8 ms·

“Thank You” in Hindi and English Mean Very Different Things

162 points by darkroasted 11y ago

darkroasted 11y ago
As an American, I've sometimes been bothered by the use of thank you. It is fine as a pleasantry at a restaurant. But it always felt odd coming from a boss or from the company CEO. I think to myself, "I didn't do this piece of work as a favor to you, I didn't because you are paying me and you told me to do it." It is interesting to read that this view is more common in other cultures. I also dislike putting "thank you" in an email, before they have agreed to do the favor or task. It feels very presumptuous. Am I crazy or do other people feel the same way.
- ScottBurson 11y ago
  I had a manager who made a practice of thanking people when they did things he had asked them to. I hadn't seen it done that assiduously before, and I rather got to like it. I try to do the same now, when appropriate. I agree, though, that pre-thanking someone before they've done what you ask is presumptuous.
  - mgkimsal 11y ago
    That pre-thank may be meant as "thank you for your attention to this matter" vs "thank you for doing the work".
- paulsutter 11y ago
  Thanking is not used to acknowledge a favor, thanking expresses gratitude. It means your boss appreciates your effort, that he doesn't consider you a robot who does work solely for the money. Maybe he thinks you put a little bit of yourself into the work.
  - seszett 11y ago
    > he doesn't consider you a robot who does work solely for the money. Looks like he might be wrong though.
- zhte415 11y ago
  The single best compliment I had from a senior manager after emailing the findings of quite an arduous 2-month project early in my career was a one word email: "Good." Put me on cloud nine. I think it depends on who's doing the talking. Saying thanks more bring inflation to the term, leading to making up more terms when we really mean thanks.
- chrisra 11y ago
  It's nice to find a higher purpose in your work. If you are paid $10 and work worth $15, you're giving of yourself for others. Work is such a big part of life, it is good to go the extra mile and serve others while you're there. Sure, you're paid for it, but your motivation can become "I'm doing this because I want my boss and the customer to have a better life."
- ljak 11y ago
  > a modern boss is tolerant, he behaves like a colleague of ours, sharing dirty jokes, inviting us for a drink, openly displaying his weaknesses, admitting that he is “merely human like us”. He is deeply offended if we remind him that he is our boss – however, it is this very rejection of explicit authority that guarantees his de facto power. > This is why the first gesture of liberation is to force the master to act as one: our only defence is to reject his “warm human” approach and to insist that he should treat us with cold distance. We live in weird times in which we are compelled to behave as if we are free, so that the unsayable is not our freedom but the very fact of our servitude. - Slavoj Žižek
- MacsHeadroom 11y ago
  Imagine the distance thanking someone for sex would put between you. Like the scenario you gave, it implies the other person was doing you a favor- which also implies the act wasn't totally genuine. I grew up in North America. But I rarely thank anyone. I think I've thanked people in a work setting maybe twice in my entire career- and only because the other party was doing me a favour.
- Retra 11y ago
  > I also dislike putting "thank you" in an email, before they have agreed to do the favor or task. It feels very presumptuous. You're thanking someone for taking the time to read your email, not for completing some other task. You can say "thank you for your time" or "thank you for your consideration" if that makes more sense.
bbgm 11y ago
This is partly in line with my experiences. It's more subtle than it comes across in the article. I've thanked servers, taxi drivers, and others, but don't recall thanking a bus driver. I have thanked my parents and they've never had issues. However, in general thanking elders is considered bad form, but asking them or appreciating their blessing isn't. Is that very different?
- laex 11y ago
  Interesting. It's quite common in Australia to thank the bus drivers.
  - NeutronBoy 11y ago
    Yeah it might just be a habit, but I say thank-you to heaps of 'service' workers - just a simple 'Thanks mate' when I get off the bus, or get my coffee, etc. Why wouldn't you? I mean, I know it's their job, but you can still be polite about it.
msie 11y ago
As people say (more eloquently) in the comments, he's just wrong assuming that people in America say "Thank You" just to end a transaction. But it makes for a better narrative, doesn't it?
jonathonf 11y ago
In other news, different cultures are different.
hliyan 11y ago
There's a similar problem with my native language[1] and "sorry". The standard word, samaavenna literally means "forgive me". As a former British Colony (Sri Lanka) most of us have got used to the English words -- even non-English speakers will automatically say "sorry" or "thank you". But once "thank you" is said, most people awkwardly respond with "ah", because there's no phrase in the language for "you're welcome". Come to think of it, we don't even have a universal second person (a "you"). You need to know the social standing of the person before you can address him/her! [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhalese_language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhalese_language
- linuxydave 11y ago
  >But once "thank you" is said, most people awkwardly respond with "ah", because there's no phrase in the language for "you're welcome". In London I've noticed that instead of saying, "you're welcome" people prefer to say "no worries", which is far more casual. I don't know why that phrase started to be used but if I had to give a guess I'd say that it was out of awkwardness because there wasn't a less formal/personal response to use.
  - hliyan 11y ago
    I've heard Australians say "no worries" (often with a trailing "mate") a lot. I always thought it originated there.
    - danieltillett 11y ago
      As an Australian I can say that "no worries" is very common here (ocker). It has a bit of an ambiguous meaning as it implies that the person saying thank you didn't really need to, but at the same time it is a means of acknowledging that you recognise and appreciate the thank you.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
  - 11y ago
andrey-p 11y ago
I live in the UK, and whenever I travel back to Bulgaria, I get told off for saying "sorry" and "thank you" all the time. In Bulgarian, the word for "thank you" is "благодаря" ("blagodarya") but people often fall back to a simple "мерси" ("merci" - the French word, yes) for transactional thank-yous. I'm not really sure whether that's because "благодаря" is reserved for sincere, heartfelt thanksgiving or because the word is just too long to say very often.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - psykovsky 11y ago
    He wasn't saying merci is yes in french, he was saying that it is indeed the french word merci they use in Bulgaria.
  - mrcarrot 11y ago
    I think the parent meant "Yes, we use the french word 'merci'", not that he thought 'merci' meant 'yes'.
- bolaft 11y ago
  > ("merci" - the French word, yes) Do you know why?
  - vlasev 11y ago
    French had a large influence on Bulgarian. A lot of bulgarian words are borrowed from French.
- vlasev 11y ago
  I think it's mostly because it's so long and somewhat convoluted. "Благодаря" has 4 syllables while "мерси" only has 2. It's similar to saying "thanks" instead of "thank you" but that comparison is lost because the two words in Bulgarian are so different.
- ajuc 11y ago
paulsutter 11y ago
I say thank you often, and every single time it's because I feel gratitude. This guy is doing it wrong. > After moving to America, it took me several years to say thanks to people without actually meaning it. Putting “thank you” on the tip of my tongue, ready to escape at a moment’s notice, rather than extracting it from the depths of my heart, was one of the hardest language lessons I had to learn in the United States.
- ajuc 11y ago
  You feel gratitude when you receive change from the shop clerk and say "thanks, bye"? I guess the word "gratitude" is routinely badly translated, too, in that case.
  - learnstats2 11y ago
    > You feel gratitude when you receive change from the shop clerk and say "thanks, bye"? I know that many people are saying this robotically, but I personally feel genuinely grateful that the shop clerk has chosen to do this, and that they typically do a good job - providing me with a good level of service that greatly benefits me. I recognise that it is not a fun job and that clerks often have to suffer poor conditions and that if I had to do that job, I would be mind-numbed with boredom. So, I look the shop clerk in the eye and give my thanks fully and properly. It's obvious that it's appreciated and it's obvious that few other people are taking any time to genuinely thank shop clerks.
    - icebraining 11y ago
      It's obvious that it's appreciated Not around here, it isn't. I tried that three times, giving up after getting a mix of disinterest and hostility. Which frankly confirms my instincts, I only tried because I've learned not to assume that my preferences match the general public's.
      - learnstats2 11y ago
        While I show you respect for your effort, you could try it 3 times per day. If you feel genuinely grateful, I recommend that you try more. Some people don't appreciate it; some people think you are being ungenuine; some people don't notice or care; some people find it uncomfortable that you're choosing to break the social code; some people are confused by that. Yes, you're right. So what? Are you giving thanks because you want a service worker to validate you, or because you are grateful to the other person and you want to show your appreciation? I interact with many store clerks more than once and, on the second occasion, I want them to know clearly that I wasn't pretending when I gave thanks the first time. A majority appreciate it.
jmadsen 11y ago
Perhaps he doesn't understand that "thank you" is usually meant as a simple, polite acknowledgement. A heartfelt expression of gratitude in English is said not with a stock phrase, but by stopping, looking at the person, and explaining your gratitude to them. He is confusing our stock phrase with something that is an entirely different concept.
- jmadsen 11y ago
  If I may extend my own post for a moment, this is a common problem of trying to translate words & phrases directly. For example, most people know that "Arigato" is Japanese for "Thank you". Except that's really wrong. Arigato is inappropriate in most cases, and "Sumasen" or variations should be used. But if you tried to translate them via the dictionary, you'd be quite confused as arigato comes from "thank" and su(mi)masen from "to finish". You can't just say "This equals this" when you work in another language or culture. You have to learn the native meaning itself.
  - cactusface 11y ago
    Wait a minute, sumimasen only means thank-you when it's a thanks plus a kind of apology for making someone go to some trouble. Some version of doumo arigato gozaimasu is really fine in most other situations! http://www.tofugu.com/2013/10/24/sorry-for-saying-thank-you-the-many-uses-of-sumimasen/ http://www.tofugu.com/2013/10/24/sorry-for-saying-thank-you-... http://www.livinglanguage.com/blog/2013/06/20/how-to-say-thank-you-in-japanese-the-9-expressions-you-need/ http://www.livinglanguage.com/blog/2013/06/20/how-to-say-tha...
    - jmadsen 11y ago
      EDIT: after reading the post above, I'd like to add that there may even be regional differences with all of this, so let me state this is based on my own experience. No, not really IMHO - much more complicated. The first article (I only skimmed) seemed pretty good, the second was prolly a Japanese person trying to codify it :-) Here's a foreigner's attempt to explain them, based on how I use them (and I'm focusing on "thank you", not all the other meanings): "su(mi)masen" means literally "it isn't finished" - meaning, I feel the need to repay you. "Arigato" is more literally "thank you", but is more of a "ending, cutting off" feeling. Neither is more polite than the other, just used in different circumstances. Which makes it terribly nuanced. On the street, in the shops, normal life: "sumasen", which ends up being a lot like "thanks" that we are originally discussing. Why not "arigato"? I think because it would sound really abrupt, cut off ("curt" often used in literature). Family member passes the salt - "arigato". No need to make a fuss, just a "thanks" Someone close to the family has given you a gift, done something special: "Arigato gozaimasu!" (with 20 or more little sumasens thrown in) - I couldn't possibly return such a special effort (even though I'll deliver a returning gift to your house tomorrow) so it would be insulting to imply I'm going to. You get the idea of how nuanced and confusing it can be. You just have to learn it naturally, I think.
ekianjo 11y ago
I don't understand the big insight that's supposed to be in this article. About every country uses "thank you" in a different way. Like what, they discovered cultural differences?
mythealias 11y ago
Similar to the cultural difference when Russians do not smile [1]. [1]: http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/ http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/
dudul 11y ago
“Thank you for coming to my home” actually meant, “It’s time for you to get out of my house.” Seriously? Find new friends. When I thank people after hosting an event I do mean to thank them for choosing to spend their time with me. I feel like this post is blently dishonest and caricaturing just to tell a nice story.
- jpatokal 11y ago
  I think you're reading a bit too much into that. If you're at a social event, when do you hear "Thank you so much for coming" from the host? Usually when you're leaving, or as the writer says, when it's time for you to leave.
  - dudul 11y ago
    But usually the host won't say that until the guests have made it clear that they are on their way out. - "Honey, we should probably go" - "Well, thank you both for coming" I have never attended a social event where the host would say "thank you for coming, see you soon" out of the blue.
fredley 11y ago
Taught this kind of stuff in India for a while for a company providing phone support. It's not just "thank you", it's also "please" and "sorry" - both are considered rude/inappropriate outside of certain settings. There's a huge difference in etiquette that is a cause of frustration on phone calls (particularly for support). Both sides are (usually) trying to be polite, but perceive the other side as being very rude. This is one of the main reasons (of about a half a dozen) that cause support calls to go sour.
StavrosK 11y ago
In Greece, saying "please" can sound condescending. You pretty much want to avoid saying please, and politeness comes from the phrasing. "Can you bring me a glass of water" is the polite version of "bring me a glass of water", although the latter is also usually made polite by adding "re" (to friends) or adding "a bit" ("bring me a glass of water for a bit", it doesn't translate well). Saying "please" to anyone you're even slightly familiar with would be at least weird, and in many cases condescending and offputting. "Thanks" is somewhere between the US and India, where you don't thank everyone all the time, but do thank people who've done you a favor, or in service settings, people who have been good to you (good servers/shopkeepers/etc).
- harperlee 11y ago
  In spain we have a mix of both; although it is very normal to say it formulaically to e.g. a shop clerk, we are also very often very direct and don't use it, just using tone or phrasing - and foreigners (including spanish-speaking ones) are usually shocked by how rude we seem to be.
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    I've found that Greek translates pretty much exactly to Spanish (culturally and linguistically), so I just say "puedes traerme <x>" or, at most, "quisiera un <x>".
asgard1024 11y ago
This reminds of what David Graeber said about debt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs He mentions that historically, cultures tried to keep people indebted to each other, and not settle the debt as is in fashion now. The reason was to keep people doing favors to each other.
makeitsuckless 11y ago
Although not as extreme as in this example, the American custom of saying "thank you" and "please" all the time is considered excessive to the point of being insultingly trite by many cultures. And I regularly hear Americans complain about people from other cultures being impolite because they don't say "thank you" or "please" all the time. AFAIK in most cultures these kind of phrases are generally more formal and tend to signal a certain distance that in the wrong context can be interpreted as condescending.
darklajid 11y ago
Over here in Germany we even had an optional 'Cultural differences' workshop you could participate in, which discussed things - both for Germans and for people from the US, the presenter was from the US - that might seem awkward at first. The ~social fillwords~ were on the list. Lots of thank you / you're welcome plus the really irritating 'How are you?' variations. Wouldn't you find these differences between any culture though? Is Hindi/Indian vs. English/US especially surprising?
- toothbrush 11y ago
  > Lots of ... irritating 'How are you?' variations. Pity that. I frequently ask people "how are you" at the beginning of a conversation, and it's very often ignored on the assumption that i'm using a formula, but i am usually genuinely curious ask to what's up, trying to get them to say something about themselves since the last time we spoke. Pity this idiom has suffered inflation, perhaps i should think of another to replace it.
  - Retra 11y ago
    I hate it when people ask "how are you." Because I don't want to drop whatever I'm thinking about and start thinking about what you've asked, which is something that doesn't require any urgent attention. It's like asking someone to retie their shoes every time you talk to them. So you'll get "I'm fine" because the question is meant to be dismissed quickly, not dwelled upon.
codeN 11y ago
Come to think of it, in India I have almost never really "thanked" many among my family, but have done it for almost everybody else, and often I have found a compliment works in places where a thanks might seem too formal. Saying "I had an amazing time at your place and will miss the food" carries the sense of gratitude without the sense of formality in India.
nitred 11y ago
I'm from India and I completely get what the author is saying, but why is this article on 'Hacker News'?
- saiprashanth93 11y ago
  Hacker News, in spite of the name which implies only content related to programming does have article does are appealing to sensible and curious souls.
DanAndersen 11y ago
When I was an English teacher in China, I noticed something similar. Saying "thank you" to friends I made there resulted in a look of confusion, being taken aback, and not quite knowing how to respond. Over time I noticed a pattern and concluded that the interpretation was that friends shouldn't need to say thanks to each other, and saying it turned interaction into something more formal and less friendly.
littletimmy 11y ago
As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his parents wealth is his also, and later willingly contribute his earnings when his parents need anything. It is a difference in the degree to which individualism is the norm. Reminds of the book "Debt" by David Graeber. He talks about how many cultures have systems where everyone is indebted to their family and community, and this debt is never to be settled. To want to settle a debt (or to even calculate it) would indicate that a relationship has ended. So it is a huge culture shock to see the degree to which calculation plays a part in US relationships (like Sheryl Sandberg precisely splitting domestic chores with her husband 50:50). I have a feeling that the non-American system is better because it fosters closer family ties, but that might just be because that's the system I'm familiar with.
- seraph787 11y ago
  Better for what? If you mean family sure. If you mean for shared burden probably not.
- bane 11y ago
  I think this is an interesting idea. Cultures are often categorized as "individualistic" or "shame-based"...but I wonder if "debt-based" might be a good descriptor for many cultures. There's definitely a range of individualism in the U.S. as well, some people take it to a kind of local maximum, some people just try to find workable balances. When my wife first immigrated here from South Korea, she struggled to characterize "America" in simple, digestible differences so that she could work within the society. No a couple decades later, she's developed a more nuanced view, and understands that it's very hard to say "Americans do x" without going into a higher level of abstraction like "some Americans do x" when explaining something to her friends.
- klodolph 11y ago
  You may be reading a lot of value into this distinction. To me, as an American, equality in a peer relationship is important but bookkeeping and debt is destructive. The 50:50 split is just an ongoing division of labor, it is explicitly NOT debt because it never accumulates. Any "thank you" is an acknowledgment of gratitude or merely a polite exit to a conversation one doesn't want to continue. The debt that children have to their parents is to be paid to the next generation. It's another one of those cultural quirks that seems more telling than it actually is. For example, because Russians don't smile to strangers, they're cold and unfriendly. Or because Americans do smile to strangers, we're untrustworthy and insincere. The reason we think it's so big is because we're translating the literal contents (smile, "thank you") but ending up with a completely different meaning or set of pragmatics. and then we miss the ability to use set phrases in our native language. Just like you can say "pleased to meet you" in Enhlish, but you can't say "よろしくお願いします". Edit: to clarify, cultures are different and language reflects that, but I think a lot of set phrases reflect history more than they reflect living culture.
z02d 11y ago
I asked some friends from Indian (Jaipur, Pune, Delhi) and they do not confirm this.
- saiprashanth93 11y ago
  It is not exactly a hard and fast rule, its more like a behavioral pattern where you don't thank the people you are really close to for little things. If you say it, you generally say it like you mean it and not for everyday things.
- nashashmi 11y ago
  Maybe because he did not explain it simply and purely. You do not "thank" people who are close to you; helping and favors should simply be a common practice. "Thank you" is said to people who you cannot return the favor to, or do not expect them from them any sort of kindness.
- theandrewbailey 11y ago
  India has dozens (hundreds?) of constituent cultures.
- sumedh 11y ago
  Indian here, maybe they are very rich who live by different rules. The majority of India will agree with the article.
mtmr 11y ago
This is not specific to Hindi speaking people. Even here in South India, Saying you Thank you is usually considered an insult as mentioned in the article.
mtmr 11y ago
This is not specific to Hindi speaking people. Even here in South India, Saying you Thank you is usually considered an insult as mentioned in the article.
chatwinra 11y ago
As an English speaker, I agree with others above that this article misses a huge point about our language. Yes we use thank you a lot, even for some things people may consider 'trite'. I'm from the UK so I use it a HELL of a lot. But I want to call out 2 points based on this: 1. As mentioned above, just thanking someone can turn their day around, and most times I feel rude if I do not say it (that is my cultural upbringing). 2. For me/the English culture, it is a multi-faceted word. It can be used in everyday scenarios, or it can be used in deeply emotional ones. The article doesn't seem to acknowledge this, so perhaps the OP hasn't truly grasped the intricacies of the language. As an aside, I did find the information about the attitude towards 'thanks' in Hindi really interesting. Thanks!* *sorry, couldn't resist. ;)
- haphazardeous 11y ago
  Are you being slightly passive-aggressive? That's what I understand if I see "Thanks" instead of "Many thanks!"
  - joshyeager 11y ago
    You see "Thanks" as passive-aggressive? To me it reads as a very straightforward statement that communicates a moderate level of real gratitude.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - Crito 11y ago
    > "That's what I understand if I see "Thanks" instead of "Many thanks!"" That probably says more about you, or the particular dialect of your region, than him. "Many thanks" is not the predominate phrase for expressing thanks anywhere in that I have been in the continental US. "Thanks" is only passive aggressive when in a context that makes that clear. It is most often used sincerely. That word alone is never "the tell" for insincerity; something else about the situation is.
notNow 11y ago
My two cents: Usually, acting very polite and formal in informal settings could send the wrong message to people around you from certain cultures as it would be interpreted as the speaker establishing barriers between him/her and the rest and that he/she views them as strangers not as friends which is totally off-putting. The problem manifests actually in formal settings where some cultures don't have these "lubricants" such as "thanks, please ..etc" in place to ease everyday situations. So, when you expect a simple "thank you" like for helping someone on the street as a small gesture of gratitude towards you and you don't get it, you don't really know exactly if they're being deliberately rude to you and sending their message very clear or they're just being "natural" and "easygoing" i.e. being themselves. You can't really tell and it's just a reckless form of gambling to take offense at their acts. So, I just give them the benefit of the doubt and assume no malice intended. Lastly and I speak only from my observations and experiences, some Indians are "obtuse" for the lack of a better word and it seems that most of the social cues that you expect to be interpreted very easily by everyone are completely lost on them but from what I understand now, these people usually come from rural areas and lower socio-economic backgrounds. So, you basically should not really put too much thought into their processes. That's how they've been raised and therefore are products of their environment. Just move on!
chrisBob 11y ago
In the military you will often hear "Don't thank me. The government thanks me twice a month." So there are parts of american culture where these pleasantries are less common.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Twice a month? I assume that's the paycheck, but seems like a weird schedule.
  - chrisBob 11y ago
    I think the standard was to be paid on the 1st and the 15th, but you could opt for one monthly pay check if you had trouble saving for rent with the twice a month schedule. I never really thought about it. Are weekly or monthly that much more common?
    - dagw 11y ago
      Certainly in Norway and Sweden I've never even heard of anybody being paid on any other schedule than once a month (normally on the 25th). Until right now it never really crossed my mind that people with 'regular' jobs would get paid any other way.
      - learnstats2 11y ago
        This is quite problematic in the UK. It's common to get your first paycheck ~6 weeks after starting a job, and then always one month in arrears. I've noticed that employers like to offer bridging "loans" to appear kind and generous, but then this identifies cash-poor employees who are set up for unfair treatment later. Your employer is struggling to make payroll and can't pay you? You won't find out until you've worked out the whole month. This situation is not right. I'm surprised to learn that the US has more a employee-friendly practice in this sense.
    - icebraining 11y ago
      I'm not from the US, and I've never heard of anyone paid biweekly, that's why I found it weird. According to the US Bureau of Labour Statistics, it's actually the most common schedule over there: http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/how-frequently-do-private-businesses-pay-workers.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/how-frequently-do-priva...
notNow 11y ago
Just to add something, in our culture Egyptian that is, we mostly behave and act like Americans when it comes to these forms of courtesy. We expect people to exchange (Shukran: Thanks), (Afwan: Welcome), (Lao samahet: please) and so on and so forth in these situations and the lack of them in certain contexts could be interpreted by some folks in certain cases as rudeness and hostility shown toward them. However, we don't take it to the extreme like Americans would usually do and just insert these courteous words in every sentence or interaction as it might be interpreted as a form of snobbery (distancing yourself from people around you) or fake politeness which is not very tasteful. Anyway, I just got used to the American way when I'm around Americans and honestly if it were to me, I would take excessive courtesy over the lack thereof or plain rudeness any given day but that's just me.
kalari 11y ago
India is a more hierarchical society in general, and one doesn't feel the need to thank the servile class for services rendered. Outside family and close circle of friends, a "thank you" can lubricate social interactions.
tcfunk 11y ago
Something I haven't seen anyone bring up is the way that "thank you" or "sorry" are delivered. I'm not familiar enough with other languages to know if they have similar variances in speech, but in english you can very much change the meaning of your message with the tone of your voice or your rate of speech. Nearly any phrase can come off as condescending given the right delivery.
- abandonliberty 11y ago
  Thank you so much for raising that point. I've spoken English since childhood and I've still gotten it wrong. So awkward. "No, wait, that sounded sarcastic. I really meant it! Ok, that didn't sound any better. Let me start over."
  - mannkind 11y ago
    > Thank you so much for raising that point. That seems a bit sarcastic ... ;)
fareesh 11y ago
I think it's important to point out that India is very culturally diverse. I have lived in Mumbai for 22 years, and Canada for 8 years. I have said "thank you" to people all my life. I do it consciously and sincerely - cashiers, rickshaw drivers, waiters, friends, peers, everybody. I don't think I've ever offended anybody - at least not that I know of. With regard to family - neither of my parents' respective families are overtly religious, and neither of them have Hindu or Muslim ancestries. We say thank you to one another all the time. In fact, I can't relate to what the author is saying at all! In the spirit of sharing/learning about new cultures, here's hoping that the 7% of us (7 million people) aren't painted with this broad brush.
- frandroid 11y ago
  Who is this 7 million people?
  - fareesh 11y ago
    Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains and "Others" - since my cultural background is a combination of some of those, I'm fairly confident that the author's perspective does not reflect my community, and likely some of the other minority communities, of which India has 7 million people.
    - adiM 11y ago
      And even Hindus. I grew up in North India and I was taught to say thank you to friends and even to family members e.g., say thank you after being offered snacks (what would be called hors d'oeuvres in the west), offered a chapati or additional daal or sabji during meals, etc. I did not say thank you to bus or cab drivers, but often did say thank you to shopkeepers.
      - fareesh 11y ago
        Yes - just to clarify, my intent was to merely hypothesize at the idea that perhaps people ought to proceed with caution whenever some sort of behavior is categorized/stereotyped as "Indian", since in the case of India, even a minority is a very significant number of people.
bitwize 11y ago
In America we are conditioned with a moral duty to be appreciative for what we have and how fortunate we are. It probably stems from the religious nature of some of the early colonies, which religion was Calvinist in nature and big on divine providence, and how it is only by the whim of God that you have a roof over your head, food on the table, a supportive family, etc. We set aside an entire day -- Thanksgiving -- for expressing gratitude and in practical terms that's stretched over a four-day weekend.
bgilroy26 11y ago
It looks like "shukriyaa" (शुक्रिया) is a way of saying 'thanks' in situations where formality is inappropriate. Can anyone confirm/deny? http://wikihow.com/Say-Thank-You-in-Hindi http://wikihow.com/Say-Thank-You-in-Hindi
- sumedh 11y ago
  Well atleast in Metros even if you are speaking in Hindi, you usually say thank you instead of "shukriyaa". Pretty much everyone in Indian metro cities understands simple English words like Hi, Hello, OK, Bye, Thank you. Coming back to your question then yes "shukriyaa" can be used instead of "thanks". "shukriyaa" is less formal than "dhanyavaad"
pknerd 11y ago
Ok! So I was a fool felt happy seeing a "Thankyou" message after every transaction or signup :/ Well, thank you!
gdy 11y ago
It's about the same in Russia (well, as far as I can tell by looking at my friends and relatives), to the lesser degree perhaps, but the same.
dennisgorelik 11y ago
> “Thank you for coming to my home” actually meant, “It’s time for you to get out of my house.” That's a good observation.

162 points by darkroasted 11y ago

As an American, I've sometimes been bothered by the use of thank you. It is fine as a pleasantry at a restaurant. But it always felt odd coming from a boss or from the company CEO. I think to myself, "I didn't do this piece of work as a favor to you, I didn't because you are paying me and you told me to do it." It is interesting to read that this view is more common in other cultures. I also dislike putting "thank you" in an email, before they have agreed to do the favor or task. It feels very presumptuous. Am I crazy or do other people feel the same way.

ScottBurson 11y ago
I had a manager who made a practice of thanking people when they did things he had asked them to. I hadn't seen it done that assiduously before, and I rather got to like it. I try to do the same now, when appropriate. I agree, though, that pre-thanking someone before they've done what you ask is presumptuous.
- mgkimsal 11y ago
  That pre-thank may be meant as "thank you for your attention to this matter" vs "thank you for doing the work".
paulsutter 11y ago
Thanking is not used to acknowledge a favor, thanking expresses gratitude. It means your boss appreciates your effort, that he doesn't consider you a robot who does work solely for the money. Maybe he thinks you put a little bit of yourself into the work.
- seszett 11y ago
  > he doesn't consider you a robot who does work solely for the money. Looks like he might be wrong though.
zhte415 11y ago
The single best compliment I had from a senior manager after emailing the findings of quite an arduous 2-month project early in my career was a one word email: "Good." Put me on cloud nine. I think it depends on who's doing the talking. Saying thanks more bring inflation to the term, leading to making up more terms when we really mean thanks.
chrisra 11y ago
It's nice to find a higher purpose in your work. If you are paid $10 and work worth $15, you're giving of yourself for others. Work is such a big part of life, it is good to go the extra mile and serve others while you're there. Sure, you're paid for it, but your motivation can become "I'm doing this because I want my boss and the customer to have a better life."
ljak 11y ago
> a modern boss is tolerant, he behaves like a colleague of ours, sharing dirty jokes, inviting us for a drink, openly displaying his weaknesses, admitting that he is “merely human like us”. He is deeply offended if we remind him that he is our boss – however, it is this very rejection of explicit authority that guarantees his de facto power. > This is why the first gesture of liberation is to force the master to act as one: our only defence is to reject his “warm human” approach and to insist that he should treat us with cold distance. We live in weird times in which we are compelled to behave as if we are free, so that the unsayable is not our freedom but the very fact of our servitude. - Slavoj Žižek
MacsHeadroom 11y ago
Imagine the distance thanking someone for sex would put between you. Like the scenario you gave, it implies the other person was doing you a favor- which also implies the act wasn't totally genuine. I grew up in North America. But I rarely thank anyone. I think I've thanked people in a work setting maybe twice in my entire career- and only because the other party was doing me a favour.
Retra 11y ago
> I also dislike putting "thank you" in an email, before they have agreed to do the favor or task. It feels very presumptuous. You're thanking someone for taking the time to read your email, not for completing some other task. You can say "thank you for your time" or "thank you for your consideration" if that makes more sense.

bbgm 11y ago

This is partly in line with my experiences. It's more subtle than it comes across in the article. I've thanked servers, taxi drivers, and others, but don't recall thanking a bus driver. I have thanked my parents and they've never had issues. However, in general thanking elders is considered bad form, but asking them or appreciating their blessing isn't. Is that very different?

laex 11y ago
Interesting. It's quite common in Australia to thank the bus drivers.
- NeutronBoy 11y ago
  Yeah it might just be a habit, but I say thank-you to heaps of 'service' workers - just a simple 'Thanks mate' when I get off the bus, or get my coffee, etc. Why wouldn't you? I mean, I know it's their job, but you can still be polite about it.

msie 11y ago

As people say (more eloquently) in the comments, he's just wrong assuming that people in America say "Thank You" just to end a transaction. But it makes for a better narrative, doesn't it?

jonathonf 11y ago

In other news, different cultures are different.

hliyan 11y ago

There's a similar problem with my native language[1] and "sorry". The standard word, samaavenna literally means "forgive me". As a former British Colony (Sri Lanka) most of us have got used to the English words -- even non-English speakers will automatically say "sorry" or "thank you". But once "thank you" is said, most people awkwardly respond with "ah", because there's no phrase in the language for "you're welcome". Come to think of it, we don't even have a universal second person (a "you"). You need to know the social standing of the person before you can address him/her! [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhalese_language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhalese_language

linuxydave 11y ago
>But once "thank you" is said, most people awkwardly respond with "ah", because there's no phrase in the language for "you're welcome". In London I've noticed that instead of saying, "you're welcome" people prefer to say "no worries", which is far more casual. I don't know why that phrase started to be used but if I had to give a guess I'd say that it was out of awkwardness because there wasn't a less formal/personal response to use.
- hliyan 11y ago
  I've heard Australians say "no worries" (often with a trailing "mate") a lot. I always thought it originated there.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    As an Australian I can say that "no worries" is very common here (ocker). It has a bit of an ambiguous meaning as it implies that the person saying thank you didn't really need to, but at the same time it is a means of acknowledging that you recognise and appreciate the thank you.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- 11y ago

andrey-p 11y ago

I live in the UK, and whenever I travel back to Bulgaria, I get told off for saying "sorry" and "thank you" all the time. In Bulgarian, the word for "thank you" is "благодаря" ("blagodarya") but people often fall back to a simple "мерси" ("merci" - the French word, yes) for transactional thank-yous. I'm not really sure whether that's because "благодаря" is reserved for sincere, heartfelt thanksgiving or because the word is just too long to say very often.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- psykovsky 11y ago
  He wasn't saying merci is yes in french, he was saying that it is indeed the french word merci they use in Bulgaria.
- mrcarrot 11y ago
  I think the parent meant "Yes, we use the french word 'merci'", not that he thought 'merci' meant 'yes'.
bolaft 11y ago
> ("merci" - the French word, yes) Do you know why?
- vlasev 11y ago
  French had a large influence on Bulgarian. A lot of bulgarian words are borrowed from French.
vlasev 11y ago
I think it's mostly because it's so long and somewhat convoluted. "Благодаря" has 4 syllables while "мерси" only has 2. It's similar to saying "thanks" instead of "thank you" but that comparison is lost because the two words in Bulgarian are so different.
ajuc 11y ago

paulsutter 11y ago

I say thank you often, and every single time it's because I feel gratitude. This guy is doing it wrong. > After moving to America, it took me several years to say thanks to people without actually meaning it. Putting “thank you” on the tip of my tongue, ready to escape at a moment’s notice, rather than extracting it from the depths of my heart, was one of the hardest language lessons I had to learn in the United States.

ajuc 11y ago
You feel gratitude when you receive change from the shop clerk and say "thanks, bye"? I guess the word "gratitude" is routinely badly translated, too, in that case.
- learnstats2 11y ago
  > You feel gratitude when you receive change from the shop clerk and say "thanks, bye"? I know that many people are saying this robotically, but I personally feel genuinely grateful that the shop clerk has chosen to do this, and that they typically do a good job - providing me with a good level of service that greatly benefits me. I recognise that it is not a fun job and that clerks often have to suffer poor conditions and that if I had to do that job, I would be mind-numbed with boredom. So, I look the shop clerk in the eye and give my thanks fully and properly. It's obvious that it's appreciated and it's obvious that few other people are taking any time to genuinely thank shop clerks.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    It's obvious that it's appreciated Not around here, it isn't. I tried that three times, giving up after getting a mix of disinterest and hostility. Which frankly confirms my instincts, I only tried because I've learned not to assume that my preferences match the general public's.
    - learnstats2 11y ago
      While I show you respect for your effort, you could try it 3 times per day. If you feel genuinely grateful, I recommend that you try more. Some people don't appreciate it; some people think you are being ungenuine; some people don't notice or care; some people find it uncomfortable that you're choosing to break the social code; some people are confused by that. Yes, you're right. So what? Are you giving thanks because you want a service worker to validate you, or because you are grateful to the other person and you want to show your appreciation? I interact with many store clerks more than once and, on the second occasion, I want them to know clearly that I wasn't pretending when I gave thanks the first time. A majority appreciate it.

jmadsen 11y ago

Perhaps he doesn't understand that "thank you" is usually meant as a simple, polite acknowledgement. A heartfelt expression of gratitude in English is said not with a stock phrase, but by stopping, looking at the person, and explaining your gratitude to them. He is confusing our stock phrase with something that is an entirely different concept.

jmadsen 11y ago
If I may extend my own post for a moment, this is a common problem of trying to translate words & phrases directly. For example, most people know that "Arigato" is Japanese for "Thank you". Except that's really wrong. Arigato is inappropriate in most cases, and "Sumasen" or variations should be used. But if you tried to translate them via the dictionary, you'd be quite confused as arigato comes from "thank" and su(mi)masen from "to finish". You can't just say "This equals this" when you work in another language or culture. You have to learn the native meaning itself.
- cactusface 11y ago
  Wait a minute, sumimasen only means thank-you when it's a thanks plus a kind of apology for making someone go to some trouble. Some version of doumo arigato gozaimasu is really fine in most other situations! http://www.tofugu.com/2013/10/24/sorry-for-saying-thank-you-the-many-uses-of-sumimasen/ http://www.tofugu.com/2013/10/24/sorry-for-saying-thank-you-... http://www.livinglanguage.com/blog/2013/06/20/how-to-say-thank-you-in-japanese-the-9-expressions-you-need/ http://www.livinglanguage.com/blog/2013/06/20/how-to-say-tha...
  - jmadsen 11y ago
    EDIT: after reading the post above, I'd like to add that there may even be regional differences with all of this, so let me state this is based on my own experience. No, not really IMHO - much more complicated. The first article (I only skimmed) seemed pretty good, the second was prolly a Japanese person trying to codify it :-) Here's a foreigner's attempt to explain them, based on how I use them (and I'm focusing on "thank you", not all the other meanings): "su(mi)masen" means literally "it isn't finished" - meaning, I feel the need to repay you. "Arigato" is more literally "thank you", but is more of a "ending, cutting off" feeling. Neither is more polite than the other, just used in different circumstances. Which makes it terribly nuanced. On the street, in the shops, normal life: "sumasen", which ends up being a lot like "thanks" that we are originally discussing. Why not "arigato"? I think because it would sound really abrupt, cut off ("curt" often used in literature). Family member passes the salt - "arigato". No need to make a fuss, just a "thanks" Someone close to the family has given you a gift, done something special: "Arigato gozaimasu!" (with 20 or more little sumasens thrown in) - I couldn't possibly return such a special effort (even though I'll deliver a returning gift to your house tomorrow) so it would be insulting to imply I'm going to. You get the idea of how nuanced and confusing it can be. You just have to learn it naturally, I think.

ekianjo 11y ago

I don't understand the big insight that's supposed to be in this article. About every country uses "thank you" in a different way. Like what, they discovered cultural differences?

mythealias 11y ago

Similar to the cultural difference when Russians do not smile [1]. [1]: http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/ http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/

dudul 11y ago

“Thank you for coming to my home” actually meant, “It’s time for you to get out of my house.” Seriously? Find new friends. When I thank people after hosting an event I do mean to thank them for choosing to spend their time with me. I feel like this post is blently dishonest and caricaturing just to tell a nice story.

jpatokal 11y ago
I think you're reading a bit too much into that. If you're at a social event, when do you hear "Thank you so much for coming" from the host? Usually when you're leaving, or as the writer says, when it's time for you to leave.
- dudul 11y ago
  But usually the host won't say that until the guests have made it clear that they are on their way out. - "Honey, we should probably go" - "Well, thank you both for coming" I have never attended a social event where the host would say "thank you for coming, see you soon" out of the blue.

fredley 11y ago

Taught this kind of stuff in India for a while for a company providing phone support. It's not just "thank you", it's also "please" and "sorry" - both are considered rude/inappropriate outside of certain settings. There's a huge difference in etiquette that is a cause of frustration on phone calls (particularly for support). Both sides are (usually) trying to be polite, but perceive the other side as being very rude. This is one of the main reasons (of about a half a dozen) that cause support calls to go sour.

StavrosK 11y ago

In Greece, saying "please" can sound condescending. You pretty much want to avoid saying please, and politeness comes from the phrasing. "Can you bring me a glass of water" is the polite version of "bring me a glass of water", although the latter is also usually made polite by adding "re" (to friends) or adding "a bit" ("bring me a glass of water for a bit", it doesn't translate well). Saying "please" to anyone you're even slightly familiar with would be at least weird, and in many cases condescending and offputting. "Thanks" is somewhere between the US and India, where you don't thank everyone all the time, but do thank people who've done you a favor, or in service settings, people who have been good to you (good servers/shopkeepers/etc).

harperlee 11y ago
In spain we have a mix of both; although it is very normal to say it formulaically to e.g. a shop clerk, we are also very often very direct and don't use it, just using tone or phrasing - and foreigners (including spanish-speaking ones) are usually shocked by how rude we seem to be.
- StavrosK 11y ago
  I've found that Greek translates pretty much exactly to Spanish (culturally and linguistically), so I just say "puedes traerme <x>" or, at most, "quisiera un <x>".

asgard1024 11y ago

This reminds of what David Graeber said about debt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs He mentions that historically, cultures tried to keep people indebted to each other, and not settle the debt as is in fashion now. The reason was to keep people doing favors to each other.

makeitsuckless 11y ago

Although not as extreme as in this example, the American custom of saying "thank you" and "please" all the time is considered excessive to the point of being insultingly trite by many cultures. And I regularly hear Americans complain about people from other cultures being impolite because they don't say "thank you" or "please" all the time. AFAIK in most cultures these kind of phrases are generally more formal and tend to signal a certain distance that in the wrong context can be interpreted as condescending.

darklajid 11y ago

Over here in Germany we even had an optional 'Cultural differences' workshop you could participate in, which discussed things - both for Germans and for people from the US, the presenter was from the US - that might seem awkward at first. The ~social fillwords~ were on the list. Lots of thank you / you're welcome plus the really irritating 'How are you?' variations. Wouldn't you find these differences between any culture though? Is Hindi/Indian vs. English/US especially surprising?

toothbrush 11y ago
> Lots of ... irritating 'How are you?' variations. Pity that. I frequently ask people "how are you" at the beginning of a conversation, and it's very often ignored on the assumption that i'm using a formula, but i am usually genuinely curious ask to what's up, trying to get them to say something about themselves since the last time we spoke. Pity this idiom has suffered inflation, perhaps i should think of another to replace it.
- Retra 11y ago
  I hate it when people ask "how are you." Because I don't want to drop whatever I'm thinking about and start thinking about what you've asked, which is something that doesn't require any urgent attention. It's like asking someone to retie their shoes every time you talk to them. So you'll get "I'm fine" because the question is meant to be dismissed quickly, not dwelled upon.

codeN 11y ago

Come to think of it, in India I have almost never really "thanked" many among my family, but have done it for almost everybody else, and often I have found a compliment works in places where a thanks might seem too formal. Saying "I had an amazing time at your place and will miss the food" carries the sense of gratitude without the sense of formality in India.

nitred 11y ago

I'm from India and I completely get what the author is saying, but why is this article on 'Hacker News'?

saiprashanth93 11y ago
Hacker News, in spite of the name which implies only content related to programming does have article does are appealing to sensible and curious souls.

DanAndersen 11y ago

When I was an English teacher in China, I noticed something similar. Saying "thank you" to friends I made there resulted in a look of confusion, being taken aback, and not quite knowing how to respond. Over time I noticed a pattern and concluded that the interpretation was that friends shouldn't need to say thanks to each other, and saying it turned interaction into something more formal and less friendly.

littletimmy 11y ago

As a non-American, this was one of the biggest culture shocks I faced. On the surface, relationships in the US seem very transactional (not making the judgment that they are really transactional). For example, in the US a son would thank his parents for paying his college tuition. In my culture, this would be insulting because it would suggest being distant from family, in the sense that the son ought to believe his parents wealth is his also, and later willingly contribute his earnings when his parents need anything. It is a difference in the degree to which individualism is the norm. Reminds of the book "Debt" by David Graeber. He talks about how many cultures have systems where everyone is indebted to their family and community, and this debt is never to be settled. To want to settle a debt (or to even calculate it) would indicate that a relationship has ended. So it is a huge culture shock to see the degree to which calculation plays a part in US relationships (like Sheryl Sandberg precisely splitting domestic chores with her husband 50:50). I have a feeling that the non-American system is better because it fosters closer family ties, but that might just be because that's the system I'm familiar with.

seraph787 11y ago
Better for what? If you mean family sure. If you mean for shared burden probably not.
bane 11y ago
I think this is an interesting idea. Cultures are often categorized as "individualistic" or "shame-based"...but I wonder if "debt-based" might be a good descriptor for many cultures. There's definitely a range of individualism in the U.S. as well, some people take it to a kind of local maximum, some people just try to find workable balances. When my wife first immigrated here from South Korea, she struggled to characterize "America" in simple, digestible differences so that she could work within the society. No a couple decades later, she's developed a more nuanced view, and understands that it's very hard to say "Americans do x" without going into a higher level of abstraction like "some Americans do x" when explaining something to her friends.
klodolph 11y ago
You may be reading a lot of value into this distinction. To me, as an American, equality in a peer relationship is important but bookkeeping and debt is destructive. The 50:50 split is just an ongoing division of labor, it is explicitly NOT debt because it never accumulates. Any "thank you" is an acknowledgment of gratitude or merely a polite exit to a conversation one doesn't want to continue. The debt that children have to their parents is to be paid to the next generation. It's another one of those cultural quirks that seems more telling than it actually is. For example, because Russians don't smile to strangers, they're cold and unfriendly. Or because Americans do smile to strangers, we're untrustworthy and insincere. The reason we think it's so big is because we're translating the literal contents (smile, "thank you") but ending up with a completely different meaning or set of pragmatics. and then we miss the ability to use set phrases in our native language. Just like you can say "pleased to meet you" in Enhlish, but you can't say "よろしくお願いします". Edit: to clarify, cultures are different and language reflects that, but I think a lot of set phrases reflect history more than they reflect living culture.

z02d 11y ago

I asked some friends from Indian (Jaipur, Pune, Delhi) and they do not confirm this.

saiprashanth93 11y ago
It is not exactly a hard and fast rule, its more like a behavioral pattern where you don't thank the people you are really close to for little things. If you say it, you generally say it like you mean it and not for everyday things.
nashashmi 11y ago
Maybe because he did not explain it simply and purely. You do not "thank" people who are close to you; helping and favors should simply be a common practice. "Thank you" is said to people who you cannot return the favor to, or do not expect them from them any sort of kindness.
theandrewbailey 11y ago
India has dozens (hundreds?) of constituent cultures.
sumedh 11y ago
Indian here, maybe they are very rich who live by different rules. The majority of India will agree with the article.

mtmr 11y ago

This is not specific to Hindi speaking people. Even here in South India, Saying you Thank you is usually considered an insult as mentioned in the article.

mtmr 11y ago

This is not specific to Hindi speaking people. Even here in South India, Saying you Thank you is usually considered an insult as mentioned in the article.

chatwinra 11y ago

As an English speaker, I agree with others above that this article misses a huge point about our language. Yes we use thank you a lot, even for some things people may consider 'trite'. I'm from the UK so I use it a HELL of a lot. But I want to call out 2 points based on this: 1. As mentioned above, just thanking someone can turn their day around, and most times I feel rude if I do not say it (that is my cultural upbringing). 2. For me/the English culture, it is a multi-faceted word. It can be used in everyday scenarios, or it can be used in deeply emotional ones. The article doesn't seem to acknowledge this, so perhaps the OP hasn't truly grasped the intricacies of the language. As an aside, I did find the information about the attitude towards 'thanks' in Hindi really interesting. Thanks!* *sorry, couldn't resist. ;)

haphazardeous 11y ago
Are you being slightly passive-aggressive? That's what I understand if I see "Thanks" instead of "Many thanks!"
- joshyeager 11y ago
  You see "Thanks" as passive-aggressive? To me it reads as a very straightforward statement that communicates a moderate level of real gratitude.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- Crito 11y ago
  > "That's what I understand if I see "Thanks" instead of "Many thanks!"" That probably says more about you, or the particular dialect of your region, than him. "Many thanks" is not the predominate phrase for expressing thanks anywhere in that I have been in the continental US. "Thanks" is only passive aggressive when in a context that makes that clear. It is most often used sincerely. That word alone is never "the tell" for insincerity; something else about the situation is.

notNow 11y ago

My two cents: Usually, acting very polite and formal in informal settings could send the wrong message to people around you from certain cultures as it would be interpreted as the speaker establishing barriers between him/her and the rest and that he/she views them as strangers not as friends which is totally off-putting. The problem manifests actually in formal settings where some cultures don't have these "lubricants" such as "thanks, please ..etc" in place to ease everyday situations. So, when you expect a simple "thank you" like for helping someone on the street as a small gesture of gratitude towards you and you don't get it, you don't really know exactly if they're being deliberately rude to you and sending their message very clear or they're just being "natural" and "easygoing" i.e. being themselves. You can't really tell and it's just a reckless form of gambling to take offense at their acts. So, I just give them the benefit of the doubt and assume no malice intended. Lastly and I speak only from my observations and experiences, some Indians are "obtuse" for the lack of a better word and it seems that most of the social cues that you expect to be interpreted very easily by everyone are completely lost on them but from what I understand now, these people usually come from rural areas and lower socio-economic backgrounds. So, you basically should not really put too much thought into their processes. That's how they've been raised and therefore are products of their environment. Just move on!

chrisBob 11y ago

In the military you will often hear "Don't thank me. The government thanks me twice a month." So there are parts of american culture where these pleasantries are less common.

icebraining 11y ago
Twice a month? I assume that's the paycheck, but seems like a weird schedule.
- chrisBob 11y ago
  I think the standard was to be paid on the 1st and the 15th, but you could opt for one monthly pay check if you had trouble saving for rent with the twice a month schedule. I never really thought about it. Are weekly or monthly that much more common?
  - dagw 11y ago
    Certainly in Norway and Sweden I've never even heard of anybody being paid on any other schedule than once a month (normally on the 25th). Until right now it never really crossed my mind that people with 'regular' jobs would get paid any other way.
    - learnstats2 11y ago
      This is quite problematic in the UK. It's common to get your first paycheck ~6 weeks after starting a job, and then always one month in arrears. I've noticed that employers like to offer bridging "loans" to appear kind and generous, but then this identifies cash-poor employees who are set up for unfair treatment later. Your employer is struggling to make payroll and can't pay you? You won't find out until you've worked out the whole month. This situation is not right. I'm surprised to learn that the US has more a employee-friendly practice in this sense.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    I'm not from the US, and I've never heard of anyone paid biweekly, that's why I found it weird. According to the US Bureau of Labour Statistics, it's actually the most common schedule over there: http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/how-frequently-do-private-businesses-pay-workers.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/how-frequently-do-priva...

notNow 11y ago

Just to add something, in our culture Egyptian that is, we mostly behave and act like Americans when it comes to these forms of courtesy. We expect people to exchange (Shukran: Thanks), (Afwan: Welcome), (Lao samahet: please) and so on and so forth in these situations and the lack of them in certain contexts could be interpreted by some folks in certain cases as rudeness and hostility shown toward them. However, we don't take it to the extreme like Americans would usually do and just insert these courteous words in every sentence or interaction as it might be interpreted as a form of snobbery (distancing yourself from people around you) or fake politeness which is not very tasteful. Anyway, I just got used to the American way when I'm around Americans and honestly if it were to me, I would take excessive courtesy over the lack thereof or plain rudeness any given day but that's just me.

kalari 11y ago

India is a more hierarchical society in general, and one doesn't feel the need to thank the servile class for services rendered. Outside family and close circle of friends, a "thank you" can lubricate social interactions.

tcfunk 11y ago

Something I haven't seen anyone bring up is the way that "thank you" or "sorry" are delivered. I'm not familiar enough with other languages to know if they have similar variances in speech, but in english you can very much change the meaning of your message with the tone of your voice or your rate of speech. Nearly any phrase can come off as condescending given the right delivery.

abandonliberty 11y ago
Thank you so much for raising that point. I've spoken English since childhood and I've still gotten it wrong. So awkward. "No, wait, that sounded sarcastic. I really meant it! Ok, that didn't sound any better. Let me start over."
- mannkind 11y ago
  > Thank you so much for raising that point. That seems a bit sarcastic ... ;)

fareesh 11y ago

I think it's important to point out that India is very culturally diverse. I have lived in Mumbai for 22 years, and Canada for 8 years. I have said "thank you" to people all my life. I do it consciously and sincerely - cashiers, rickshaw drivers, waiters, friends, peers, everybody. I don't think I've ever offended anybody - at least not that I know of. With regard to family - neither of my parents' respective families are overtly religious, and neither of them have Hindu or Muslim ancestries. We say thank you to one another all the time. In fact, I can't relate to what the author is saying at all! In the spirit of sharing/learning about new cultures, here's hoping that the 7% of us (7 million people) aren't painted with this broad brush.

frandroid 11y ago
Who is this 7 million people?
- fareesh 11y ago
  Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains and "Others" - since my cultural background is a combination of some of those, I'm fairly confident that the author's perspective does not reflect my community, and likely some of the other minority communities, of which India has 7 million people.
  - adiM 11y ago
    And even Hindus. I grew up in North India and I was taught to say thank you to friends and even to family members e.g., say thank you after being offered snacks (what would be called hors d'oeuvres in the west), offered a chapati or additional daal or sabji during meals, etc. I did not say thank you to bus or cab drivers, but often did say thank you to shopkeepers.
    - fareesh 11y ago
      Yes - just to clarify, my intent was to merely hypothesize at the idea that perhaps people ought to proceed with caution whenever some sort of behavior is categorized/stereotyped as "Indian", since in the case of India, even a minority is a very significant number of people.

bitwize 11y ago

In America we are conditioned with a moral duty to be appreciative for what we have and how fortunate we are. It probably stems from the religious nature of some of the early colonies, which religion was Calvinist in nature and big on divine providence, and how it is only by the whim of God that you have a roof over your head, food on the table, a supportive family, etc. We set aside an entire day -- Thanksgiving -- for expressing gratitude and in practical terms that's stretched over a four-day weekend.

bgilroy26 11y ago

It looks like "shukriyaa" (शुक्रिया) is a way of saying 'thanks' in situations where formality is inappropriate. Can anyone confirm/deny? http://wikihow.com/Say-Thank-You-in-Hindi http://wikihow.com/Say-Thank-You-in-Hindi

sumedh 11y ago
Well atleast in Metros even if you are speaking in Hindi, you usually say thank you instead of "shukriyaa". Pretty much everyone in Indian metro cities understands simple English words like Hi, Hello, OK, Bye, Thank you. Coming back to your question then yes "shukriyaa" can be used instead of "thanks". "shukriyaa" is less formal than "dhanyavaad"

pknerd 11y ago

Ok! So I was a fool felt happy seeing a "Thankyou" message after every transaction or signup :/ Well, thank you!

gdy 11y ago

It's about the same in Russia (well, as far as I can tell by looking at my friends and relatives), to the lesser degree perhaps, but the same.

dennisgorelik 11y ago

> “Thank you for coming to my home” actually meant, “It’s time for you to get out of my house.” That's a good observation.