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Ford Hires Away Executive Leading Apple’s Car Project
- beefman 5y agohttps://archive.is/7i2DM https://archive.is/7i2DM
- stcredzero 5y agoA lot of people who follow what's been happening with EVs think that certain legacy auto brands will evolve to survive as design and marketing organizations. (EDIT: Of EVs, specifically.) These companies will put their design on top of a skateboard/chassis designed and manufactured by another EV company, like Tesla. If brands don't survive as a separate (EDIT: EV) company, then they could also do this as a division of a parent auto company. This will probably happen to brands like Ferrari, Maserati, and Lamborghini. Apple stands a good chance of breaking into that evolved form of the business. They are, after all, very good at marketing and design.
- baktubi 5y agoMy boobs will wiggle to-and-friggle. Wiggle they will wiggle. Electric vehicle jiggle. Wiggle the electric port bzzp. Downvote the shock goes, by the ever-too, over-too serious electric vehicle bzzps.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- BoorishBears 5y agoIt's hilarious reading comments like this. The car companies that have the supply chains, the know-how, and now the motivation to electrify (the key component previously missing), will somehow defer to Tesla to build their platforms. If Tesla can figure out how to turn their market cap larger than every other automaker into basic spare parts availability, that will be a starting point. - Also FYI, 2 out of 3 luxury manufacturers you mentioned already do that with established auto manufacturers The Maserati Ghibli platform can trace its roots to the Chrysler LX platform like most FCA products and is intermixed with Chrysler/Jeep parts Lamborghinis share platforms with various Audis Only Ferrari is really putting out really independent platforms
- matthewdgreen 5y agoI don’t know what supply chains the legacy automakers have, but it sure feels like they’re having trouble sourcing efficient batteries.
- BoorishBears 5y agoAre they? Or are they making cars that are less efficient, regardless of battery tech? The Taycan for example, is clearly not focused on being as efficient as possible. It's an opulent car with all the heavy soundproofing and insulation people buying these types of cars expect. The Mach E is probably the most normal looking EV suv, and it's Cd ends up being the highest of the bunch despite not even having door handles. I don't think efficiency is the big win people are acting like it is. Just like there are gas guzzlers and econoboxes that get miles and miles per gallon, there will be more or less efficient EVs. Efficiency by itself is not going to be a differentiator forever because past a certain range figure, most people's needs are met. From there "splurging" an extra 5 cents per mile to have their preferred car is not a problem
- jsight 5y agoI don't know why he used the term "efficient batteries". I don't really know what that means and basically agree with you. Ford doesn't have great driving efficiency, but it doesn't matter as they've solved for that by using a really big battery. However, they seem to be severely limited in production capacity due to the limited number of cells available. Right now, everyone other than Tesla seems to be hitting that issue, and Tesla is at least a year ahead. More if they can actually get the 4680 lines running on schedule, but that's a big if.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- matthewdgreen 5y agoThere is enough battery capacity to build plenty of Ford Mach-E's. But Ford can't afford to spend $100,000 to manufacture a $50K car, nor can they use recycled laptop batteries that make the car 1000lbs heavier. The problem here is sourcing batteries that are weight- and cost-efficient, and Tesla has been investing heavily in the production of such batteries.
- mhh__ 5y agoWhat's in it for Ferrari? Ferrari ship a few thousand cars a year, 10k tops, and much smaller companies already make electric supercars.
- Dumblydorr 5y agoTesla isn't doing that and afaik has no plans to do so. They would much rather put their own fully integrated stack right onto their own skateboard and make the full profit. Elon is a huge fan of vertical integration, why would he change to help his competitors? Skateboards simply aren't that hard to make, the legacy makers will have them within a decade. They won't be as efficient or have large capacity as Tesla, because meanwhile Tesla will keep building on it's technical lead and stay on top for at least a few years, in my estimation. They'll potentially be lapped by miraculous new battery designs, but with current batteries? Who can top Tesla in the 2020s?
- mikepurvis 5y agoI'm also a bit skeptical about the skateboard hype. Like, wasn't this what the legacy auto manufacturers learned in the 90s as competition ramped up from Asia, that it really wasn't worth the diversion of having half a dozen barely-differentiated cars on the same "platform" being badged and marketed in different ways (think Taurus/Sable/Continental, etc). Basically, all the specs that matter will be coming from the skateboard as far as performance, battery life, handling, and so on. What incentive is there to try to build a new box when someone else is making the chocolates?
- darkwater 5y agoKia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 have the same skateboard (today I learnt this naming), are obviusly 2 similar cars but have enough differences on the aestethic side to interest different people. External look is still a thing when choosing a car (right after the brand).
- quartesixte 5y agoExternal look can also affect drive handling (weight distribution, aero, general bulk/length concerns for city streets/parking)!
- oblio 5y ago> Like, wasn't this what the legacy auto manufacturers learned in the 90s as competition ramped up from Asia, that it really wasn't worth the diversion of having half a dozen barely-differentiated cars on the same "platform" being badged and marketed in different ways (think Taurus/Sable/Continental, etc). Volkswagen is a top 3 auto manufacturer and was top 1 recently. Volkswagen, Skoda, Seat, Audi go exactly against what you're saying.
- NortySpock 5y agoAlso, sort of related: earliest concepts I've heard of for the Skateboard model of EVs was ~2002 by GM. https://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2002-10/hy-wire-act/ https://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2002-10/hy-wire-act/ https://books.google.com/books?id=aQAAAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA49&dq=%22popular%20science%22%20%22skateboard%22%20%22garage%22%20%22electric%22&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q=%22popular%20science%22%20%22skateboard%22%20%22garage%22%20%22electric%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=aQAAAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA49&dq=%...
- bydo 5y agoFerarri and Maserati are already part of Fiat. Lamborghini is owned by Volkswagen. Edit: My mistake, Maserati is owned by Stellantis, which is the parent company of Fiat's parent company, and Ferrari went independent in 2015. So this does still apply to Ferrari.
- stcredzero 5y agoIf brands don't survive as a separate company, then they could also do this as a division of a parent auto company.
- Someone 5y agoI think it’s more that more and more brands will become just that: brands owned by a much larger group. There’s a lot of consolidation going on in the market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_Group already had quite a few brands, but merged with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Chrysler_Automobiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Chrysler_Automobiles to form https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellantis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellantis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group similarly, has quite a few brands. Ferrari at sometime was part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Chrysler_Automobiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Chrysler_Automobiles, the predecessor of PSA group. Maserati already is part of a larger group. It is owned by Stellantis. Lamborghini is owned by Audi, which is owned by Volkswagen.
- reducesuffering 5y agoOh man, Stellantis... It's like all the most soon-to-be-obsolete automakers decided to band together to form a last ditch effort in the soon-to-be-EV world but only made it easier to short their collective downfall. Chrysler really never even close to recovered from 2008.
- csmeder 5y agoThe sale of Volvo to Geely blows my mind in particular when you realize $1.5b is only 30,000 BTC. Geely bought Volvo for the cost of 6 pizzas [1]. [1] Ford paid $6.5 billion for Volvo in 1999, ten years later, in 2010 10,000 Bitcoins was worth 2 large pizzas, and 8 years later in 2018 Ford sold Volvo to Chinese carmaker Geely for $1.5 billion (30,000 BTC by today's valuation).
- gorbypark 5y agoI know it’ll probably never happen but I always thought it would be cool if there was an industry standard (or probably a few for different wheel bases) skateboard to cab interface/mounting points so that one could buy a skateboard from a choice of manufacturers and then pick a cab from another. I’m guessing the skateboard manufacturers would eventually consolidate into just a few, but cab makers could range from cheaper imports all the way up to super high end custom built ones. The ability to upgrade either a skateboard or cab independently from each other would be pretty sweet, too.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- xt00 5y agoWould seem likely this is more like "Apple executive finally realizes apple doesn't really want to build a car, so leaves.."
- rsj_hn 5y agoWhy on earth would Apple want to build a car? Apple wants to make money off of cars by selling devices and software that integrate with cars -- look at the hugely successful CarPlay -- but Apple is not going to manufacture their own cars.
- nojito 5y agoWhy not? A car is basically a computer on wheels theses days.
- colejohnson66 5y agoDespite being completely “drive by wire”, (modern) cars are not just “computers on wheels”. For starters: cars have moving parts; Your phone doesn’t (or does but barely). They’re complex beasts.
- while1fork 5y agoI don't understand why Apple would want to enter the automotive manufacturing business. It's so far-afield from computers, mobile screens, and accessories. TVs, home automation, VR glasses, smart home gym, and audio equipment seem much closer to the product mix than something random like a lawnmower, car, or business jet.
- sdze 5y agoAnd truly I can’t imagine that they earn that kind of money with cars they earn with iPhones and Watches. Cars are capital intensive products. Also they would need something that really distinguishes them from competitors! Can they compete with the heritage and engineering of say Mercedes-Benz? Why would they be able to offer a better product? Taking into consideration that they lack dealer ships and service center.
- while1fork 5y agoApple Car seems like an Apple Albatross with an RMS Titanic clamped to each leg. They should've just taken up commercializable fusion power with the kind of money needed to pull off a new car. They could start by improving light switches, power outlets, and record players. Or even microwaves.
- justinlink 5y agoI agree -- aside from passenger airplane manufacturing I can't imagine a more difficult industry to just jump into without really good reason. If they want to make an "Apple" car with some bells and whistles on it, why not take an existing vehicle and enhance it. See what happens with that at least. I'm thinking like Shelby did with Mustangs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_Mustang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_Mustang
- Digory 5y agoStrong "JC Penney hires away Ron Johnson from Apple's retail project" vibes.
- heavyset_go 5y agoFord is responsible for manufacturing the best-selling vehicles in the US, and has been for years.
- snarf21 5y agoAdditionally, they are putting out some really impressive EV designs and plans. I think Ford has an even stronger future.
- mavhc 5y agoHow many EVs has Ford sold so far? Ford has delivered a total of 12,975 electric vehicles year-to-date as of fiscal 2Q 2021, or the period ended on June 30, 2021. Can non Tesla car companies make enough EVs?
- csmeder 5y agoThat's one take. Here is another: "$F holding the Feb 1 1994 resistance as support to the penny so far. Legacy auto gonna need some catalysts as chip shortage will be prolonged and billions in capital needed for EV development." https://twitter.com/JoTrader4/status/1434945782323589123 https://twitter.com/JoTrader4/status/1434945782323589123
- michelb 5y agoI keep thinking that the ‘car’ project is just one of apple’s many experiments to find/figure out a product but this one is hard to keep invisible because they need more physical space for it. So nobody really knows what it is but you get these glimpses. It must be extremely frustrating that they can’t contain it as they did with the smaller hardware.
- MontyCarloHall 5y agoSurely they could’ve done a better job? Test any hardware that cannot be concealed in a secret underground garage, and hardware that can be concealed (e.g. self-driving systems) in cars that look like their streetview vans, which are already bristling with sensors.
- gtirloni 5y agoHow's it frustrating to you personally? I don't get it.
- usui 5y agoThe person isn't saying it's personally frustrating. The person is saying that it must be frustrating for the people in charge or involved with the project, such as an executive who directs the project but then gets poached by Ford.
- gtirloni 5y agoOh, I just re-read the comment and I get it now ("it must be..."). Thanks, and sorry.
- yellow_lead 5y agoIs it really because of the physical size of the car? I rather think they're unable to keep it secret because of the large amounts of specialized hiring, supply chain talks, etc
- ABeeSea 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- notadoc 5y agoI'm skeptical of the Apple Car project as a casual observer, are the employees too?
- vsskanth 5y agoJust wondering if the exec move is signalling Apple isn't planning on bringing the car to production ? I'm in the automotive field and I came across some of their job postings, and based on the JD it looked to me like they were pretty serious about bringing something to market. Me and a bunch of my friends and colleagues were contacted by recruiters and it seemed like they wanted people with experience bringing a car to production.
- lifeisstillgood 5y agoThis is a good point (you seem downvoted). I am sure Apple is serious. But I suspect Ford is more serious. Self-driving and electric are existential issues for Ford and everything will be thrown at it. Has Tim Cook indicated in a chat at the bar that maybe Apple is not so serious? I don't know. Has the exec looked at Apple and thought "I don't know how to turn you into a car culture?" Or maybe its all about the Benjamins. There are a lot of issues at play - I am not sure which I would go for - a possible side-player at the worlds best funded company, or a saviour figure at a company that will have to live on subsidies for a decade? Career choices can be weird
- vsskanth 5y agoFrom the beginning, Ford can't afford to not be serious since it's literally their core business. However, something must have changed to convince Doug Fields to move. One can only speculate but I guess it would be revealed later.
- machiaweliczny 5y agogeohotz had interesting perspective that Apple car might have hard time reaching mass luxury market that they are know of. I think they might go for AR instead.
- bane 5y agoI'm on the side of things where I think Apple realized that electric cars are sorta giant iPhones on wheels and thought they could move into the market if there wasn't already a strong leader. This all made sense when it was clear the technology was there and Tesla wasn't a sure thing, so there was ample competitive room to elbow into. When Tesla survived and thrived I believe this caused Apple to take a step back and watch how the market plays out for a bit before committing...trying to find out of there really was a play there. In addition, Tim Cook is a supply-chain guy, and the supply chain for electric vehicles is still very immature and extremely dependent on technology that Apple doesn't really have expertise in (yet), batteries. There's just not a good selection of suppliers for batteries that can produce at Apple's volume needs, and at car scale.
- amelius 5y ago> electric cars are sorta giant iPhones on wheels Except cars can't compete for your attention. Your eyes must be on the road.
- aksss 5y ago>sorta giant iphones on wheels I think they're giant smart TVs on wheels. Apple is right in complimenting the primary function of the vehicle with an offboard services solution, which replaces the crappy built-in 'smart' platform.
- azinman2 5y ago> Farley has said Ford’s future depends not on selling cars one at a time, but on selling features to owners to constantly update their cars like they do their phones. I really disagree with this on so many levels, and I believe the market will ultimately reject it too. When you’re spending tens of thousands on a car, the last thing you want is some optional monthly fee for seat warmers and navigation features. This seems to be driven simply by the desire to have a monthly income versus what consumers actually want.
- stingrae 5y agothis sounds like having to go to the dealership and paying for them to give you updated maps for your built-in GPS, a terrible UX.
- jabo 5y agoWhat if upgrades were done over the air, so you didn’t have to go to a dealership. And the base cost of the vehicle comes down, now that there’s a recurring revenue component? Would that change your mind?
- yellow_postit 5y agoVolkswagen has a system like this in production already with CarNet with subscription pricing for things like better voice control, tracking, and maps. https://carnet.vw.com/#/plan-pricing https://carnet.vw.com/#/plan-pricing
- aksss 5y agoI think Ford's system circa 2012/2013 did OTA updates, but the problem is that they stopped making updates. Further, there was no modularity to the hardware running the nav/entertainment/app platform, so the hardware got outclassed very quickly for apps anyway, with no ability to swap in a more powerful system. Which is ironic, because in the 2012 Fords, it's literally just a PC behind your dash, USB ports, hard drive, and all running Windows. It sucks that people are compelled to upgrade a $50k vehicle for lack of $1000 in PC components. I can understand why that would be a business model, but I really think the vehicle is like a smart TV - nobody should use the junky built-in "smart" platform, but instead use platforms like CarPlay and Auto to bridge/mirror their modular phone capabilities into the vehicle. Vehicles in time just need something like the OBD standard for connecting external processing/info platforms. CarPlay and Auto are steps in the right direction, but.. more abstraction/standardization/modularity please.
- smas35427 5y agoCan some here talk about Ulrich taking his place at Apple and possible link between Apple and Canoo?
- ryzvonusef 5y agoIs Doug Field the "Jim Keller" of the EV world?