAbcim0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6l5fAbcim0 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro9QQrTOnT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro9QQrTOnT0

JohnTHaller 5y ago

For Firefox users, enable browser.ui.zoom.force-user-scalable in about:config to enable zooming on user-hostile websites like this that try to disable zooming.

teawrecks 5y ago

I'm all for advocating for yourself during negotiation...but I don't like that it seems she gave them one set of reasons for why she turned the job down, and then turned around and gave the entire internet a different set of reasons.

zackbloom 5y ago

This reads like a case of 'all about me'-ism. It sounds like this person negotiated their salary, and then decided the company didn't value them _because_ the company agreed to raise it when asked. If your goal is to have people throw money at you which you don't ask for, you are going to have a tough time working. A company that's willing to double your salary when you point out the offer is low sounds pretty great to me. It then sounds like some other timelines were shifted, but rather than engaging with the company to learn what was going on, they silently invented more 'disrespect'. Building a product is hard. It's also expensive. Many many companies go out of business trying. The company being somewhat reasonable with money, and moving other deadlines around to accomplish their goals, is not evil in and of itself. It sounds like OP needs to learn how to engage constructively, communicate their concerns and questions, and empathize with the people they're working with a bit.

matheusmoreira 5y ago
They tried to stall the development of an open source GBA emulator. What's constructive about that? Where's the corporation's empathy?
- zackbloom 5y ago
  We don't really know what happened here, because as far as I can tell the OP didn't actually engage with anyone to understand what was happening. It seems most likely that the company needed to focus more on one project than another for a little while. That is not the same as stalling something intentionally. It's hard for the company to have empathy if the person didn't elect to communicate their thoughts and feelings.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    > We don't really know what happened here First they said it wasn't going to impact the author's open source work. Then they started talking about delaying mGBA development until the product was released. Then they started talking about delaying mGBA development until many months after the product was released.

engineer_22 5y ago

The author could improve their communication skills. Specifically, without more details, it seems like their negotiation was weak. Good negotiation get's you an amount you're happy with. If you aren't happy then you shouldn't take the work, full stop. The story should have ended there.

emodendroket 5y ago
"Quit your job and do months of work for us for $10k" is not actually a position that anybody in their right mind would bother negotiating with.
- engineer_22 5y ago
  I know. So let's assume (as a good faith actor would) that the counter party doesn't know what this undertaking really entails. It's a lot of work - so a better response might be something like "the amount of work we are talking about would take a good engineer approximately 4 months. let's start the negotation there" Maybe the author is new to business, but there's a lot to be desired in their communication. The screenshots of their communications only emphasize my take on it.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    He describes that offer coming after his estimate, so no. > As evidenced by the continuously slipping timeline in mGBA, I’m not very good at estimating timelines, so I gave a (very) rough estimate of 2 to 4 months. A reply affirming that that sounded reasonable, with an estimation of 300 to 400 hours of work, with a price tag of $10,000 was what I got back (assuming the project didn’t run seriously overtime). > $10,000.
    - sumtechguy 5y ago
      25-35 an hour for that sort of work is absurdly low. Especially for someone who has an established emulator in their resume. Then on top of that the author had an existing job in SV so they knew about what sort of hour range they should be getting. They doubled it but then bumped out the time from 4 to 6 months of work. They still have not shipped 2 years later. Now taking pre orders, which I personally skip because of the possibility of them not ever shipping. So it would have dragged on. Then the ask for delaying the emu itself until they shipped. If they had agreed to that they would have had to sit on a release for nearly 2 years at this point. There is quite the cadre of hucksters in that area of software/hardware. Also I would posit that the task for 300-400 hours was probably under estimated by a factor of at least 3x, probably more as it was 'part time'. I have seen this sort of thing before in the 'real' industry. You work for a hardware company and they see the software work as a 'extra' that you just bash something out and hope for the best. I have went out of my way to not work for hardware companies anymore. Many do not 'grok' software. That the hardware and software have to work together or they both fail. This sort of story is probably better on r/choosingbeggars.

willis936 5y ago

I'm interested in the Analogue Pocket (NDA lifted yesterday, preorders opener an hour ago, I put mine in), so I used the Agnolia HN search for stories related to this topic. This story had 0 comments and was far off the front page. I read the article, found it interesting, and upvoted it. That seems to have bumped it to the front page to snowball.

MerelyMortal 5y ago

Yesterday someone posted a review of the Analogue Pocket (only got 3 upvotes), and the review was very favorable. I like the idea of updated hardware and features in that form-factor, but was put off by the negatives. I would definitely buy a revision if they make one though. The author's treatment was not great though, so I hope the company does better in the future. Edit: here is the review: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29541242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29541242

xbar 5y ago

Thank you for sharing this important story.

donatj 5y ago

I think Analogue was more than reasonable here? They offered an entirely reasonable amount of money for anyone who didn't live in the valley (most people), then we're flexible enough to double it when it wasn't enough. They asked the person to sign a reasonable NDA that sounds much less restrictive than anything I've ever had to sign, and they were out? 6 months of non-competition on a direct competitor in a tech job is nothing.

madengr 5y ago
$25-$50 per hour for FPGA development is unreasonable anywhere. It should be at least $100.
soneca 5y ago
Doubling an offer is a red flag for me too. Blatant lowballing which, in my view as well, is disrespectful. This “non-competition for 6 months is nothing” is also a red flag, in my view, for the whole tech scene then. It doesn’t make it right, if common as you say, just make the norm wrong. And you left out of your comment the point that they were not fulfilling a few promises made even before the job had started. Which is a very big part of author’s reason.
marlowe221 5y ago
Non-competition for what??? The blog author is the developer of the mGBA emulator which is free and open source... There is no commercial competition for Analogue there.
- defterGoose 5y ago
  In the sense that no one else is making money off of it, sure, but it is a factor which could impact their sales. This whole thing sounds more to me like one of Analogue's lawyers thought up a scheme to lock down that project for cheap under the guise of paying for some development work.
willob33 5y ago
Yeah. The author calls it out clearly; their COL being insane is on them. This feels like publicly processing having too much going on at one point. It’s hardly Analogues fault code hipsters must absolutely live in the most expensive urban area. Analogue is learning too. They don’t see daily life through everyone’s specific lense. Accept that if you want to be an ornate snowflake, it will take outsiders time to understand.

CyberRabbi 5y ago

The DM screen caps in this post are beyond damning. I didn’t realize Analogue’s business practices were this shady but I guess that is to be expected from all large corporations.

beervirus 5y ago
I didn't really see anything that unreasonable. What did you find "beyond damning"?
- jagger27 5y ago
  How about the extreme lowball offer for a domain expert?
  - C19is20 5y ago
    If an 'expert' accepts an 'extreme lowball offer', are they really an expert?
    - Sebguer 5y ago
      Yes, because 'expert' doesn't indicate any level of financial competence, and experts often undervalue themselves and get exploited. What is the logical conclusion of your comment? Is expertise solely tied to the amount of compensation someone receives?
  - vernie 5y ago
    Oh whatEVER.
  - beervirus 5y ago
    Yes, negotiation. She asked for more money and got it. Welcome to earth.

athenot 5y ago

If anyone else finds themselves in this position, don't ever entertain fixed-price bids unless you're absolutely desperate for work. Instead, insist on an hourly rate (at approximately 1.5x - 2.5x market value). You're essentially an expert consultant brought in to address a very specific need that the company has yet doesn't want to invest in mastering themselves. Reframe a fixed price as "this will be X amount of hours". Invariably, nobody knows what kind of "gotchas" will be encountered during dev, and with fixed price, you're absorbing that risk yourself. As an hourly rate, that risk is borne by the client. This also applies to shifting scope; if the client shifts scope mid-way, they will bear that cost in an hourly setup instead of you.

sph 5y ago
Fixed prices are always an incredibly bad idea, unless the price is based on your (possibly unique) expertise rather than time involved. If you can bill $1M for a project because you're a worldwide expert, do so, otherwise bill by hour/day/week because you should already know that deadlines will be broken and the spec you are given when you sign has nothing to do with actually is required to ship the product.

vernie 5y ago

The Analogue backlash is here, baby! Love me some petty emulation scene bickering.

rumori 5y ago

I wonder if people here actually read the Discord chats. There's literally nothing there that warrants outrage. Speak up if you want different terms, the Analogue guy asked her multiple times for estimates/terms/cost and preferences. If someone is an expert in a field she/he should be able to communicate the cost clearly. It seems to me she just got upset at a lowball offer, let tension build up and then backed out. Not very professional and honestly quite misleading. Maybe Analogue should have known better but I don't blame them, this is regular business negotiations, you should not take it personally. Just say no and move on or name your price.