8 ms·

Librem 5 dev kits are shipping

253 points by arctux 8y ago

louib 8y ago
They're still aiming for a first release of the phones in Spring 2019 (this is from the newsletter, not the blog post)
- steve19 8y ago
  I really hope they succeed. Do you know what the specs of the phone are?
  - Ardren 8y ago
    I don't think they've announced final specs. But it will have a i.MX 8M SOC [1] and more than 2GB of ram [2]. The dev kit has a 720 x 1440 5.7" screen [3] (I assume this is the final screen). [1] https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-based-processors-and-mcus/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.mx-8m-family-armcortex-a53-cortex-m4-audio-voice-video:i.MX8M https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers... [2] https://puri.sm/posts/june-1st-last-call-for-librem5-devkit/ https://puri.sm/posts/june-1st-last-call-for-librem5-devkit/ [3] https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-2018-09-hardware-report/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-2018-09-hardware-report/
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  For anyone not in $DEFAULT hemisphere, I'm assuming this means Q2/March-ish 2019.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - chupasaurus 8y ago
    April as a target month was declared 2 or 3 months ago.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
freedomben 8y ago
Would be interested in some links to SDKs and/or style guides. As a developer, how do I get started writing my app to target the Librem 5? Went through the website and many forums but haven't found any definitive.
- dstaley 8y ago
  The phone runs PureOS, which is a Linux distro using the Gnome desktop environment. They're developing their own shell, called "phosh", that they plan to push upstream back to Gnome.
- pksadiq 8y ago
  > how do I get started writing my app to target the Librem 5? For commandline applications all you need is to develop for GNU/Linux. It should work pretty fine on Librem 5 too. If you want to develop GUI applications see libhandy[0], a GTK+ widget library developed by Purism for Librem 5. If you need to, you can get motivations from https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Design/app-mockups https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Design/app-mockups and HIG guide for GNOME is available at https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ [0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/libhandy https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/libhandy
  - oelmekki 8y ago
    Btw, I wonder : I intend to use KDE on librem 5 (at least eventually, if it's not ready on phone release). Do you know if mixing GTK and QT apps on the system will be as easy as on desktop?
- alexkavon 8y ago
  Here is a resource directly from them: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/ https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/
  - letstrynvm 8y ago
    Maybe I missed it, but it doesn't seem to cover setting up a cross toolchain and rebuild everything from source.
123919239 8y ago
Is there any document where they describe how their focus on security shapes pureOS? I'm seeing stuff like bundling some add-ons for the browser, and kernel patches. In my mind, securing users in 2018 means to have a decent password manager with an up-to-date browser, make sure that apps are sandboxed and prohibit the browser from accessing all my user's files. Do they tackle this?
- nonbel 8y ago
  Edit: Sorry, I realized you were only asking about the OS after making this post. Feel free to ignore. I think it looks like an interesting project and will buy one. I especially like the hardware kill switches. >Here are some benefits and key differentiators of the Librem 5, the world’s first ever IP-native mobile handset and the only user-respecting mobile phone product offering on the market: - Privacy protection by default, instead your profile and data being products sold to the highest bidder. - Does not use Android or iOS. The Librem 5 comes with the mobile version of our FSF-endorsed operating system PureOS by default, and is expected to be able to run most GNU+Linux distributions. - CPU separate from baseband, isolating the blackbox that the modem may represent and allowing us to seek hardware certification of the main board by the Free Software Foundation. - Hardware Kill Switches for camera, microphone, WiFi/Bluetooth, and baseband. - End-to-end encrypted decentralized communications via Matrix over the Internet. -We also intend the Librem 5 to integrate with the Librem Key security token in the future. Also see here: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-final-decision-about-kill-switches/3021 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-final-decision-about-kill-...
  - ajdhsjakafjt 8y ago
    No worries, it's part of the whole story. I don't particularly see the point of kill switches when you trust the software. I acknowledge the efforts in hardware integration they do. I'd love to see the Linux desktop being upgraded to Android's standards.
    - azdle 8y ago
      > I don't particularly see the point of kill switches when you trust the software. In my view it's two things: 1. It's defense in depth. No one person will ever be able to review every single line of code running their device, but anyone can crack open the case (and/or check the open schematics) and verify that flicking the switch kills the microphone. And 2. The baseband still has proprietary code running it that you can't verify so the only reasonable thing you can do to it is power it down.
subsubsub 8y ago
Every time Purism is mentioned on HN there are always people chiming in with negativity around how it's not open or secure or free enough, based on some unachievable metric of those things and with an side dose of utopian fantasizing. Buy one of these phones because you - Want a 'free' phone to exist in the future - Want an open source phone to exist in the future - Want a secure phone to exist in the future It may not be up to your standards now, but without your support (money) it will never exist. If you have the money to spend, then spend it. Consider it a donation to the cause.
- dman 8y ago
  Fully agree - there has been a lot of talk about an erosion of privacy, ads and consolidation in the tech sector. Viable alternatives will not emerge unless we fund them with individual purchasing decisions. We must remember that we are the invisible hand of Adam :) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand] Disclaimer: Views expressed are my own and do not have anything to do with my employer.
- narag 8y ago
  Is it possible to buy one of those phones? As in I pay and get a physical thing for the money in a couple of days? I ask because I wanted to buy a Firefox OS phone and it was impossible. There were preorders and non-official compatible terminals, but the official, all hardware working, reasonably featured ones were impossible to get.
  - stamps 8y ago
    Not yet. These are just the development kits. Apparently the phone is due in Q2 2019, though I find that unlikely. I do have one of their laptops. I paid and got it a week later, so they have shipped things.
- dustfinger 8y ago
  Agreed! As soon as I can afford one, I am buying two :-P. I sure wish that I new about the dev kit when it was still available to order :-(
dannyw 8y ago
Has anyone who pre-ordered the cancelled Librem 11 from Purism got their refund? I put money down more than a year ago. They didn't meet their MoQ, and so offered refunds or applying it to another product. I chose a refund almost two months ago, and I still have not received it despite many follow ups and shifting deadlines. I'm concerned that Purism may be having cash flow issues?
- ydrol 8y ago
  This is the concerning part for me and is why I have been holding off on this purchase (for reference, I check their website/twitter/mastodon for news/updates every second day or so). The price rise, while making sense, also says to me that they're trying to gain access to more funds now rather than in the future.
- alexeldeib 8y ago
  FWIW I cancelled a preorder (not the 11, the 15) and I got a full refund very quickly.
- emXdem 8y ago
  This was my exact experience with their laptops. All of them. Great that there is a company that wants to do this. Not great that they have 0 transparency around refunds and supplychain.
czbond 8y ago
I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down?
- stamps 8y ago
  OSX on a phone?
  - kbenson 8y ago
    There are librem laptops shown on the site.
    - emXdem 8y ago
      Good luck buying one. Took me 2 months to cancel my order, at least another month to receive my refund.
    - stamps 8y ago
      Ah, the laptops are great as well though a bit outdated now with the core counts climbing. I do have one and it works perfectly with most linux distros. I use manjaro to be specific.
- kbenson 8y ago
  > I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). PureOS is Debian based linux operating system.[1] > I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down? It depends entirely on how and who you trust. If you implicitly trust Apple and that their goal now (and in the future!) and that their team can vet all the code going in to the degree that no single or small group of developers there working in tandem could get a backdoor in place in either software or hardware, then I doubt there's a better choice given Apple's ability to design their own hardware and their complete control of the software stack. If you would rather trust in a large distributed group of people having public access to view and vet the source which is public and believe their vested interest in keeping the system is the better choice for continues security, choose an open source system wide wide use. 1: https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/ https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/
letstrynvm 8y ago
I have one of these on the way. The main surprise for me is they're shipping it without the lcd panel working. They can control the backlight. But no video. Now I'm participating in the gamble that can be made to function without rework, I'd at least like complete details, not "we are talking to the panel vendor".
- jononor 8y ago
  Hmm, that's ballsy. Not a good sign that they are making such risky moves, so soon in the project. But hardware is never easy. Lets hope it works out.
- megous 8y ago
  According to the status matrix, there's also no I2S from the BT/WWAN, meaning no audio from the modem and bluetooth. (probably meaning it's untested, or the driver/DT is missing)
  - blackcain 8y ago
    The modem audio is not sent over i2s with the SIMCom SIM7100, it is going over a USB connection as raw PCM and is managed by haegtesse. https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/haegtesse https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/haegtesse
    - megous 8y ago
      Interesting. Perhaps I can investigate if USB audio is possible with a USB connected 3G module I'm using in a tablet, too. That would certainly simplify some things. Thank you very much for a lead!
- blackcain 8y ago
  That's why the support channels were setup. Also, there still isn't a lot of details to share in the first place. The problem comes down to sending the initalization codes to the panel, which for some reason is not working. The conversations continues. Now you're as up to date as the rest of the librem 5 team. I didn't want to drop into overly technical detail as not everyone wants that. You are of course welcome to participate in the community forum that was setup to chat about the state of the dev kit.

253 points by arctux 8y ago

louib 8y ago

They're still aiming for a first release of the phones in Spring 2019 (this is from the newsletter, not the blog post)

steve19 8y ago
I really hope they succeed. Do you know what the specs of the phone are?
- Ardren 8y ago
  I don't think they've announced final specs. But it will have a i.MX 8M SOC [1] and more than 2GB of ram [2]. The dev kit has a 720 x 1440 5.7" screen [3] (I assume this is the final screen). [1] https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-based-processors-and-mcus/i.mx-applications-processors/i.mx-8-processors/i.mx-8m-family-armcortex-a53-cortex-m4-audio-voice-video:i.MX8M https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers... [2] https://puri.sm/posts/june-1st-last-call-for-librem5-devkit/ https://puri.sm/posts/june-1st-last-call-for-librem5-devkit/ [3] https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-2018-09-hardware-report/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-2018-09-hardware-report/
voltagex_ 8y ago
For anyone not in $DEFAULT hemisphere, I'm assuming this means Q2/March-ish 2019.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- chupasaurus 8y ago
  April as a target month was declared 2 or 3 months ago.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

freedomben 8y ago

Would be interested in some links to SDKs and/or style guides. As a developer, how do I get started writing my app to target the Librem 5? Went through the website and many forums but haven't found any definitive.

dstaley 8y ago
The phone runs PureOS, which is a Linux distro using the Gnome desktop environment. They're developing their own shell, called "phosh", that they plan to push upstream back to Gnome.
pksadiq 8y ago
> how do I get started writing my app to target the Librem 5? For commandline applications all you need is to develop for GNU/Linux. It should work pretty fine on Librem 5 too. If you want to develop GUI applications see libhandy[0], a GTK+ widget library developed by Purism for Librem 5. If you need to, you can get motivations from https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Design/app-mockups https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Design/app-mockups and HIG guide for GNOME is available at https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/ [0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/libhandy https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/libhandy
- oelmekki 8y ago
  Btw, I wonder : I intend to use KDE on librem 5 (at least eventually, if it's not ready on phone release). Do you know if mixing GTK and QT apps on the system will be as easy as on desktop?
alexkavon 8y ago
Here is a resource directly from them: https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/ https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/
- letstrynvm 8y ago
  Maybe I missed it, but it doesn't seem to cover setting up a cross toolchain and rebuild everything from source.

123919239 8y ago

Is there any document where they describe how their focus on security shapes pureOS? I'm seeing stuff like bundling some add-ons for the browser, and kernel patches. In my mind, securing users in 2018 means to have a decent password manager with an up-to-date browser, make sure that apps are sandboxed and prohibit the browser from accessing all my user's files. Do they tackle this?

nonbel 8y ago
Edit: Sorry, I realized you were only asking about the OS after making this post. Feel free to ignore. I think it looks like an interesting project and will buy one. I especially like the hardware kill switches. >Here are some benefits and key differentiators of the Librem 5, the world’s first ever IP-native mobile handset and the only user-respecting mobile phone product offering on the market: - Privacy protection by default, instead your profile and data being products sold to the highest bidder. - Does not use Android or iOS. The Librem 5 comes with the mobile version of our FSF-endorsed operating system PureOS by default, and is expected to be able to run most GNU+Linux distributions. - CPU separate from baseband, isolating the blackbox that the modem may represent and allowing us to seek hardware certification of the main board by the Free Software Foundation. - Hardware Kill Switches for camera, microphone, WiFi/Bluetooth, and baseband. - End-to-end encrypted decentralized communications via Matrix over the Internet. -We also intend the Librem 5 to integrate with the Librem Key security token in the future. Also see here: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-final-decision-about-kill-switches/3021 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-final-decision-about-kill-...
- ajdhsjakafjt 8y ago
  No worries, it's part of the whole story. I don't particularly see the point of kill switches when you trust the software. I acknowledge the efforts in hardware integration they do. I'd love to see the Linux desktop being upgraded to Android's standards.
  - azdle 8y ago
    > I don't particularly see the point of kill switches when you trust the software. In my view it's two things: 1. It's defense in depth. No one person will ever be able to review every single line of code running their device, but anyone can crack open the case (and/or check the open schematics) and verify that flicking the switch kills the microphone. And 2. The baseband still has proprietary code running it that you can't verify so the only reasonable thing you can do to it is power it down.

subsubsub 8y ago

Every time Purism is mentioned on HN there are always people chiming in with negativity around how it's not open or secure or free enough, based on some unachievable metric of those things and with an side dose of utopian fantasizing. Buy one of these phones because you - Want a 'free' phone to exist in the future - Want an open source phone to exist in the future - Want a secure phone to exist in the future It may not be up to your standards now, but without your support (money) it will never exist. If you have the money to spend, then spend it. Consider it a donation to the cause.

dman 8y ago
Fully agree - there has been a lot of talk about an erosion of privacy, ads and consolidation in the tech sector. Viable alternatives will not emerge unless we fund them with individual purchasing decisions. We must remember that we are the invisible hand of Adam :) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand] Disclaimer: Views expressed are my own and do not have anything to do with my employer.
narag 8y ago
Is it possible to buy one of those phones? As in I pay and get a physical thing for the money in a couple of days? I ask because I wanted to buy a Firefox OS phone and it was impossible. There were preorders and non-official compatible terminals, but the official, all hardware working, reasonably featured ones were impossible to get.
- stamps 8y ago
  Not yet. These are just the development kits. Apparently the phone is due in Q2 2019, though I find that unlikely. I do have one of their laptops. I paid and got it a week later, so they have shipped things.
dustfinger 8y ago
Agreed! As soon as I can afford one, I am buying two :-P. I sure wish that I new about the dev kit when it was still available to order :-(

dannyw 8y ago

Has anyone who pre-ordered the cancelled Librem 11 from Purism got their refund? I put money down more than a year ago. They didn't meet their MoQ, and so offered refunds or applying it to another product. I chose a refund almost two months ago, and I still have not received it despite many follow ups and shifting deadlines. I'm concerned that Purism may be having cash flow issues?

ydrol 8y ago
This is the concerning part for me and is why I have been holding off on this purchase (for reference, I check their website/twitter/mastodon for news/updates every second day or so). The price rise, while making sense, also says to me that they're trying to gain access to more funds now rather than in the future.
alexeldeib 8y ago
FWIW I cancelled a preorder (not the 11, the 15) and I got a full refund very quickly.
emXdem 8y ago
This was my exact experience with their laptops. All of them. Great that there is a company that wants to do this. Not great that they have 0 transparency around refunds and supplychain.

czbond 8y ago

I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down?

stamps 8y ago
OSX on a phone?
- kbenson 8y ago
  There are librem laptops shown on the site.
  - emXdem 8y ago
    Good luck buying one. Took me 2 months to cancel my order, at least another month to receive my refund.
  - stamps 8y ago
    Ah, the laptops are great as well though a bit outdated now with the core counts climbing. I do have one and it works perfectly with most linux distros. I use manjaro to be specific.
kbenson 8y ago
> I'm in love with the mission - but don't want to really have to switch ecosystems again (from Linux --> Apple --> PureOS). PureOS is Debian based linux operating system.[1] > I love OSX - could I not do the same with OSX by tightening it down? It depends entirely on how and who you trust. If you implicitly trust Apple and that their goal now (and in the future!) and that their team can vet all the code going in to the degree that no single or small group of developers there working in tandem could get a backdoor in place in either software or hardware, then I doubt there's a better choice given Apple's ability to design their own hardware and their complete control of the software stack. If you would rather trust in a large distributed group of people having public access to view and vet the source which is public and believe their vested interest in keeping the system is the better choice for continues security, choose an open source system wide wide use. 1: https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/ https://puri.sm/posts/what-is-pureos-and-how-is-it-built/

letstrynvm 8y ago

I have one of these on the way. The main surprise for me is they're shipping it without the lcd panel working. They can control the backlight. But no video. Now I'm participating in the gamble that can be made to function without rework, I'd at least like complete details, not "we are talking to the panel vendor".

jononor 8y ago
Hmm, that's ballsy. Not a good sign that they are making such risky moves, so soon in the project. But hardware is never easy. Lets hope it works out.
megous 8y ago
According to the status matrix, there's also no I2S from the BT/WWAN, meaning no audio from the modem and bluetooth. (probably meaning it's untested, or the driver/DT is missing)
- blackcain 8y ago
  The modem audio is not sent over i2s with the SIMCom SIM7100, it is going over a USB connection as raw PCM and is managed by haegtesse. https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/haegtesse https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/haegtesse
  - megous 8y ago
    Interesting. Perhaps I can investigate if USB audio is possible with a USB connected 3G module I'm using in a tablet, too. That would certainly simplify some things. Thank you very much for a lead!
blackcain 8y ago
That's why the support channels were setup. Also, there still isn't a lot of details to share in the first place. The problem comes down to sending the initalization codes to the panel, which for some reason is not working. The conversations continues. Now you're as up to date as the rest of the librem 5 team. I didn't want to drop into overly technical detail as not everyone wants that. You are of course welcome to participate in the community forum that was setup to chat about the state of the dev kit.