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Unidentified Plane-Bae Woman’s Statement Confirms the Worst
- coldseattle 8y agoThe whole story was just odd. If it wasn’t a fake stunt, it was sad and pathetic for an overweight woman with no sexual capital to take creepshots of a fit healthy couple for her own pleasure. For some reason, women were allowed to get away with this and I’m glad there’s finally pushback.
- ebbv 8y agoIsn’t kinda the point of her statement that she isn’t unidentified? She was made famous by somebody else without her knowledge and consent. When a production crew wants to use footage of you in a show they have to get you to sign a release. There probably needs to be some form of this for online exposure as well. What form that would take is a difficult question.
- paidleaf 8y ago> She was made famous by somebody else without her knowledge and consent. She was made famous by the attention-seeking couple, her "plane boyfriend" and the exploitive media. It's amazing how such a nonstory was milked by everyone for publicity and profit. And the theatlantic is still going at it. If the poor woman wants privacy, how about theatlantic stop writig about the "Plane-Bae Woman"? How about focus on the couple who "set her up" to gain media following? How about focus on the "plane boyfriend" who knew about the couple filming them and used that for publicity by appearing all over TV and hinting that the unsuspecting woman had sex with him in the plane bathroom ( probably because the producer told him they needed juicy story from him ). Or most importantly, how about the atlantic shine a light on itself and the media which turn a non-story into a major story because they need to exploit everything and everyone for money? The story should be on everyone but the woman and yet the title is "Plane-Bae Woman". And the atlantic is lying when they say "unidentified" woman when the "boyfriend" identified her and the media spent an entire week exploiting this woman and this story. Instead of "Unidentified Plane-Bae Woman...", how about "Everything Wrong with the Media and Attention Seeking People"? Put the focus on the problem, not the victim.
- cuckcuckspruce 8y agoIf they did that then they'd have to admit to themselves and the world that they're only making the situation worse, not better, by focusing on these types of stories.
- ghaff 8y agoAnd while they're at it, I hope there have been consequences, if only some serious soul searching, for the Alaska Air and T-Mobile PR people who apparently jumped on this.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y agoWhile I agree it’s really awful for the “legitimate” companies to jump on this - in reality it wasn’t a boardroom decision, it was some millennial they put in charge of the twitter account who has been raised with the same lack of awareness and social respect as the clowns that recorded it to begin with.
- ghaff 8y agoYes. That's one reason I wouldn't be calling for anyone's head over it. As you suggest, it's probably one or more young, inexperienced PR/social media people at those companies who thought they were doing something clever. I'd much rather these and other companies take it as an opportunity to reconsider their actions and put better policies in place rather than firing someone so as to be seen as "doing something."
- dragonwriter 8y ago> in reality it wasn’t a boardroom decision, it was some millennial they put in charge of the twitter account The controls and policies on corporate communication channels are an executive decision, even if not every individual action implementing them is not.
- s-shellfish 8y ago> If the poor woman wants privacy, how about theatlantic stop writig about the "Plane-Bae Woman"? That honestly oversimplifies the issue. There's a narrative out there, that is clearly affecting how random people are interacting with her, not to mention her perception of herself. Sometimes you have to control the narrative with the other perspective after the problem happens to mitigate the damage. Stuff like this is never simple, it affects real people. Real people have to be talked about after real people are talked about unfairly. Not everything can be generalized, abstracted, and distilled into a philosophy.
- Gargoyle 8y agoThere's no reason existing media release forms wouldn't work in this instance.
- sorenjan 8y agoI hate how everything has to be public nowadays. If you do something silly or embarrassing you need to take into account that everybody have cameras with them at all times, and enough people have no qualms about posting others private moments online for the world to see. I'm a private person, I don't want videos or pictures of me available for everyone. To be constantly surrounded by internet connected cameras definitely makes me less likely to risk look like an ass, even among friends.
- sp332 8y agoTelling a few friends used to be the default, and telling everybody took more effort. Now the default is for people to share their comments with ~2 billion people. It's actually more work to tell only your friends.
- sorokod 8y agoNo need to do silly or embarrassing things - an "amusing" voice over commentary will be enough to bury you.
- ghaff 8y agoIt gets rather bothersome. My professional life at least is pretty public and it's sort of my job. But I'm pretty happy that there weren't ubiquitous cameras and videos around when I was younger. In practice, most of us are somewhat protected by sheer numbers and the fact that people move on and a lot of information does effectively rot over time. Balanced against that though is the increasingly number of cameras and automated recognition and categorization systems. And the whole mob mentality. Obviously in the cases where it has actually led to deaths. But also in the, perhaps rare, but well-documented cases where a stupid off-hand remark or action triggers the social media machine and the path of least resistance is career-ending firings and the like.
- shp0ngle 8y agoThe lesson of the story: don't say anything publicly to anyone ever, because everyone around has a camera in their pocket and is way too hungry for internet points.
- noobermin 8y agoFurther isolating ourselves would hurt in other areas. As someone else said, we need a cultural change, one where we need not to have to constantly distrust other people because they respect boundaries. One of the best ways to do this would be to reduce the amount of value stupid internet popularity points seem to matter and push dopamine buttons.
- extradego 8y ago>way too hungry for internet points The most disturbing part of all of this is the presumption that there is some inherent motivation to do this kind of thing. To me, the whole behavior is so unnecessary that mere consideration of whether it justifies exploiting a stranger without their permission is unquestionably shameful. But yet, we are treating this like something our (grand)parents never taught us. (I say “grandparents” becuse the Great Generation has generally more respectable standards for personal interaction than baby-boomers, for whom exploitation in the name of personal gain is what so often gets them out of bed in the morning.)
- matz1 8y agoIt's the opposite, be as public as much as you can. If your life already mostly public, the incident like this likely won't hurt you much.
- sixstringtheory 8y agoSo can I walk around in my birthday suit now?
- ythn 8y agoThere's no technological or legal solution to this problem (short of draconian), the solution is a cultural one.
- devwastaken 8y agoconsent to record someone is a thing. Some states are only one party consent, some require both.
- ryandrake 8y agoStrong two party consent everywhere and no exception for "public spaces" would go a long way.
- HankB99 8y agoI'm sure that United would have appreciated that kind of regulation when they had that guy drug off one of their planes.
- prepend 8y agoI think this would have more negative effects than positive. There’s the aspect of it’s now impossible to run security cameras or film police beating people. But what about hearing aids and vision assistance devices? Does HoloLens become impossible without consent from everyone?
- lobotryas 8y agoReally? Then you could sue me for recording you committing a crime? Ok, let's add an exception for really obvious cases. What if you are taken to trial and later found not guilty (despite my recording being used as evidence against you). Can you sue me now? You can see how deep the rabbit hole goes. Beware unintended consequences. If you're in a public place then I have every right to record you.
- ghaff 8y agoThat's absolutely right. This was clearly obnoxious on the part of at least a couple people as well as the "mob." And it may have violated some clandestine recording statute depending on what jurisdiction it took place in. But I can't feel that the solution is some sort of right to be forgotten on steroids where anyone can get media that don't like for any reason to be taken down across social media and search. (Probably not practical anyway even if people were OK with that--which they wouldn't be.)
- wallflower 8y agoI fear we are all one misstep away from going viral for all the wrong reasons. In a world where people die taking ill-advised selfies and YouTube is glutted with pranking videos that all try to one up each other, it seems that exposure and attention is the new currency. The problem is that they can use and discard you if you are doing something that fits their narrative for attention. And then you have online mobs. With wildfire falsehoods. For example, people were killed in India because of false rumors spread on WhatsApp: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/02/asia/india-lynching-whatsapp-intl/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/02/asia/india-lynching-whats...
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- pavel_lishin 8y ago> “We do it everyday to celebrities. No difference. Outrage culture is so dumb,” wrote one Instagram user below a BuzzFeed News post on the story. I don't think this commenter understands that celebrities choose to put themselves in the spotlight.
- watwut 8y agoMaybe we should think about fact that celebrities are people too more often.
- everdev 8y agoEven still, isn't it ok for celebrities not to want to share every detail of their life?
- thrill 8y agoThe same celebrities that want to dictate every detail of others' lives?
- steve_adams_86 8y agoExplain?
- sorokod 8y agoNot the op but I'll give it a try. When a " celebrity" advertises perfumes, watches, clothing, erectile disfunction therapies, etc... they intentionally blend the gap between their public persona and private life for profit. In such circumstances it is hypocritical in my opinion to complain of invasion of privacy as they literally sold parts of it to the public. It is with a 100% certainty that the simple and the easily excitable will see this as an invitation to get closer. Edited to clarify my point.
- Joeboy 8y agoDo you think somebody who's appeared in an advert should ever be allowed to seek an injunction against a stalker? Or is that just a choice they've made and have to live with?
- ArtWomb 8y agoSo she's retained counsel and preparing to file a suit? Against whom? $TWTR? The only viable strategy in the current media saturated clime is to embrace the attention. Every human on earth now possesses a mobile news studio in their pocket. There is no such thing as bad publicity for your own personal brand. If caught with your pants down. Put it in your bio. And re-invent yourself as the #planebae matchmaker offering services at a discounted rate for followers! There is another viral media piece today about the discovery in Mythic Ireland by dronespotters. Circulating around the hashtag #NewHenge. It's the discovery of a lifetime. Has spread around the world in a matter of days. And will probably result in eternal archaeological renown for the finders on a Heinrich Schliemann level of glory. Or at least, they'll never have to buy a pint in County Meath for the rest of their lives. There is no hiding from the World anymore. Just embrace your own true authentic self.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> Against whom? Against the woman who posted the Tweets, I would imagine? Perhaps also against the companies which encouraged it, like T-Mobile?
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- zaphar 8y agoI wonder if a lawsuit alleging sander and line would apply here. I actually hope that the couple and the news organizations who started the whole thing get sued.
- gfodor 8y agoWhat would the game theoretic outcome be if this kind of thing were facilitated at scale by an AI? Ie, imagine a world where your chance of being globally exposed like this was a non-trivial measure due to ever present AI generating memes based on public human behaviors? I wonder if the end result is a society wide abandonment of "fan in" [1] capable media like Twitter. [1] https://codahale.com/fan-in/ https://codahale.com/fan-in/
- taneq 8y agoLower risk, I'd think, than now. There's only room for a few concurrent big memes on the internet, and the risk of becoming one of those is split among all of the people exposed to it. AI generating an increased flood of it would just increase the noise.
- coldseattle 8y agoI’m glad there’s finally push back on this behavior. I remember just a few years ago when a woman was made a Hero by posting photos of a group of man, one of whom—-and which one wasnt revealed—may have told a joke about “dongles” to the other two.
- jokoon 8y agoWhat is weird is that there doesn't look like any law was broken, does it? I was arguing with a female friend who strongly argues that people have the right to their own image, so it should be forbidden to take picture of them. On the other hand, when you go into a public place, you should be photographed because it is a matter of freedom of speech: we should be able to record people committing crimes or felonies. I guess that it should be illegal to record people without their knowledge, if they are not committing any crime, meaning as long as the person recording is not doing it for legal or investigative purposes. But to be honest, the problem to me, again, is how people behave online and how they gang with each others. Harassing, doxxing, and insulting people online should have consequences. It's really bad that people will write things online they might never say in front of people. There is always a grey area about what you can do and not do about data that has other people in it. The internet has not been a good thing for privacy.
- ghaff 8y agoIt depends on the jurisdiction (2 party consent vs. 1 party, etc.). It depends if there was an "expectation of privacy." It depends if the image or video is being used for a commercial purpose like advertising. [ADDED: I'm mostly discussing the US here.] This case is probably questionable but, to your point, if I take a picture of you canoodling in a public park I'm perfectly within my rights to publish that image so long as it's not for marketing or advertising purposes (if people are recognizable).
- Gargoyle 8y agoI think the tweeter may end up having problems over the fact that she did try to exploit the tweets for fame and advantage. If it had been just sharing observations about something happening around her, she'd likely be fine. Trying to gain personally from the story makes it much more shaky on an ethical level for me. And there's no excuse for encouraging people to seek out the subject's identity. Awful idea all around.
- masklinn 8y ago> This case is probably questionable but, to your point, if I take a picture of you canoodling in a public park I'm perfectly within my rights to publish that image so long as it's not for marketing or advertising purposes (if people are recognizable). It depends on the jurisdiction. Mainland europe tends to have pretty strong personality rights, especially (but not solely) for non-public persons (e.g. people who aren't politicians or athletes or stars or more generally in the public consciousness). And in many countries there you would not be within your rights to publish a specific image of a couple "canoodling in a public park". You would if you were taking a picture of something else entirely (e.g. a crowd, a public event, a landmark or monument) and they just happened to be in the frame, but not if they were the subject.
- awinder 8y agoSeinfeld and Galifianakis had an interesting chat in Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee about privacy & fame. What I took from it is that people broadly have different privacy expectations and even would label the same settings as public vs. private. Anyways, I was already thinking about that conversation, but it’s even more interesting to see it played down to the level of any random person.
- lostmsu 8y agoHow about we drop that sort of privacy altogether? It is only a problem because people are taught to keep their personal lives personal.
- imsofuture 8y agoGreat point. When did you last have sex and with who? Can you post your picture and theirs for us?
- lostmsu 8y agoThat's very googlable: I am married. Do you really want to know the exact hour?
- ajross 8y ago...posts the anonymized account. You don't really think that's a solution. You just want it to be a solution for everyone else.
- LyndsySimon 8y agoOn the other hand, I use my real full name here and most everywhere else. I agree that explicitly rejecting anonymity is a solution, but strongly disagree that it would work for everyone or should be forced on anyone.
- ghaff 8y agoI agree it wouldn't work for everyone but I actually find using True Names a good filter for my own actions. When I write something, it forces me to ask whether I'm OK with people associating it with real me. And if I'm not, with fairly rare exceptions, that's probably because it's something mean, snarky, or offensive that probably doesn't really improve the Internet in any way.
- nicwolff 8y agoOK – you first! Everything you do or say in public will now be documented and that documentation easily searchable under your real name. Have a nice day!
- coldcode 8y agoBesides the disgusting nature of this "stunt", having commercial entities like the Alaska Airlines and T-Mobile is where the disgust really goes up the scale, a good deed - really? Can I record the CEO of Alaska Airlines' family in their backyard and broadcast it widely on Twitter, is that a good deed? No, it isn't.
- sorokod 8y agoNo - not a good deed, but very educational.
- ljm 8y agoI feel like modern tech and social media are exposing just how little we respect boundaries, as a culture and a society. This is a huge violation but it happens all the time. It’s terrifying, and because those whose boundaries are violated quite rightly choose to stay anonymous, you only hear the projection from those who have deluded themselves into thinking they’re doing good, despite the fact it was never asked for. There are good deeds and then pure sociopathy; ego massaging, narcissism...I have to wonder how much envy was involved in that. This isn’t about losing privacy in public, it’s respecting the fucking boundaries. People need their space, they don’t need others leeching from it to benefit themselves.
- Confusion 8y agoThere's no need to lay the blame at 'culture' and 'society'. The problem is that you only need a thousand assholes in the million that read your story to cause major problems. Even in the most amazing culture and society you may expect 1 in a 1000 to be an asshole. I think most humans are reasonable people. Many are even great people, no matter how much you may disagree with them about many small things. The problem is just the 1 asshole in a 1000 that has an outsized influence.
- ljm 8y agoBlame isn’t a good word for this (not what I intended either) because it suggests superiority, knowing better. If we are not engaged in leading by example then it does come back to culture and society. So, I agree but not entirely. Twitter and modern social media is practically a democratized manifestation of the paparazzi and the gossip mag. Gossip in this form is toxic as fuck - we’re not small villages where everybody knows each other any more.
- projektir 8y agoThe effect of these things is often significant due to how poorly managed some channels are, though. And it's not always due to large size, it happens in schools all the time and we call it bullying. For instance, this kind of thing could affect your job and lose you your job, which shouldn't actually be a thing, and we should ask why is this a thing or why is this a problem? Consider SWATting, it only works because there's a framework in place to make it work. Why are threats effective? A lot of this is preexisting problems that manifest in bullying and stalking and frankly they're not handled very well, the victim often has little to no recourse. So it more seems like we do not have good solutions to these issues, socially OR legally.
- Jamerson 8y agoSlavery. She was forced to be an unpaid improv performer in an entertainment business.
- sctb 8y agoCould you please post more thoughtful, informative comments here? Inflammatory metaphorical one-liners don't cut it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- lkrubner 8y agoIf you disrupt someone's career, or their personal life, to advance your own career and fame, then you are certainly liable for damages, in the normal legal sense, unless you can prove public interest. If the targeted woman had been an elected politician, it might be possible to prove public interest, but in this case, public interest, in the legal sense, seems unlikely. And Blair has already admitted she did this to advance her career: ----------------- “I’m an actress, comedian and a writer and so is my dude. Also if anyone wants to send us plane tickets we are more than happy to try and find your very own #PlaneBae,” she tweeted, before asking for a job at BuzzFeed. Brands also jumped into the fray, as brands are wont to do. Alaska Airlines called what Blair did a “good deed” and offered her a free flight. T-Mobile offered Blair free Wi-Fi. ---------------------
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- zamalek 8y agoBlair has posted a public apology.[1] It's arguably self-serving and there are people defending her actions. This whole situation is what is wrong with social media; refined and concentrated. [1]: https://mobile.twitter.com/roseybeeme/status/1016711281670225927 https://mobile.twitter.com/roseybeeme/status/101671128167022...
- stevew20 8y agoThis is why I support physical violence! If more people were to also follow this mantra, it would immunize all of us from assholes who seek to ruin our lives on the way to fame.
- qbrass 8y agoThey can use violence too. And since you okayed, it. They're justified in posting pictures of you lying bloodied in the street, saying karma's a bitch.