7 ms·

Blizzard bans player from Hearthstone following on-stream Hong Kong protest

180 points by wei_jok 7y ago

mister_hn 7y ago
That's really sad and stupid. Now magically all the tech giants are blocking the accounts of HKers. Here you have the power and the dark side of the cloud: one click and it's game over
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
alpaca128 7y ago
"Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD [...]" That's pretty close to "Blizzard can remove you from Grandmasters as soon as you open your mouth". Sad to see such a cowardice from corporations, although in the case of Blizzard it was kind of to be expected after all their visual modifications to Hearthstone in order to appeal to the chinese market.
- mlang23 7y ago
  Isn't this basically the same with all big corporations these days? If you say unpopular things on your YouTube channel, you will be demonitized.as a way of punishment. In short, either you please big brother, or you will suffer.
  - hos234 7y ago
    Big corps can't escalate things as a reaction or on a whim. They have much more to loose than a single protestor does. It has to be planned. Preferably with all other big corps in tow. Google tried and their market share went from 35% to 2%. Now if they had got together with other corps, and drawn a line the story might have been different. That said, with each attempt comes learning and the next attempt wont go the same way. The Chinese aren't immune to pressure (as the tariff wars show) and there are invisible lines in the sand, they can be pushed to step over that will unify opposition and escalate things. Intelligent protest is about finding those lines.
    - mlang23 7y ago
      I agree with your analysis, but I dont agree with the motivations. The issue is forced growth. Why exactly is it so important for Google to have a market share in China? As if they aren't dominating the internet enough already. And because everyone buys the "we need endless growth"-myth, it is suddenly OK if Google sides with China because all they are doing is trying to grow. Aha. I tend to see things differently. They use the market share as an excuse to not care. As long as we put bussiness over everything, we can't really be surprised about corporations working against citizen rights.
  - x220 7y ago
    Yes, it is. I've heard many examples of youtube channels with mildly conservative political opinions getting ranked far lower than the youtube algorithm should rank them. Since youtube isn't transparent with its creators we have to speculate for ourselves. A lot of evidence points towards censorship.
  - virgilp 7y ago
    Is it a "big corporations" thing? Try saying e.g. that maybe Minsky was innocent, see how that works. OTOH who knows anymore, maybe big corporations do have something to do with it.... it's certainly convenient. If you have money it's rather easy to summon a mob to do your bidding and silence inconvenient people, so they must love this new trend. Also if you have money and power, it's easy to get discretionary, arbitrarily-enforced rules to not apply to you. All these new trends are so much more convenient than the old "due process" thing....
    - joelx 7y ago
      I think we all need to boycott Blizzard and the NBA for putting money over freedom and democracy.
  - Iv 7y ago
    I choose to believe that even big corporations can choose to have values. I do believe we are entering in an age where reputation is going to be much more valuable to companies. My ISP for 10 years is one that took some strong stances against censorship by doing things like mirroring wikileaks (back when it was cool) os supporting net neutrality. I kinda put Google in a different basket for years because of their (initial? I think they changed?) refusal to censor search results in China. And companies who submit to Chinese censorship, I want strictly nothing to do with.
- jug 7y ago
  Eh, it's pretty much a given that a company won't tolerate using their games as platforms for politics or propaganda. I consider this no better than annoying spam and I'm happy they did it. I don't want to see it if I'm playing their games. I didn't sign up for that, so get it out. I don't care if it's politics that I support or not.
- BigJ1211 7y ago
  Ironically refusing to speak can also mean that. If the rest of the players would refuse to speak at all (in interviews or whatever), they could still be banned for that.
ohashi 7y ago
NBA, Blizzard, who is next?
- twno1 7y ago
  What next? I just checked how many game companies owned by Tencent. I don't think situation will going better. Especially these are popular esport games (Fortnite, LOL, PUBG) https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-in/ https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-...
- Ygg2 7y ago
  You forgot Disney.
x220 7y ago
The act didn't bring Blizzard into public dispute. Blizzard banning the player brings Blizzard into public disrepute because it shows that they are cowardly whores willing to do anything for money.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  >The act didn't bring Blizzard into public dispute. Like most things these days, that depends on which "public" you're talking about.
  - x220 7y ago
    Do you have any evidence that the free HK statement itself harmed Blizzard's business?
    - RealStickman 7y ago
      Do you have any evidence that leaving that statement wouldn't harm Blizzard's business?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
orisho 7y ago
Title is clickbaity. They did it for a political protest during an official Blizzard tournament stream, not for actions on his own stream or something. He put on a gas mask and called for liberation of HK. I'm with him, but I definitely see why Blizzard has the rule in place, and it would not be right to overlook this - they would then have to be OK with others doing other protests. Blizzard should not pick a side.
- calcifer 7y ago
  > Blizzard should not pick a side. Not picking a side is siding with the status quo, which is Chinese oppression in Hong Kong.
  - orisho 7y ago
    Not picking a side is not allowing political discussion, no matter who you (or they) perceive to be right. Coincidentally, this is also the choice that makes most sense to a corporation which stands to lose a lot from picking a side. Players will likely respond to sensationalist reporting of this case, but forget about it soon after, while the Chinese government is not gonna go easy on Blizzard picking the other side.
    - x220 7y ago
      But nearly every large company in America engages in political discussion when they talk about diversity, feminism, and inclusion. I think that's a good thing, but it's clearly not the case that these companies shy away from making progressive statements.
      - mlang23 7y ago
        All they are doing is saying things which a certain audience wants to hear. Nobody really cares about inclusion or diversity. They just claim to do so, because in this day and age, they will benefit from doing so.
      - chii 7y ago
sawaruna 7y ago
The cost of Tencent investment funds.
cheeze 7y ago
Companies are spineless and will do pretty much anything for money. We've seen it from the NBA, Blizzard, Disney, and the like. The fact of the matter is that if you want to do business in China, you have to be open to censoring things that they don't like.
- x220 7y ago
  They're whores. They'll do and say anything for money.
- anonthrowaway28 7y ago
  South Park rules.
Rainymood 7y ago
While I agree with the sentiment that is being expressed here (i.e. it's "wrong"). I can't help but think about the fact that he ... simply broke the rules. There is a clear clause in the ToS that states basically "You are working for us. If you say anything that can damage our reputation, we can cease working with you." Which, to me, makes a whole lot of sense to have as a clause.
- x220 7y ago
  He didn't damage their reputation. Blizzard shot themselves in the foot.
  - Rainymood 7y ago
    That's like, totally your opinion. Blizzard has a huge base in China that is largely invisible to us. As a large (gaming) company you want to stay as neutral as possible, or at least that's what I imagine what large PR firms would consult Blizzard to do.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      Standing up for totalitarianism hardly seems like a neutral choice.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    I’m sure allowing this wouldn’t do much for their reputation as a company that wants to trade in China. Not everything has to be a forum for political speech, and trying to force everything into being one is just a deceptive way of trying to force your views onto others.
- jxi 7y ago
  Probably, but that's not saying much. Anything a player does could in theory damage their reputation (e.g. something ridiculous like saying you like AMD over Nvidia can damage Blizzard's reputation with Nvidia fans). I think the fact that they're choosing to exercise their ToS right in this case does speak to their values rather than it being them just "enforcing rules".
Iv 7y ago
> Blizzard has ruled that Hearthstone pro Chung "blitzchung" Ng Wai will been removed from Hearthstone Grandmasters, following the player's call for Hong Kong's freedom during a post-match interview. Additionally, Blizzard has stated that it will no longer work with the two casters who appeared in the now deleted broadcast. https://www.pcgamer.com/blitzchung-removed-from-hearthstone-grandmasters-for-liberate-hong-kong-comments/ https://www.pcgamer.com/blitzchung-removed-from-hearthstone-... I am a huge starcraft 2 fan. But from now on, I'll refrain talking about it. Boycott Blizzard. They support Chinese censorship. I am so sad. That was a company I really loved.
__s 7y ago
Similarly, let's not forget the MtG deck Umbrella Revolution: https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/adriennereynolds-101714-whats-in-a-name-lee-shi-tian-and-the-umbrella-revolution https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/adriennereynolds-101714-whats...
jimbob45 7y ago
At this point, Blizz must be hoping that the bad publicity is better than their current no publicity. Hearthstone is the #14 title on Twitch as I type this out and prominent players have noted how much less viewership the tournaments consistently get. Also Tencent owns a portion of Activision Blizzard. That would be my guess for who is pulling the strings behind this specific incident.
- lmedinas 7y ago
  I think Blizzard wants to make a statement and being strict about politics have no place in their games... Honestly i would be surprised if any gaming company would allow that, independent if the Player is right or wrong. With respect to Twitch placement, since when Twitch is a benchmark for number of Players in a game worldwide ? HS lost momentum because of the greedy economy of the game and because other games surged. Another source for the subject: https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/10/in-post-game-interview-hearthstone-player-calls-for-the-liberation-of-hong-kong/ https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/10/in-post-game-interview-hea...
  - LordDragonfang 7y ago
    >I think Blizzard wants to make a statement and being strict about politics have no place in their games... Meanwhile in Overwatch, they've made a point of a diverse cast and canonically made several characters gay/bi, upsetting plenty of far-conservatives. (all of which is excellent, of course) Hell, Starcraft literally features storylines about revolutionaries fighting a dictatorship. I get that game politics are different than real-world politics, and they have to draw the line somewhere, but it's a little conspicuous where they've chosen to draw the line.
zeouter 7y ago
The fact they went so hard on this (and will no longer work with the two casters who tried to hide / not be associated) is part of what's particularly so insulting, and egregious. They are implicitly making an example of this, thereby sending a political message.
Debugreality 7y ago
Very brave @blitzchungHS hope your message is heard.
playing_colours 7y ago
I am thinking about it from the angle of video games vs. real world. Be a hero, a revolutionary, a pirate, feel encouraged to work hard, explore more, improve yourself, rebel, but only there in a safe artificial illusion, virtual world they built for you. In real life, do stay a passive compliant consumer, a source of money (or energy like in Matrix). This chasm seems to keep widening with the progress in technologies like VR, and this way of organizing a society is very convenient for businesses and people in power. Welcome to Coward New World! Ingenious next steps in this direction would be to seamlessly integrate our jobs into artificial reality, so that people can sustain themselves, make money for corporations and people in power - do all this staying totally immersed in the illusionary world. Get exclusive game currency, bonuses to your stats from your employer for a good work. Mmmm, I want to write a book about it :)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ngcc_hk 7y ago
Not a surprise. If you still do not get, prepare for a world with no freedom of speech. Starting from Cathay, nba abd this. You have to kill Winnie the pool per South Park advice. You have to ... there is choice when you have to no freedom.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
craftoman 7y ago
I keep tracking Blizzard cause I play Hearthstone from time to time. This company is unethical, it doesn't even care or respect their own employees and you can see it based on their previous scandals. They are treating both designers & developers like money making machines and they ruined almost every of aspect of their games. They spend millions of dollars in tournaments and always trick their costumers into buying more and more gaming content. It's the most greedy gaming company after EA.
- pinouchon 7y ago
  They shouldn't have accepted to get bought by Activision. The only way they make good games now is by releasing old titles (sc remastered, classic, reforged)... And now this
  - craftoman 7y ago
    Yeah and the irony is that Activision was formed by Atari employees who left the company because they were treated like sh!t.
prepend 7y ago
I like how esports is so close to sports sports. This is the equivalent of “taking a knee” during NFL games while the national anthem is played. What’s curious is that it now pits free speech vs China with Heartstone own Kaepernick. The NFL issue, I think, was two social groups (kneeler vs people upset by kneelers) with NFL/Nike/etc in the middle. This new situation has a social group (players/free speeches/HK) vs a state (China) with Blizzard/etc in the middle. It’s curious how Blizzard so quickly picked their side while NFL and Nike are still not going all in on one side (NFL didn’t ban, just no one hired player).

180 points by wei_jok 7y ago

That's really sad and stupid. Now magically all the tech giants are blocking the accounts of HKers. Here you have the power and the dark side of the cloud: one click and it's game over

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

alpaca128 7y ago

"Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD [...]" That's pretty close to "Blizzard can remove you from Grandmasters as soon as you open your mouth". Sad to see such a cowardice from corporations, although in the case of Blizzard it was kind of to be expected after all their visual modifications to Hearthstone in order to appeal to the chinese market.

mlang23 7y ago
Isn't this basically the same with all big corporations these days? If you say unpopular things on your YouTube channel, you will be demonitized.as a way of punishment. In short, either you please big brother, or you will suffer.
- hos234 7y ago
  Big corps can't escalate things as a reaction or on a whim. They have much more to loose than a single protestor does. It has to be planned. Preferably with all other big corps in tow. Google tried and their market share went from 35% to 2%. Now if they had got together with other corps, and drawn a line the story might have been different. That said, with each attempt comes learning and the next attempt wont go the same way. The Chinese aren't immune to pressure (as the tariff wars show) and there are invisible lines in the sand, they can be pushed to step over that will unify opposition and escalate things. Intelligent protest is about finding those lines.
  - mlang23 7y ago
    I agree with your analysis, but I dont agree with the motivations. The issue is forced growth. Why exactly is it so important for Google to have a market share in China? As if they aren't dominating the internet enough already. And because everyone buys the "we need endless growth"-myth, it is suddenly OK if Google sides with China because all they are doing is trying to grow. Aha. I tend to see things differently. They use the market share as an excuse to not care. As long as we put bussiness over everything, we can't really be surprised about corporations working against citizen rights.
- x220 7y ago
  Yes, it is. I've heard many examples of youtube channels with mildly conservative political opinions getting ranked far lower than the youtube algorithm should rank them. Since youtube isn't transparent with its creators we have to speculate for ourselves. A lot of evidence points towards censorship.
- virgilp 7y ago
  Is it a "big corporations" thing? Try saying e.g. that maybe Minsky was innocent, see how that works. OTOH who knows anymore, maybe big corporations do have something to do with it.... it's certainly convenient. If you have money it's rather easy to summon a mob to do your bidding and silence inconvenient people, so they must love this new trend. Also if you have money and power, it's easy to get discretionary, arbitrarily-enforced rules to not apply to you. All these new trends are so much more convenient than the old "due process" thing....
  - joelx 7y ago
    I think we all need to boycott Blizzard and the NBA for putting money over freedom and democracy.
- Iv 7y ago
  I choose to believe that even big corporations can choose to have values. I do believe we are entering in an age where reputation is going to be much more valuable to companies. My ISP for 10 years is one that took some strong stances against censorship by doing things like mirroring wikileaks (back when it was cool) os supporting net neutrality. I kinda put Google in a different basket for years because of their (initial? I think they changed?) refusal to censor search results in China. And companies who submit to Chinese censorship, I want strictly nothing to do with.
jug 7y ago
Eh, it's pretty much a given that a company won't tolerate using their games as platforms for politics or propaganda. I consider this no better than annoying spam and I'm happy they did it. I don't want to see it if I'm playing their games. I didn't sign up for that, so get it out. I don't care if it's politics that I support or not.
BigJ1211 7y ago
Ironically refusing to speak can also mean that. If the rest of the players would refuse to speak at all (in interviews or whatever), they could still be banned for that.

ohashi 7y ago

NBA, Blizzard, who is next?

twno1 7y ago
What next? I just checked how many game companies owned by Tencent. I don't think situation will going better. Especially these are popular esport games (Fortnite, LOL, PUBG) https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-invested-in/ https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-...
Ygg2 7y ago
You forgot Disney.

x220 7y ago

The act didn't bring Blizzard into public dispute. Blizzard banning the player brings Blizzard into public disrepute because it shows that they are cowardly whores willing to do anything for money.

bilbo0s 7y ago
>The act didn't bring Blizzard into public dispute. Like most things these days, that depends on which "public" you're talking about.
- x220 7y ago
  Do you have any evidence that the free HK statement itself harmed Blizzard's business?
  - RealStickman 7y ago
    Do you have any evidence that leaving that statement wouldn't harm Blizzard's business?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

orisho 7y ago

Title is clickbaity. They did it for a political protest during an official Blizzard tournament stream, not for actions on his own stream or something. He put on a gas mask and called for liberation of HK. I'm with him, but I definitely see why Blizzard has the rule in place, and it would not be right to overlook this - they would then have to be OK with others doing other protests. Blizzard should not pick a side.

calcifer 7y ago
> Blizzard should not pick a side. Not picking a side is siding with the status quo, which is Chinese oppression in Hong Kong.
- orisho 7y ago
  Not picking a side is not allowing political discussion, no matter who you (or they) perceive to be right. Coincidentally, this is also the choice that makes most sense to a corporation which stands to lose a lot from picking a side. Players will likely respond to sensationalist reporting of this case, but forget about it soon after, while the Chinese government is not gonna go easy on Blizzard picking the other side.
  - x220 7y ago
    But nearly every large company in America engages in political discussion when they talk about diversity, feminism, and inclusion. I think that's a good thing, but it's clearly not the case that these companies shy away from making progressive statements.
    - mlang23 7y ago
      All they are doing is saying things which a certain audience wants to hear. Nobody really cares about inclusion or diversity. They just claim to do so, because in this day and age, they will benefit from doing so.
    - chii 7y ago

sawaruna 7y ago

The cost of Tencent investment funds.

cheeze 7y ago

Companies are spineless and will do pretty much anything for money. We've seen it from the NBA, Blizzard, Disney, and the like. The fact of the matter is that if you want to do business in China, you have to be open to censoring things that they don't like.

x220 7y ago
They're whores. They'll do and say anything for money.
anonthrowaway28 7y ago
South Park rules.

Rainymood 7y ago

While I agree with the sentiment that is being expressed here (i.e. it's "wrong"). I can't help but think about the fact that he ... simply broke the rules. There is a clear clause in the ToS that states basically "You are working for us. If you say anything that can damage our reputation, we can cease working with you." Which, to me, makes a whole lot of sense to have as a clause.

x220 7y ago
He didn't damage their reputation. Blizzard shot themselves in the foot.
- Rainymood 7y ago
  That's like, totally your opinion. Blizzard has a huge base in China that is largely invisible to us. As a large (gaming) company you want to stay as neutral as possible, or at least that's what I imagine what large PR firms would consult Blizzard to do.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    Standing up for totalitarianism hardly seems like a neutral choice.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  I’m sure allowing this wouldn’t do much for their reputation as a company that wants to trade in China. Not everything has to be a forum for political speech, and trying to force everything into being one is just a deceptive way of trying to force your views onto others.
jxi 7y ago
Probably, but that's not saying much. Anything a player does could in theory damage their reputation (e.g. something ridiculous like saying you like AMD over Nvidia can damage Blizzard's reputation with Nvidia fans). I think the fact that they're choosing to exercise their ToS right in this case does speak to their values rather than it being them just "enforcing rules".

Iv 7y ago

> Blizzard has ruled that Hearthstone pro Chung "blitzchung" Ng Wai will been removed from Hearthstone Grandmasters, following the player's call for Hong Kong's freedom during a post-match interview. Additionally, Blizzard has stated that it will no longer work with the two casters who appeared in the now deleted broadcast. https://www.pcgamer.com/blitzchung-removed-from-hearthstone-grandmasters-for-liberate-hong-kong-comments/ https://www.pcgamer.com/blitzchung-removed-from-hearthstone-... I am a huge starcraft 2 fan. But from now on, I'll refrain talking about it. Boycott Blizzard. They support Chinese censorship. I am so sad. That was a company I really loved.

__s 7y ago

Similarly, let's not forget the MtG deck Umbrella Revolution: https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/adriennereynolds-101714-whats-in-a-name-lee-shi-tian-and-the-umbrella-revolution https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/adriennereynolds-101714-whats...

jimbob45 7y ago

At this point, Blizz must be hoping that the bad publicity is better than their current no publicity. Hearthstone is the #14 title on Twitch as I type this out and prominent players have noted how much less viewership the tournaments consistently get. Also Tencent owns a portion of Activision Blizzard. That would be my guess for who is pulling the strings behind this specific incident.

lmedinas 7y ago
I think Blizzard wants to make a statement and being strict about politics have no place in their games... Honestly i would be surprised if any gaming company would allow that, independent if the Player is right or wrong. With respect to Twitch placement, since when Twitch is a benchmark for number of Players in a game worldwide ? HS lost momentum because of the greedy economy of the game and because other games surged. Another source for the subject: https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/10/in-post-game-interview-hearthstone-player-calls-for-the-liberation-of-hong-kong/ https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/10/in-post-game-interview-hea...
- LordDragonfang 7y ago
  >I think Blizzard wants to make a statement and being strict about politics have no place in their games... Meanwhile in Overwatch, they've made a point of a diverse cast and canonically made several characters gay/bi, upsetting plenty of far-conservatives. (all of which is excellent, of course) Hell, Starcraft literally features storylines about revolutionaries fighting a dictatorship. I get that game politics are different than real-world politics, and they have to draw the line somewhere, but it's a little conspicuous where they've chosen to draw the line.

zeouter 7y ago

The fact they went so hard on this (and will no longer work with the two casters who tried to hide / not be associated) is part of what's particularly so insulting, and egregious. They are implicitly making an example of this, thereby sending a political message.

Debugreality 7y ago

Very brave @blitzchungHS hope your message is heard.

playing_colours 7y ago

I am thinking about it from the angle of video games vs. real world. Be a hero, a revolutionary, a pirate, feel encouraged to work hard, explore more, improve yourself, rebel, but only there in a safe artificial illusion, virtual world they built for you. In real life, do stay a passive compliant consumer, a source of money (or energy like in Matrix). This chasm seems to keep widening with the progress in technologies like VR, and this way of organizing a society is very convenient for businesses and people in power. Welcome to Coward New World! Ingenious next steps in this direction would be to seamlessly integrate our jobs into artificial reality, so that people can sustain themselves, make money for corporations and people in power - do all this staying totally immersed in the illusionary world. Get exclusive game currency, bonuses to your stats from your employer for a good work. Mmmm, I want to write a book about it :)

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ngcc_hk 7y ago

Not a surprise. If you still do not get, prepare for a world with no freedom of speech. Starting from Cathay, nba abd this. You have to kill Winnie the pool per South Park advice. You have to ... there is choice when you have to no freedom.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

craftoman 7y ago

I keep tracking Blizzard cause I play Hearthstone from time to time. This company is unethical, it doesn't even care or respect their own employees and you can see it based on their previous scandals. They are treating both designers & developers like money making machines and they ruined almost every of aspect of their games. They spend millions of dollars in tournaments and always trick their costumers into buying more and more gaming content. It's the most greedy gaming company after EA.

pinouchon 7y ago
They shouldn't have accepted to get bought by Activision. The only way they make good games now is by releasing old titles (sc remastered, classic, reforged)... And now this
- craftoman 7y ago
  Yeah and the irony is that Activision was formed by Atari employees who left the company because they were treated like sh!t.

prepend 7y ago

I like how esports is so close to sports sports. This is the equivalent of “taking a knee” during NFL games while the national anthem is played. What’s curious is that it now pits free speech vs China with Heartstone own Kaepernick. The NFL issue, I think, was two social groups (kneeler vs people upset by kneelers) with NFL/Nike/etc in the middle. This new situation has a social group (players/free speeches/HK) vs a state (China) with Blizzard/etc in the middle. It’s curious how Blizzard so quickly picked their side while NFL and Nike are still not going all in on one side (NFL didn’t ban, just no one hired player).