5 ms·

I liked the article, but this is like the cultural equivalent of Not Invented Here. Does it really matter that organized Christianity believes that a guy woke

I liked the article, but this is like the cultural equivalent of Not Invented Here. Does it really matter that organized Christianity believes that a guy woke up from the dead? If you want a sense of community and the rituals that go along with it, then you could absolutely join a church of your choosing and just not believe in zombie messiahs. The wife and I have been talking about this at great length as of late. We are not wired to believe in the supernatural, but I am having a hard time coming up with reasons why that would prevent us from finding a church to go to. It does limit which churches might be accepting of us, as I will not be handling snakes or washing anyone's feet. But as churches get more and more devoid of fundamentalism (a survival maneuver), they become more and more like the thing being talked about in the fine article. Maybe it'll all meet in the middle one day.

VLM 11y ago
"just not believe" One popular meme you'll see is the pre-christian greco-romans didn't saw religion and belief as somewhat orthogonal. So you went to the ritual/party at the temple to hang out, show off your (purchased) social class within the temple, and do the ritual, show off to everyone else that you did the ritual, show off how well you memorized the allegorical tales, etc. Personal belief was not a terribly high priority. How much of this is "real" analysis vs Victorian era make believe is not entirely clear.
Nursie 11y ago
>> you could absolutely join a church of your choosing and just not believe in zombie messiahs. The other people in your church who do believe in zombie messiahs might all get a bit hacked off when they find out though.
- angrybits 11y ago
  If you join a fundamentalist cult, then yes. Lots of modern churches are non-denominational and quite relaxed. In fact, they are surprisingly similar to the entity being described in the article.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    I'm pretty sure a belief in the major parts of the bible are necessary, are they not? I mean, I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Without that, well is that 'church' ?
    - prewett 11y ago
      Generally churches have a minimum set of beliefs to be accepted as an official member. However, most churches welcome people who don't believe to be part of the community. There are limitations--non-believers usually can't be part of leadership (one of the reasons being the reason you gave)--but it's part of the Church's mission to bring to goodness of God, community included, to non-believers.
    - jbarham 11y ago
      > I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Yes: "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith." 1 Corinthians 15:12-14
      - spacehome 11y ago
        I don't think it's very useful to quote the bible as a source of what Christians believe. So far as I can tell, only a tiny sliver of Christians believe the work in its entirety.
        nogridbag 11y ago
        I've always assumed the reason is because only a tiny sliver of Christians have actually read the whole bible - so they probably have no idea what it says. A quick google search seems to confirm my assumption [1]. [1] http://www.christianity.com/1270946/ http://www.christianity.com/1270946/
martinpw 11y ago
I think it is a very valid option. At my previous neighborhood mainstream church (Methodist) which I attended for a while, many attendees did not really believe in most of what was preached. For them it was mostly a social gathering, an opportunity to sing enthusiastically together (and how often do you get to do that today?), and a lot of social events (church picnics etc). As a social group it worked very well. People really would help each other out. The subject of religion rarely came up in any of these social events, and you could certainly get by without having any real belief or even much knowledge of traditional Christianity. I've been trying to think why it worked while secular communities do not, since it was in a sense a secular community. All I can think of is that most members had been there all their lives, it was what they grew into, and it was welcoming to outsiders. If you can handle the cognitive dissonance of listening to sermons every week that you do not really believe, I think it can be a plausible way of getting that kind of social engagement.

VLM 11y ago

"just not believe" One popular meme you'll see is the pre-christian greco-romans didn't saw religion and belief as somewhat orthogonal. So you went to the ritual/party at the temple to hang out, show off your (purchased) social class within the temple, and do the ritual, show off to everyone else that you did the ritual, show off how well you memorized the allegorical tales, etc. Personal belief was not a terribly high priority. How much of this is "real" analysis vs Victorian era make believe is not entirely clear.

Nursie 11y ago

>> you could absolutely join a church of your choosing and just not believe in zombie messiahs. The other people in your church who do believe in zombie messiahs might all get a bit hacked off when they find out though.

angrybits 11y ago
If you join a fundamentalist cult, then yes. Lots of modern churches are non-denominational and quite relaxed. In fact, they are surprisingly similar to the entity being described in the article.
- Nursie 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure a belief in the major parts of the bible are necessary, are they not? I mean, I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Without that, well is that 'church' ?
  - prewett 11y ago
    Generally churches have a minimum set of beliefs to be accepted as an official member. However, most churches welcome people who don't believe to be part of the community. There are limitations--non-believers usually can't be part of leadership (one of the reasons being the reason you gave)--but it's part of the Church's mission to bring to goodness of God, community included, to non-believers.
  - jbarham 11y ago
    > I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Yes: "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith." 1 Corinthians 15:12-14
    - spacehome 11y ago
      I don't think it's very useful to quote the bible as a source of what Christians believe. So far as I can tell, only a tiny sliver of Christians believe the work in its entirety.
      - nogridbag 11y ago
        I've always assumed the reason is because only a tiny sliver of Christians have actually read the whole bible - so they probably have no idea what it says. A quick google search seems to confirm my assumption [1]. [1] http://www.christianity.com/1270946/ http://www.christianity.com/1270946/

martinpw 11y ago

I think it is a very valid option. At my previous neighborhood mainstream church (Methodist) which I attended for a while, many attendees did not really believe in most of what was preached. For them it was mostly a social gathering, an opportunity to sing enthusiastically together (and how often do you get to do that today?), and a lot of social events (church picnics etc). As a social group it worked very well. People really would help each other out. The subject of religion rarely came up in any of these social events, and you could certainly get by without having any real belief or even much knowledge of traditional Christianity. I've been trying to think why it worked while secular communities do not, since it was in a sense a secular community. All I can think of is that most members had been there all their lives, it was what they grew into, and it was welcoming to outsiders. If you can handle the cognitive dissonance of listening to sermons every week that you do not really believe, I think it can be a plausible way of getting that kind of social engagement.