12 ms·
Clinical trial shows that the use of Vitamin D supplement improves sleep quality
- MavropaliasG 5y ago50,000 IUs every 15 days for 8 weeks. I wonder if it would have better effects if they were given 3-4k IUs every day
- rich_sasha 5y agoI keep reading about these “IU”s on HN, what on earth are they? Here in the uk you just buy “Vitamin D” and take one pill per day. No fine-tuning, unless you need specialised therapy perhaps.
- fighterpilot 5y agoInternational units. OTC quantities tend to be quite low, e.g 300-400 IUs, which aren't sufficient unless you're also getting daily sunlight not through a window. 1000-2000 IU is better - widely regarded as safe and no cases I've ever read of of hypervitaminosis, but it's above usual OTC doses. 4000+ daily is pushing it and I have read of cases of toxicity above that, but if you're struggling to get serum levels up then perhaps it's needed.
- Broken_Hippo 5y agoHonestly, OTC quantities vary depending on what is legal where you live. It has been 8-9 years since I lived in the US but nevertheless: At the time, you could buy 1000-2000iu strengths. I worked at a large pharmacy chain and stocked vitamins weekly. Then I moved to Norway. One strength is sold in most stores - 400iu per tablet. You might be able to buy stronger in the pharmacy, but I had to have a prescription for a higher strength when I had low levels. And to be fair, 2 of those store tablets keeps my levels high enough. So while 400 might be inadequate, 800 certainly isn't. Even without enough sunlight: I literally cannot get enough during the winter because the sun simply isn't strong enough when it happens to be up.
- fighterpilot 5y agoIt would depend on individual ability to metabolize D3 and amount of outdoors sunlight and the extent that local food is fortified with D3. So everyone's situation is unique. I'm confident that 2,000 IU daily is safe, though.
- giantg2 5y agoNot just fortified with vitamin D, but also the things that contain it naturally. Like seafood.
- Broken_Hippo 5y agoIt would depend on individual ability to metabolize D3 and amount of outdoors sunlight and the extent that local food is fortified with D3 The issue is that I fairly far north. You can miss the entirety of daylight in December if you work first shift at a factory (there will be a glow of twilight as you go home). The sunlight we do get in the winter is of poor quality. I'm not even above the arctic circle - it gets worse up there with no direct sunlight. I'm not sure of the extent of food being fortified: I can't see where they've added it to the milk (for example). I could be wrong about this last bit. There is a lot of fish in the diet, but nonetheless, they recommend the general population take some vitamin D in the wintertime.
- giantg2 5y agoIs it possible they sell a lower strength because the nordic diet tends to include a lot of seafood which has vitamin D? Or is it just a legal thing about selling weaker supplements?
- Broken_Hippo 5y agoI don't know the answer to this. If I were to guess, though, it is more about selling reasonable strengths to folks self-treating. First, supplements are generally recommended to everyone living here as part of being healthy, and truly stressed for immigrants. Even eating fish just isn't always enough, especially if you do not have the very fair skin that is common here. Second.. well, melatonin was prescription when I moved here.
- giantg2 5y agoOne thing to be careful about in selecting a supplement is the reputation/testing of the brand since they are loosely regulated. Specifically, how accurate and even are the doses in each batch and capsule? 50 micrograms is small quantity to measure accurately and consistently unless the right equipment and process is followed. There have been a number of supplements and manufacturers over the years who's doses from batch to batch or even capsule to capsule vary wildly.
- basisword 5y agoEh as someone also in the UK this seems false. If you check the packaging it will (in my experience) always give you the dose is IU. I know someone recently prescribed Vitamin D, and again, it was a specific dose. If you take it as part of a multi-vitamin dosage may not be made as clear. The NHS provides some guidance on doses here: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-...
- qayxc 5y agoSome figures to provide some perspective on the wild numbers thrown around in other comments. Recommended daily doses for adults for some vitamins are: • Vitamin A: 5,000 IU (upper limit of 10,000 IU) • Vitamin D: 600 IU • Vitamin E: 22.4 IU
- 1_player 5y agoHere in UK, like everywhere else, Vitamin D dosage is measured in IU. You probably never noticed it, or your pills have low-strength dosages (400 IU), which are quite common to find in pharmacies, and personally I don't even bother with those.
- matsemann 5y agoOn my bottle it just says "Vitamin D: 15 μg" on the bottle. Apparently 1 μg = 40 IU for vitamin D, but different per vitamin.
- stordoff 5y agoIUs are used in the UK - my prescription is given as "Colecalciferol 800unit capsules" and many supplements list it. Some only list the μg value though.
- fighterpilot 5y agoMegadosing D3 on the rare occasion is similar to gradually taking normal amounts as far as serum levels go. It's common to see in studies. You wanna be careful doing it without supervision obviously but I don't see why there would be a difference in a study if the hypothesis is that deficiency is causing the sleep problems. As far as the study goes, it was significant at a p 0.05 level so will wait for replication.
- da39a3ee 5y agop< 0.05 and the table of results shows p < 0.001
- kristofferc 5y agoFor people with sleep disorders.
- doitLP 5y agoSure but most people in the west have chronically low serum vitamin d levels. Proper D levels have a ton of other known beneficial effects including protecting against several types of cancer, proper calcium regulation, disease prevention etc etc. The current recommendation is keeping serum levels at least above 30, and more like 40-60. Many many people aren’t in that range. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32679784/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32679784/
- silicon2401 5y agodo you find out your serum levels through a regular blood test at the doctor, or is there something specific you need to request?
- dacur 5y agomy doc orders the test every year at my physical exam. i'm not sure it would normally be included in blood tests they order for your physical (like cholesterol), at least in the US.
- slothtrop 5y agoImproving sleep quality does not mean the same thing as alleviating symptoms of insomnia, exactly. It would appear vitamin D could improve quality in most people.
- dsego 5y agoAnyone experience calcium supplements affecting sleep, like causing a really deep heavy sleep?
- pbronez 5y agoNo, but that’s interesting. Doesn’t vitamin D have a relationship with Calcium?
- stooliepidgin 5y agoMy vitamin D level is only optimal when taking an average of 11000 IU / day (D3 + K2). It hasn't improved my sleep quality. As an example, I woke up at 3:30 am this morning and feel like I haven't slept at all.
- Lucasoato 5y agoMaybe your problem doesn't depend on Vitamin D. Have you tried contacting a doctor?
- stooliepidgin 5y agoYeap. Lots of specialists. Many areas are under investigation. One is activation of the There is a possibility of an autoimmune disease like lupus or MS causing dysautonomia. I also have inappropriate sinus tachycardia and hypertension without obvious causes. All roads point towards the autonomic nervous system.
- mirekrusin 5y agoAre you vaping by any chance?
- nolroz 5y agoWhat might this have to do with the topic? Does what you vape or how have an effect?
- mirekrusin 5y agoI think continous nicotine vaping easily induces insomia.
- rojeee 5y agoNot that I'm an expert in sleep but I would recommend assessing your cortisol levels - you can do a blood test and I think there are also saliva tests - if you are regularly waking up early. I'd also recommend reflecting on whether there are any chronic stressors in your life - sometimes these things affect you for so long you almost become unaware of them! I guess you alrready know this but 11000 IU is a massive dose of D3 and probably isn't healthy long term.
- brainwipe 5y agoBeing a blue-skinned ginger, I just need to have someone describe sunlight to me and I start producing Vit D. I also sleep like the dead.
- chartpath 5y agoThanks for the chuckle. Same here but mostly brown hair except red in the beard. I suspect it's not limited to red haired folks but that the gene occurs in people with relatively northern ancestors (Ireland, Scotland, Scandinavia). IIRC there were lots of red haired people in the continental Celtic population too. Would they have the same adaptation for less need of sunlight? Also makes me wonder how the Inuit manage.
- brainwipe 5y agoMy ancestors are all Scottish or Celtic going back as far as the point where people didn't move around much. I've heard red-beards often referred to politely as gingerchins. Which is oddly fun to say. Having worked for Scandinavian insurance companies, I can tell you that life insurance near to the arctic circle is much higher as people find it hard living without lots of light.
- wyldfire 5y agoI read somewhere that white skin may have evolved to help supplement the vitamin D required in Europe because the prevailing crops (cereal, grains) lacked vitamin D. EDIT yeah here is the reference [1]: > In the food-production theory, the cereal-rich diet of Neolithic farmers lacked vitamin D, so Europeans rapidly lost their dark-skin pigmentation only once they switched to agriculture, because it was only at that point that they had to synthesize vitamin D from the sun more readily. [1] https://www.livescience.com/42838-european-hunter-gatherer-genome-sequenced.html https://www.livescience.com/42838-european-hunter-gatherer-g...
- weavie 5y agoTotally anecdotal, but I went through a period of insomnia a few years age. It would take several hours to get to sleep. I realised that I had recently started taking vitamin D supplements just before bed and figured it might be connected. Changed to take the supplements in the morning and the insomnia went away.
- rojeee 5y agoApparently D3 inhibits production of melatonin. Can't remember where I read this so not a hugely useful comment but I promise I didn't just make it up! Anecodtally, I've also experienced similar issues taking 1000 IU D3 before bed and having trouble sleeping. I moved the dose to the morning and Boom!, good sleep. Edit: Here is the study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23665342/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23665342/ - only a single study but still interesting
- 300bps 5y agoI take 2,000 IU of Vitamin D3 nightly right before bed and have no trouble sleeping.
- spoonjim 5y agoThe difference is probably the people who fall asleep before it kicks in vs. those who normally take 15+ minutes to fall asleep and then can't.
- bserge 5y agoDamn, 15 minutes to fall asleep must be godly!
- rojeee 5y agoThat's a good point. There's also a bunch of other confounding factors which affect sleep. E.g. circadian rhythm, variance of sleep/wake times, how physically tired you are, how much recent REM/deep and whether there is a deficit, how stressed you are, screen usage before bed, eating close to bed time, exercise close to bedtime, etc... Maybe the Vitamin D3 taken close to bedtime is enough to tip some people over the edge to some kind of insomnia, given the presence of other melatonin inhibitors.
- m0zg 5y agoAnother one of these "eggs are good"/"eggs are bad" flip flops that happens every few years. Before this the "science" was that too much vitamin D disrupts sleep. In fact it seems to have disrupted mine. It's 4AM, and I can't sleep even after taking a MJ brownie. I take 2000IUs daily and my values are "normal" now. And yet I've been suffering from insomnia shortly after I started taking this supplement. Who do I believe now, my own body or someone at the NIH?
- nxpnsv 5y agoI think I've read that THC usage can affect long term sleep quality...
- m0zg 5y agoMaybe, but I only take it when it's particularly bad, and only started recently, so I'm pretty sure it's not THC. If it's between Ambien (benzodiazepine, impossible to get off of) and a non-addictive alternative, I pick the latter. Besides, I'm pretty sure there will be another study in 2-3 years stating the exact opposite.
- danparsonson 5y agoOr it could be that, as with many things concerning the human body, the reality is more complicated than a simple yes/no question.
- lifeplusplus 5y agotake them early in the morning, not at evening or night, try drinking milk as well.
- pibechorro 5y agoWake up at sunrise, go to bed at sunset. Anything else is going to cause problems.. or you are simply a night owl, which is ok. The key is to go outside, get some natural light and sun on your skin. Most of us reading this are vitamin D deficient year after year. Covid has had an advantage on anyone lacking proper vitamin levels.
- pizza234 5y ago> Wake up at sunrise, go to bed at sunset. Anything else is going to cause problems.. That's at least 10 hours of sleep per day, for a large part of the year. It's also no sleep at all, in some parts of the year, for some countries.
- kobbe 5y agoIt also also means sleep 24/7 in for example northern sweden during the winter
- konart 5y ago>Wake up at sunrise, go to bed at sunset. So 9am and 5pm respectfully for me I guess. That being said the key to it all for a relatively healthy person is mental and physical fatigue and lack of stress. On the other hand... my wife used to live near loading-unloading train station and worked at 2 jobs for some time. Takes her 10 minutes to fall asleep regardless.
- nine_k 5y agoGreat advice if you live, say, in Quito. Try doing the same in New York, to say nothing of places like Stockholm. Getting outside a bit is a great advice most everywhere, though. It's not always going to produce a lot of vitamin D, when you wear clothes mostly covering your skin, but it has other advantages.
- ecmascript 5y agoKinda hard to follow if you live in the nordic regions of the world like moi. At winter time it get really dark really fast and usually there is only sunlight for a couple of hours per day.
- tylerwhipple 5y agoIf anyone is struggling with sleep, I highly recommend episode 1-3 of the Huberman Lab podcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-XfCl-HpRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-XfCl-HpRM), it has literally changed my life. Dr. Huberman is a Neurobiologist at Stanford and explains the science of sleep vs just telling you to not look at bright screens at night. I struggled with sleeping for 20+ years, now I easily wake up early. The biggest game changer: Sunlight in your eyes within 30 minutes of waking up. Try morning walks for 1 week (without sunglasses) and your life will be changed.
- nisegami 5y ago>The biggest game changer: Sunlight in your eyes within 30 minutes of waking up. I don't think the sun rises for another hour after I wake up for work.
- paulintrognon 5y agoYou can emulate this effect via Dawn Simulators
- originalvichy 5y agoBuy a wake-up light alarm clock. Costs max. 50€ for a base version. Popular here in the Nordics for obvious reasons.
- acchow 5y agoThe suggestion is sunlight without sunglasses after waking up. That is extremely bright light hitting your eyes. Wake-up alarm clocks may be helping you, but not as a substitute for whatever is being suggested here.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mucholove 5y agoSun. One of requirements for rent—must have east/south-east facing window.
- da39a3ee 5y agoHas anyone here managed to reduce the frequency of waking to pee at night (e.g. by controlling liquid intake)? For me it’s 2 times/ night with difficulty going back to sleep so fairly huge disturbance.
- sporklpony 5y agoCouple of (fairly obvious) things that have helped me: - don't drink liquid before going to bed - use the restroom before going to bed Often (at least for me) the feeling of needing to pee is greater than the actual need to pee. Realizing this, it's easier to hold it in until morning.
- Tom4hawk 5y agoIf you regularly have to wake up to pee at night you might have some other issues (like diabetes). You should visit a doctor.
- lopis 5y agoI always drink a glass of water before sleeping and never have to pee before morning. I'm not sure that's normal. How how are you drinking right before going to bed?
- bserge 5y agoYeah, 1-2 hours of cycling (guess any cardio works) in the evening, then don't eat anything besides a glass of water/juice/milk/liquid. I also pee a lot at night, otherwise.
- giantg2 5y agoEliminate diuretics at least after lunch, like caffeine and alcohol. I would also recommend drinking more water throughout the day (vs other drinks). Reducing sugary consumption at least after lunch can also help. Physical activity can also help. My theory is that it can help sitting at a computer all day can sometimes cause me to retain fluid and that it's the retained fluid that is being processed when lying flat. If you notice your calves/feet/etc being slightly swollen this could be a sign.
- jjice 5y ago
- ilaksh 5y agoI actually think they may need to use a different kind of glass or something in the future because people spend so much time indoors that they aren't getting exposed to the UV that induces the D3 production or whatever. And normal glass blocks it.
- FrankyHollywood 5y agoI needed better sleeping and tried various things. In the end I stopped drinking coffee and tea. For me its now just hot or cold water, sometimes a herbal tea, and an occasional beer or orange juice. First caffeine-free weekend I had terrible headaches, than came weeks of strong urges (I felt I was an addict). In these weeks I just fell asleep on the couch or even at my desk at work. I slept a lot these weeks, during the day, early in the evening, like my body had catching up to do. Now I'm fine, I sleep like a baby. I feel really good and have strong concentration. On moments I have a 'coffee urge' I take a little walk outside, for 10-20minutes. My colleagues know by now, I'm the guy who goes out once or twice a day for a little walk... Try it for a few months!
- kemitche 5y agoI can +1 this. I'm on caffeine now, but once a year or so I will "detox" from it to reset for a few months. The first days/weeks are exactly like you said. The only difference is that after a month or so, I go back to coffee - just at a greatly reduced volume. That first cup is absolutely heavenly.
- slothtrop 5y agoReducing total caffeine intake has improved my sleep quality, but I find there are diminishing returns to making it nil consumption. My sweet spot is a single small cup of tea or coffee in the morning. Research suggests that some trace amounts of caffeine can remain in your system many hours.
- gedy 5y agoSame here, I ironically found I was more tense & jittery after no caffeine for a year. Found one coffee or tea a day made me feel much more relaxed at end of day.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y agoAnother anecdote: whenever I go off coffee I just feel a bit more dumb, and I don't like losing an easy mechanism to quickly boost my energy levels. The first few weeks without caffeine are rough, then I just turn into a more boring version of myself: I go to bed early, have consistent energy levels throughout the day, and I'm a little less intelligent. I don't really want my energy levels smoothed out throughout the day: getting out of the gate quickly in the morning and getting ahead of my goals for the day is far more important to me, and having a few hours each day where I'm really "on" is better than my brain being a little sluggish forever. I don't personally have issues sleeping through the night though. (But with caffeine I do shift my sleep a bit later). Cutting caffeine does seem to be a reasonable place to start for people who are having sleep issues, or anxiety, but for me I've decided the pros vastly outweigh the cons.
- rhipitr 5y agoI had been living in an area that’s particularly gloomy in the later fall and winter months. My wife had not been feeling great. At her regular checkup, my wife was prescribed ergocalciferol for a rather pronounced vitamin D deficiency. She said she felt like a new person after taking it.
- ipunchghosts 5y agoPetersburg's Sleep Index is a typo. Should be pittsburgh.
- Karawebnetwork 5y agoVitamin D is actually a hormone rather than a vitamin. I can't put enough emphasis on how important it is not to be lacking in Vitamin D.
- staplung 5y agoThe link doesn’t seem to specify which variant of D. Did I miss that part? Discussion here seems to be mostly around D3.
- arkj 5y ago> At the end of the study, the data on 89 subjects (44 in intervention group and 45 people in placebo group) were examined. And in the conclusion they add > Based on the results of the present study, at the end of the study sleep score (PSQI) reduced significantly in vitamin recipients as compared with placebo recipients (P < 0.05). This difference was significant even after modifying confounding variables (P < 0.05). It’s 44 vs 45 why don’t they use the simple language they started with. It would have been great if they also said how many people felt better by placebo alone.
- blunte 5y agoWhere was this study done? Was it done in a place with mostly sunny days, or mostly cloudy and dark? In the location where this study was done, what kind of lives to these people lead? Do people living in more relaxed, sunny, quiet, dark-at-night environments sleep better than people who live in cities with constant street noise, much less direct sunlight, and more light pollution at night?
- omarhaneef 5y agoCan anyone find the effect size in this study? When it is missing, I suspect that it is small, and that in turn leads me to suspect p-hacking.
- nialse 5y agoMean and standard deviation for PSQI at the end of the study. Vitamin D group: 6.75 (2.97) Placebo group: 9.73 (3.04) Cohen's D: 0.99 (>0.8 is regarded a large effect size) Side note: The translation "Petersburg’s Sleep Index" instead of "Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index" just cracks me up though! =)
- omarhaneef 5y agoThanks. That's pretty compelling.
- VEEG889 5y agoMany people with MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS, myself included, have found success with worldherbs clinic MS HERBAL FORMULA. And when you need great HERBAL FORMULA side effect free recipes, worldherbs clinic has the best! Life is better when you are healthy, Please put your health first.