10 ms·

I use Windows/Linux/macOS. From a performance to value perspective you cannot beat Linux. Docker/Microk8s the overhead is so low. Dev speed is leagues ahead th

by selfup 7y ago

I use Windows/Linux/macOS. From a performance to value perspective you cannot beat Linux. Docker/Microk8s the overhead is so low. Dev speed is leagues ahead the unfortunate circumstance of having to run Docker/Minikube in a VM on Windows and macOS. Also filesystem IO is unreal compared to Windows at least. Getting a refurb Thinkpad on ebay and having better compute hardware than a mac pro for half the price is also a nice cherry on top so to speak. That and the insane sales Lenovo has all the time for brand new machines is kind of hard to beat as well. Next up is Windows from a hardware perspective. Same refurb thinkpad can dual boot without issue. Then lastly macOS. I have had a mac since 2011. I am having a hard time with the direction Apple is going with their laptops. I have all 3 and they all have their merits, but I find myself using Windows/Linux at home exclusively and macOS at work and I don't mind the context switch. To each their own! With the uncertain future of mac with their potential switch to ARM and not shipping python and ruby by default, I see some drawbacks to the dev ecosystem. I know brew will package a ruby version to handle this but I do worry about the ARM switch. Linux used to be quite difficult, but I stuck with Ubuntu and the UX/UI has improved so much :)

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
sz4kerto 7y ago
The Docker/IO perf story is changing with WSL2 significantly.
- selfup 7y ago
  Yes indeed! And I will gladly attempt to finally dig into WSL at that point. For now I just use choco and pwsh and I find myself productive with go/node/elixir/rust without needing WSL just yet. I mainly use Windows for games but every now and then I don't want to leave my desktop to make some changes to a repo while my character is respawning/spectating or something haha WSL2 is going to be awesome for sure
  - craz8 7y ago
    I’m loving WSL2 on my Insiders build. But there are issues with local host networking and file updates to Windows apps right now that need to be worked around But it is very fast! The Insider build also green screens less often than the most recent general release did! Having Github available for issues is great too, as you can see progress being made in fixing the bugs - I feel more connected then when I actually worked inside Microsoft!
    - 3PS 7y ago
      I'm curious, are you still experiencing issues with localhost networking? I'd read that as of build 18945, those issues should mostly be fixed. [1] Or is it that you're hosting applications on Windows and trying to access them from Linux? [1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/whats-new-for-wsl-in-insiders-preview-build-18945/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/whats-new-for-wsl...
      - craz8 7y ago
        Some people still are - mine now works. I think it depends on your Linux server binding to 127.0.0.1 or 0.0.0.0 I’m currently working on cross host code, so being forced to use the Hosts file actually helped me out! I haven’t tried going from Linux to Windows via localhost though I do have issues running multiple Selenium tests with a headless browser. Running 1 process works ok though
- techntoke 7y ago
  5 years too late
zumu 7y ago
> I know brew will package a ruby version to handle this... Not to mention brew is vastly inferior to most Linux package managers (apt, yum, pacman, etc.)
- shrikant 7y ago
  I always assumed this is because Linux package managers such as apt and yum are first-class citizens on the platform, while Homebrew is a bit of a de-facto solution on macOS. This still holds, right?
  - techntoke 7y ago
    Could also have a lot to do with Ruby. Chocolatey is way worse though (Windows).
    - PhilippGille 7y ago
      Try Scoop on Windows instead of Chocolatey.
  - jessedhillon 7y ago
    No, macports is non-native as well and is an excellent, stable alternative, although Homebrew has slightly better coverage. Homebrew's main issue is that it was written from scratch, ignoring lessons from 30+ years of package management experience, and there's no obvious benefit that doing so has brought. Compared to macports, which is based on freebsd ports, Homebrew is brittle and normal operations frequently result in an inconsistent state. In my experience, unless your needs are extremely basic, sooner or later you'll run into an issue where the solution is basically to commit nuclear warfare on your filesystem and start over again. Also, expect to rely on random blog posts and stack overflow as the de facto user's guide (which maybe is just the state of the world for everything now.)
    - your-nanny 7y ago
      I've honestly never found a good reason to use brew instead of macports, aside from an annoying hipsterism. Welcome to try to convince me otherwise.
GordonS 7y ago
I also use Windows, Linux and MacOS, but mostly Windows. The "Moby" VM on Windows is a bit annoying - it takes 30s or so to start the Docker engine, bind mounts/volumes are a bit pernickety, and resource use is obviously higher than without a VM. Having said that, once it's started everything works pretty well, with containers starting almost instantaneously. I believe there are some IO perf issues if you're using WSL (I don't use it much, preferring git bash for most things). Both of these issues should be fixed when WSL2 finally arrives. But unless you're on an Insider's build, I believe that's going to be 2020 (someone please correct me if that's wrong).
- loudmax 7y ago
  Alongside pouring resources into the Windows Subsystem for Linux, it would be nice if MS would put some resources into a Linux Subsystem for Windows. That is, do for WINE what they've done for Cygwin.
  - iamwpj 7y ago
    I agree. I would argue that bring powershell to Linux is a good step in this direction, but it's missing some key components (Active directory...) still.
    - juststeve 7y ago
      Don't worry about Active Directory, just sign up to Azure.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    They have hardly done anything for cygwin. Windows NT had Windows Services for UNIX, replaced by Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications on Windows 2003 until Windows 8, eventually replaced by Windows Subsystem for Linux, given that now Linux API compatibility has became more relevant than straight POSIX code compatibility.
cpursley 7y ago
> Thinkpad Which Thinkpad model do you recommend? And which Linux distro do you use?
- xgb84j 7y ago
  Not gp, but I currently use a Lenovo T 480s dual booting Windows 10 Pro and Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and it's the best development setup I have used so far. No driver or hardware problems whatsoever.
  - selfup 7y ago
    Yea this is a great route as well! Considered it but found a deal I couldn't pass up on a refurb x1c6 haha
  - gawin 7y ago
    Second that T480s, love it. 24GB RAM, 2TB SSD. Booting OpenBSD, macOS and Linux. Scaling on WQHD display works solid. Only drawback is that the WWAN (4G) only works under Linux and the touchpad is not as good as in a MacBook Pro.
- selfup 7y ago
  YMMV but I use a X1 Carbon 6th Gen. 1080p/Matte screen. No dual boot so some things to tweak but not much at all tbh. Installed erpalma/throttled from github to squeeze my CPU perf to max. Also make sure to set sleep to S3 in BIOS. Otherwise nothing else to do. Everything seems to work just fine. The 7th Gen just came out so there might still be some issues but I would look around and see if it's good to go. I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. Once 19 is done I will more than likely move on to 20.04 LTS
  - sidek 7y ago
    My 7th gen X1 works on Ubuntu out of the box, except for an annoying trackpad bug that can be fixed with a one-line config file change.
    - 7y ago
lostgame 7y ago
> Then lastly macOS. I have had a mac since 2011. I am having a hard time with the direction Apple is going with their laptops. This, a thousand times this. I had a discussion earlier this week with the owner of a Mac repair shop of 15+ years here in Toronto, who lamented the release of any Mac portable since 2015 - saying 'thank God for the 2012-2015 units, or I would be out of business.' I told him I'd been buying Macs for 15 years, and during especially times like buying my first iBook at age 15, I absolutely relied on, and still rely on, purchasing a laptop with the intent to upgrade the RAM and the HDD/SSD in the future. With the laptops continually increasing in price, justified by tacking on useless features nobody wants, and then preventing upgrades, the laptops are out of reach for me to justify as an intermediate iOS developer. The 2017 models locked to 16GB are already virtually obsolete to a serious developer or film editor. I will not, would not, on principle, buy a computer whose hard drive is soldered to the Logic Board, if only for the sake of retaining the hard drive itself aside from the laptop. There is no possible, potential benefit a soldered hard drive, or soldered RAM, gives me, and the detriments far, far outweigh any benefits. Previously, if the hard drive or RAM got corrupted or damaged, I could replace those parts the same day. What now? Truly - and I mean truly, butterfly keyboard and lack of ports aside, even internally, Apple has finally gone from questionably being form of over function, to its focus on form over function being a literal insult to its long term dedicated users, and simply not responding to criticisms. So the media laughs at the Touch Bar, fans and critics deride it, and Apple's response - to cancel the non-touch bar version of the 13" MacBook Pro.
- b3b0p 7y ago
  You mention the RAM and hard drive, but it irks me more my keyboard is not replaceable. It's the most used moving component of the entire unit. It's exposed and susceptible to damage the easiest. I've hated every MacBook Pro since the release of the unibody. My favorite was the PowerBook 12 and 17. I've had a MacBook/PowerBook Pro (and Thinkpad) since Titanium and the First MacBook Pro and if it wasn't for the fact of macOS and the convenience of being in the Apple ecosystem with their iPhone, TV, HomePod(s), Watch, Music, and iCloud I would be back on Linux (I actually came from FreeBSD on my Thinkpad). I'm currently using a 2017 and 2018 MacBook Pro. The 2017 would be great except the keyboard (and of course the soldered RAM/HDD) is absolutely trash. The 2018 is much better, but nothing like a Thinkpad. I also miss the Trackpoint, but the Apple Trackpad is good. I miss my Thinkpad (+ BSD) bad, but being an iOS / web developer and entrenched in the Apple ecosystem (which I honestly like the convenience) I feel stuck and hard to even get a secondary machine. I even leave a fully maxed out P53 and P1 (I can't decide which one I want) in my Lenovo cart ready to buy at a given moment.
tracer4201 7y ago
I love MacOS. The only reason I have windows at all is for a few games. That being said, Apple has gutted the Macbook lineup. The hardware, especially the keyboard and touchbar, are utter trash and reminiscent of the dell and HP laptops around 2008, which were the reason I dumped those brands in the first place. All the pointless dongles were a moronic excuse to make thinner machines. They forgot about function and also failed to realize that aesthetic doesn’t matter if the keyboard is literally a dumpster fire. I wonder sometimes if Tim Cook is becoming senile or if he just don’t care since the iPhone was printing money.
- WWLink 7y ago
  I remember when it was the opposite. My PowerBook G4 from 2005 had DVI and S-Video. S-Video! Why would anyone in 2005 need an S-Video port?
  - lostgame 7y ago
    Projectors. Was a big deal back then.
mwfunk 7y ago
Totally tangential, but who could have predicted, 20 years ago, that in 2019, more than zero people would be talking about having to use Macs at work, then going home to their comfy PC. How the turns table. I increasingly don't have strong opinions either way (pros and cons to everything, etc.), it's just such an unexpected timeline we've ended up in.
- nineteen999 7y ago
  If it wasn't for Microsoft pumping millions into Apple around that time we very well may not be having the conversation now either. https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/08/06/august-6-1997----the-day-apple-and-microsoft-made-peace https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/08/06/august-6-1997----...

by selfup 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

sz4kerto 7y ago

The Docker/IO perf story is changing with WSL2 significantly.

selfup 7y ago
Yes indeed! And I will gladly attempt to finally dig into WSL at that point. For now I just use choco and pwsh and I find myself productive with go/node/elixir/rust without needing WSL just yet. I mainly use Windows for games but every now and then I don't want to leave my desktop to make some changes to a repo while my character is respawning/spectating or something haha WSL2 is going to be awesome for sure
- craz8 7y ago
  I’m loving WSL2 on my Insiders build. But there are issues with local host networking and file updates to Windows apps right now that need to be worked around But it is very fast! The Insider build also green screens less often than the most recent general release did! Having Github available for issues is great too, as you can see progress being made in fixing the bugs - I feel more connected then when I actually worked inside Microsoft!
  - 3PS 7y ago
    I'm curious, are you still experiencing issues with localhost networking? I'd read that as of build 18945, those issues should mostly be fixed. [1] Or is it that you're hosting applications on Windows and trying to access them from Linux? [1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/whats-new-for-wsl-in-insiders-preview-build-18945/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/whats-new-for-wsl...
    - craz8 7y ago
      Some people still are - mine now works. I think it depends on your Linux server binding to 127.0.0.1 or 0.0.0.0 I’m currently working on cross host code, so being forced to use the Hosts file actually helped me out! I haven’t tried going from Linux to Windows via localhost though I do have issues running multiple Selenium tests with a headless browser. Running 1 process works ok though
techntoke 7y ago
5 years too late

zumu 7y ago

> I know brew will package a ruby version to handle this... Not to mention brew is vastly inferior to most Linux package managers (apt, yum, pacman, etc.)

shrikant 7y ago
I always assumed this is because Linux package managers such as apt and yum are first-class citizens on the platform, while Homebrew is a bit of a de-facto solution on macOS. This still holds, right?
- techntoke 7y ago
  Could also have a lot to do with Ruby. Chocolatey is way worse though (Windows).
  - PhilippGille 7y ago
    Try Scoop on Windows instead of Chocolatey.
- jessedhillon 7y ago
  No, macports is non-native as well and is an excellent, stable alternative, although Homebrew has slightly better coverage. Homebrew's main issue is that it was written from scratch, ignoring lessons from 30+ years of package management experience, and there's no obvious benefit that doing so has brought. Compared to macports, which is based on freebsd ports, Homebrew is brittle and normal operations frequently result in an inconsistent state. In my experience, unless your needs are extremely basic, sooner or later you'll run into an issue where the solution is basically to commit nuclear warfare on your filesystem and start over again. Also, expect to rely on random blog posts and stack overflow as the de facto user's guide (which maybe is just the state of the world for everything now.)
  - your-nanny 7y ago
    I've honestly never found a good reason to use brew instead of macports, aside from an annoying hipsterism. Welcome to try to convince me otherwise.

GordonS 7y ago

I also use Windows, Linux and MacOS, but mostly Windows. The "Moby" VM on Windows is a bit annoying - it takes 30s or so to start the Docker engine, bind mounts/volumes are a bit pernickety, and resource use is obviously higher than without a VM. Having said that, once it's started everything works pretty well, with containers starting almost instantaneously. I believe there are some IO perf issues if you're using WSL (I don't use it much, preferring git bash for most things). Both of these issues should be fixed when WSL2 finally arrives. But unless you're on an Insider's build, I believe that's going to be 2020 (someone please correct me if that's wrong).

loudmax 7y ago
Alongside pouring resources into the Windows Subsystem for Linux, it would be nice if MS would put some resources into a Linux Subsystem for Windows. That is, do for WINE what they've done for Cygwin.
- iamwpj 7y ago
  I agree. I would argue that bring powershell to Linux is a good step in this direction, but it's missing some key components (Active directory...) still.
  - juststeve 7y ago
    Don't worry about Active Directory, just sign up to Azure.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  They have hardly done anything for cygwin. Windows NT had Windows Services for UNIX, replaced by Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications on Windows 2003 until Windows 8, eventually replaced by Windows Subsystem for Linux, given that now Linux API compatibility has became more relevant than straight POSIX code compatibility.

cpursley 7y ago

> Thinkpad Which Thinkpad model do you recommend? And which Linux distro do you use?

xgb84j 7y ago
Not gp, but I currently use a Lenovo T 480s dual booting Windows 10 Pro and Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and it's the best development setup I have used so far. No driver or hardware problems whatsoever.
- selfup 7y ago
  Yea this is a great route as well! Considered it but found a deal I couldn't pass up on a refurb x1c6 haha
- gawin 7y ago
  Second that T480s, love it. 24GB RAM, 2TB SSD. Booting OpenBSD, macOS and Linux. Scaling on WQHD display works solid. Only drawback is that the WWAN (4G) only works under Linux and the touchpad is not as good as in a MacBook Pro.
selfup 7y ago
YMMV but I use a X1 Carbon 6th Gen. 1080p/Matte screen. No dual boot so some things to tweak but not much at all tbh. Installed erpalma/throttled from github to squeeze my CPU perf to max. Also make sure to set sleep to S3 in BIOS. Otherwise nothing else to do. Everything seems to work just fine. The 7th Gen just came out so there might still be some issues but I would look around and see if it's good to go. I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. Once 19 is done I will more than likely move on to 20.04 LTS
- sidek 7y ago
  My 7th gen X1 works on Ubuntu out of the box, except for an annoying trackpad bug that can be fixed with a one-line config file change.
  - 7y ago

lostgame 7y ago

> Then lastly macOS. I have had a mac since 2011. I am having a hard time with the direction Apple is going with their laptops. This, a thousand times this. I had a discussion earlier this week with the owner of a Mac repair shop of 15+ years here in Toronto, who lamented the release of any Mac portable since 2015 - saying 'thank God for the 2012-2015 units, or I would be out of business.' I told him I'd been buying Macs for 15 years, and during especially times like buying my first iBook at age 15, I absolutely relied on, and still rely on, purchasing a laptop with the intent to upgrade the RAM and the HDD/SSD in the future. With the laptops continually increasing in price, justified by tacking on useless features nobody wants, and then preventing upgrades, the laptops are out of reach for me to justify as an intermediate iOS developer. The 2017 models locked to 16GB are already virtually obsolete to a serious developer or film editor. I will not, would not, on principle, buy a computer whose hard drive is soldered to the Logic Board, if only for the sake of retaining the hard drive itself aside from the laptop. There is no possible, potential benefit a soldered hard drive, or soldered RAM, gives me, and the detriments far, far outweigh any benefits. Previously, if the hard drive or RAM got corrupted or damaged, I could replace those parts the same day. What now? Truly - and I mean truly, butterfly keyboard and lack of ports aside, even internally, Apple has finally gone from questionably being form of over function, to its focus on form over function being a literal insult to its long term dedicated users, and simply not responding to criticisms. So the media laughs at the Touch Bar, fans and critics deride it, and Apple's response - to cancel the non-touch bar version of the 13" MacBook Pro.

b3b0p 7y ago
You mention the RAM and hard drive, but it irks me more my keyboard is not replaceable. It's the most used moving component of the entire unit. It's exposed and susceptible to damage the easiest. I've hated every MacBook Pro since the release of the unibody. My favorite was the PowerBook 12 and 17. I've had a MacBook/PowerBook Pro (and Thinkpad) since Titanium and the First MacBook Pro and if it wasn't for the fact of macOS and the convenience of being in the Apple ecosystem with their iPhone, TV, HomePod(s), Watch, Music, and iCloud I would be back on Linux (I actually came from FreeBSD on my Thinkpad). I'm currently using a 2017 and 2018 MacBook Pro. The 2017 would be great except the keyboard (and of course the soldered RAM/HDD) is absolutely trash. The 2018 is much better, but nothing like a Thinkpad. I also miss the Trackpoint, but the Apple Trackpad is good. I miss my Thinkpad (+ BSD) bad, but being an iOS / web developer and entrenched in the Apple ecosystem (which I honestly like the convenience) I feel stuck and hard to even get a secondary machine. I even leave a fully maxed out P53 and P1 (I can't decide which one I want) in my Lenovo cart ready to buy at a given moment.

tracer4201 7y ago

I love MacOS. The only reason I have windows at all is for a few games. That being said, Apple has gutted the Macbook lineup. The hardware, especially the keyboard and touchbar, are utter trash and reminiscent of the dell and HP laptops around 2008, which were the reason I dumped those brands in the first place. All the pointless dongles were a moronic excuse to make thinner machines. They forgot about function and also failed to realize that aesthetic doesn’t matter if the keyboard is literally a dumpster fire. I wonder sometimes if Tim Cook is becoming senile or if he just don’t care since the iPhone was printing money.

WWLink 7y ago
I remember when it was the opposite. My PowerBook G4 from 2005 had DVI and S-Video. S-Video! Why would anyone in 2005 need an S-Video port?
- lostgame 7y ago
  Projectors. Was a big deal back then.

mwfunk 7y ago

Totally tangential, but who could have predicted, 20 years ago, that in 2019, more than zero people would be talking about having to use Macs at work, then going home to their comfy PC. How the turns table. I increasingly don't have strong opinions either way (pros and cons to everything, etc.), it's just such an unexpected timeline we've ended up in.

nineteen999 7y ago
If it wasn't for Microsoft pumping millions into Apple around that time we very well may not be having the conversation now either. https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/08/06/august-6-1997----the-day-apple-and-microsoft-made-peace https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/08/06/august-6-1997----...