7 ms·

As someone who completed a (on-campus) CS masters at GT, I really wish I didn't. The classes were of very poor quality - it was clear that they were a low prior

As someone who completed a (on-campus) CS masters at GT, I really wish I didn't. The classes were of very poor quality - it was clear that they were a low priority for most faculty. Andrew Ng's Coursera class on Machine Learning was the pedagogical highlight of my time at GT, and I did it on my own initiative (and it's free). I know people have many reasons to get a Masters. If your goal is to take some higher-level classes, you can do better than GT. If you are self-motivated enough to do an online degree, you can do it for free. Aside from free offerings from sites like Coursera, you can find whole courses up from many institutions - with syllabi, lecture slides, homework assignments, etc. If you're planning to do it for the salary, in my experience the degree ended up being worth a $95K to $115K bump in starting salary. Compare this with the 2 years of industry salary that I would have received, and the 2 years of experience (and raises that come with that). I know I wasn't paid better than the folks who had been with the company for 2 years more than me. If you're thinking about it for the sake of your resume, I do hiring screening / interviews now (for Data Science and Software Engineering positions) - and I really don't care if the applicant has an MS or not (or what classes they may have taken). Most folks I know that do hiring think similarly. My main signal from your resume is projects you've been on and how you contributed. From my point of view, this program is a losing proposition for any potential student.

zardeh 10y ago
[disclosure: GT CS alum] >Andrew Ng's Coursera class on Machine Learning was the pedagogical highlight of my time at GT, and I did it on my own initiative (and it's free). This is something I wanted to highlight from your post. I don't think this is surprising, nor do I think it is reasonable to state that a course (or a degree program) is poor quality because it didn't meet the standards of Ng's ML course. That is an exceedingly high bar. Its something I noticed, because I am a recent grad, so while I was in my mid-level courses, and had recently taken Tech's intro CS course, I was able to watch (Harvard's) CS50 and other courses. But on the other hand, I've seen some very bad online courses. The successful and large online courses are successful and large specifically because they are head and shoulders better than the rest. And there are a lot of decent online courses, so to measure against what are some of the absolute best online courses is to measure against courses that have more resources, more planning, and more feedback than most. (as an aside, they also have more incentive to be good, but that's a bit tangential to the point that they also have more opportunity to be good). You type in "Machine Learning" on coursera and you get over 1000 results (not all of which are relevant, but assuming even 10% are), its little wonder that one or two are going to be better than the even the best courses that you'll take during a bachelors or masters, because Coursera offers more Machine Learning courses than most people will take in their Bachelors or Masters. Combine that with these courses coming prefiltered (you've heard of the Stanford Course, but what about "Applied Text Mining in Python" from UMichigan, which for all I know might be great, but it doesn't come with the hundreds of recommendations that the Ng course does, so I don't know that it will be great) and you have a really great recipe for a bias against the in person courses.
djsumdog 10y ago
I have both a B.S. and M.S. in Computer Science. I didn't get my Masters because I wanted a higher pay grade (although the company I was working for at the time did reimburse a large amount of it), it was to get out of industry. From my first job, I realized life in a cube wasn't for me. I really wanted to be in front of a classroom. I realize there are problems with academia. I know you have the same squabbles and competition you have in the corporate world, and seeking certain grants to keep yourself afloat can cut into the research you actually want to do. Still, I really wanted to teach. I've seen so many professors who only work one or two jobs, or go straight from BS -> MS -> PhD with very little industry experience. I wanted to be a different type of professor with plenty of real work experience to drawn on and teach from. Grades don't matter. I've found that's very true for industry. Having a GPA on your CV doesn't really mean anything and most people leave it off. However, it has a huge impact on getting into degree programs. I only had a 2.5 undergrad and even though I got a 3.2 in grad school, it wasn't enough for most programs I looked at. I attempted and failed to get into 8 schools back in 2009 (ironically, one that I later worked for and could get free classes at. PhD programs however, are full-time). Today I have three publications that I'm 2nd author on, and in 2015 I attempted to get into school once again. I contacted several professors. Most simply don't write you back, but even when I got in touch with several schools, many simply didn't have any professors who were willing to take students in my field (environmental sensor research). It's really competitive to get back into school and there is a massive disconnect right now between industry and academia. You get out of any education what you put into it. You can leave with just a basic understanding of computer science and only know two languages leaving an outstanding program. You can also go to a crap program and push yourself to learn more on your own; using what professors teach as a jumping board for a lot more. The TL;DR I'm getting at is that masters programs do have a purpose: getting you into a PhD program. If your work pays for it, it might be worthwhile for the additional title, but if not, you're not going to learn anything you couldn't apply yourself to on your own.
elif 10y ago
It is kind of funny in a post about a program which costs under $10k to have the top rated comment complain about a similar one _only_ adding $20k/yr of value.
syngrog66 10y ago
also just read, think, build, repeat, for free. at own pace. own schedule.
tomcam 10y ago
> in my experience the degree ended up being worth a $95K to $115K bump in starting salary. Wait... isn't this kind of a good reason to suffer through the course?
codezero 10y ago
This is interesting. I had heard good things about the program, so I'd love to hear more about what ultimately went wrong. What track were you on? Do you think that had anything to do with it? What did your peers think about the program? A $95 to $115k bump sounds pretty darn good. Did you already have a CS undergrad degree? Where from? Sorry for all the questions, feel free to share as little or as much as you're willing.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
  At least one prof there takes UML seriously, and demands that his online students use it. I count that as a bad thing, but what do I know?
- tedmiston 10y ago
  That bump was written ambiguously / confusingly. I think parent comment met a $20k bump from $95k to $115k, not BS base + $95k–115k.
  - rconti 10y ago
    ah. First thing I did was search the page for "95" to figure out WTF was going on. thanks.
  - codezero 10y ago
    Ah, of course, you're right. That makes a lot more sense. I'm not sure what I was thinking :P
- throwawayGT 10y ago
  I was on the Machine Learning track. Already had a CS degree from a prestigious school. I took classes primarily in the ML concentration, although I had to take some courses in theoretical cs and they were similar. I'd say my peers generally shared my opinion (classes not being very good). Many of them were trying to get into PhD programs so they were focusing on finding research opportunities and didn't care about the quality of classes much. Some struggled but blamed themselves for this rather than the class. (I'd say this was very common amongst the undergrads too). Of the PhD students I knew, most were discouraged from taking classes altogether, since it took away time from research. This was true even in the first year of their program. The general attitude from that side was that classes were a waste of time. Many higher-level classes were run as mini-research projects. You'd get some content, then the rest of the class would be forming teams, proposing project ideas, implementing, writing up results and having 'mini conferences'. I think faculty liked this since it was a good way to try out research ideas, recruit potential PhD students, and give their current students extra time to work on their research. Nothing wrong with that format, of course, but the actual coverage of content was typically superficial. If you weren't already familiar with the area, you had to figure it out on your own as you went along. Also, this is not a class format that translates to online very well.
theflork 10y ago
It sounds like you did the on-campus program at GT, so you took time off work to complete it. It's hard to argue with the fact that losing the wages to do that is a lot of missed opportunity. However.... I think majority of people that take OMSCS (I am in my 2nd semester) and this new OMSA program do so part time while still maintaining their fulltime jobs and families. Also, why the throwaway?
- ftrflyr 10y ago
  It strikes me as odd that the parent used a throwaway as well. What are they trying to hide?
  - lsaferite 10y ago
    Maybe they don't want their salary being public?
  - peller 10y ago
    Is not another possibility that they'd like to keep face / maintain positive relationships with their network from the school?
  - icantdrive55 10y ago
    Retribution from administration at Georgia Tech? Or, being labeled a Troll for telling the truth? These schools are businesses too. Maybe too much business? It's becoming easy to find out who's posting on on HN, especially if person divulged personal information. (Hacker news should have a way to hide previous comments. Personally, I don't post much here anymore. I had some moderator spam me, and Google Indexes these conversatations within hours, for all eternity?) Who knows what someone on the sales department, oops Admissions Office, might slip out here? I'm all for "outing" schools that really don't teach. I have found that most people go into a weird denial about the colleges they went to once they graduated. I won't even tell the truth about the undergraduate, and graduate school I attended. I knew that 80%, or 90% of the courses I was required to take were busy work, or poorly executed. It didn't bother me because when I went to school, the price was doable, and it was better than working. Now--it's a different story.
mixmastamyk 10y ago
What you say is often true, however there are a number of places that will shitcan your resume if it doesn't have an advanced degree on it. For example SpaceX, but there are others, often in technical fields. Also, hang in there. The degree may not have helped your current job as much as you'd like, but it may help more at a future company. Sadly we often need to change jobs to get a real salary bump.
- pmcollins 10y ago
  The great thing about the premature resume shit-canning is that it leaves a ton of talent available for smaller or lesser known employers.
LordKano 10y ago
I completed an Information Security and Assurance MS at a different school and in retrospect, I wish I had done it online instead. I could have done it for 1/3-1/4 of the cost and in the same amount of time but with far less time spent commuting.
donretag 10y ago
I also graduated with a MSCS from GT. While I agree that a Masters degree is not a good signal for a job candidate, having Georgia Tech as your last institution of study instead of your potentially "lower" undergraduate program is. The question remains is if an online degree has the same credibility. Looking back at my time at GT, I cannot see how operating solo, without the constant feedback from your peers and faculty, is as good. There is more than just what is in the study material. The other question is if the entrance requirements are still as stringent.
- png_hero 10y ago
  Silicon Valley hiring manager here. From my perspective, unfortunately, Georgia Tech has really diluted the value of their masters in cs degree. They have become a sort of immigration visa-mill with very many India undergrad -> Georgia Tech Masters of very questionable skill level. Just my experience.
  - agentgt 10y ago
    GT grad here (1999-2003). While I'm not Indian I do have a ton of Indian friends and yes GT does have a large Indian percentage (by observation from when I was there). I can't speak if the CS degree has been diluted but I will say there is an enormous amount of extremely undeserved selective bias against Indian people for technology jobs. When US citizens even see Indian names there are less likely to hire (known as name bias). Again I can't speak for the programs but my Indian friends that went to tech were at the top of their class both in MS and BS. Highly qualified. Extremely humble, ambitious and hungry. Just my experience (and I run a recruiting software company so I see it at scale). I compare this to the apathetic divas that I have met from Stanford and MIT (I live in Mass so I have met many MIT grads). I would hire a GT grad over them any day.
    - uptownfunk 10y ago
      CMU has done this too unfortunately with their online MS degrees.
ftrflyr 10y ago
I am a current OMSCS student. Your situation is anecdotal at best. You are critiquing an in person experience to an online experience.
- whorleater 10y ago
  > You are critiquing an in person experience to an online experience. GT goes out of its way to say that the online experience and physical experience offer the same degree, is it not fair to compare them?
  - filoleg 10y ago
    Same degree != same experience. Just like the same course within the same institution can offer different experience depending on the instructor.
    - ethbro 10y ago
      Isn't that the norm as you continue along the education path? E.g. someone who did a PhD with one advisor vs another
- nkozyra 10y ago
  Perhaps this is the rare place where a more impersonal interaction helps avoid some of the negatives outlined above. Anecdotally I've felt all of the professors are eminently interested in interacting with MS students online.
lordCarbonFiber 10y ago
I think you're looking at it in both a false comparison (opportunity costs for online are very different than your on campus experience; not to mention the explicit costs) and backwards (as to who is looking to get this degree). The margins on adding a MS CS (or analytics) is less for a CS grad, but at 10k a degree and the flexibility of taking online they are huge for non-CS majors looking to pivot. 10k to bump your salary up 20k (while working and getting experience + raises) plus the knowledge add pays for itself. Im biased on account of being in the program (supplementing my Electrical Engineering degree due to a change in career and life paths), and I know a lot more about graph theory, formal algorithms, and high efficiency computing than I did a year ago. These are things that help improve both your portfolio of rigorous projects (Im currently working to port over all of my high performance computing assignments to Rust) and assortment of tools for the ever annoying CS interview.
rayiner 10y ago
I was in the aerospace department as an undergraduate, and my impression was that everything at GT takes a back seat to the PhD programs.
- arcanus 10y ago
  This is pretty common at all the top Engineering departments, nowadays. My doctorate was at Texas, and it certainly catered primarily to what brings in the $$: e.g. research.
  - nvarsj 10y ago
    Yep, welcome to every research based university in the world. Even B.S. degrees take a back seat. I think OMSCS is good because they seem to at least be trying to improve the non-research track experience.
jsolson 10y ago
I did both my BSCS and MSCS at Georgia Tech. While I have many complaints about the school, the quality of the classes is not one of them, for either the undergrad or grad programs. That said, with a couple of notable exceptions, the graduate classes are there for PhD students as first and second year background material so they have some starting points for their research. This naturally leads to a format where the semester can effectively be described as a long reading list of papers and lectures to spur discussion on the content of the paper. I was planning on pursuing a PhD when I started into my MS, so this format worked quite well for me at the time. In the years subsequent to that, the grounding from those classes has given me starting points for deep dives into problems I encountered at work[0]. It's interesting that you brought up machine learning. Charles Isbell's Intro ML class was a significant exception to the pattern I described above. In addition to high quality, pre-prepared lectures peppered with entertaining anecdotes, the had high quality projects that worked with pratcial tooling. It was also probably the highlight of my graduate career[1]. [0]: In particular, the material covered in my graduate systems classes has been invaluable for not reinventing the wheel for the thousandth time. The material from the couple compilers classes I took on a whim has been a huge boon when talking about software correctness. I work on the hypervisor underneath GCE. Correctness is near and dear to my heart, but performance is right there with it :) [1]: For undergrad that dubious honor has to go to Olin Shivers, not only because of his eclectic teaching style, but also because his class completely altered the way I think about problems in computer science. In particular, my mindset shifted to one of models of computation and decomposition of problems into subproblems for which the simplest model could apply. I have an example I'd like to write up, but it's a bit long for a footnote.
- crusso 10y ago
  Charles Isbell is still at GT? Holy cow. I think he was the teaching assistant when I was taking VAX assembly back in the late 80's when I was there. Seemed like a nice guy. It's amazing how you don't think of someone for almost 30 years, but you read their name in a comment on HN and memories come flooding in. What do those neurons do while they're waiting to be used again?
  - gte525u 10y ago
jps359 10y ago
I'm enjoying the MSCS program online so far and am also doing the ML specialization. I work full-time as a software engineer and just do the coursework part-time. My experience so far is that the assignments and learning are as rigorous as you want them to be. I'm getting exactly what I'm looking for out of it (a somewhat structured environment to learn in), so for me I would say this isn't a losing proposition.
jsokol1 10y ago
I'm sorry you didn't like the on-campus experience at Georgia Tech -- but the online program sounds like a clear win. For less than $10,000 tuition, you could've gotten a top-10 degree and your $20,000-per-year salary increase... all while still working, so you would've also accumulated raises and experience while finishing the degree.
- throwawayGT 10y ago
  The question would be whether the time spent on this program compares to what one would be able to accomplish on their own, and whether the difference is worth the price tag. From my experiences with GT, I am apprehensive about the quality of content - I assume it's coming from the same departments and professors that I had experience with. From other comments here it seems that the approach this program took was quite different from the one employed on campus, so that apprehension may be unfounded - that is, the online offerings may be of higher quality than what students on campus receive. Still, I felt like I needed to post something to warn people that the branding of GT does not in-and-of-itself mean that the content will be of high quality. Students considering the program should try and find some way to evaluate this - are there sample classes or lectures posted online? Perhaps ask someone you trust in the industry to take a look and give you their feedback. Still, I think students who are self-motivated should consider what they would be able to accomplish if they took some time to organize a study program for themselves. There are many free high-quality resources out there that could be used for effective self-directed study. Students who are less confident about doing it on their own should be asking themselves what sort of support they expect to be getting from the program. Certainly there are many advantages in having things curated for you, as well as having access to discussion boards with other students going through the same material. Aside from that, many students (unfortunately, I think), need the external schedule and commitment - and for them, merely having an exam deadline, or the $10K investment looming in the background may be the thing needed to get through the material. Those students, too, should be realistic about the investment they are making and what they hope to get out of it.
- zild3d 10y ago
  I agree, and the $10k tuition would be likely covered by your employer. Some of the more expensive online MS programs still have significant out of pocket expenses if they are $40k or so
g051051 10y ago
I just graduated from the OMSCS (online master of science in computer science) program, and I found it a wholly worthwhile experience. It was challenging, informative, and for the most part well-run. Software Analysis and Test in particular was a real eye-opener. And while Computability, Complexity, and Algorithms was a hideous death march of terror, the material they covered was some of the most interesting I've ever experienced. Yes, you can study the same material on your own, but you won't earn a degree from it. Now that I've got the degree, I'm in much better shape to pursue further learning on my own. Note, however, that I didn't do this to improve my resume, go fishing for a new job, or try to get a raise. With tuition reimbursement from my company I only spent $3500 over 2 1/2 years to earn a full-fledged master's degree. Based on the above, I can't agree that it's a losing proposition.
- brianbreslin 10y ago
  How much time did you spend on coursework per week? Were you working full time while you did this program?
  - g051051 10y ago
    Yes, I worked full-time. I'm fortunate in that I WFH, so I could allocate the time I'd have had to commute to school, figure 90 minutes a day. I'm married but have no children, so I didn't have that requiring my attention. Then I'd augment with whatever additional time was needed (at the expense of World of Warcraft). I'd figure for a "light" class that had a fair amount of coding or was in a subject area that I had considerable experience would be 10-15 hours a week. A semester with 2 classes of moderate difficulty would be 20-30 hours a week, depending on homework pacing, amount of videos and readings to study, etc. The hardest class I took was my last class in December called Computability, Complexity, and Algorithms (CCA) and at the end I was doing 35+ hours a week trying to get ahead. It was hugely difficult due to my very weak math background, but I somehow got the hang of it and passed with a decent "B" and graduated.
- 72mena 10y ago
  "Now that I've got the degree, I'm in much better shape to pursue further learning on my own." Could you explain a bit more what do you mean with this statement? Is it that you feel better prepared to study advanced topics (like advanced ML/Data Science) or was the degree a requirement for something else you wanted to pursue? I'm curious about what other "doors" having this degree opens, other than the bump in salary mentioned by others. Congrats for completing the program btw.
thearn4 10y ago
For what it's worth, GA Tech is an amazing school, but I do think they are far more known for their traditional graduate engineering programs (aero, mechanical, electrical, etc.) than CS.
- duck 10y ago
  These are sadly not linked to the sources, but they have ranked high for a number of years in CS - http://www.cc.gatech.edu/facts-rankings http://www.cc.gatech.edu/facts-rankings.
intended 10y ago
Perhaps The degree matters to people who are transitioning in from a 0 experience background?
asdfGUYasdfn 10y ago
Advanced degrees are just money grabs, and people hid from the recession in college classrooms around this country. The only problem with that, is that college institutions are businesses, so it only raised the debt on each individual that did so, that will take another 20 years to pay down at the prices being charged for an education. My 2c is that most people won't even see the paycheck return on their education over the course of their career which makes it a shame. Do I feel higher education is a waste? No ... do I feel its NOT for everyone? absolutely. Maybe this was the engagement of the student vs. the quality of education or vis versa, I can't say. However, college is what you make of it and you need to go into with open eyes. Especially with such things as this.
nvarsj 10y ago
Really? Pretty much all feedback for OMSCS has been very positive. It sounds like you're bitter about something, or had a particularly bad experience. Can you provide more details about classes you thought were poor and what was poor about them?
- throwawayGT 10y ago
  I am bitter about having spent time, money and emotional energy on something that I felt I got no value out of, and I want to warn people thinking about doing the same.
  - nvarsj 10y ago
    Fair enough. I think your complaints though can apply to most degrees attained at big research universities. Certainly my own at a top undergrad C.S. had its share of terrible teachers and classes - it's a problem across the board, not just at gatech. And by all accounts, as OMSCS is focused on the classes and not research, much of this has improved (with some outliers like the CS6505 algo class, and some others). My own experience was doing about half of an M.S. about a decade ago before dropping out to go right into work, due to money constraints. I don't regret taking those classes at all though - I learned a lot because I put a lot into it, and it's knowledge I've used throughout my career. I find it hard to believe doing an M.S. at gatech would have no value at all - I guess it depends what you plan on doing and how you will use it.
Kaedon 10y ago
I'm enrolled in the OMSCS program currently (nearly graduated) while working full time. I started the program because I was already taking the online courses with Coursera, edX, etc, and it felt like a natural fit to get a degree while I continued to do so. I didn't have a Computer Science undergrad degree, so perhaps I have a different outlook on this than you did. I'm currently working as a software engineer, so I'm also not forgoing earning a living by taking the time off from school. In other words, while I can understand why you feel disappointed by your educational experience, there are other lenses through which this program makes sense. I feel good about having gone through it so far and I'm looking forward to finishing.
markmcdonald 10y ago
> From my point of view, this program is a losing proposition for any potential student. Although I agree with your sentiment (formal education has a lot of flaws), a full-fledged degree potentially solves other problems than just improving your resume to get a better/higher paying job for engineers. Family pressure, lack of confidence that comes with not having a formal CS undergraduate degree, or motivation and structure that comes from paying for a formal program could all contribute to someone choosing this path. A $10k, online masters program from GT seems like a good option for some people.
ozgung 10y ago
According to http://www.mastersindatascience.org/schools/23-great-schools-with-masters-programs-in-data-science/ http://www.mastersindatascience.org/schools/23-great-schools... it's one of the best data science programs out there. Is there any other one that you can recommend?
- throwawayGT 10y ago
  I haven't gone through other programs, so I can't say from personal experience. There are no programs that have stood out to me during hiring to predict the quality of the candidate. If you're a student looking at programs, I would prioritize the amount and quality of individual attention you stand to receive. A self-directed student can do well anywhere (including on their own). If you're not so stubborn/resilient, having a good community and mentorship to help you overcome difficult times is key.
nether 10y ago
> The classes were of very poor quality - it was clear that they were a low priority for most faculty. I took a master's in aerospace engineering at a top tier school and I wonder if this is the norm for grad engineering courses, and for many lower-level undergrad courses as well (think massive freshman calculus lectures). To calibrate what you consider "poor quality," how did you find the quality of your undergrad engineering courses?

zardeh 10y ago

[disclosure: GT CS alum] >Andrew Ng's Coursera class on Machine Learning was the pedagogical highlight of my time at GT, and I did it on my own initiative (and it's free). This is something I wanted to highlight from your post. I don't think this is surprising, nor do I think it is reasonable to state that a course (or a degree program) is poor quality because it didn't meet the standards of Ng's ML course. That is an exceedingly high bar. Its something I noticed, because I am a recent grad, so while I was in my mid-level courses, and had recently taken Tech's intro CS course, I was able to watch (Harvard's) CS50 and other courses. But on the other hand, I've seen some very bad online courses. The successful and large online courses are successful and large specifically because they are head and shoulders better than the rest. And there are a lot of decent online courses, so to measure against what are some of the absolute best online courses is to measure against courses that have more resources, more planning, and more feedback than most. (as an aside, they also have more incentive to be good, but that's a bit tangential to the point that they also have more opportunity to be good). You type in "Machine Learning" on coursera and you get over 1000 results (not all of which are relevant, but assuming even 10% are), its little wonder that one or two are going to be better than the even the best courses that you'll take during a bachelors or masters, because Coursera offers more Machine Learning courses than most people will take in their Bachelors or Masters. Combine that with these courses coming prefiltered (you've heard of the Stanford Course, but what about "Applied Text Mining in Python" from UMichigan, which for all I know might be great, but it doesn't come with the hundreds of recommendations that the Ng course does, so I don't know that it will be great) and you have a really great recipe for a bias against the in person courses.

djsumdog 10y ago

I have both a B.S. and M.S. in Computer Science. I didn't get my Masters because I wanted a higher pay grade (although the company I was working for at the time did reimburse a large amount of it), it was to get out of industry. From my first job, I realized life in a cube wasn't for me. I really wanted to be in front of a classroom. I realize there are problems with academia. I know you have the same squabbles and competition you have in the corporate world, and seeking certain grants to keep yourself afloat can cut into the research you actually want to do. Still, I really wanted to teach. I've seen so many professors who only work one or two jobs, or go straight from BS -> MS -> PhD with very little industry experience. I wanted to be a different type of professor with plenty of real work experience to drawn on and teach from. Grades don't matter. I've found that's very true for industry. Having a GPA on your CV doesn't really mean anything and most people leave it off. However, it has a huge impact on getting into degree programs. I only had a 2.5 undergrad and even though I got a 3.2 in grad school, it wasn't enough for most programs I looked at. I attempted and failed to get into 8 schools back in 2009 (ironically, one that I later worked for and could get free classes at. PhD programs however, are full-time). Today I have three publications that I'm 2nd author on, and in 2015 I attempted to get into school once again. I contacted several professors. Most simply don't write you back, but even when I got in touch with several schools, many simply didn't have any professors who were willing to take students in my field (environmental sensor research). It's really competitive to get back into school and there is a massive disconnect right now between industry and academia. You get out of any education what you put into it. You can leave with just a basic understanding of computer science and only know two languages leaving an outstanding program. You can also go to a crap program and push yourself to learn more on your own; using what professors teach as a jumping board for a lot more. The TL;DR I'm getting at is that masters programs do have a purpose: getting you into a PhD program. If your work pays for it, it might be worthwhile for the additional title, but if not, you're not going to learn anything you couldn't apply yourself to on your own.

elif 10y ago

It is kind of funny in a post about a program which costs under $10k to have the top rated comment complain about a similar one _only_ adding $20k/yr of value.

syngrog66 10y ago

also just read, think, build, repeat, for free. at own pace. own schedule.

tomcam 10y ago

> in my experience the degree ended up being worth a $95K to $115K bump in starting salary. Wait... isn't this kind of a good reason to suffer through the course?

codezero 10y ago

This is interesting. I had heard good things about the program, so I'd love to hear more about what ultimately went wrong. What track were you on? Do you think that had anything to do with it? What did your peers think about the program? A $95 to $115k bump sounds pretty darn good. Did you already have a CS undergrad degree? Where from? Sorry for all the questions, feel free to share as little or as much as you're willing.

0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
At least one prof there takes UML seriously, and demands that his online students use it. I count that as a bad thing, but what do I know?
tedmiston 10y ago
That bump was written ambiguously / confusingly. I think parent comment met a $20k bump from $95k to $115k, not BS base + $95k–115k.
- rconti 10y ago
  ah. First thing I did was search the page for "95" to figure out WTF was going on. thanks.
- codezero 10y ago
  Ah, of course, you're right. That makes a lot more sense. I'm not sure what I was thinking :P
throwawayGT 10y ago
I was on the Machine Learning track. Already had a CS degree from a prestigious school. I took classes primarily in the ML concentration, although I had to take some courses in theoretical cs and they were similar. I'd say my peers generally shared my opinion (classes not being very good). Many of them were trying to get into PhD programs so they were focusing on finding research opportunities and didn't care about the quality of classes much. Some struggled but blamed themselves for this rather than the class. (I'd say this was very common amongst the undergrads too). Of the PhD students I knew, most were discouraged from taking classes altogether, since it took away time from research. This was true even in the first year of their program. The general attitude from that side was that classes were a waste of time. Many higher-level classes were run as mini-research projects. You'd get some content, then the rest of the class would be forming teams, proposing project ideas, implementing, writing up results and having 'mini conferences'. I think faculty liked this since it was a good way to try out research ideas, recruit potential PhD students, and give their current students extra time to work on their research. Nothing wrong with that format, of course, but the actual coverage of content was typically superficial. If you weren't already familiar with the area, you had to figure it out on your own as you went along. Also, this is not a class format that translates to online very well.

theflork 10y ago

It sounds like you did the on-campus program at GT, so you took time off work to complete it. It's hard to argue with the fact that losing the wages to do that is a lot of missed opportunity. However.... I think majority of people that take OMSCS (I am in my 2nd semester) and this new OMSA program do so part time while still maintaining their fulltime jobs and families. Also, why the throwaway?

ftrflyr 10y ago
It strikes me as odd that the parent used a throwaway as well. What are they trying to hide?
- lsaferite 10y ago
  Maybe they don't want their salary being public?
- peller 10y ago
  Is not another possibility that they'd like to keep face / maintain positive relationships with their network from the school?
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  Retribution from administration at Georgia Tech? Or, being labeled a Troll for telling the truth? These schools are businesses too. Maybe too much business? It's becoming easy to find out who's posting on on HN, especially if person divulged personal information. (Hacker news should have a way to hide previous comments. Personally, I don't post much here anymore. I had some moderator spam me, and Google Indexes these conversatations within hours, for all eternity?) Who knows what someone on the sales department, oops Admissions Office, might slip out here? I'm all for "outing" schools that really don't teach. I have found that most people go into a weird denial about the colleges they went to once they graduated. I won't even tell the truth about the undergraduate, and graduate school I attended. I knew that 80%, or 90% of the courses I was required to take were busy work, or poorly executed. It didn't bother me because when I went to school, the price was doable, and it was better than working. Now--it's a different story.

mixmastamyk 10y ago

What you say is often true, however there are a number of places that will shitcan your resume if it doesn't have an advanced degree on it. For example SpaceX, but there are others, often in technical fields. Also, hang in there. The degree may not have helped your current job as much as you'd like, but it may help more at a future company. Sadly we often need to change jobs to get a real salary bump.

pmcollins 10y ago
The great thing about the premature resume shit-canning is that it leaves a ton of talent available for smaller or lesser known employers.

LordKano 10y ago

I completed an Information Security and Assurance MS at a different school and in retrospect, I wish I had done it online instead. I could have done it for 1/3-1/4 of the cost and in the same amount of time but with far less time spent commuting.

donretag 10y ago

I also graduated with a MSCS from GT. While I agree that a Masters degree is not a good signal for a job candidate, having Georgia Tech as your last institution of study instead of your potentially "lower" undergraduate program is. The question remains is if an online degree has the same credibility. Looking back at my time at GT, I cannot see how operating solo, without the constant feedback from your peers and faculty, is as good. There is more than just what is in the study material. The other question is if the entrance requirements are still as stringent.

png_hero 10y ago
Silicon Valley hiring manager here. From my perspective, unfortunately, Georgia Tech has really diluted the value of their masters in cs degree. They have become a sort of immigration visa-mill with very many India undergrad -> Georgia Tech Masters of very questionable skill level. Just my experience.
- agentgt 10y ago
  GT grad here (1999-2003). While I'm not Indian I do have a ton of Indian friends and yes GT does have a large Indian percentage (by observation from when I was there). I can't speak if the CS degree has been diluted but I will say there is an enormous amount of extremely undeserved selective bias against Indian people for technology jobs. When US citizens even see Indian names there are less likely to hire (known as name bias). Again I can't speak for the programs but my Indian friends that went to tech were at the top of their class both in MS and BS. Highly qualified. Extremely humble, ambitious and hungry. Just my experience (and I run a recruiting software company so I see it at scale). I compare this to the apathetic divas that I have met from Stanford and MIT (I live in Mass so I have met many MIT grads). I would hire a GT grad over them any day.
  - uptownfunk 10y ago
    CMU has done this too unfortunately with their online MS degrees.

ftrflyr 10y ago

I am a current OMSCS student. Your situation is anecdotal at best. You are critiquing an in person experience to an online experience.

whorleater 10y ago
> You are critiquing an in person experience to an online experience. GT goes out of its way to say that the online experience and physical experience offer the same degree, is it not fair to compare them?
- filoleg 10y ago
  Same degree != same experience. Just like the same course within the same institution can offer different experience depending on the instructor.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    Isn't that the norm as you continue along the education path? E.g. someone who did a PhD with one advisor vs another
nkozyra 10y ago
Perhaps this is the rare place where a more impersonal interaction helps avoid some of the negatives outlined above. Anecdotally I've felt all of the professors are eminently interested in interacting with MS students online.

lordCarbonFiber 10y ago

I think you're looking at it in both a false comparison (opportunity costs for online are very different than your on campus experience; not to mention the explicit costs) and backwards (as to who is looking to get this degree). The margins on adding a MS CS (or analytics) is less for a CS grad, but at 10k a degree and the flexibility of taking online they are huge for non-CS majors looking to pivot. 10k to bump your salary up 20k (while working and getting experience + raises) plus the knowledge add pays for itself. Im biased on account of being in the program (supplementing my Electrical Engineering degree due to a change in career and life paths), and I know a lot more about graph theory, formal algorithms, and high efficiency computing than I did a year ago. These are things that help improve both your portfolio of rigorous projects (Im currently working to port over all of my high performance computing assignments to Rust) and assortment of tools for the ever annoying CS interview.

rayiner 10y ago

I was in the aerospace department as an undergraduate, and my impression was that everything at GT takes a back seat to the PhD programs.

arcanus 10y ago
This is pretty common at all the top Engineering departments, nowadays. My doctorate was at Texas, and it certainly catered primarily to what brings in the $$: e.g. research.
- nvarsj 10y ago
  Yep, welcome to every research based university in the world. Even B.S. degrees take a back seat. I think OMSCS is good because they seem to at least be trying to improve the non-research track experience.

jsolson 10y ago

I did both my BSCS and MSCS at Georgia Tech. While I have many complaints about the school, the quality of the classes is not one of them, for either the undergrad or grad programs. That said, with a couple of notable exceptions, the graduate classes are there for PhD students as first and second year background material so they have some starting points for their research. This naturally leads to a format where the semester can effectively be described as a long reading list of papers and lectures to spur discussion on the content of the paper. I was planning on pursuing a PhD when I started into my MS, so this format worked quite well for me at the time. In the years subsequent to that, the grounding from those classes has given me starting points for deep dives into problems I encountered at work[0]. It's interesting that you brought up machine learning. Charles Isbell's Intro ML class was a significant exception to the pattern I described above. In addition to high quality, pre-prepared lectures peppered with entertaining anecdotes, the had high quality projects that worked with pratcial tooling. It was also probably the highlight of my graduate career[1]. [0]: In particular, the material covered in my graduate systems classes has been invaluable for not reinventing the wheel for the thousandth time. The material from the couple compilers classes I took on a whim has been a huge boon when talking about software correctness. I work on the hypervisor underneath GCE. Correctness is near and dear to my heart, but performance is right there with it :) [1]: For undergrad that dubious honor has to go to Olin Shivers, not only because of his eclectic teaching style, but also because his class completely altered the way I think about problems in computer science. In particular, my mindset shifted to one of models of computation and decomposition of problems into subproblems for which the simplest model could apply. I have an example I'd like to write up, but it's a bit long for a footnote.

crusso 10y ago
Charles Isbell is still at GT? Holy cow. I think he was the teaching assistant when I was taking VAX assembly back in the late 80's when I was there. Seemed like a nice guy. It's amazing how you don't think of someone for almost 30 years, but you read their name in a comment on HN and memories come flooding in. What do those neurons do while they're waiting to be used again?
- gte525u 10y ago

jps359 10y ago

I'm enjoying the MSCS program online so far and am also doing the ML specialization. I work full-time as a software engineer and just do the coursework part-time. My experience so far is that the assignments and learning are as rigorous as you want them to be. I'm getting exactly what I'm looking for out of it (a somewhat structured environment to learn in), so for me I would say this isn't a losing proposition.

jsokol1 10y ago

I'm sorry you didn't like the on-campus experience at Georgia Tech -- but the online program sounds like a clear win. For less than $10,000 tuition, you could've gotten a top-10 degree and your $20,000-per-year salary increase... all while still working, so you would've also accumulated raises and experience while finishing the degree.

throwawayGT 10y ago
The question would be whether the time spent on this program compares to what one would be able to accomplish on their own, and whether the difference is worth the price tag. From my experiences with GT, I am apprehensive about the quality of content - I assume it's coming from the same departments and professors that I had experience with. From other comments here it seems that the approach this program took was quite different from the one employed on campus, so that apprehension may be unfounded - that is, the online offerings may be of higher quality than what students on campus receive. Still, I felt like I needed to post something to warn people that the branding of GT does not in-and-of-itself mean that the content will be of high quality. Students considering the program should try and find some way to evaluate this - are there sample classes or lectures posted online? Perhaps ask someone you trust in the industry to take a look and give you their feedback. Still, I think students who are self-motivated should consider what they would be able to accomplish if they took some time to organize a study program for themselves. There are many free high-quality resources out there that could be used for effective self-directed study. Students who are less confident about doing it on their own should be asking themselves what sort of support they expect to be getting from the program. Certainly there are many advantages in having things curated for you, as well as having access to discussion boards with other students going through the same material. Aside from that, many students (unfortunately, I think), need the external schedule and commitment - and for them, merely having an exam deadline, or the $10K investment looming in the background may be the thing needed to get through the material. Those students, too, should be realistic about the investment they are making and what they hope to get out of it.
zild3d 10y ago
I agree, and the $10k tuition would be likely covered by your employer. Some of the more expensive online MS programs still have significant out of pocket expenses if they are $40k or so

g051051 10y ago

I just graduated from the OMSCS (online master of science in computer science) program, and I found it a wholly worthwhile experience. It was challenging, informative, and for the most part well-run. Software Analysis and Test in particular was a real eye-opener. And while Computability, Complexity, and Algorithms was a hideous death march of terror, the material they covered was some of the most interesting I've ever experienced. Yes, you can study the same material on your own, but you won't earn a degree from it. Now that I've got the degree, I'm in much better shape to pursue further learning on my own. Note, however, that I didn't do this to improve my resume, go fishing for a new job, or try to get a raise. With tuition reimbursement from my company I only spent $3500 over 2 1/2 years to earn a full-fledged master's degree. Based on the above, I can't agree that it's a losing proposition.

brianbreslin 10y ago
How much time did you spend on coursework per week? Were you working full time while you did this program?
- g051051 10y ago
  Yes, I worked full-time. I'm fortunate in that I WFH, so I could allocate the time I'd have had to commute to school, figure 90 minutes a day. I'm married but have no children, so I didn't have that requiring my attention. Then I'd augment with whatever additional time was needed (at the expense of World of Warcraft). I'd figure for a "light" class that had a fair amount of coding or was in a subject area that I had considerable experience would be 10-15 hours a week. A semester with 2 classes of moderate difficulty would be 20-30 hours a week, depending on homework pacing, amount of videos and readings to study, etc. The hardest class I took was my last class in December called Computability, Complexity, and Algorithms (CCA) and at the end I was doing 35+ hours a week trying to get ahead. It was hugely difficult due to my very weak math background, but I somehow got the hang of it and passed with a decent "B" and graduated.
72mena 10y ago
"Now that I've got the degree, I'm in much better shape to pursue further learning on my own." Could you explain a bit more what do you mean with this statement? Is it that you feel better prepared to study advanced topics (like advanced ML/Data Science) or was the degree a requirement for something else you wanted to pursue? I'm curious about what other "doors" having this degree opens, other than the bump in salary mentioned by others. Congrats for completing the program btw.

thearn4 10y ago

For what it's worth, GA Tech is an amazing school, but I do think they are far more known for their traditional graduate engineering programs (aero, mechanical, electrical, etc.) than CS.

duck 10y ago
These are sadly not linked to the sources, but they have ranked high for a number of years in CS - http://www.cc.gatech.edu/facts-rankings http://www.cc.gatech.edu/facts-rankings.

intended 10y ago

Perhaps The degree matters to people who are transitioning in from a 0 experience background?

asdfGUYasdfn 10y ago

Advanced degrees are just money grabs, and people hid from the recession in college classrooms around this country. The only problem with that, is that college institutions are businesses, so it only raised the debt on each individual that did so, that will take another 20 years to pay down at the prices being charged for an education. My 2c is that most people won't even see the paycheck return on their education over the course of their career which makes it a shame. Do I feel higher education is a waste? No ... do I feel its NOT for everyone? absolutely. Maybe this was the engagement of the student vs. the quality of education or vis versa, I can't say. However, college is what you make of it and you need to go into with open eyes. Especially with such things as this.

nvarsj 10y ago

Really? Pretty much all feedback for OMSCS has been very positive. It sounds like you're bitter about something, or had a particularly bad experience. Can you provide more details about classes you thought were poor and what was poor about them?

throwawayGT 10y ago
I am bitter about having spent time, money and emotional energy on something that I felt I got no value out of, and I want to warn people thinking about doing the same.
- nvarsj 10y ago
  Fair enough. I think your complaints though can apply to most degrees attained at big research universities. Certainly my own at a top undergrad C.S. had its share of terrible teachers and classes - it's a problem across the board, not just at gatech. And by all accounts, as OMSCS is focused on the classes and not research, much of this has improved (with some outliers like the CS6505 algo class, and some others). My own experience was doing about half of an M.S. about a decade ago before dropping out to go right into work, due to money constraints. I don't regret taking those classes at all though - I learned a lot because I put a lot into it, and it's knowledge I've used throughout my career. I find it hard to believe doing an M.S. at gatech would have no value at all - I guess it depends what you plan on doing and how you will use it.

Kaedon 10y ago

I'm enrolled in the OMSCS program currently (nearly graduated) while working full time. I started the program because I was already taking the online courses with Coursera, edX, etc, and it felt like a natural fit to get a degree while I continued to do so. I didn't have a Computer Science undergrad degree, so perhaps I have a different outlook on this than you did. I'm currently working as a software engineer, so I'm also not forgoing earning a living by taking the time off from school. In other words, while I can understand why you feel disappointed by your educational experience, there are other lenses through which this program makes sense. I feel good about having gone through it so far and I'm looking forward to finishing.

markmcdonald 10y ago

> From my point of view, this program is a losing proposition for any potential student. Although I agree with your sentiment (formal education has a lot of flaws), a full-fledged degree potentially solves other problems than just improving your resume to get a better/higher paying job for engineers. Family pressure, lack of confidence that comes with not having a formal CS undergraduate degree, or motivation and structure that comes from paying for a formal program could all contribute to someone choosing this path. A $10k, online masters program from GT seems like a good option for some people.

ozgung 10y ago

According to http://www.mastersindatascience.org/schools/23-great-schools-with-masters-programs-in-data-science/ http://www.mastersindatascience.org/schools/23-great-schools... it's one of the best data science programs out there. Is there any other one that you can recommend?

throwawayGT 10y ago
I haven't gone through other programs, so I can't say from personal experience. There are no programs that have stood out to me during hiring to predict the quality of the candidate. If you're a student looking at programs, I would prioritize the amount and quality of individual attention you stand to receive. A self-directed student can do well anywhere (including on their own). If you're not so stubborn/resilient, having a good community and mentorship to help you overcome difficult times is key.

nether 10y ago

> The classes were of very poor quality - it was clear that they were a low priority for most faculty. I took a master's in aerospace engineering at a top tier school and I wonder if this is the norm for grad engineering courses, and for many lower-level undergrad courses as well (think massive freshman calculus lectures). To calibrate what you consider "poor quality," how did you find the quality of your undergrad engineering courses?