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You have to see it from th job hunter's perspective. It is very common to send out 20 resume's and maybe get a single response or two. It is very time consuming

You have to see it from th job hunter's perspective. It is very common to send out 20 resume's and maybe get a single response or two. It is very time consuming to write a custom multi-paragraph cover letter with every application. Eventually all job hunters learn that you get the same response rate when you write one sentence cover letters as you do when you put a lot of effort into them. Why spend so much effort when you don't have to?

loteck 10y ago
Eventually all job hunters learn that you get the same response rate when you write one sentence cover letters as you do when you put a lot of effort into them. Weird way to look at it. I would think a company that would accept a one sentence cover letter would also accept a longer cover letter, but that the inverse wouldn't be true. As such, wouldn't a classic job seeker always sell to the longer-letter requirement, since they are otherwise automatically disqualifying themselves from an unknown percentage of employers?
- cle 10y ago
  If the proportion of companies that don't accept one-sentence cover letters is relatively small, then the cost of writing those cover letters (which can be significant) probably isn't worth it.
- q3r3qr3q 10y ago
  One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that I see recruiters getting resumes from places like LinkedIn and cold-calling those people, based on experience and keywords in their resumes. And if those people don't need to bother with cover letters, maybe no one really cares. People might also think that since companies are still crying about the shortage of programmers it's still a "renter's market" and that enough employers are desperate enough to not squabble over missing cover letters. But I still have no great theory about why people wouldn't have at least a single paragraph about themselves that they paste into emails to make them seem slightly more personal.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  Maybe its the perspective that a insisting on long formal and inefficient processes wouldn't make for a good employer.
JayNeely 10y ago
"you get the same response rate when you write one-sentence cover letters as you do when you put a lot of effort into them" is faulty thinking. There are many reasons an employer might not be interested in an applicant, and many reasons why they might be. The frustrating part of the hiring process is that not getting a response doesn't provide you with visibility into any of them. But assuming the cover letter doesn't matter is as much of a mistake as assuming industry experience, or years of experience, or having gone to a particular school doesn't matter. a) different companies prioritize different things, even if the requirements list is the same. b) small things can get your application silently rejected (or more often, delegated to a 'maybe we'll come back to them' virtual pile), because employers get dozens of applications (hundreds over multiple positions) and the cost of interviewing is high (and worth noting, much higher than your cost of writing a cover letter).
TheMog 10y ago
Well, it works both ways. You might send out 20 resumes. As a hiring manager - especially when using a "no filter" approach like posting on here (keep in mind that IME people posting jobs on Hacker News are more likely doing "guerilla hiring" and circumvent their HR departments) - I easily get 100+ resumes, and I don't have days to spend trawling through them. I think it was rands of randsinrepose who mentioned before that the average time an HR person or a manager gets to spend on figuring out if a deeper dive is worth it is about 30s. So I have to filter them by something. If you as an applicant - who would like at least an interview with me -can't even put in the effort to write in a few sentences that tell me why I should look at your resume, I somehow have to assume that you'll put in similar effort after I hire you. That's not a good first impression and IMHO it counts when you're dealing with a hiring manager as opposed to an HR department. Keep in mind I'm not asking you to write a cover novel. Put yourself in my shoes and tell me which of the resumes you'd look at if you have only limited time: 1. The one that says "My resume attached", or fewer words to that effect 2. The one that says "Hey, I'm applying for your job opening because I love writing web apps in Ruby on Rails with a ClojureScript front end".
- Kalium 10y ago
  It's possible that how much effort a candidate puts into demonstrating token emotional attachment to a job posting is not a great predictor of job performance.
  - Grae 10y ago
    Correct. It's also possible that, as a candidate, demonstrating token emotional attachment to a job posting positively correlates with advancing through the candidate funnel. Your strategy is yours to choose.
    - Kalium 10y ago
      If that is how a given company filters for candidates, then I have desire to advance through their funnel. This seems like a reasonable deal to me.
greglindahl 10y ago
As a job-hunter, I always write a well-researched cover letter, and I don't care if some employers ignore them. As a hiring manager, I love a good cover letter. So no, I don't see it the way you describe.
- throwaway5752 10y ago
  Seriously, also as a hiring manager I can't imagine not writing a personalized cover letter that's customized to the company I'm applying to. It's literally the first impression that a company has of you as a candidate, and I want them to think 1) I want to be hired 2) that I am thoughtful and prepared 3) that I am a great candidate for the role and company (which, if you cannot explain persuasively in the cover letter, is a bad sign).
danesparza 10y ago
"It is very common to send out 20 resume's and maybe get a single response or two. It is very time consuming to write a custom multi-paragraph cover letter with every application." If you're a programmer and you're approaching problems this way, I most likely don't want to hire you. Strike a balance between automation and giving a personal touch where it's necessary.
- exolymph 10y ago
  I have a form cover letter with a few customizable sections, and it works great.
  - wott 10y ago
    I have a cover letter that I customise with great care for each application and it seems that its only use is to demonstrate that not a single recruiter ever reads it. Not even a little bit. Note that most of them do not even read the résumé either, since they often obviously go through it for the first time while they call you on the phone.
- formerly_ta 10y ago
  And if you're shooting your resume off to such different positions that you can't cover them with the same (or one of a few) intro paragraphs, you're probably not that great a candidate for this specific role anyway.
- kevinml 10y ago
  And if you really wanted the job you'd take a few minutes to personalize it. I'm assuming most hiring managers want that part of a cover letter to see a little about you as a person and why you're interested. I'd rather hear from someone specifically interested in this job vs someone looking for just any job.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  Automated personal touch, mmh.. i can do procedural Rts units, i can do that. Dear Sir and Madam, i always greatly admired the spaghettis <autosearched product> growing in your <companysname> yard. The idea of adding <featurename> to <autosearched product> was asthma taking and diamond. Now finding myself, in need and desire to accomplish, a similar feet, ladder jump several feet deep up, i hereby apply for your post <jobname mined> which i will embrace with great pressure on passion fruit and tail end. RegEx full Regards
city41 10y ago
Isn't that correlation, not causation? It's entirely possible you could meticulously write 20 detailed cover letters, and get no response because you don't fit the role or the hiring manager is swamped or any number of reasons. Whenever I apply for a job, I always take the time to write a good cover letter. Why wouldn't you maximize your chances?
triplesec 10y ago
You could write a script that generates a couple of customised sentences for you, given its parsing of the job listings you are responding to. Flagged at the end as such, it would also show the recruiter some skills, and an advanced sense of humour.
codingdave 10y ago
That doesn't match my experience. In my experience, I get above a 50% response rate when I send out resumes with cover letters that I put effort into.
dwc 10y ago
Yeah, that sounds a lot like my early days. Cold applying is horrible. Since then I let friends know that I'm looking, check out interesting places to see if anyone I know works there, etc. My last job hunt involved applying to a single place, with an internal recommendation. Same for the previous job. Etc. The last time I applied cold was in the 90s. I realize that getting to this point takes time, and usually involves working in the same town for a good while. But when you can do it it's a nice way to get your resume on someone's desk for real consideration rather than, say, getting culled by a recruiter because you don't have the exact incantation they were told to look for.
imron 10y ago
> Eventually all job hunters learn that you get the same response rate when you write one sentence cover letters as you do when you put a lot of effort into them I've never found that. In fact I've found just the opposite. I've always tailored cover letters and CVs to highlight the points mentioned in the job description and why I can solve them, and I've always had a high rate of applications to interviews and then jobs. It makes the job of the person sorting through CVs that much easier. I've been on both sides of the table, and if you have 100+ CVs to go through, the short cover letter+CV that covers most of the issues raised in the job description will almost always make it to the short list for interviews.
ryandrake 10y ago
I agree 100% with you except that the ratio is probably more like 100:1 rather than 20:1. Between all the arbitrary filters, employer inaction/black-holing, and networking-nepotism, your odds of cold-applying with a resume are really, REALLY small. When you're at that point it's a numbers game. Spray and pray as many resumes as you can.
lmilcin 10y ago
Those who send tens or hundreds applications without trying to do any work or without any ability to perform the job are disproportionately represented in the total volume of applications you get. The best way to handle this is to screen them out by requiring just a little work. Writing a few original words pertaining to the offer is one way.

loteck 10y ago

Eventually all job hunters learn that you get the same response rate when you write one sentence cover letters as you do when you put a lot of effort into them. Weird way to look at it. I would think a company that would accept a one sentence cover letter would also accept a longer cover letter, but that the inverse wouldn't be true. As such, wouldn't a classic job seeker always sell to the longer-letter requirement, since they are otherwise automatically disqualifying themselves from an unknown percentage of employers?

cle 10y ago
If the proportion of companies that don't accept one-sentence cover letters is relatively small, then the cost of writing those cover letters (which can be significant) probably isn't worth it.
q3r3qr3q 10y ago
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that I see recruiters getting resumes from places like LinkedIn and cold-calling those people, based on experience and keywords in their resumes. And if those people don't need to bother with cover letters, maybe no one really cares. People might also think that since companies are still crying about the shortage of programmers it's still a "renter's market" and that enough employers are desperate enough to not squabble over missing cover letters. But I still have no great theory about why people wouldn't have at least a single paragraph about themselves that they paste into emails to make them seem slightly more personal.
Pica_soO 10y ago
Maybe its the perspective that a insisting on long formal and inefficient processes wouldn't make for a good employer.

JayNeely 10y ago

"you get the same response rate when you write one-sentence cover letters as you do when you put a lot of effort into them" is faulty thinking. There are many reasons an employer might not be interested in an applicant, and many reasons why they might be. The frustrating part of the hiring process is that not getting a response doesn't provide you with visibility into any of them. But assuming the cover letter doesn't matter is as much of a mistake as assuming industry experience, or years of experience, or having gone to a particular school doesn't matter. a) different companies prioritize different things, even if the requirements list is the same. b) small things can get your application silently rejected (or more often, delegated to a 'maybe we'll come back to them' virtual pile), because employers get dozens of applications (hundreds over multiple positions) and the cost of interviewing is high (and worth noting, much higher than your cost of writing a cover letter).

TheMog 10y ago

Well, it works both ways. You might send out 20 resumes. As a hiring manager - especially when using a "no filter" approach like posting on here (keep in mind that IME people posting jobs on Hacker News are more likely doing "guerilla hiring" and circumvent their HR departments) - I easily get 100+ resumes, and I don't have days to spend trawling through them. I think it was rands of randsinrepose who mentioned before that the average time an HR person or a manager gets to spend on figuring out if a deeper dive is worth it is about 30s. So I have to filter them by something. If you as an applicant - who would like at least an interview with me -can't even put in the effort to write in a few sentences that tell me why I should look at your resume, I somehow have to assume that you'll put in similar effort after I hire you. That's not a good first impression and IMHO it counts when you're dealing with a hiring manager as opposed to an HR department. Keep in mind I'm not asking you to write a cover novel. Put yourself in my shoes and tell me which of the resumes you'd look at if you have only limited time: 1. The one that says "My resume attached", or fewer words to that effect 2. The one that says "Hey, I'm applying for your job opening because I love writing web apps in Ruby on Rails with a ClojureScript front end".

Kalium 10y ago
It's possible that how much effort a candidate puts into demonstrating token emotional attachment to a job posting is not a great predictor of job performance.
- Grae 10y ago
  Correct. It's also possible that, as a candidate, demonstrating token emotional attachment to a job posting positively correlates with advancing through the candidate funnel. Your strategy is yours to choose.
  - Kalium 10y ago
    If that is how a given company filters for candidates, then I have desire to advance through their funnel. This seems like a reasonable deal to me.

greglindahl 10y ago

As a job-hunter, I always write a well-researched cover letter, and I don't care if some employers ignore them. As a hiring manager, I love a good cover letter. So no, I don't see it the way you describe.

throwaway5752 10y ago
Seriously, also as a hiring manager I can't imagine not writing a personalized cover letter that's customized to the company I'm applying to. It's literally the first impression that a company has of you as a candidate, and I want them to think 1) I want to be hired 2) that I am thoughtful and prepared 3) that I am a great candidate for the role and company (which, if you cannot explain persuasively in the cover letter, is a bad sign).

danesparza 10y ago

"It is very common to send out 20 resume's and maybe get a single response or two. It is very time consuming to write a custom multi-paragraph cover letter with every application." If you're a programmer and you're approaching problems this way, I most likely don't want to hire you. Strike a balance between automation and giving a personal touch where it's necessary.

exolymph 10y ago
I have a form cover letter with a few customizable sections, and it works great.
- wott 10y ago
  I have a cover letter that I customise with great care for each application and it seems that its only use is to demonstrate that not a single recruiter ever reads it. Not even a little bit. Note that most of them do not even read the résumé either, since they often obviously go through it for the first time while they call you on the phone.
formerly_ta 10y ago
And if you're shooting your resume off to such different positions that you can't cover them with the same (or one of a few) intro paragraphs, you're probably not that great a candidate for this specific role anyway.
kevinml 10y ago
And if you really wanted the job you'd take a few minutes to personalize it. I'm assuming most hiring managers want that part of a cover letter to see a little about you as a person and why you're interested. I'd rather hear from someone specifically interested in this job vs someone looking for just any job.
Pica_soO 10y ago
Automated personal touch, mmh.. i can do procedural Rts units, i can do that. Dear Sir and Madam, i always greatly admired the spaghettis <autosearched product> growing in your <companysname> yard. The idea of adding <featurename> to <autosearched product> was asthma taking and diamond. Now finding myself, in need and desire to accomplish, a similar feet, ladder jump several feet deep up, i hereby apply for your post <jobname mined> which i will embrace with great pressure on passion fruit and tail end. RegEx full Regards

city41 10y ago

Isn't that correlation, not causation? It's entirely possible you could meticulously write 20 detailed cover letters, and get no response because you don't fit the role or the hiring manager is swamped or any number of reasons. Whenever I apply for a job, I always take the time to write a good cover letter. Why wouldn't you maximize your chances?

triplesec 10y ago

You could write a script that generates a couple of customised sentences for you, given its parsing of the job listings you are responding to. Flagged at the end as such, it would also show the recruiter some skills, and an advanced sense of humour.

codingdave 10y ago

That doesn't match my experience. In my experience, I get above a 50% response rate when I send out resumes with cover letters that I put effort into.

dwc 10y ago

Yeah, that sounds a lot like my early days. Cold applying is horrible. Since then I let friends know that I'm looking, check out interesting places to see if anyone I know works there, etc. My last job hunt involved applying to a single place, with an internal recommendation. Same for the previous job. Etc. The last time I applied cold was in the 90s. I realize that getting to this point takes time, and usually involves working in the same town for a good while. But when you can do it it's a nice way to get your resume on someone's desk for real consideration rather than, say, getting culled by a recruiter because you don't have the exact incantation they were told to look for.

imron 10y ago

> Eventually all job hunters learn that you get the same response rate when you write one sentence cover letters as you do when you put a lot of effort into them I've never found that. In fact I've found just the opposite. I've always tailored cover letters and CVs to highlight the points mentioned in the job description and why I can solve them, and I've always had a high rate of applications to interviews and then jobs. It makes the job of the person sorting through CVs that much easier. I've been on both sides of the table, and if you have 100+ CVs to go through, the short cover letter+CV that covers most of the issues raised in the job description will almost always make it to the short list for interviews.

ryandrake 10y ago

I agree 100% with you except that the ratio is probably more like 100:1 rather than 20:1. Between all the arbitrary filters, employer inaction/black-holing, and networking-nepotism, your odds of cold-applying with a resume are really, REALLY small. When you're at that point it's a numbers game. Spray and pray as many resumes as you can.

lmilcin 10y ago

Those who send tens or hundreds applications without trying to do any work or without any ability to perform the job are disproportionately represented in the total volume of applications you get. The best way to handle this is to screen them out by requiring just a little work. Writing a few original words pertaining to the offer is one way.