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Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-

Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). You might disagree with Apple's priorities, but it doesn't mean other browsers are "better" per se, they're just different. Safari's release cycle, however, is stupid per se.

Tloewald 11y ago
Exactly. Apple adds features based on what users seem to need, not what programmers want (Google) or programmers want to work on (Mozilla). It should also be noted that Safari's accessibility support is head and shoulders above anything (including IE with dedicated third-party extensions -- our blind accessibility guy who has access to every accessible technology under the sun simply uses Apple devices at home). Wake me up when IE is open source, Google gives flying f* about accessibility, and Firefox is better than a distant second.
yAnonymous 11y ago
As stated in the article, often Safari's implementation just sucks.
Touche 11y ago
> Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). So then let's name these things, specifically, if you really believe that. I'm not aware of any new specs related to animations in the last couple of years. Can you name them?
- yoklov 11y ago
  I'm not really well informed here, but I'd guess that he means how the animations, visual effects, Ui, etc. actually look and behave, rather than new specs. One thing I've noticed several times is that in chrome, many CSS animations aren't animated across sub-pixel boundaries. I don't know necessarily that safari does this (again, I'm not well informed here -- for all I know this has been fixed in Chrome), but if they did, that would count in my book, despite not being a new spec. (Honestly, my suspicion is that they aren't though, since a high dpi screen removes most of the need for sub-pixel accuracy).
- millstone 11y ago
  Examples are Reader Mode and Power Saver, both features designed to reduce the impact of, let's say, non-central content. Ad-supported browsers are not exactly eager to implement these, naturally.
mbell 11y ago
> In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). I use Safari for all my general browsing for one reason: It uses 1/2 to 1/5 the power that chrome does.
- ben010783 11y ago
  I doubt it will ever be as good as Safari, but Google is working on this: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/12/chrome-os-x-performance-improvements-safari/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/12/chrome-os-x-performance-...
  - mbell 11y ago
    Unfortunately the biggest problem by far is video playback and for whatever reason they seem to refuse to fix the problem. Here is a simple test I just ran: Using https://github.com/erkserkserks/h264ify https://github.com/erkserkserks/h264ify for blocking VP9 2015 rMBP 13", 3.1Ghz i7, 16GB (defaults to software rasterization in chrome) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK9Im1eP3DI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK9Im1eP3DI (1080p60 video) Power is CPU Package Total (core + GPU). Chrome VP9: 26W Chrome VP9 + Force GPU Acceleration: 28W Chrome h264: 19W Chrome h264 + Force GPU Acceleration: 13W Safari: 4W Additional comments: This is all in window at the default 'theater mode' size of youtube. I can't full screen either of the VP9 options without completely maxing out the CPU, dropping frames and during my laptop into a frying pan. Its really hot even in window with chrome VP9 using ~175% CPU.
    - h43k3r 11y ago
      Any idea how does it achieve that?
      - mbell 11y ago
        There is no reason for h264 decode to take much power at all, it's all done in hardware now (or should be done in hardware). In other words, Safari's power number isn't surprising but I don't know how chrome manages to use so much processing power. Even my cell phone can decode 1080p60 without catching fire but chrome manages to bring a $2200 laptop to it's knees doing it.
atacrawl 11y ago
In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). I'm a Safari user who develops first and foremost in Safari, and I completely disagree with this. Chrome runs rings around Safari in UI animation performance, it's almost embarrassing.
- carussell 11y ago
  I read this as a comment about the design decisions in the Safari UI, not how it performs.
  - jasonlotito 11y ago
    So the stuff that I shouldn't spend time using in a browser? I don't really open up a browser hoping to spend time with it's UI.
    - carussell 11y ago
      First: I'm not the one who made the original comment, and therefore not the person you should be taking this up with. So why have you written this to me? Second: If you are going to involve me in this, then I'll point out that of course people care about their browser UI, otherwise everyone would be using something like Conkeror, except with an even more ascetic UI philosophy.
fuj 11y ago
Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. Fanboyism 101 2nd Edition Chapter 1 How to spot an Apple fanboy 1000 miles away
shkkmo 11y ago
> Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. Which is exactly what makes safari the new IE. Going it's own way and not even bothering to try to implement the new standards used in other browsers.

Tloewald 11y ago

Exactly. Apple adds features based on what users seem to need, not what programmers want (Google) or programmers want to work on (Mozilla). It should also be noted that Safari's accessibility support is head and shoulders above anything (including IE with dedicated third-party extensions -- our blind accessibility guy who has access to every accessible technology under the sun simply uses Apple devices at home). Wake me up when IE is open source, Google gives flying f* about accessibility, and Firefox is better than a distant second.

yAnonymous 11y ago

As stated in the article, often Safari's implementation just sucks.

Touche 11y ago

> Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). So then let's name these things, specifically, if you really believe that. I'm not aware of any new specs related to animations in the last couple of years. Can you name them?

yoklov 11y ago
I'm not really well informed here, but I'd guess that he means how the animations, visual effects, Ui, etc. actually look and behave, rather than new specs. One thing I've noticed several times is that in chrome, many CSS animations aren't animated across sub-pixel boundaries. I don't know necessarily that safari does this (again, I'm not well informed here -- for all I know this has been fixed in Chrome), but if they did, that would count in my book, despite not being a new spec. (Honestly, my suspicion is that they aren't though, since a high dpi screen removes most of the need for sub-pixel accuracy).
millstone 11y ago
Examples are Reader Mode and Power Saver, both features designed to reduce the impact of, let's say, non-central content. Ad-supported browsers are not exactly eager to implement these, naturally.

mbell 11y ago

> In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). I use Safari for all my general browsing for one reason: It uses 1/2 to 1/5 the power that chrome does.

ben010783 11y ago
I doubt it will ever be as good as Safari, but Google is working on this: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/12/chrome-os-x-performance-improvements-safari/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/12/chrome-os-x-performance-...
- mbell 11y ago
  Unfortunately the biggest problem by far is video playback and for whatever reason they seem to refuse to fix the problem. Here is a simple test I just ran: Using https://github.com/erkserkserks/h264ify https://github.com/erkserkserks/h264ify for blocking VP9 2015 rMBP 13", 3.1Ghz i7, 16GB (defaults to software rasterization in chrome) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK9Im1eP3DI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK9Im1eP3DI (1080p60 video) Power is CPU Package Total (core + GPU). Chrome VP9: 26W Chrome VP9 + Force GPU Acceleration: 28W Chrome h264: 19W Chrome h264 + Force GPU Acceleration: 13W Safari: 4W Additional comments: This is all in window at the default 'theater mode' size of youtube. I can't full screen either of the VP9 options without completely maxing out the CPU, dropping frames and during my laptop into a frying pan. Its really hot even in window with chrome VP9 using ~175% CPU.
  - h43k3r 11y ago
    Any idea how does it achieve that?
    - mbell 11y ago
      There is no reason for h264 decode to take much power at all, it's all done in hardware now (or should be done in hardware). In other words, Safari's power number isn't surprising but I don't know how chrome manages to use so much processing power. Even my cell phone can decode 1080p60 without catching fire but chrome manages to bring a $2200 laptop to it's knees doing it.

atacrawl 11y ago

In fact, Safari is still the best browser when it comes to everything UI-related (animations, visual effects, …). I'm a Safari user who develops first and foremost in Safari, and I completely disagree with this. Chrome runs rings around Safari in UI animation performance, it's almost embarrassing.

carussell 11y ago
I read this as a comment about the design decisions in the Safari UI, not how it performs.
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  So the stuff that I shouldn't spend time using in a browser? I don't really open up a browser hoping to spend time with it's UI.
  - carussell 11y ago
    First: I'm not the one who made the original comment, and therefore not the person you should be taking this up with. So why have you written this to me? Second: If you are going to involve me in this, then I'll point out that of course people care about their browser UI, otherwise everyone would be using something like Conkeror, except with an even more ascetic UI philosophy.

fuj 11y ago

Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. Fanboyism 101 2nd Edition Chapter 1 How to spot an Apple fanboy 1000 miles away

shkkmo 11y ago

> Safari isn't "lagging behind other browsers", it's just implementing different things. Which is exactly what makes safari the new IE. Going it's own way and not even bothering to try to implement the new standards used in other browsers.