5 ms·

I3wm and Ubuntu 20.04 server without any useless packages

21 points by efazati 6y ago

efazati 6y ago
In this project, you can install i3 from the Ubuntu server without installing anything that you don't need.
- k2enemy 6y ago
  To be honest, this looks a lot more like a script to set up your preferred environment, not a minimal i3 install. It includes a lot of packages like Firefox, docker, fish, etc that have nothing to do with i3.
  - efazati 6y ago
    You are right. maybe it is better to remove all apps from the repo and put them in another place to let users choose based on their need
numlock86 6y ago
> without any useless packages This is as opinionated as it can get. No specific mention of any of those packages either. So what am I looking at?
- efazati 6y ago
  You are right, I should update readme for more detail. but mainly there is no dm ( display manager ) also I didn't add most of the gnome related packages I will write a good comparison
ramses0 6y ago
Why Ubuntu and not Debian for a project like this?
- markstos 6y ago
  Having used both recently, I found when some vendors target just one distro to package for, they target Ubuntu because it's more popular, not Debian. I thought "No problem, the .deb format works on both!". But in practice the Ubuntu and Debian release cycles are not aligned and so their dependency trees are not always aligned, so some vendors .deb package for Ubuntu may not work on Debian. You can choose Debian and hope you don't run into this, or you can choose Ubuntu and benefit from current and future support from a more popular desktop distribution.
- efazati 6y ago
  Debian can be a really great base for something like this. But I just assumed that most people are more comfortable working with something like Ubuntu.
clircle 6y ago
How is this different from installing ubuntu and then installing i3 ?
- markstos 6y ago
  This is Ubuntu server plus i3 and some opinionated other package choices. This ends up being fewer overall packages than Ubuntu Desktop plus i3.
  - clircle 6y ago
    I’m still confused about why this exists when you can install Ubuntu server and i3...
Zhyl 6y ago
So I have no idea what the poster means by 'without any useless packages' but I can talk a little to why packaging i3 is good. Firstly, I like i3. Of all the tiling Window managers I've tried it seems to be the best mix of minimal, easy to understand, easy to configure and brings all the benefits of tiling WMs in terms of workflow and aesthetics. What i3 doesn't do out of the box is look very good or have many common tweaks and quality of life improvements. This is something where the i3 community spin of Manjaro [0] shines because it bakes all of this in and gives you a gorgeous, modern-looking WM as default. Regolith [1] was the first attempt I saw at providing this out of the box, but I'd definitely be interested in ways and means of containerising configs and i3 setups so that they are more easily accessible and can be tried out more easily. [0] https://manjaro.org/download/#i3 https://manjaro.org/download/#i3 (Direct link is broken. Click 'Editions -> Community -> I3') [1] https://regolith-linux.org/ https://regolith-linux.org/
- GGfpc 6y ago
  Maybe I'm missing something but there's no option for i3 in that Manjaro URL. I currently use Regolith but I'm looking for something lighter but still doesn't force me to configure every single thing like battery or wifi.
  - jplayer01 6y ago
    The link doesn't work. That's just the page for the official releases. You have to go to Editions at the top of the page -> Community -> i3.
  - Zhyl 6y ago
    Make sure that your browser is directing you to the URL which includes the '#'. If it doesn't, you can find it under 'community' flavours. edit: nope, you're right it isn't working!
- jplayer01 6y ago
  After turning to Manjaro for my main distro, I feel like all the time I spent on trying to configure a base Arch install was totally wasted. The i3/awesome community editions are great - they are properly configured and setup with sane defaults and a minimum set of programs to ensure basic functionality you'd expect from your average OS (like wifi) works straight out of the box. I don't think I could go back to doing everything from scratch with Arch or even starting from Ubuntu (or other) where the default settings for i3/awesome are nigh unusable until you've sunk a significant amount of time into setting everything up.
chirau 6y ago
What are "useless packages" and why were they made?
- diffeomorphism 6y ago
  A completely vague term for "stuff I don't personally need". They were made and included because lots people want them and consider them useful, obviously. That said, their definition of "useless" is completely at odds with mine, with them preinstalling slack, zoom, spotify and balena etcher.
  - stragies 6y ago
    So why then did you choose the "Windows among the Linux-distributions" as a base?
    - diffeomorphism 6y ago
      > So why then did you Who? I am not the author.
- cxr 6y ago
  Here's a subset of active processes on my system, where I know that these have never fulfilled their purpose, given the way that I use my computer: - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-source-registry - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-alarm-notify - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-addressbook-factory - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-addressbook-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess Side note: I blogged about this last year, outlining a policy that distro package maintainers could adopt: https://www.colbyrussell.com/2019/05/15/may-integration.html#self-culling-services https://www.colbyrussell.com/2019/05/15/may-integration.html... The idea is that any background service should be sufficiently self-aware, i.e., able to understand that (a) it is a service was installed by default (without explicit action on the part of the user; it was just included in the default install) so that it may at some point be of use, and (b) in the last (say) 4 months since the system was first installed, the service has never been exercised for its original purpose. Given those conditions, the system should retire the service for the foreseeable future, so that it no longer runs in the background.
jonfw 6y ago
I spent a couple of years running an extremely minimal arch I3 install. It was fantastic doing things within my normal workflow, but when you have to introduce new tools, new network requirements, etc. it takes a fairly significant amount of effort. For instance- connecting to my university's wifi took hours and required hacking up a python script that wasn't compatible with my system. I think a lot of the fight against 'bloat' is largely ideological and not really rooted in practicality, but it definitely makes for a good learning experience
- zdragnar 6y ago
  I recently switched to KDE, Which lets you use i3 as the window manager. You still get KDE's bar and applets like the network manager and such. Not nearly as minimal as the arch setup I had before, and takes a depressing amount of time to log in and out in comparison, but so far is otherwise worth it for me.
hd4 6y ago
Is there much point in enabling compositing if we're installing i3 with this method? Would it even make a difference?
- bjonnh 6y ago
  I3 supports compositing, I used it to have semi transparent floating windows (heresy for a tiling wm isn't it) and it also greatly improved some stuff such as smooth scrolling that was all teary.
bjonnh 6y ago
It is still installing Bluetooth support, ansible, terraform and all kind of things. Maybe you could group these so they can be disabled individually. I guess the notion of "useless" package really differs from users to user and doesn't really allow for a "standardized minimalistic experience".
- efazati 6y ago
  You are right about those packages. I removed them, I will try to make better packaging system for diffrent usage
jakearmitage 6y ago
> without any useless packages redis, cmake, caffeine, unrar, vlc, postgres, docker, axel, fish, fzf... really?
aneutron 6y ago
In my (albeit limited) experience, those "useless" packages tend to be not so useless in order to have a somewhat functional installation. Example: By default, Ubuntu+GNOME installs various utilities that you WILL need unless you want to do everything by hand. nm-applet, bluetooth applet, volume applet, etc. Of course you have to add this to the i3 configuration manually, but that's the beauty of running i3. Yes you may have useless packages hanging around. But they will not be running UNLESS and ONLY IF you wish for that to be the case. But when you need those "useless" packages, and you will most certainly need them to connect to your Wi-Fi network, you will be happy to have them already on GNOME and not have to install everything package by package and perhaps even compile an alternative software because it's the only one you found referenced on a reddit thread. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, it's fun to do this once as an exercise to know how your computer works (learn what a compositor is, learn how pulseaudio works, etc.). But beyond that, it starts to get pretty tedious and not fun.
- efazati 6y ago
  You can include them based on your need instead of adding them because someone else likes to use them
vitorbaptistaa 6y ago
I just reinstalled my machine from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04. I'm using i3wm for a few years, and things never worked out of the box. The sound applet, VPN, and other small things that quickly add up. I'm now using Regolith [1] and loving it. It offers a clean and neat i3wm installation, but still uses Ubuntu's system admin tools. It was really simple to install: just install Ubuntu, add its PPA and run apt-get. I highly recommend it for anyone that likes i3wm but doesn't want to be fiddling with configuration files to connect to a new WiFI or pair bluetooth headphones. [1] https://regolith-linux.org/ https://regolith-linux.org/
- montecarl 6y ago
  I will second this. I am also using regolith as a PPA on Ubuntu. Took some work to merge my i3 config with regolith's but it was worth it. Check it out if you currently use i3wm.
- e12e 6y ago
  Mhm. Looks nice. Is there an equivalent for sway/Wayland? My external monitors behave nicer w/dock un-dock under gnome/Wayland. I'm planning to give sway a test when I get around to upgrading to 20.04..
markstos 6y ago
You probably want Regolith Linux instead, or an Ansible-based solution which will work better for updates. This project is an opinionated one-time install script. After initial install, good luck!
e12e 6y ago
It's nice to see people sharing - but this seems like a terrible way to install the needed packages, with a separate install per package, rather than a list of packages.. https://github.com/efazati/i3buntu/blob/master/run.sh https://github.com/efazati/i3buntu/blob/master/run.sh Something like: https://wiki.debian.org/AptCLI?highlight=%28%5CbCategoryPackageManagement%5Cb%29#Restore_installed_software https://wiki.debian.org/AptCLI?highlight=%28%5CbCategoryPack... apt-clone: https://github.com/mvo5/apt-clone https://github.com/mvo5/apt-clone Or indeed like it's done here, but supplying a list of packets to apt, rather than a list of apt command lines to run one after another... But the best way would probably just be a fork of regolith, and create a meta package.

21 points by efazati 6y ago

efazati 6y ago

In this project, you can install i3 from the Ubuntu server without installing anything that you don't need.

k2enemy 6y ago
To be honest, this looks a lot more like a script to set up your preferred environment, not a minimal i3 install. It includes a lot of packages like Firefox, docker, fish, etc that have nothing to do with i3.
- efazati 6y ago
  You are right. maybe it is better to remove all apps from the repo and put them in another place to let users choose based on their need

numlock86 6y ago

> without any useless packages This is as opinionated as it can get. No specific mention of any of those packages either. So what am I looking at?

efazati 6y ago
You are right, I should update readme for more detail. but mainly there is no dm ( display manager ) also I didn't add most of the gnome related packages I will write a good comparison

ramses0 6y ago

Why Ubuntu and not Debian for a project like this?

markstos 6y ago
Having used both recently, I found when some vendors target just one distro to package for, they target Ubuntu because it's more popular, not Debian. I thought "No problem, the .deb format works on both!". But in practice the Ubuntu and Debian release cycles are not aligned and so their dependency trees are not always aligned, so some vendors .deb package for Ubuntu may not work on Debian. You can choose Debian and hope you don't run into this, or you can choose Ubuntu and benefit from current and future support from a more popular desktop distribution.
efazati 6y ago
Debian can be a really great base for something like this. But I just assumed that most people are more comfortable working with something like Ubuntu.

clircle 6y ago

How is this different from installing ubuntu and then installing i3 ?

markstos 6y ago
This is Ubuntu server plus i3 and some opinionated other package choices. This ends up being fewer overall packages than Ubuntu Desktop plus i3.
- clircle 6y ago
  I’m still confused about why this exists when you can install Ubuntu server and i3...

Zhyl 6y ago

So I have no idea what the poster means by 'without any useless packages' but I can talk a little to why packaging i3 is good. Firstly, I like i3. Of all the tiling Window managers I've tried it seems to be the best mix of minimal, easy to understand, easy to configure and brings all the benefits of tiling WMs in terms of workflow and aesthetics. What i3 doesn't do out of the box is look very good or have many common tweaks and quality of life improvements. This is something where the i3 community spin of Manjaro [0] shines because it bakes all of this in and gives you a gorgeous, modern-looking WM as default. Regolith [1] was the first attempt I saw at providing this out of the box, but I'd definitely be interested in ways and means of containerising configs and i3 setups so that they are more easily accessible and can be tried out more easily. [0] https://manjaro.org/download/#i3 https://manjaro.org/download/#i3 (Direct link is broken. Click 'Editions -> Community -> I3') [1] https://regolith-linux.org/ https://regolith-linux.org/

GGfpc 6y ago
Maybe I'm missing something but there's no option for i3 in that Manjaro URL. I currently use Regolith but I'm looking for something lighter but still doesn't force me to configure every single thing like battery or wifi.
- jplayer01 6y ago
  The link doesn't work. That's just the page for the official releases. You have to go to Editions at the top of the page -> Community -> i3.
- Zhyl 6y ago
  Make sure that your browser is directing you to the URL which includes the '#'. If it doesn't, you can find it under 'community' flavours. edit: nope, you're right it isn't working!
jplayer01 6y ago
After turning to Manjaro for my main distro, I feel like all the time I spent on trying to configure a base Arch install was totally wasted. The i3/awesome community editions are great - they are properly configured and setup with sane defaults and a minimum set of programs to ensure basic functionality you'd expect from your average OS (like wifi) works straight out of the box. I don't think I could go back to doing everything from scratch with Arch or even starting from Ubuntu (or other) where the default settings for i3/awesome are nigh unusable until you've sunk a significant amount of time into setting everything up.

chirau 6y ago

What are "useless packages" and why were they made?

diffeomorphism 6y ago
A completely vague term for "stuff I don't personally need". They were made and included because lots people want them and consider them useful, obviously. That said, their definition of "useless" is completely at odds with mine, with them preinstalling slack, zoom, spotify and balena etcher.
- stragies 6y ago
  So why then did you choose the "Windows among the Linux-distributions" as a base?
  - diffeomorphism 6y ago
    > So why then did you Who? I am not the author.
cxr 6y ago
Here's a subset of active processes on my system, where I know that these have never fulfilled their purpose, given the way that I use my computer: - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-source-registry - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-alarm-notify - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-addressbook-factory - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-addressbook-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess - /usr/lib/evolution/evolution-calendar-factory-subprocess Side note: I blogged about this last year, outlining a policy that distro package maintainers could adopt: https://www.colbyrussell.com/2019/05/15/may-integration.html#self-culling-services https://www.colbyrussell.com/2019/05/15/may-integration.html... The idea is that any background service should be sufficiently self-aware, i.e., able to understand that (a) it is a service was installed by default (without explicit action on the part of the user; it was just included in the default install) so that it may at some point be of use, and (b) in the last (say) 4 months since the system was first installed, the service has never been exercised for its original purpose. Given those conditions, the system should retire the service for the foreseeable future, so that it no longer runs in the background.

jonfw 6y ago

I spent a couple of years running an extremely minimal arch I3 install. It was fantastic doing things within my normal workflow, but when you have to introduce new tools, new network requirements, etc. it takes a fairly significant amount of effort. For instance- connecting to my university's wifi took hours and required hacking up a python script that wasn't compatible with my system. I think a lot of the fight against 'bloat' is largely ideological and not really rooted in practicality, but it definitely makes for a good learning experience

zdragnar 6y ago
I recently switched to KDE, Which lets you use i3 as the window manager. You still get KDE's bar and applets like the network manager and such. Not nearly as minimal as the arch setup I had before, and takes a depressing amount of time to log in and out in comparison, but so far is otherwise worth it for me.

hd4 6y ago

Is there much point in enabling compositing if we're installing i3 with this method? Would it even make a difference?

bjonnh 6y ago
I3 supports compositing, I used it to have semi transparent floating windows (heresy for a tiling wm isn't it) and it also greatly improved some stuff such as smooth scrolling that was all teary.

bjonnh 6y ago

It is still installing Bluetooth support, ansible, terraform and all kind of things. Maybe you could group these so they can be disabled individually. I guess the notion of "useless" package really differs from users to user and doesn't really allow for a "standardized minimalistic experience".

efazati 6y ago
You are right about those packages. I removed them, I will try to make better packaging system for diffrent usage

jakearmitage 6y ago

> without any useless packages redis, cmake, caffeine, unrar, vlc, postgres, docker, axel, fish, fzf... really?

aneutron 6y ago

In my (albeit limited) experience, those "useless" packages tend to be not so useless in order to have a somewhat functional installation. Example: By default, Ubuntu+GNOME installs various utilities that you WILL need unless you want to do everything by hand. nm-applet, bluetooth applet, volume applet, etc. Of course you have to add this to the i3 configuration manually, but that's the beauty of running i3. Yes you may have useless packages hanging around. But they will not be running UNLESS and ONLY IF you wish for that to be the case. But when you need those "useless" packages, and you will most certainly need them to connect to your Wi-Fi network, you will be happy to have them already on GNOME and not have to install everything package by package and perhaps even compile an alternative software because it's the only one you found referenced on a reddit thread. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, it's fun to do this once as an exercise to know how your computer works (learn what a compositor is, learn how pulseaudio works, etc.). But beyond that, it starts to get pretty tedious and not fun.

efazati 6y ago
You can include them based on your need instead of adding them because someone else likes to use them

vitorbaptistaa 6y ago

I just reinstalled my machine from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04. I'm using i3wm for a few years, and things never worked out of the box. The sound applet, VPN, and other small things that quickly add up. I'm now using Regolith [1] and loving it. It offers a clean and neat i3wm installation, but still uses Ubuntu's system admin tools. It was really simple to install: just install Ubuntu, add its PPA and run apt-get. I highly recommend it for anyone that likes i3wm but doesn't want to be fiddling with configuration files to connect to a new WiFI or pair bluetooth headphones. [1] https://regolith-linux.org/ https://regolith-linux.org/

montecarl 6y ago
I will second this. I am also using regolith as a PPA on Ubuntu. Took some work to merge my i3 config with regolith's but it was worth it. Check it out if you currently use i3wm.
e12e 6y ago
Mhm. Looks nice. Is there an equivalent for sway/Wayland? My external monitors behave nicer w/dock un-dock under gnome/Wayland. I'm planning to give sway a test when I get around to upgrading to 20.04..

markstos 6y ago

You probably want Regolith Linux instead, or an Ansible-based solution which will work better for updates. This project is an opinionated one-time install script. After initial install, good luck!

e12e 6y ago

It's nice to see people sharing - but this seems like a terrible way to install the needed packages, with a separate install per package, rather than a list of packages.. https://github.com/efazati/i3buntu/blob/master/run.sh https://github.com/efazati/i3buntu/blob/master/run.sh Something like: https://wiki.debian.org/AptCLI?highlight=%28%5CbCategoryPackageManagement%5Cb%29#Restore_installed_software https://wiki.debian.org/AptCLI?highlight=%28%5CbCategoryPack... apt-clone: https://github.com/mvo5/apt-clone https://github.com/mvo5/apt-clone Or indeed like it's done here, but supplying a list of packets to apt, rather than a list of apt command lines to run one after another... But the best way would probably just be a fork of regolith, and create a meta package.