8 ms·

Ask HN: Why is Facebook not having a harder time hiring?

25 points by kngspook 7y ago

With all repeated issues the company is suffering with their product strategy, software quality, privacy issues, executive retention, etc., why are people still eager to join the company?

thereare5lights 7y ago
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I mean really it shouldn't be surprising, they pay really well.
bifrost 7y ago
Because they get first pick of the good interns and they're still better than a couple of the other big places to work for.
jy1 7y ago
When you get paid $200k/yr right out of college, who's complaining?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- HNLurker2 7y ago
  Integrity
lizardking 7y ago
Because people like money
lallysingh 7y ago
Also lots of people aren't paying attention to that stuff.
diminoten 7y ago
Because they're not suffering with their product strategy, software quality, privacy issues, or executive retention. Don't believe what you read in the news.
rm999 7y ago
I know a lot of senior data people (read: high demand tech people) applying there right now. A few things: 1. People who work there are generally happy. Interesting problems to work on, a company where tech is respected, etc. 2. A lot of those issues you list are common in big tech, see Google. The people I know who are looking at Facebook may want to work at a bigger, more stable company. 3. As everyone else mentions, $$$. That said, Finance also pays similar rates but I don't see a lot of people fighting for those roles, so that doesn't fully explain it IMO.
galori 7y ago
Because of money obviously. If someone is out of a job for a month, especially if they don't have "deep" savings, they'll take the first or highest offer they get. Also, how do you know they aren't having a harder time hiring?
askafriend 7y ago
A lot of the issues are perceived to be overblown - and in more cases than HN would like to admit, they indeed are overblown. Quite a few double standards are being applied to Facebook by the media-industrial complex and the uninformed. On the other hand, Facebook has stumbled a lot on their own and deserve a significant portion of the criticism they get. It's a nuanced topic and isn't as simple as "FB bad, pls delete". Facebook also has an extremely talented employee base and they pay industry-high salaries while also doing cutting edge work. Smart people want to work with other smart people on interesting large-scale problems.
- Fins 7y ago
  ...and to hell with minor, uninteresting and not cutting-edge issues like impact on society.
  - askafriend 7y ago
    Or, alternatively: moderation at global scale with billions of pieces of content per day is an incredibly difficult, challenging, interesting, and impactful problem to work on and requires a lot of new technology. If you can reduce abusive patterns of misinformation on Facebook by a few percent, that's a huge win for both the company and for the billions of people affected by the service - by extension, society. This is likely the other side of the argument.
    - raquo 7y ago
      Yeah, it's very hard, all but impossible, when your primary constraint is maximizing profit while holding tons of market power in an unregulated environment. Poor facebook, they really try their best. It's just so hard.
      - askafriend 7y ago
        I think once you start thinking about the scope and scale of the problem, you'll start to realize how difficult it is even without the question of money involved at all (but yes, money does often complicate things). You have to remember that this is a global service cutting across all cultures, countries, governments, and circumstances. At some level, it becomes trying to design a system of governance that cuts across all those things in a scalable way. This is a problem where there is very little precedent. The original sin in my opinion was Facebook charging ahead with a historic rate of growth without building the rails (moderation systems, governance, etc) to support that growth. However, that ship has long sailed. Facebook is already massive now. It's easy to say with hindsight that the problems were obvious and to be expected. But the pressing question for society now is what do we do about it? Not just for Facebook but for all similar services - of which Facebook isn't the first and it won't be the last. And what software solutions will the industry invent to combat some of this stuff? Who is building it? How much is shared? How much is driven by regulation versus this stuff becoming a competitive moat? etc etc. It's a very interesting question and I look forward to progress in the area from all levels, including our legislators (whom I have little confidence in, but I'm an optimist at heart).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tudelo 7y ago
They pay 250k for someone with 2yoe. And have benefits better than 99 percent of companies (likely more than 99 percent honestly). Edit: And, a properly defined career ladder. Competitive stock refreshers and bonuses. Varied projects.
notacoward 7y ago
Interesting problems (not too many places you can do stuff at that kind of scale/impact), very pleasant environment within the company, and yes, money too. And there are a few who come precisely because of those troubles, to make things better instead of standing in a glass house throwing stones.
rinchik 7y ago
Because some support FB's mission of giving people the power to build community and bring the world closer together? Why majority thinks that everything what FB does is necessarily bad? It's not true at all and plainly evil propaganda.
- sgeneris 7y ago
  Oh, please, you can't be that gullible to believe Zuckerberg's marketing -- a guy who sued 300 people to build his Hawaii mansion. With people like you no wonder he gets away with all his crap.
mindgam3 7y ago
Because money trumps ethics in our society, and Facebook still looks like a good career move. But there will be a tipping point soon (next 12 months) when FB stock price begins to legit crash after another scandal finally breaks the camel's back. Hasn't happened yet with the FTC fine, but it will come. When their valuation is no longer up and to the right, the hiring situation will change dramatically.
wincent 7y ago
Interesting technical work, great peers, good comp. If you are a user, it's good to work on something that you use. If you're in the front-end space in particular, its exciting to work on things that have significantly changed the ecosystem. (Ex-Facebooker. When the Cambridge Analytica stuff went down I wasn't too thrilled, but above all I left because of lack of work-life balance.)
aussiegreenie 7y ago
Facebook is today's tobacco company. Tobacco companies need to pay 2-5 times to the "normal" rate to get people to work for them.
- askafriend 7y ago
  Why such an extreme comparison? Does the Television industry hit too close to home to not use as an analogy instead?
  - foolfoolz 7y ago
    netflix pays more than facebook
craftinator 7y ago
Honestly, for that money, I'd sell out. But I'd also make myself a huge thorn in the side after the first year anytime anything unethical was going on. If I got fired, I would ADD IT TO MY RESUME, that I left a job at FB making 150k because I took an ethical stand against nasty behavior. I'd have a big chunk of green in my pocket, come across as a coding saint to future employers, and they would KNOW that my last salary was 6 figures. It's really kinda awesome!
shishy 7y ago
Unfortunately, accountability and respect for privacy seem to be a meme these days
gouh 7y ago
Because Facebook hires skilled people, not great people.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
whenchamenia 7y ago
Pay > Ethics They will have to live with the consequenses when they are older. I hope it weights heavily on those that compromised their beliefs for a 'cool job'.
ochronus 7y ago
Why are people taking jobs in governments? In oil companies? In tobacco companies?
iliaznk 7y ago
Show me a big company without those kinds of problems.

25 points by kngspook 7y ago

With all repeated issues the company is suffering with their product strategy, software quality, privacy issues, executive retention, etc., why are people still eager to join the company?

thereare5lights 7y ago

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I mean really it shouldn't be surprising, they pay really well.

bifrost 7y ago

Because they get first pick of the good interns and they're still better than a couple of the other big places to work for.

jy1 7y ago

When you get paid $200k/yr right out of college, who's complaining?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
HNLurker2 7y ago
Integrity

lizardking 7y ago

Because people like money

lallysingh 7y ago

Also lots of people aren't paying attention to that stuff.

diminoten 7y ago

Because they're not suffering with their product strategy, software quality, privacy issues, or executive retention. Don't believe what you read in the news.

rm999 7y ago

I know a lot of senior data people (read: high demand tech people) applying there right now. A few things: 1. People who work there are generally happy. Interesting problems to work on, a company where tech is respected, etc. 2. A lot of those issues you list are common in big tech, see Google. The people I know who are looking at Facebook may want to work at a bigger, more stable company. 3. As everyone else mentions, $$$. That said, Finance also pays similar rates but I don't see a lot of people fighting for those roles, so that doesn't fully explain it IMO.

galori 7y ago

Because of money obviously. If someone is out of a job for a month, especially if they don't have "deep" savings, they'll take the first or highest offer they get. Also, how do you know they aren't having a harder time hiring?

askafriend 7y ago

A lot of the issues are perceived to be overblown - and in more cases than HN would like to admit, they indeed are overblown. Quite a few double standards are being applied to Facebook by the media-industrial complex and the uninformed. On the other hand, Facebook has stumbled a lot on their own and deserve a significant portion of the criticism they get. It's a nuanced topic and isn't as simple as "FB bad, pls delete". Facebook also has an extremely talented employee base and they pay industry-high salaries while also doing cutting edge work. Smart people want to work with other smart people on interesting large-scale problems.

Fins 7y ago
...and to hell with minor, uninteresting and not cutting-edge issues like impact on society.
- askafriend 7y ago
  Or, alternatively: moderation at global scale with billions of pieces of content per day is an incredibly difficult, challenging, interesting, and impactful problem to work on and requires a lot of new technology. If you can reduce abusive patterns of misinformation on Facebook by a few percent, that's a huge win for both the company and for the billions of people affected by the service - by extension, society. This is likely the other side of the argument.
  - raquo 7y ago
    Yeah, it's very hard, all but impossible, when your primary constraint is maximizing profit while holding tons of market power in an unregulated environment. Poor facebook, they really try their best. It's just so hard.
    - askafriend 7y ago
      I think once you start thinking about the scope and scale of the problem, you'll start to realize how difficult it is even without the question of money involved at all (but yes, money does often complicate things). You have to remember that this is a global service cutting across all cultures, countries, governments, and circumstances. At some level, it becomes trying to design a system of governance that cuts across all those things in a scalable way. This is a problem where there is very little precedent. The original sin in my opinion was Facebook charging ahead with a historic rate of growth without building the rails (moderation systems, governance, etc) to support that growth. However, that ship has long sailed. Facebook is already massive now. It's easy to say with hindsight that the problems were obvious and to be expected. But the pressing question for society now is what do we do about it? Not just for Facebook but for all similar services - of which Facebook isn't the first and it won't be the last. And what software solutions will the industry invent to combat some of this stuff? Who is building it? How much is shared? How much is driven by regulation versus this stuff becoming a competitive moat? etc etc. It's a very interesting question and I look forward to progress in the area from all levels, including our legislators (whom I have little confidence in, but I'm an optimist at heart).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

tudelo 7y ago

They pay 250k for someone with 2yoe. And have benefits better than 99 percent of companies (likely more than 99 percent honestly). Edit: And, a properly defined career ladder. Competitive stock refreshers and bonuses. Varied projects.

notacoward 7y ago

Interesting problems (not too many places you can do stuff at that kind of scale/impact), very pleasant environment within the company, and yes, money too. And there are a few who come precisely because of those troubles, to make things better instead of standing in a glass house throwing stones.

rinchik 7y ago

Because some support FB's mission of giving people the power to build community and bring the world closer together? Why majority thinks that everything what FB does is necessarily bad? It's not true at all and plainly evil propaganda.

sgeneris 7y ago
Oh, please, you can't be that gullible to believe Zuckerberg's marketing -- a guy who sued 300 people to build his Hawaii mansion. With people like you no wonder he gets away with all his crap.

mindgam3 7y ago

Because money trumps ethics in our society, and Facebook still looks like a good career move. But there will be a tipping point soon (next 12 months) when FB stock price begins to legit crash after another scandal finally breaks the camel's back. Hasn't happened yet with the FTC fine, but it will come. When their valuation is no longer up and to the right, the hiring situation will change dramatically.

wincent 7y ago

Interesting technical work, great peers, good comp. If you are a user, it's good to work on something that you use. If you're in the front-end space in particular, its exciting to work on things that have significantly changed the ecosystem. (Ex-Facebooker. When the Cambridge Analytica stuff went down I wasn't too thrilled, but above all I left because of lack of work-life balance.)

aussiegreenie 7y ago

Facebook is today's tobacco company. Tobacco companies need to pay 2-5 times to the "normal" rate to get people to work for them.

askafriend 7y ago
Why such an extreme comparison? Does the Television industry hit too close to home to not use as an analogy instead?
- foolfoolz 7y ago
  netflix pays more than facebook

craftinator 7y ago

Honestly, for that money, I'd sell out. But I'd also make myself a huge thorn in the side after the first year anytime anything unethical was going on. If I got fired, I would ADD IT TO MY RESUME, that I left a job at FB making 150k because I took an ethical stand against nasty behavior. I'd have a big chunk of green in my pocket, come across as a coding saint to future employers, and they would KNOW that my last salary was 6 figures. It's really kinda awesome!

shishy 7y ago

Unfortunately, accountability and respect for privacy seem to be a meme these days

gouh 7y ago

Because Facebook hires skilled people, not great people.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

whenchamenia 7y ago

Pay > Ethics They will have to live with the consequenses when they are older. I hope it weights heavily on those that compromised their beliefs for a 'cool job'.

ochronus 7y ago

Why are people taking jobs in governments? In oil companies? In tobacco companies?

iliaznk 7y ago

Show me a big company without those kinds of problems.