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Head of Danish intelligence suspended after whistleblowers hand over information
- Svip 6y agoThe watchdog, the article refers to, Tilsynet med Efterretningstjenesterne, was created on 1 January 2014 as a result of the Snowden leaks in 2013. It is government run, but completely independent from the intelligence agencies and members are appointed by a committee in parliament (except the chairman, who must be a judge on the supreme court).
- macmac 6y agoHigh Court judge, not that it makes a huge difference.
- erk__ 6y agoThe high Court is the supreme court in Denmark so the difference is only in the name.
- fit2rule 6y agoThat is actually pretty astonishing .. so it was set up to catch the cabalist spy empire that Snowden warned about, and it seems it has snared something .. one can only hope this will be prosecuted in the public sphere.
- erk__ 6y agoThere is of course much they cannot talk about because it is classified, but they release a report each year the one up to 2018 are available in English here https://www.tet.dk/redegorelser/?lang=en https://www.tet.dk/redegorelser/?lang=en
- demygale 6y agoCould you imagine a government agency spying on its own citizens? In America that would be illegal and unconstitutional. We would have to immediately defund that agency.
- simlevesque 6y agois this a joke ? ever heard of the NSA ?
- aksss 6y ago“Kids detect sarcasm at about age 6, but don’t begin to see the intended humour until around age 10,” - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070803141811.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070803141811.h...
- guerrilla 6y ago> Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture stating that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied. The original statement, by Nathan Poe, read: > Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article.
- jessaustin 6y agoHow old was Nathan Poe when he wrote that?
- aksss 6y ago;)
- gruez 6y ago>Could you imagine a government agency spying on its own citizens? In America that would be illegal and unconstitutional. I thought that was the case in most countries, so they get around it by getting their buddies to do it for them, hence five-eyes (or n-eyes).
- throw_this_one 6y ago
- motohagiography 6y agoWhen I read about western intelligence agencies, one can't help but look at the last decade or so and ask, what was it they said their job was again, specifically?
- Rumperuu 6y agoI was surprised to find reading a book called Intelligence in an Insecure World[0] that the general consensus amongst intelligence studies scholars is apparently that there's no empirical evidence for the effectiveness of intelligence work and there probably never will be (although I read the book some time ago so I might be misremembering it). [0] https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Intelligence+in+An+Insecure+World%2C+3rd+Edition-p-9781509525195 https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Intelligence+in+An+Insecure+Worl...
- triceratops 6y agoFor those of us who haven't read the book, could you summarize please? Anecdotally that claim seems untrue. Intelligence services have had a tangible effect on world history.[1][2][3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture
- scythe 6y ago> Intelligence services have had a tangible effect on world history.[1][2][3] You forgot the most important: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway >Military historian John Keegan called it "the most stunning and decisive blow in the history of naval warfare",[9] [...] Most significantly, American cryptographers were able to determine the date and location of the planned attack, enabling the forewarned U.S. Navy to prepare its own ambush.
- triceratops 6y ago
- hansjorg 6y ago> According to local media, the Defence Intelligence Service is accused of failing to investigate allegations of espionage in the armed services. It has also been accused of obtaining and passing on information about Danish citizens. The secret intelligence services in your country are not working for you or your safety, and this is not a secret. If you believe so you have not been following the news the last thirty years (before that they had a scape goat for their behaviour).
- oh_sigh 6y agoI think it would be possible for intelligence services to obtain and pass on information about a citizen while still trying to work for the overall safety of the country.
- gostsamo 6y agoNope, it is not their job. If a citizen is accused in a crime, there are other institutions tasked with the investigation. Sometimes this is the counterintelligence, sometimes this is the police. However, breaking the law and actively avoiding legal supervision is a crime which makes them criminals.
- oh_sigh 6y agoI'd imagine intelligence would be about crimes yet to take place, ie people planning a terrorist attack (is that a crime in itself?)
- tpmx 6y agoI'd take these allegations with several grains of salt. This smells (stinks) of politics.
- cstpdk 6y agoIt shouldn't. There's no political gain for any of the major parties. It also happens after several, relatively minor, cases of corruption and nepotism in the military and intelligence services (former high-ranking official just got 3months prison today). It stinks mostly of a corruption and several decades of lack of proper oversight
- tpmx 6y agoWhat kind of targets is he accused of targetting?
- gostsamo 6y agoAre there "kinds" that are not covered by the law and are more okay to have their rights abused?
- tpmx 6y agoI have no idea (I'm Swedish, not Danish) what all of this is about. That's why I'm asking. I don't like what you're implying.
- gostsamo 6y agoWell, the article says that they are accused of spying on danish citizens and providing the results to foreign entities without authorization or legal base. You ask what were the targets implying that it matters and some "targets" are not as equal as others. Sorry if I've gotten you wrong.
- tpmx 6y ago
- Pick-A-Hill2019 6y agoI applaud the Danish Government and I wish other countries politicians would have the courage to respect the origins of their mandate to govern. And before this descends in to ‘what-about-isms’ I can name at least 5 countries whose over-sight bodies should pay attention. "The fact that the head of the Danish Military Intelligence Service is a willing participant in circumventing the agency tasked with holding his own intelligence service legally accountable is mind-blowing and must be deeply concerning to the minister."
- ThinkBeat 6y agoThe usual way this works, is that there is noise. Some smack on the hand, maybe a few sacrices. Noise goes away. Military Intelligence goes back to doing whatever they like with a shared understanding from those in power (yet not expressed as such).
- nabla9 6y agoIntelligence agencies in Nordic countries are really small, just few hundreds people per agency and limited budgets. Even if they go rouge, what they can do is limited. Number of people in the field is even smaller. This creates problems of it's own because their counterparts quickly learn to recognize their faces. For comparison, FBI Counterintelligence Division alone has 1-2 people per 10,000 Americans. Add different intelligence and surveillance agencies under DHS and others to that list and it's easy to see that the US has insane amount of domestic surveillance manpower per capita.
- gostsamo 6y agoThe US is invading, bombing or financing a civil war in a random country every few years, while Denmark are at the corner of the map. Are you going to compare the threat models of the two?
- nabla9 6y agoThereat model to their own citizens, yes.
- wojciii 6y agoYeah .. but we (I'm Danish by citizenship) don't apologize because our newspaper prints satirical drawings of some prophet. The threat model is different. No terrorist attacks of serious kind were performed as of yet but plans were found for terrorist attacks in Copenhagen. Something akin to what happened in Germany. The threat seem real.
- gostsamo 6y agoDid the police have to break the law to stop those attacks? Because the question is not if a country should have a counterintelligence service, but what legal tools it should be given, whether it should be under judicial control when using them, and how to control it so that it does not abuse the powers (both legal and physical) it is given.
- 6y ago
- contingencies 6y agoLet's start a global program for shifting intelligence funding to schools. Education is a better defense than mass surveillance.
- throw_this_one 6y agoYeah I’m sure when the West abdicates intelligence funding and increases education, the anti-west axis forming/formed will come in by the campfire and sing kumbaya with you.
- booboolayla 6y agoComments like the one you're replying to always make me think - is a popular democracy truly the way to go? If that truly is the case, then our education needs to become the polar opposite of what it is today, because today it is obviously churning out angry ignoramuses willing to criticize their own country into oblivion, as well as happily vote to undermine their own country's security.
- notsureaboutpg 6y agoA lot of the anti-West axis grievances were caused by the intelligence agencies. The Iranian passenger plane downed by bad US intelligence. The Iraq War started on bad intelligence. I'm sure there are others... Maybe don't abdicate intelligence. But since that government body has seen huge failures over the past decade doesn't it make sense to cut their budget significantly?
- tgv 6y agoNumber of people working for intelligence services in my country: around 2000. Number of people working in education: 342100. It won't make a dent.
- contingencies 6y agoWhat are the budgets?
- sebastien_b 6y agoWell done!
- whoknew1122 6y agoWait, in a modern democracy you can have an executive branch that's actually accountable for breaking laws? Huh...
- mintyc 6y agoOn the flip side intelligence also uncovers huge networks of despicable people. https://www.thelocal.dk/20161021/danish-man-ran-scandinavian-only-paedo-ring https://www.thelocal.dk/20161021/danish-man-ran-scandinavian...