7 ms·

Apollo 15 postage stamp incident

133 points by danielsiders 7y ago

mimixco 7y ago
Fascinating. I'd never heard this. Also of interest are the "insurance covers" signed by Apollo 11 astronauts as a form of life insurance and mentioned in a linked Wikipedia article.
- daveslash 7y ago
  It wasn't just Apollo 11, it was Apollo 11-16. What blew me away about this was the fact that this was, in essence, DIY life-insurance because they couldn't get insurance. I never gave it much though; I just assumed that the U.S. government would have agreed "okay guys, if you get killed going to the moon, we'll make sure your families are taken care of". Guess not? From the Wikipedia page on Apollo Insurance Covers "The ability of astronauts to obtain much life insurance was limited, so they signed hundreds of postal covers before they left, on the presumption that they would become highly valuable in the event of their death." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_insurance_covers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_insurance_covers
dmix 7y ago
TIL what a "postal cover" was, and how "cancelled envelopes" work. Which made me realize how little I've ever used the postal services for actual letters in my life. My generation (late 80s / early 90s) must be one of the last to interact with the postal system when personally sending letters to people, rather than just parcels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail)
wbrasky 7y ago
why has the title been changed from "covers" (which is what they were) to "stamp" which is a less specific form of what they were? Why are we not just using the article title?
- gumby 7y ago
  I think most people would not understand the technical term “cover” while “stamp” clues them in that is is likely somehow postal related.
  - stordoff 7y ago
    "postal covers" (the article title) would seem to handle that.
    - mgkimsal 7y ago
      in my 40+ years of living in english speaking countries and sending thousand of pieces of postal mail over that time, i've never heard the phrase 'postal cover'. 'postal' is the only clue that indicates it's ... to do with 'postal' stuff.
- wyattpeak 7y ago
  Because most people have no idea what covers are, and unless you collect postage stamps the difference means nothing to you. If you'd asked me before I met a friend who collects, I would have assumed that using a stamp would render it worthless. The article's talk page actually has a similar discussion over whether to call them stamps or covers in the title, so although they come down on your side its hardly a given.
  - homero 7y ago
    I still don't understand what a cover is. Is it the cancellation stamp?
    - meemo 7y ago
      According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover they are "decorated, stamped and canceled commemorative envelopes" Essentially they are envelopes with stamps and a marking over the stamps that prevents the envelope and stamps to be used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail)
jedberg 7y ago
> some said astronauts should not be allowed to reap personal profits from NASA missions. That's an interesting ethical question. At what point is it ok for someone who got paid by the government to do a job ok to make extra money because of that fact. These days most Presidents get to write books about their time in the White House and make money. Buzz Aldrin still goes to cons and signs autographs for money. So where does the line belong?
- codingdave 7y ago
  It doesn't feel like the same situation. A better analogy would be running personal projects from your corporate servers, as you are using your professionally acquired access to resources you do not own for personal gain. There is little grey area there - unless you own the company, it isn't appropriate.
  - walrus01 7y ago
    Not really - each astronaut was specifically given a weight allocation (in grams) for personal effects, to be chosen at their discretion, for non mission related minor cargo. It's more like your work giving you written permission for a free 1RU of space and 2 amps of power and a DIA feed described for a personal test/development/project server, you installing a personally owned 1RU server in it and doing something useful with it, and then your work trying to claim the revenue from it.
    - pests 7y ago
      Except some were unlisted. Then it's like installing 2RU when they only wanted you to install 1RU. Then you increased their fuel/energy/etc costs and increased the lives of others as there are now unvetted things in space/your rack.
      - walrus01 7y ago
        I doubt that they didn't weigh the personal effects pouch accurate to within 1 gram beforehand, so whatever they brought, it was within the specified weight allowance.
m463 7y ago
I have an official flight cover from the challenger space shuttle. These covers didn't make it to the moon, but they flew on the shuttle and were officially sanctioned. They are a plentiful and inexpensive piece of history - you can get them on ebay for about $20 (search for "STS-8 cover" or similar)
qwertox 7y ago
They recently tried to auction one at 22.000€, but apparently it was too much. Still for sale, though. https://www.eppli.com/de/Product/DetailByNo?no=981734 https://www.eppli.com/de/Product/DetailByNo?no=981734
sara12386 7y ago
Even you can't believe there is a hen in world's biggest animals See the video how they looks and what they do https://cutt.ly/1rOU7Q https://cutt.ly/1rOU7Q Fish walking with legs like humans See the video on link below http://bit.ly/2XRGyYD http://bit.ly/2XRGyYD This couple is different Girls are both twins and boys are also twin brothers see how they look in video http://bit.ly/2VwoZQd http://bit.ly/2VwoZQd A cute dog is dancing in video Just watch this video and try to control your laugh http://bit.ly/2ZK1XVs http://bit.ly/2ZK1XVs .
interfixus 7y ago
The early astronauts made all kinds of extra on the side. Sponsored cars, magazine exclusives and various similar shenanigans. I didn't understand then (which I'm old enought to remember), and I do not understand now why the stamp incident was singled out and hammered so severely. Davis Scott had handled himself superbly during his two previous flights, and Apollo 15 was in all relevant respects a huge success, most visibly so for premiering the lunar rover and bringing back the genesis rock.
- caymanjim 7y ago
  There's a difference between running a side game on your own time and smuggling schlocky trinkets on a mission of national significance under a international spotlight. I suppose you can spin it as a triumph of capitalism, but most people would consider it an embarrassment.
  - sisu2019 7y ago
    It's only an embarrassment if you have a deep seated anti-commercial bias. Sure, your adjectives are quite invocative but let's contrast your prose with reality: > smuggling Taking something personal in the space assigned for personal use is not smuggling. > schlocky trinkets Envelopes from space are pretty neat and evidently highly valued by the people that ended up buying them. Those people now have something that is nearly unique and very special to them. Have you personally ever created or done something as meaningful for other people? > national significance No doubt. But how come a government bureaucracy like NASA can't make cool memorabilia like that to give to the fans that payed for all of it but can only watch? > international spotlight Few people cared about Apollo 15. It's actually already legendary how hard the public interest dropped off after the first few landings. > triumph of capitalism It is a triumph, absolutely. Hundreds of people got something really meaningful for them that they would not have gotten otherwise. The astronauts got a well earned pay off. Humanity got artifacts that will be preserved down the ages. Nobody was hurt or exploited. Win Win Win all around
    - simonh 7y ago
KnightOfWords 7y ago
From the title, I assume that when NASA realised they couldn't meet the Apollo 15 launch schedule they simply farmed the problem off to the Postal Service, by covering the rocket with stamps?

133 points by danielsiders 7y ago

Fascinating. I'd never heard this. Also of interest are the "insurance covers" signed by Apollo 11 astronauts as a form of life insurance and mentioned in a linked Wikipedia article.

daveslash 7y ago
It wasn't just Apollo 11, it was Apollo 11-16. What blew me away about this was the fact that this was, in essence, DIY life-insurance because they couldn't get insurance. I never gave it much though; I just assumed that the U.S. government would have agreed "okay guys, if you get killed going to the moon, we'll make sure your families are taken care of". Guess not? From the Wikipedia page on Apollo Insurance Covers "The ability of astronauts to obtain much life insurance was limited, so they signed hundreds of postal covers before they left, on the presumption that they would become highly valuable in the event of their death." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_insurance_covers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_insurance_covers

dmix 7y ago

TIL what a "postal cover" was, and how "cancelled envelopes" work. Which made me realize how little I've ever used the postal services for actual letters in my life. My generation (late 80s / early 90s) must be one of the last to interact with the postal system when personally sending letters to people, rather than just parcels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail)

wbrasky 7y ago

why has the title been changed from "covers" (which is what they were) to "stamp" which is a less specific form of what they were? Why are we not just using the article title?

gumby 7y ago
I think most people would not understand the technical term “cover” while “stamp” clues them in that is is likely somehow postal related.
- stordoff 7y ago
  "postal covers" (the article title) would seem to handle that.
  - mgkimsal 7y ago
    in my 40+ years of living in english speaking countries and sending thousand of pieces of postal mail over that time, i've never heard the phrase 'postal cover'. 'postal' is the only clue that indicates it's ... to do with 'postal' stuff.
wyattpeak 7y ago
Because most people have no idea what covers are, and unless you collect postage stamps the difference means nothing to you. If you'd asked me before I met a friend who collects, I would have assumed that using a stamp would render it worthless. The article's talk page actually has a similar discussion over whether to call them stamps or covers in the title, so although they come down on your side its hardly a given.
- homero 7y ago
  I still don't understand what a cover is. Is it the cancellation stamp?
  - meemo 7y ago
    According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_cover they are "decorated, stamped and canceled commemorative envelopes" Essentially they are envelopes with stamps and a marking over the stamps that prevents the envelope and stamps to be used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(mail)

jedberg 7y ago

> some said astronauts should not be allowed to reap personal profits from NASA missions. That's an interesting ethical question. At what point is it ok for someone who got paid by the government to do a job ok to make extra money because of that fact. These days most Presidents get to write books about their time in the White House and make money. Buzz Aldrin still goes to cons and signs autographs for money. So where does the line belong?

codingdave 7y ago
It doesn't feel like the same situation. A better analogy would be running personal projects from your corporate servers, as you are using your professionally acquired access to resources you do not own for personal gain. There is little grey area there - unless you own the company, it isn't appropriate.
- walrus01 7y ago
  Not really - each astronaut was specifically given a weight allocation (in grams) for personal effects, to be chosen at their discretion, for non mission related minor cargo. It's more like your work giving you written permission for a free 1RU of space and 2 amps of power and a DIA feed described for a personal test/development/project server, you installing a personally owned 1RU server in it and doing something useful with it, and then your work trying to claim the revenue from it.
  - pests 7y ago
    Except some were unlisted. Then it's like installing 2RU when they only wanted you to install 1RU. Then you increased their fuel/energy/etc costs and increased the lives of others as there are now unvetted things in space/your rack.
    - walrus01 7y ago
      I doubt that they didn't weigh the personal effects pouch accurate to within 1 gram beforehand, so whatever they brought, it was within the specified weight allowance.

m463 7y ago

I have an official flight cover from the challenger space shuttle. These covers didn't make it to the moon, but they flew on the shuttle and were officially sanctioned. They are a plentiful and inexpensive piece of history - you can get them on ebay for about $20 (search for "STS-8 cover" or similar)

qwertox 7y ago

They recently tried to auction one at 22.000€, but apparently it was too much. Still for sale, though. https://www.eppli.com/de/Product/DetailByNo?no=981734 https://www.eppli.com/de/Product/DetailByNo?no=981734

sara12386 7y ago

Even you can't believe there is a hen in world's biggest animals See the video how they looks and what they do https://cutt.ly/1rOU7Q https://cutt.ly/1rOU7Q Fish walking with legs like humans See the video on link below http://bit.ly/2XRGyYD http://bit.ly/2XRGyYD This couple is different Girls are both twins and boys are also twin brothers see how they look in video http://bit.ly/2VwoZQd http://bit.ly/2VwoZQd A cute dog is dancing in video Just watch this video and try to control your laugh http://bit.ly/2ZK1XVs http://bit.ly/2ZK1XVs .

interfixus 7y ago

The early astronauts made all kinds of extra on the side. Sponsored cars, magazine exclusives and various similar shenanigans. I didn't understand then (which I'm old enought to remember), and I do not understand now why the stamp incident was singled out and hammered so severely. Davis Scott had handled himself superbly during his two previous flights, and Apollo 15 was in all relevant respects a huge success, most visibly so for premiering the lunar rover and bringing back the genesis rock.

caymanjim 7y ago
There's a difference between running a side game on your own time and smuggling schlocky trinkets on a mission of national significance under a international spotlight. I suppose you can spin it as a triumph of capitalism, but most people would consider it an embarrassment.
- sisu2019 7y ago
  It's only an embarrassment if you have a deep seated anti-commercial bias. Sure, your adjectives are quite invocative but let's contrast your prose with reality: > smuggling Taking something personal in the space assigned for personal use is not smuggling. > schlocky trinkets Envelopes from space are pretty neat and evidently highly valued by the people that ended up buying them. Those people now have something that is nearly unique and very special to them. Have you personally ever created or done something as meaningful for other people? > national significance No doubt. But how come a government bureaucracy like NASA can't make cool memorabilia like that to give to the fans that payed for all of it but can only watch? > international spotlight Few people cared about Apollo 15. It's actually already legendary how hard the public interest dropped off after the first few landings. > triumph of capitalism It is a triumph, absolutely. Hundreds of people got something really meaningful for them that they would not have gotten otherwise. The astronauts got a well earned pay off. Humanity got artifacts that will be preserved down the ages. Nobody was hurt or exploited. Win Win Win all around
  - simonh 7y ago

KnightOfWords 7y ago

From the title, I assume that when NASA realised they couldn't meet the Apollo 15 launch schedule they simply farmed the problem off to the Postal Service, by covering the rocket with stamps?