11 ms·

David Cameron announces resignation

403 points by matheusalmeida 10y ago

lossolo 10y ago
I just watched his talk. He lost. He fought that he can avoid crack in his party and anti-eu members will be pleased if he make this move - referendum. Then he thought he will get what he wants from EU and then all citizens will vote remain. He was wrong on all this points. He is the biggest looser in this situation and he really knows it.
- berkut 10y ago
  And he agreed to this to get UKIP votes in last year's election. Admittedly the pressure was building from UKIP (and eurosceptic tories), but this is very unlikely to be in Britain's interests IMO.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Labour voters voted predominantly to to leave in this referendum more so than the conservatives.
    - berkut 10y ago
      That explains the result of the referendum, not the agreeing to it in the first place.
      - m_mueller 10y ago
        As a Swiss this argument kind of baffles me. Governing according to the people's will should be the norm in a democracy, not some kind of strategic play.
        SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
        Exactly. If the majority want out then we should come out - and I say that as a Remain voter. Really interested to see what the future has in store. Thankfully us tech people should weather it better than most.
        raverbashing 10y ago
        Yes. Because you're thinking like a Swiss Especially thinking that all decisions will be calm, collected and will result from evaluation of all sides Most people will base a vote on false facts, spite and stuff like "following their heart"
        rjsw 10y ago
        I suspect that a country has to have referendums fairly often for them to work as intended. One problem in the UK was that people were answering different questions to the one asked.
        DanBC 10y ago
        ...and basing their answers on blatant lies. (EG We can spend some of the £350m per week on NHS.)
        arethuza 10y ago
        I can see some nasty cutbacks to things like the NHS coming - ideologically motivated but justified by our self inflicted forthcoming recession.
        sievebrain 10y ago
        How is that a "blatant lie"? Does that money go to the EU? Yes. Would that money be freed up for other uses? Yes. Would some of it end up being reallocated to the NHS? Very likely, given the politics of the UK. If you'd said ALL of it WILL go on the NHS then you'd be right, but you aren't arguing with that statement.
    - aidos 10y ago
      What's the source for that? Not challenging you but I'd be interested to see a party breakdown.
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        The Labour party heartlands in England and Wales voted pretty much unanimously in favor to leave. Jeremy Corbyn is already taking flak for this outcome: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inquest-begins-after-heartland-areas-vote-strongly-for-Brexit-0687c608-5f48-4c80-bea9-0cb653266f13-ds http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inq... https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6126f https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-for-brexit-by-labour-mps-in-eu-referendum_uk_576c6cfee4b0232d331da41b http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-f...
        newjersey 10y ago
        This is ridiculous. London and Scotland overwhelmingly voted to stay. I have no love for labour after the alternate vote referendum but anyone who blames this on labour is clearly trying to rewrite history for scumbag David Cameron.
        matthewmacleod 10y ago
        I'm no defender of Cameron, but the Labour party in the UK have absolutely failed – both recently and during their last period in government – to engage with long-term problems of identity, especially in the north of England. A huge number of traditionally Labour-voting areas have opted to leave the EU, and the party have to bear some responsibility for that.
        mlnox 10y ago
        I'm not sure you can characterise Scotland as Labour anymore. Largest party in the Scottish parliament are SNP, second largest Conservative, Labour are a measly third place. As much as London is Labour supporting it's only a very small part of their supporter base, their traditional heartlands are Wales and the North of the UK, both of which overwhelmingly voted to leave.
- sz4kerto 10y ago
  > He is the biggest looser in this situation Except he isn't, really -- he loses his political position, but he and his family won't be existentially affected by what's going to happen, as opposed to probably tens of millions of people all around Europe.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonmum 10y ago
    The EU's common agricultural policy was actively favoring and subsidizing large EU based multinationals and blocking entry into the market by small scale farmers and producers in developing countries. Seems to me like a huge new market called "the UK" just opened up for genuine and fair trade. So overall, this is probably good for hundreds of millions of people around the world.
    - viraptor 10y ago
      The policies don't have to change. It's not like the UK severs all the connections with everyone. Multinationals will stay and ensure the new policies and trade treaties allow them to continue.
    - ivan_gammel 10y ago
      Isn't UK going to protect its own businesses and jobs? Not everyone is pro-trade in Leave camp, afaik.
      - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        Yes, the UK still grows half it's own food, those businesses will be lobbying hard.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
      At last UK farmers can sell their top quality fruit and vegetables to the rest of the world.
- actuator 10y ago
  With emerging talk of Irish unification and Scottish independence after the referendum, some legacy he is going to leave behind.
  - tehwalrus 10y ago
    Irish unification would be a silver lining to this awfulness.
    - anonymousDan 10y ago
      As someone from Ireland I'm really not sure I could be bothered dealing with all the shit that could entail. Would prefer if they just went independent and joined the EU as a separate country.
      - matthewmacleod 10y ago
        Unfortunately Northern Ireland doesn't have the economy or infrastructure to realistically function as an independent state at this point. You never know about the future, but it's likely not on the table any time soon.
        lostlogin 10y ago
        Which is ironic given how long foreign rule has had to sort the place out.
        hardlianotion 10y ago
        Not really. Northern Ireland is quite small.
        Grishnakh 10y ago
        Why does it need to be large to function independently? There are a bunch of far smaller nations in the EU/Europe: Luxembourg, Andorra, San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc. If Northern Ireland became independent, it could just join the EU (regular Ireland is also an EU member), so they wouldn't have to maintain their own currency at least, and would benefit from the free trade. If Luxembourg can function as it is, I don't see why Northern Ireland can't do the same.
jkelsey 10y ago
Wow. A new Prime Minister and a new President within about a month of each other. At this point though, it doesn't seem like the former will matter much anymore. I hope this shit hole of a year turns around for the second half.
- PietdeVries 10y ago
  And so it begins... If a Brexit-fanatic like Boris somehow gets hold of the UK, and Trump does the same in the US, we'll be looking back at "those good old days prior to June 2016" in no time... The world-economy will get more introvert, like the "me first" kids at school who don't care about the rest. And that will be the fuel of the upcoming unrest in the rest of the world...
  - ajuc 10y ago
    There's already unrest in the world. It all feels like 1930s since a few years :/
    - p51ngh 10y ago
      You must be a really old chap.
      - ajuc 10y ago
        Like I imagine it felt in 1930s.
  - simonbarker87 10y ago
    I really don't think Boris cared one way of the other (Remain/Leave), he just saw a way to position himself for PM and took it.
    - Ntrails 10y ago
      Given that he's been writing against the EU for 15 years or more, that's pretty unlikely.
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
Every cloud has a silver lining.
- lunchTime42 10y ago
  That silver lining is the sun waiting to come back to give you skin-cancer.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
    Classy.
- IshKebab 10y ago
  Wait to see who replaces him before you say that.
venomsnake 10y ago
As if the pound needed more beating today. Oh well he was not at the level of Disraeli, Churchill or Thatcher. He made that mess and didn't even had the balls to pull the trigger of brexit himself. All hail Boris Johnson. Crazy hairdos on top of influential Anglo Saxon countries is bull market it seems. We will live in interesting times.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > Crazy hairdos on top of influential Anglo Saxon countries is bull market it seems. Let's hope NL will manage to avoid that. In a way the 'brexit' may be the strongest shot in the arm for the rest of European unity if the consequences are quick and harsh enough. That would be a real pity for the people in the UK, but it may still have some positive effect. And there is always a way back. For now, this is a pretty black day in history.
  - venomsnake 10y ago
    I am optimistic ... The EU has leverage. And the revanche towards UK may unite the continent. Also the Anglo-Saxon worldview ... and their laizes faire approach is incompatible with the continental worldview. I honestly believe that UK impeded European unity with their "special" status inside. If the EU plays its cards correctly we may remove the U from UK, take in the parts, and then include England and Whales ... on our terms. Realpolitik is fun thing to play.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      > Realpolitik is fun thing to play. I don't agree with that. You're assuming we know the outcome and with shifts like these the real results won't be in for generations to come.
    - chappi42 10y ago
      > I am optimistic ... The EU has leverage. And the revanche towards UK may unite the continent. Many don't like the 'heavy hands' of Russia, Turkey, China and then here we have a disappointing, difficult voting result and we (you) talk about revanche? The correct answer should imho be that EU introspects about what needs to be changed that such an important country as the UK would happily vote to participate.
gonzo41 10y ago
So today Britain cripples it own economy for nothing. But hey, no more Cameron!. I call it evens.
- tehbeard 10y ago
  Probably end up with Boris. Suddenly Trump doesn't seem so bad.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    The Borris / Farage coalition feels like some ridiculous parody joke from "Day Today" / "On the Hour".
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Despite the fact I don't agree with his position on this I'd rather have Gove than Boris.
- x5n1 10y ago
  The economy is not everything. I know most people including leaders these days think all political decisions should be made keeping the economy in mind, and that's the most important thing. But I don't think this to be the case. Sovereignty and the right for people to make the rules that govern them are just as important if not more important than the economy.
  - dba7dba 10y ago
    Giving people freedom of self determination was in. At least for oppressed people. And it seems like UK people exercised that freedom.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Not having an income isn't very freeing.
- simonswords82 10y ago
  There has been so much scaremongering in the UK press that the markets are now reacting accordingly. Ultimately trade deals are important not just to the UK but to the countries it trades with. People in power will make deals happen because they have to. There's going to be some short term pain - but ultimately everything will balance out.
tkyjonathan 10y ago
Its his fault we're here. His policies made inequality in the UK so high that people got angry and started blaming the EU and mainly migrants.
- Ntrails 10y ago
  Nothing to do with that. He threw out the referendum promise in order to secure power, and then failed to get Europe to agree to the headline changes which would easily have secured the vote in his "renegotiation". "Austerity" is not to blame for this. You can argue EU recalcitrance played a part, as did labour party weakness, but it's on him. His legacy will be this vote, this loss, and his failure to see through the consequences of his actions.
  - CommanderData 10y ago
    > "Austerity" is not to blame for this. Austerity would be to blame for this - it contributed to people being more anti-immigrant, though indirectly. Him calling the referendum, the outcome - are related to his parties policies without isolation.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      We haven't had austerity in the UK, we have had nothing like what Spain or Greece have had to deal with.
      - CommanderData 10y ago
        Comparing UK with Spain or Greece? The UK was the fifth largest economy in the world. I don't your comparison to Greece is a fair, to say the least. We've had an onslaught of austerity measures and public cuts too many to list in a sitting.
        tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        Yet unemployment is only 5.6%.
geff82 10y ago
He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignore the voice of the voters, Boaty McBoatface-style?
- CommanderData 10y ago
  This government is for austerity and cutting public services and expenditure. He is no less a reflection of his party. Next PM's in line: Theresa May: Pro snoopers (spying) charter. I don't like the term police state but her actions are worryingly in line. Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His selling point being the golden coloured hairy creature that has permanently occupied his scalp. Yes. We have a great line up of next potential PM's for Britain.
  - fredley 10y ago
    Theresa May is one of the scariest contenders as far as I've seen. Very pro-surveillance and anti-open internet. She would be a (nother) disaster for UK tech. If there's anybody left who hasn't moved to Dublin/Berlin by October.
    - geff82 10y ago
      The problem we currently have in politics it demography. People get older and older, the baby boomers forgot to "produce" children. Elder people tend to be deeply conservative and anti-technology. And as they are the majority now, they vote for stuff that they think is right ("let's 100% control that freaking thing called internet") and totally strangle the younger generation with their bad taste and shortsightedness.
      - e12e 10y ago
        I find it at a little odd to read this characterisation on HN of all places. I mean, it's pretty much run by "old" technologists, right?
xedarius 10y ago
Throughout the campaign he has been claiming the UK are not quitters, first thing he does, is quit!
pyb 10y ago
What has he ever done, other than reletentlessy dividing his country, every way he could, for all of his 6 years ?
- edent 10y ago
  Equal Marriage was a good move which was broadly supported. Other than that, not much.
  - verbify 10y ago
    I think 'religion is the opium of the people' cuts both ways. Politicians will push through popular socio-economic policies (e.g. gay marriage) in order to be able to get enough support to also push through their unpopular economic policies.
  - keithpeter 10y ago
    Yes, the resignation speech mentioned the equal marriage legislation and foreign aid specifically. I suspect that is a semaphore for the successor (who will be further to the right) to leave those firmly alone.
fahrradflucht 10y ago
In my opinion, the most interesting thing he said in that speech is that he doesn't plan to trigger article 50 immediately. That will be controversial in both, the EU and Britain I think.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  If the UK starts muddling through, the EU should firmly act and suspend UK membership: we can not allow uncertainty, and a future ex-member abusing the good will of the rest of the EU. Cameron promised to trigger article 50 immediately: if he does not, we should force him to.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > Cameron promised to trigger article 50 immediately Did he? edit: it seems to as the following quote is frequent (and from as early as February) though I can't find an original citation: > Mr Cameron previously said he would trigger Article 50 as soon as possible after a Leave vote though it follows up with this interesting > but Boris Johnson and Michael Gove who led the campaign to get Britain out of the EU have said he should not rush into it. And the following "wtf-worthy" declaration: > They also said they wanted to make immediate changes before the UK actually leaves the EU, such as curbing the power of EU judges and limiting the free movement of workers, potentially in breach of the UK's treaty obligations.
  - youngtaff 10y ago
    There is no process for the EU to suspend the UK or for the EU to trigger article 50
    - gonvaled 10y ago
      You are not suggesting that the UK leaving the EU will be done on UK terms only, do you? Like "we get that funding chunk and then we leave" or "we attend that EU parliament session and then we leave" or "we don't say how or when, we'll just leave, whenever it suits us, and please don't disturb because I am too busy doing important things which you can not hope to comprehend". How long do you think the EU will wait for the princess to make up her mind? I do not know the exact mechanisms by which the EU can force the UK out, but one thing I know: we can not allow us the luxury of keeping the enemy inside the gates. I for one hope this is done with asap. Out is out.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
DanielBMarkham 10y ago
For those of us who do not live in GB, could somebody ELI5 about how these things work? Does the Prime Minister just hang out until he decides he's had enough? (Yes, I know I could Wiki it. For others browsing the thread, however, 2-5 sentences on how it all works would be useful.)
- lordnacho 10y ago
  It's a referendum, not a general election. He could hang around, but I suppose it wouldn't be long before he got a vote of no confidence. The plan is to sit around until the Tories find a new leader and try to hand over gracefully. Whether there will be a new general election is also not part of the referendum, but it's a thinkable possibility.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    I guess it depends on whether they think they can win or not, my guess is we will get one quite quickly (before people find out exactly what they have done).
- thomasfoster96 10y ago
  Prime Ministers in countries that have them are usually the leader of the largest party in the lower house of their Parliament. David Cameron doesn't have to resign immediately, because he's still the leader of the largest party. He's resigning (or rather has announced he will resign before October) because he had certainly given the impression to his party that if 'Remain' didn't win, he'd resign. He could try and stay on, but the party might get rid of him and vote to make someone else leader (therefore forcing him to resign as Prime Minister).
  - DanielBMarkham 10y ago
    So he resigns, but he was elected as a representative in the lower house. That means he won't be PM anymore, and he goes back to being a member of the lower house? Does the house pick one of its own members for the job, or does the majority party get to pick anybody at all that they want to be PM? Do PMs that leave go back to being house members? Seems like that would be kinda weird.
ajuc 10y ago
I find it very amusing that England stopped Scotland from leaving (among other arguments) by saying "You would have to enter EU again", and then left EU the next year :)
- sleepychu 10y ago
  I can assure you that the Scots don't find that amusing at all P:
  - antod 10y ago
    Well you do get to use all of their own arguments/rationalisations against them next time around.
chappi42 10y ago
Maybe the EU as is should also resign and reappear in a better shape. Europe will stay Europe and I don't think everything will shatter now. On the contrary, isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-negotiated. I'm quite sure that many people are not happy with the current EU arrangement and would vote to leave (if they could and/or if they weren't so much bound by economic benefits as e.g. Gibraltar). An EU reform is needed and I hope this Brexit serves as another signal that it is really about time to speak honestly about 'some issues' and try to find solutions for them.
- Spearchucker 10y ago
  "...isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-negotiated..." You understand how this works, right? As part of the EU the UK has bartering clout. As an independent little island with a huge trade deficit and a weak £ it has nothing. So a trade deal with China, for instance, would end with China trading in the UK, and the UK waiting 15 years before trading in China. There is hyperbole in what I'm saying, which is probably a result of the disappointing outcome of the referendum, but... the UK as a trading partner has nothing to offer anyone.
  - chappi42 10y ago
    Agree, independent little is ..difficult. My main argument though was that the EU must somehow? reform and that this vote was a (partly dissapointing, partly brave) request for it. UK belongs to Europe and a re-negotiated 'Union-solution' can and will be found, I'm quite sure. EU also has nothing to offer if too many countries leave...
  - sievebrain 10y ago
    The idea of "clout" is an incorrect belief that is not supported by the data: http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from-eu-collective-clout http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from...
    - Spearchucker 10y ago
return0 10y ago
This thread is political. Unlike the other thread about the referendum , it has derailed to name-calling.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  The level of discourse is poor. That said, what happens in a global financial center almost certainly will have impacts on Silicon Valley and the startup environment.
reitoei 10y ago
So your argument is basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU
- anothermouse 10y ago
  > So your argument is basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU s/your/their/. It is not my argument, I'm a Tory voting, skilled, financial sector worker, who voted remain. But I'm being an idiot arguing with you. I don't think dismissively posting a clip of southpark has advanced the discussion. This subject never got the detailed and grown up discussion it deserved as one side continually dismissed the other as racist xenophobes (which you are underhandedly implying they are here) and the other harped on about '350 million a week' continuously, even thought that was thoroughly debunked. There were real substantive issues to be discussed and we failed to do it meaningfully. Kind of like this thread.
  - reitoei 10y ago
    No, it hasn't advanced the discussion, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of the argument. I have absolutely no doubt you are a well-educated, skilled worker, but even you know yourself, many of people are who blame immigrants for taking their jobs/disenfranchising them in some way, are gullible Sun-reading, bone-idle fuckwits who couldn't be arsed working/upskilling. Sad but true, and frankly, as an Irish person who lived in London for years, I find the 'blame immigrants' rhetoric absolutely terrifying.
- dang 10y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11969620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11969620 and marked it off-topic.
  - reitoei 10y ago
    Apologies.
vijayr 10y ago
Can someone explain what happens next? Will UK really leave the EU? If yes, how long will it take? Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process?
- kale 10y ago
  Cameron steps down in October. A new Prime Minister will then initiate leaving the EU (per Treaty of Lisbon I think). This will take at least two years, possibly longer. The market volatility isn't because they're out of the EU or will be that soon, rather everyone planning on a 2018-2019 exit.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > The market volatility isn't because they're out of the EU or will be that soon, rather everyone planning on a 2018-2019 exit. Well, not just that. There's also other things, like and the resulting lack of certainty of the near-term future for the government of the UK -- and the leadership of its major parties -- which creates plenty of uncertainty on policy and prospects in a much shorter term than the exit itself, as well as the fact that the exit vote, as I understand, kills the agreement that had been negotiated that provided what was described as a "new settlement" on Britain's special relationship within the EU, which was contingent on a "Remain" result in the referendum: that would have taken effect (and, thus, its being cancelled has effects) sooner than the exit now will take effect.
- bsimpson 10y ago
  The EU asked them to leave this morning. [0] http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plunged-crisis-britain-votes-leave-eu-european-union http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plung...
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Can someone explain what happens next? People can guess, but there's a lot of uncertainty on some points. > Will UK really leave the EU? Most likely, as I understand it, the next British government will formally start the (at least) two year process of exiting the EU. In the short term, they are still in the EU. > Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process? As I understand, under the applicable treaty, the UK has to formally initiate the withdrawal process. The EU has asked them to do so without delay, which is what Cameron had promised before the vote, but Cameron has since said that he plans to leave that to the next PM.
univalent 10y ago
Outsmarted himself and fucked up royally. Time to go.

403 points by matheusalmeida 10y ago

I just watched his talk. He lost. He fought that he can avoid crack in his party and anti-eu members will be pleased if he make this move - referendum. Then he thought he will get what he wants from EU and then all citizens will vote remain. He was wrong on all this points. He is the biggest looser in this situation and he really knows it.

berkut 10y ago
And he agreed to this to get UKIP votes in last year's election. Admittedly the pressure was building from UKIP (and eurosceptic tories), but this is very unlikely to be in Britain's interests IMO.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Labour voters voted predominantly to to leave in this referendum more so than the conservatives.
  - berkut 10y ago
    That explains the result of the referendum, not the agreeing to it in the first place.
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      As a Swiss this argument kind of baffles me. Governing according to the people's will should be the norm in a democracy, not some kind of strategic play.
      - SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
        Exactly. If the majority want out then we should come out - and I say that as a Remain voter. Really interested to see what the future has in store. Thankfully us tech people should weather it better than most.
      - raverbashing 10y ago
        Yes. Because you're thinking like a Swiss Especially thinking that all decisions will be calm, collected and will result from evaluation of all sides Most people will base a vote on false facts, spite and stuff like "following their heart"
        rjsw 10y ago
        I suspect that a country has to have referendums fairly often for them to work as intended. One problem in the UK was that people were answering different questions to the one asked.
        DanBC 10y ago
        ...and basing their answers on blatant lies. (EG We can spend some of the £350m per week on NHS.)
        arethuza 10y ago
        I can see some nasty cutbacks to things like the NHS coming - ideologically motivated but justified by our self inflicted forthcoming recession.
        sievebrain 10y ago
        How is that a "blatant lie"? Does that money go to the EU? Yes. Would that money be freed up for other uses? Yes. Would some of it end up being reallocated to the NHS? Very likely, given the politics of the UK. If you'd said ALL of it WILL go on the NHS then you'd be right, but you aren't arguing with that statement.
  - aidos 10y ago
    What's the source for that? Not challenging you but I'd be interested to see a party breakdown.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      The Labour party heartlands in England and Wales voted pretty much unanimously in favor to leave. Jeremy Corbyn is already taking flak for this outcome: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inquest-begins-after-heartland-areas-vote-strongly-for-Brexit-0687c608-5f48-4c80-bea9-0cb653266f13-ds http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24northnational/Labour-inq... https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6126f https://next.ft.com/content/a035f3d2-39c4-11e6-a780-b48ed7b6... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-for-brexit-by-labour-mps-in-eu-referendum_uk_576c6cfee4b0232d331da41b http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-blamed-f...
      - newjersey 10y ago
        This is ridiculous. London and Scotland overwhelmingly voted to stay. I have no love for labour after the alternate vote referendum but anyone who blames this on labour is clearly trying to rewrite history for scumbag David Cameron.
        matthewmacleod 10y ago
        I'm no defender of Cameron, but the Labour party in the UK have absolutely failed – both recently and during their last period in government – to engage with long-term problems of identity, especially in the north of England. A huge number of traditionally Labour-voting areas have opted to leave the EU, and the party have to bear some responsibility for that.
        mlnox 10y ago
        I'm not sure you can characterise Scotland as Labour anymore. Largest party in the Scottish parliament are SNP, second largest Conservative, Labour are a measly third place. As much as London is Labour supporting it's only a very small part of their supporter base, their traditional heartlands are Wales and the North of the UK, both of which overwhelmingly voted to leave.
sz4kerto 10y ago
> He is the biggest looser in this situation Except he isn't, really -- he loses his political position, but he and his family won't be existentially affected by what's going to happen, as opposed to probably tens of millions of people all around Europe.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonmum 10y ago
  The EU's common agricultural policy was actively favoring and subsidizing large EU based multinationals and blocking entry into the market by small scale farmers and producers in developing countries. Seems to me like a huge new market called "the UK" just opened up for genuine and fair trade. So overall, this is probably good for hundreds of millions of people around the world.
  - viraptor 10y ago
    The policies don't have to change. It's not like the UK severs all the connections with everyone. Multinationals will stay and ensure the new policies and trade treaties allow them to continue.
  - ivan_gammel 10y ago
    Isn't UK going to protect its own businesses and jobs? Not everyone is pro-trade in Leave camp, afaik.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      Yes, the UK still grows half it's own food, those businesses will be lobbying hard.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
    At last UK farmers can sell their top quality fruit and vegetables to the rest of the world.
actuator 10y ago
With emerging talk of Irish unification and Scottish independence after the referendum, some legacy he is going to leave behind.
- tehwalrus 10y ago
  Irish unification would be a silver lining to this awfulness.
  - anonymousDan 10y ago
    As someone from Ireland I'm really not sure I could be bothered dealing with all the shit that could entail. Would prefer if they just went independent and joined the EU as a separate country.
    - matthewmacleod 10y ago
      Unfortunately Northern Ireland doesn't have the economy or infrastructure to realistically function as an independent state at this point. You never know about the future, but it's likely not on the table any time soon.
      - lostlogin 10y ago
        Which is ironic given how long foreign rule has had to sort the place out.
        hardlianotion 10y ago
        Not really. Northern Ireland is quite small.
      - Grishnakh 10y ago
        Why does it need to be large to function independently? There are a bunch of far smaller nations in the EU/Europe: Luxembourg, Andorra, San Marino, Liechtenstein, etc. If Northern Ireland became independent, it could just join the EU (regular Ireland is also an EU member), so they wouldn't have to maintain their own currency at least, and would benefit from the free trade. If Luxembourg can function as it is, I don't see why Northern Ireland can't do the same.

jkelsey 10y ago

Wow. A new Prime Minister and a new President within about a month of each other. At this point though, it doesn't seem like the former will matter much anymore. I hope this shit hole of a year turns around for the second half.

PietdeVries 10y ago
And so it begins... If a Brexit-fanatic like Boris somehow gets hold of the UK, and Trump does the same in the US, we'll be looking back at "those good old days prior to June 2016" in no time... The world-economy will get more introvert, like the "me first" kids at school who don't care about the rest. And that will be the fuel of the upcoming unrest in the rest of the world...
- ajuc 10y ago
  There's already unrest in the world. It all feels like 1930s since a few years :/
  - p51ngh 10y ago
    You must be a really old chap.
    - ajuc 10y ago
      Like I imagine it felt in 1930s.
- simonbarker87 10y ago
  I really don't think Boris cared one way of the other (Remain/Leave), he just saw a way to position himself for PM and took it.
  - Ntrails 10y ago
    Given that he's been writing against the EU for 15 years or more, that's pretty unlikely.

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago

Every cloud has a silver lining.

lunchTime42 10y ago
That silver lining is the sun waiting to come back to give you skin-cancer.
- YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
  Classy.
IshKebab 10y ago
Wait to see who replaces him before you say that.

venomsnake 10y ago

As if the pound needed more beating today. Oh well he was not at the level of Disraeli, Churchill or Thatcher. He made that mess and didn't even had the balls to pull the trigger of brexit himself. All hail Boris Johnson. Crazy hairdos on top of influential Anglo Saxon countries is bull market it seems. We will live in interesting times.

jacquesm 10y ago
> Crazy hairdos on top of influential Anglo Saxon countries is bull market it seems. Let's hope NL will manage to avoid that. In a way the 'brexit' may be the strongest shot in the arm for the rest of European unity if the consequences are quick and harsh enough. That would be a real pity for the people in the UK, but it may still have some positive effect. And there is always a way back. For now, this is a pretty black day in history.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  I am optimistic ... The EU has leverage. And the revanche towards UK may unite the continent. Also the Anglo-Saxon worldview ... and their laizes faire approach is incompatible with the continental worldview. I honestly believe that UK impeded European unity with their "special" status inside. If the EU plays its cards correctly we may remove the U from UK, take in the parts, and then include England and Whales ... on our terms. Realpolitik is fun thing to play.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > Realpolitik is fun thing to play. I don't agree with that. You're assuming we know the outcome and with shifts like these the real results won't be in for generations to come.
  - chappi42 10y ago
    > I am optimistic ... The EU has leverage. And the revanche towards UK may unite the continent. Many don't like the 'heavy hands' of Russia, Turkey, China and then here we have a disappointing, difficult voting result and we (you) talk about revanche? The correct answer should imho be that EU introspects about what needs to be changed that such an important country as the UK would happily vote to participate.

gonzo41 10y ago

So today Britain cripples it own economy for nothing. But hey, no more Cameron!. I call it evens.

tehbeard 10y ago
Probably end up with Boris. Suddenly Trump doesn't seem so bad.
- DanBC 10y ago
  The Borris / Farage coalition feels like some ridiculous parody joke from "Day Today" / "On the Hour".
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Despite the fact I don't agree with his position on this I'd rather have Gove than Boris.
x5n1 10y ago
The economy is not everything. I know most people including leaders these days think all political decisions should be made keeping the economy in mind, and that's the most important thing. But I don't think this to be the case. Sovereignty and the right for people to make the rules that govern them are just as important if not more important than the economy.
- dba7dba 10y ago
  Giving people freedom of self determination was in. At least for oppressed people. And it seems like UK people exercised that freedom.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Not having an income isn't very freeing.
simonswords82 10y ago
There has been so much scaremongering in the UK press that the markets are now reacting accordingly. Ultimately trade deals are important not just to the UK but to the countries it trades with. People in power will make deals happen because they have to. There's going to be some short term pain - but ultimately everything will balance out.

tkyjonathan 10y ago

Its his fault we're here. His policies made inequality in the UK so high that people got angry and started blaming the EU and mainly migrants.

Ntrails 10y ago
Nothing to do with that. He threw out the referendum promise in order to secure power, and then failed to get Europe to agree to the headline changes which would easily have secured the vote in his "renegotiation". "Austerity" is not to blame for this. You can argue EU recalcitrance played a part, as did labour party weakness, but it's on him. His legacy will be this vote, this loss, and his failure to see through the consequences of his actions.
- CommanderData 10y ago
  > "Austerity" is not to blame for this. Austerity would be to blame for this - it contributed to people being more anti-immigrant, though indirectly. Him calling the referendum, the outcome - are related to his parties policies without isolation.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    We haven't had austerity in the UK, we have had nothing like what Spain or Greece have had to deal with.
    - CommanderData 10y ago
      Comparing UK with Spain or Greece? The UK was the fifth largest economy in the world. I don't your comparison to Greece is a fair, to say the least. We've had an onslaught of austerity measures and public cuts too many to list in a sitting.
      - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        Yet unemployment is only 5.6%.

geff82 10y ago

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignore the voice of the voters, Boaty McBoatface-style?

CommanderData 10y ago
This government is for austerity and cutting public services and expenditure. He is no less a reflection of his party. Next PM's in line: Theresa May: Pro snoopers (spying) charter. I don't like the term police state but her actions are worryingly in line. Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His selling point being the golden coloured hairy creature that has permanently occupied his scalp. Yes. We have a great line up of next potential PM's for Britain.
- fredley 10y ago
  Theresa May is one of the scariest contenders as far as I've seen. Very pro-surveillance and anti-open internet. She would be a (nother) disaster for UK tech. If there's anybody left who hasn't moved to Dublin/Berlin by October.
  - geff82 10y ago
    The problem we currently have in politics it demography. People get older and older, the baby boomers forgot to "produce" children. Elder people tend to be deeply conservative and anti-technology. And as they are the majority now, they vote for stuff that they think is right ("let's 100% control that freaking thing called internet") and totally strangle the younger generation with their bad taste and shortsightedness.
    - e12e 10y ago
      I find it at a little odd to read this characterisation on HN of all places. I mean, it's pretty much run by "old" technologists, right?

xedarius 10y ago

Throughout the campaign he has been claiming the UK are not quitters, first thing he does, is quit!

pyb 10y ago

What has he ever done, other than reletentlessy dividing his country, every way he could, for all of his 6 years ?

edent 10y ago
Equal Marriage was a good move which was broadly supported. Other than that, not much.
- verbify 10y ago
  I think 'religion is the opium of the people' cuts both ways. Politicians will push through popular socio-economic policies (e.g. gay marriage) in order to be able to get enough support to also push through their unpopular economic policies.
- keithpeter 10y ago
  Yes, the resignation speech mentioned the equal marriage legislation and foreign aid specifically. I suspect that is a semaphore for the successor (who will be further to the right) to leave those firmly alone.

fahrradflucht 10y ago

In my opinion, the most interesting thing he said in that speech is that he doesn't plan to trigger article 50 immediately. That will be controversial in both, the EU and Britain I think.

gonvaled 10y ago
If the UK starts muddling through, the EU should firmly act and suspend UK membership: we can not allow uncertainty, and a future ex-member abusing the good will of the rest of the EU. Cameron promised to trigger article 50 immediately: if he does not, we should force him to.
- masklinn 10y ago
  > Cameron promised to trigger article 50 immediately Did he? edit: it seems to as the following quote is frequent (and from as early as February) though I can't find an original citation: > Mr Cameron previously said he would trigger Article 50 as soon as possible after a Leave vote though it follows up with this interesting > but Boris Johnson and Michael Gove who led the campaign to get Britain out of the EU have said he should not rush into it. And the following "wtf-worthy" declaration: > They also said they wanted to make immediate changes before the UK actually leaves the EU, such as curbing the power of EU judges and limiting the free movement of workers, potentially in breach of the UK's treaty obligations.
- youngtaff 10y ago
  There is no process for the EU to suspend the UK or for the EU to trigger article 50
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    You are not suggesting that the UK leaving the EU will be done on UK terms only, do you? Like "we get that funding chunk and then we leave" or "we attend that EU parliament session and then we leave" or "we don't say how or when, we'll just leave, whenever it suits us, and please don't disturb because I am too busy doing important things which you can not hope to comprehend". How long do you think the EU will wait for the princess to make up her mind? I do not know the exact mechanisms by which the EU can force the UK out, but one thing I know: we can not allow us the luxury of keeping the enemy inside the gates. I for one hope this is done with asap. Out is out.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

DanielBMarkham 10y ago

For those of us who do not live in GB, could somebody ELI5 about how these things work? Does the Prime Minister just hang out until he decides he's had enough? (Yes, I know I could Wiki it. For others browsing the thread, however, 2-5 sentences on how it all works would be useful.)

lordnacho 10y ago
It's a referendum, not a general election. He could hang around, but I suppose it wouldn't be long before he got a vote of no confidence. The plan is to sit around until the Tories find a new leader and try to hand over gracefully. Whether there will be a new general election is also not part of the referendum, but it's a thinkable possibility.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  I guess it depends on whether they think they can win or not, my guess is we will get one quite quickly (before people find out exactly what they have done).
thomasfoster96 10y ago
Prime Ministers in countries that have them are usually the leader of the largest party in the lower house of their Parliament. David Cameron doesn't have to resign immediately, because he's still the leader of the largest party. He's resigning (or rather has announced he will resign before October) because he had certainly given the impression to his party that if 'Remain' didn't win, he'd resign. He could try and stay on, but the party might get rid of him and vote to make someone else leader (therefore forcing him to resign as Prime Minister).
- DanielBMarkham 10y ago
  So he resigns, but he was elected as a representative in the lower house. That means he won't be PM anymore, and he goes back to being a member of the lower house? Does the house pick one of its own members for the job, or does the majority party get to pick anybody at all that they want to be PM? Do PMs that leave go back to being house members? Seems like that would be kinda weird.

ajuc 10y ago

I find it very amusing that England stopped Scotland from leaving (among other arguments) by saying "You would have to enter EU again", and then left EU the next year :)

sleepychu 10y ago
I can assure you that the Scots don't find that amusing at all P:
- antod 10y ago
  Well you do get to use all of their own arguments/rationalisations against them next time around.

chappi42 10y ago

Maybe the EU as is should also resign and reappear in a better shape. Europe will stay Europe and I don't think everything will shatter now. On the contrary, isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-negotiated. I'm quite sure that many people are not happy with the current EU arrangement and would vote to leave (if they could and/or if they weren't so much bound by economic benefits as e.g. Gibraltar). An EU reform is needed and I hope this Brexit serves as another signal that it is really about time to speak honestly about 'some issues' and try to find solutions for them.

Spearchucker 10y ago
"...isn't it a nice demonstration of democracy and treaties can be re-negotiated..." You understand how this works, right? As part of the EU the UK has bartering clout. As an independent little island with a huge trade deficit and a weak £ it has nothing. So a trade deal with China, for instance, would end with China trading in the UK, and the UK waiting 15 years before trading in China. There is hyperbole in what I'm saying, which is probably a result of the disappointing outcome of the referendum, but... the UK as a trading partner has nothing to offer anyone.
- chappi42 10y ago
  Agree, independent little is ..difficult. My main argument though was that the EU must somehow? reform and that this vote was a (partly dissapointing, partly brave) request for it. UK belongs to Europe and a re-negotiated 'Union-solution' can and will be found, I'm quite sure. EU also has nothing to offer if too many countries leave...
- sievebrain 10y ago
  The idea of "clout" is an incorrect belief that is not supported by the data: http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from-eu-collective-clout http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/no-benefit-for-uk-trade-from...
  - Spearchucker 10y ago

return0 10y ago

This thread is political. Unlike the other thread about the referendum , it has derailed to name-calling.

dredmorbius 10y ago
The level of discourse is poor. That said, what happens in a global financial center almost certainly will have impacts on Silicon Valley and the startup environment.

reitoei 10y ago

So your argument is basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU

anothermouse 10y ago
> So your argument is basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTnNKhF-EU s/your/their/. It is not my argument, I'm a Tory voting, skilled, financial sector worker, who voted remain. But I'm being an idiot arguing with you. I don't think dismissively posting a clip of southpark has advanced the discussion. This subject never got the detailed and grown up discussion it deserved as one side continually dismissed the other as racist xenophobes (which you are underhandedly implying they are here) and the other harped on about '350 million a week' continuously, even thought that was thoroughly debunked. There were real substantive issues to be discussed and we failed to do it meaningfully. Kind of like this thread.
- reitoei 10y ago
  No, it hasn't advanced the discussion, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of the argument. I have absolutely no doubt you are a well-educated, skilled worker, but even you know yourself, many of people are who blame immigrants for taking their jobs/disenfranchising them in some way, are gullible Sun-reading, bone-idle fuckwits who couldn't be arsed working/upskilling. Sad but true, and frankly, as an Irish person who lived in London for years, I find the 'blame immigrants' rhetoric absolutely terrifying.
dang 10y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11969620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11969620 and marked it off-topic.
- reitoei 10y ago
  Apologies.

vijayr 10y ago

Can someone explain what happens next? Will UK really leave the EU? If yes, how long will it take? Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process?

kale 10y ago
Cameron steps down in October. A new Prime Minister will then initiate leaving the EU (per Treaty of Lisbon I think). This will take at least two years, possibly longer. The market volatility isn't because they're out of the EU or will be that soon, rather everyone planning on a 2018-2019 exit.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > The market volatility isn't because they're out of the EU or will be that soon, rather everyone planning on a 2018-2019 exit. Well, not just that. There's also other things, like and the resulting lack of certainty of the near-term future for the government of the UK -- and the leadership of its major parties -- which creates plenty of uncertainty on policy and prospects in a much shorter term than the exit itself, as well as the fact that the exit vote, as I understand, kills the agreement that had been negotiated that provided what was described as a "new settlement" on Britain's special relationship within the EU, which was contingent on a "Remain" result in the referendum: that would have taken effect (and, thus, its being cancelled has effects) sooner than the exit now will take effect.
bsimpson 10y ago
The EU asked them to leave this morning. [0] http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plunged-crisis-britain-votes-leave-eu-european-union http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plung...
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Can someone explain what happens next? People can guess, but there's a lot of uncertainty on some points. > Will UK really leave the EU? Most likely, as I understand it, the next British government will formally start the (at least) two year process of exiting the EU. In the short term, they are still in the EU. > Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process? As I understand, under the applicable treaty, the UK has to formally initiate the withdrawal process. The EU has asked them to do so without delay, which is what Cameron had promised before the vote, but Cameron has since said that he plans to leave that to the next PM.

univalent 10y ago

Outsmarted himself and fucked up royally. Time to go.