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> This is a colossal, market-moving play from Google. Is it that or is it just an effort to stay relevant? If you can get a laptop/tablet that can do the same

by TheTaO 11y ago

> This is a colossal, market-moving play from Google. Is it that or is it just an effort to stay relevant? If you can get a laptop/tablet that can do the same thing that this Chromebook does and has a full OS for a few bucks more, would you do it? There are tons of tablets from HP/Dell that cost 100-200$ and run full windows OS and have comparable specs to the Chromebooks. As far as I know they are selling quite well. I am wondering if this is Google responding to that pressure.

gcb0 11y ago
exactly. in the US they also launched with the mobile association. leading them to be mostly ignored by everyone. the only time i heard about chromebooks in the wild was while walking at low income are shopping malls. the Cricket and att stores would often have a little banner on the floor advertising the "cheap kinda of a computer!"
- chetanahuja 11y ago
  "ignored by everyone" Heh... wonder what your definition of "everyone" is. Another comment posted above points to data that chromebooks are forming 14% of PC sales in the US. From my personal experience, the local highschool and middle school where I live have basically mandated that each student buy a chromebook -- they don't say chromebook exactly but heavily, strongly suggest it for the low price and maintenance factors. 90+% of the students are carrying around lightweight chromebooks in their backpacks now.
Mikeb85 11y ago
Chromebook sales are constantly rising. With the eventual capability that they'll be able to run Android programs, as well as PNaCl and Emscripten borrowing from each other and getting better offering opportunity for tons of apps to be ported to the web, and then of course HTML5 and Js becoming the technology of choice for all sorts of apps, Chromebooks are the eventual future. Maybe they're not the present, but they ARE the future. And this is the main thing - for millions (hundreds of millions, maybe billions soon), a smartphone is their first entry to the internet. Probably an Android. When they see the Chrome logo in a laptop they can afford, and they already like the Android/Chrome ecosystem, they'll buy it, versus Windows which is associated with viruses, scams, piracy, etc... Keep in mind Googles current business is still search. The net they're casting has nothing to do with the present, they're gunning for 7 billion people to associate them with computing, and to create the new future of computing. Go to the third world. Yes some families have cheap PCs running pirated XP, but every kid has a cheap smartphone that they can connect to the internet with. They all have Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, etc...
- ntakasaki 11y ago
  >Chromebook sales are constantly rising Where are the real shipping numbers from Google then? Surely they must know the numbers? Why won't they release it then? The only reason I can think of could be that they aren't all that great.
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    You do realise that Asus, Lenovo, HP, etc... sell Chromebooks, right? Google sells very few branded as a 'Google' product. The numbers are out there, but Google isn't releasing numbers because they're a tiny vendor.
    - ntakasaki 11y ago
      You mean Google does not know exactly how many Chromebooks are being sold by Asus, Lenovo, HP, etc?
      - jhall1468 11y ago
        No. Why would they? You think Asus, Lenovo and HP are giving sales data to Google?
        jeromegv 11y ago
        They do know about Android activations, it's not so far fetched.
        robotresearcher 11y ago
        All the Chromebooks phone home regularly checking for updates, etc. Google knows exactly how many have been used and are in use now.
      - Mikeb85 11y ago
        They probably do, but all those are public companies. They all report sales a certain way. Google isn't going to mess with reporting sales that other companies are making. That's irresponsible.
VikingCoder 11y ago
> If you can get a laptop/tablet that can do the same thing that this Chromebook does That's not remotely true. When my grandparents and parents ask me what computer they should get, or my in-laws ask what they should get their kids, I'm going to seriously consider Chromebooks. If they need to run Office, or Minecraft, clearly it's not a fit. But for the tweeting / facebooking / gmailing universe, a Chromebook is a very nice box. And the number of zero-day exploits, viruses, keyboard loggers is way smaller for a Chrome OS machine. And the update process is a painless reboot. And I'm not helping them try to read data off of a dead hard drive (because it's in the cloud.) And if they want a second or a third, all of their data is visible on all of them. And the battery is great, the wifi works great, the build quality is great. Get them hooked up with two-factor protection, and their accounts and data are pretty well protected. You're viewing the Chrome OS machines and their competitors, from a tech-savvy super-user standpoint. Many people don't need, don't want, and are hindered by that flexibility and power. The maintenance cost on a "full OS" is higher than the maintenance cost on a Chrome OS. Period.
- Tloewald 11y ago
  One of the problems I run into when recommending Chromebooks (I tried to convince my 75 year old mother, for example) is that almost every user turns out to have a need for something you can't do on a Chromebook. It ends up being a 90% solution for 90% of people, rather than a 100% solution for 80% of the people.
  - VikingCoder 11y ago
    What was she trying to do? For me, it's the camera-printer link that keeps messing me up.
    - wstrange 11y ago
      A google cloud print enabled printer solves the printing issue.
      - 11y ago
ntakasaki 11y ago
It's sad to see folks celebrating computing devices that are more extremely locked down than even the iDevices. A Windows PC/laptop is much more open than a Chromebook. Can Mozilla even make a Firefox browser for ChromeOS? Only Google can make system and native apps, unlike the iDevices where you can access most of the native functionality even if you have to go through Apple's approval and you're not forced to upload all your information into Google's cloud with paltry local storage like 64GB on even a 1500 dollar machine where the information is mined by Google and is accessible to various parties like the Government. They now even track which retail stores people visit using their Android phones or iPhones. http://digiday.com/platforms/google-tracking/ http://digiday.com/platforms/google-tracking/ Looks like user and developer freedom are a big concern only when Apple or Microsoft infringe it(even though Win32 is much more open than ChromeOS, after all Google exploited it with the Chrome browser and bundling it with Flash and Java updates), but Google gets a free pass to lock everything down and still call itself open.
- Sargos 11y ago
  You can't release Firefox for an iDevice either as Apple does not allow native code that you need for Gecko so they are about equal in ability to run system apps front. Chromebooks also run Android apps so in the near future there will be a lot more flexibility in what kinds of either web apps or Android apps you can develop. Firefox already runs on Android and presumably will be available for Chrome OS within this year.
  - Tloewald 11y ago
    Sure Apple allows native code. Apple doesn't allow third-party interpreters/compilers if they can run code from untrusted sources (Codea and some Python environments get around it by only running locally written code).
  - amyjess 11y ago
    Apple allows native code. What they don't allow is the use of any other rendering engine besides WebKit.
nevir 11y ago
I don't think having a "full OS" factors very much into the decision process for someone considering this kind of device.
- TheTaO 11y ago
  Not phrased that way but phrasedmore like: why can't I run skype on this? Or why can't I use this while on plane and so on
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    Why no Skype? Because the owner of Skype doesn't feel like supporting that. That may make these devices unsuitable for you, but consider that this same owner may want to consider dropping service for you on your other devices, too. (The ubiquitous presence of an ISA/OS pair is a historical anomaly, and I believe it's on the way out) You can't log in to a Chromebook for the first time while on a plane. After initialization, for example the Google Docs suite works pretty well with no connection - and so could any other web app that doesn't rely on connectivity for its base operation: eg. Skype on Windows on a plane will work just as bad as Hangouts on Chrome OS on a plane.
eertami 11y ago
> If you can get a laptop/tablet that can do the same thing that this Chromebook does and has a full OS for a few bucks more, would you do it? Are there really any sub-200$ Windows laptops that have 10 hour battery life on an 8 second boot? I find that pretty hard to believe. Maybe they have similarly specced components but the experience will be much worse.
- aikah 11y ago
  > 10 hour battery life on an 8 second boot? 8 second boot ,frankly who cares ? my windows machine takes 40 second to boot sure, but I boot it like 2 times a week. 10 hour battery life ? maybe on idle, I bet this thing doesn't last 10 hours with 50 tabs opened or when playing youtube videos ... I can't believe there are still people defending that stuff, it's netbooks all over again but worse cause it's only a browser ... Or we are on full astroturfing mode like anytime there is a Chromebook thread on HN i'm not sure.
  - nl 11y ago
    10 hour battery life ? maybe on idle, I bet this thing doesn't last 10 hours with 50 tabs opened or when playing youtube videos ... You are right - it's probably more like 8 hours. The older Acer c720 got between 6 and 7 hours streaming Netflix[1]. The Chromebook 13 got 10 hours[2]. [1] http://www.trustedreviews.com/acer-c720-chromebook-review-battery-life-and-verdict-page-3 http://www.trustedreviews.com/acer-c720-chromebook-review-ba... [2] http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/23/acer-chromebook-13-review/ http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/23/acer-chromebook-13-review...
    - jiffytick 11y ago
      Those numbers are with hardware decoding, aren't they. I'd be more intrested in something compute-intensive that was compiled to asm.js. I bet they'll last much less. That said, these are machines with mobile processors and an OS that is tailored for mobiles. It isn't all that suprising that they are more capable than their normal counterparts.
tracker1 11y ago
For my mom/grandmother/dad... They're all using chromebooks... not for the reduced cost, but because the environment is more secure, and fits their needs. So the answer is maybe.
- lostlogin 11y ago
  Your grandmother picked a platform to be secure? Grandmothers these days...
  - tracker1 11y ago
    No, I did after the 3rd time I had to remotely remove crapware from my grandmother's computer... when the hdd died, I sent her a chromebook... my mom liked it so much, I gave her one too, and she got one for my dad. They all really like them. They simply work for what they wanted.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
foxylad 11y ago
I just bought a Chromebook for my parents-in-law, even though there were slightly cheaper Windows laptops. The reason? I'm off the hook for support. No malware issues, no backups, no nothing - worst case the thing lets out the magic smoke, you buy a new one and log in again. And that's why the education sector is flocking to these things. OK, the price is good, but when you factor in order of magnitude less support costs, it's a very compelling proposition.
tonyblundell 11y ago
No, it isn't just about the cost. If I had a choice between a £150 Chromebook and a £75 Windows laptop, I'd choose the Chromebook. Windows isn't an 'upgrade' to Chrome OS.

by TheTaO 11y ago

gcb0 11y ago

exactly. in the US they also launched with the mobile association. leading them to be mostly ignored by everyone. the only time i heard about chromebooks in the wild was while walking at low income are shopping malls. the Cricket and att stores would often have a little banner on the floor advertising the "cheap kinda of a computer!"

chetanahuja 11y ago
"ignored by everyone" Heh... wonder what your definition of "everyone" is. Another comment posted above points to data that chromebooks are forming 14% of PC sales in the US. From my personal experience, the local highschool and middle school where I live have basically mandated that each student buy a chromebook -- they don't say chromebook exactly but heavily, strongly suggest it for the low price and maintenance factors. 90+% of the students are carrying around lightweight chromebooks in their backpacks now.

Mikeb85 11y ago

Chromebook sales are constantly rising. With the eventual capability that they'll be able to run Android programs, as well as PNaCl and Emscripten borrowing from each other and getting better offering opportunity for tons of apps to be ported to the web, and then of course HTML5 and Js becoming the technology of choice for all sorts of apps, Chromebooks are the eventual future. Maybe they're not the present, but they ARE the future. And this is the main thing - for millions (hundreds of millions, maybe billions soon), a smartphone is their first entry to the internet. Probably an Android. When they see the Chrome logo in a laptop they can afford, and they already like the Android/Chrome ecosystem, they'll buy it, versus Windows which is associated with viruses, scams, piracy, etc... Keep in mind Googles current business is still search. The net they're casting has nothing to do with the present, they're gunning for 7 billion people to associate them with computing, and to create the new future of computing. Go to the third world. Yes some families have cheap PCs running pirated XP, but every kid has a cheap smartphone that they can connect to the internet with. They all have Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, etc...

ntakasaki 11y ago
>Chromebook sales are constantly rising Where are the real shipping numbers from Google then? Surely they must know the numbers? Why won't they release it then? The only reason I can think of could be that they aren't all that great.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  You do realise that Asus, Lenovo, HP, etc... sell Chromebooks, right? Google sells very few branded as a 'Google' product. The numbers are out there, but Google isn't releasing numbers because they're a tiny vendor.
  - ntakasaki 11y ago
    You mean Google does not know exactly how many Chromebooks are being sold by Asus, Lenovo, HP, etc?
    - jhall1468 11y ago
      No. Why would they? You think Asus, Lenovo and HP are giving sales data to Google?
      - jeromegv 11y ago
        They do know about Android activations, it's not so far fetched.
      - robotresearcher 11y ago
        All the Chromebooks phone home regularly checking for updates, etc. Google knows exactly how many have been used and are in use now.
    - Mikeb85 11y ago
      They probably do, but all those are public companies. They all report sales a certain way. Google isn't going to mess with reporting sales that other companies are making. That's irresponsible.

VikingCoder 11y ago

> If you can get a laptop/tablet that can do the same thing that this Chromebook does That's not remotely true. When my grandparents and parents ask me what computer they should get, or my in-laws ask what they should get their kids, I'm going to seriously consider Chromebooks. If they need to run Office, or Minecraft, clearly it's not a fit. But for the tweeting / facebooking / gmailing universe, a Chromebook is a very nice box. And the number of zero-day exploits, viruses, keyboard loggers is way smaller for a Chrome OS machine. And the update process is a painless reboot. And I'm not helping them try to read data off of a dead hard drive (because it's in the cloud.) And if they want a second or a third, all of their data is visible on all of them. And the battery is great, the wifi works great, the build quality is great. Get them hooked up with two-factor protection, and their accounts and data are pretty well protected. You're viewing the Chrome OS machines and their competitors, from a tech-savvy super-user standpoint. Many people don't need, don't want, and are hindered by that flexibility and power. The maintenance cost on a "full OS" is higher than the maintenance cost on a Chrome OS. Period.

Tloewald 11y ago
One of the problems I run into when recommending Chromebooks (I tried to convince my 75 year old mother, for example) is that almost every user turns out to have a need for something you can't do on a Chromebook. It ends up being a 90% solution for 90% of people, rather than a 100% solution for 80% of the people.
- VikingCoder 11y ago
  What was she trying to do? For me, it's the camera-printer link that keeps messing me up.
  - wstrange 11y ago
    A google cloud print enabled printer solves the printing issue.
    - 11y ago

ntakasaki 11y ago

It's sad to see folks celebrating computing devices that are more extremely locked down than even the iDevices. A Windows PC/laptop is much more open than a Chromebook. Can Mozilla even make a Firefox browser for ChromeOS? Only Google can make system and native apps, unlike the iDevices where you can access most of the native functionality even if you have to go through Apple's approval and you're not forced to upload all your information into Google's cloud with paltry local storage like 64GB on even a 1500 dollar machine where the information is mined by Google and is accessible to various parties like the Government. They now even track which retail stores people visit using their Android phones or iPhones. http://digiday.com/platforms/google-tracking/ http://digiday.com/platforms/google-tracking/ Looks like user and developer freedom are a big concern only when Apple or Microsoft infringe it(even though Win32 is much more open than ChromeOS, after all Google exploited it with the Chrome browser and bundling it with Flash and Java updates), but Google gets a free pass to lock everything down and still call itself open.

Sargos 11y ago
You can't release Firefox for an iDevice either as Apple does not allow native code that you need for Gecko so they are about equal in ability to run system apps front. Chromebooks also run Android apps so in the near future there will be a lot more flexibility in what kinds of either web apps or Android apps you can develop. Firefox already runs on Android and presumably will be available for Chrome OS within this year.
- Tloewald 11y ago
  Sure Apple allows native code. Apple doesn't allow third-party interpreters/compilers if they can run code from untrusted sources (Codea and some Python environments get around it by only running locally written code).
- amyjess 11y ago
  Apple allows native code. What they don't allow is the use of any other rendering engine besides WebKit.

nevir 11y ago

I don't think having a "full OS" factors very much into the decision process for someone considering this kind of device.

TheTaO 11y ago
Not phrased that way but phrasedmore like: why can't I run skype on this? Or why can't I use this while on plane and so on
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  Why no Skype? Because the owner of Skype doesn't feel like supporting that. That may make these devices unsuitable for you, but consider that this same owner may want to consider dropping service for you on your other devices, too. (The ubiquitous presence of an ISA/OS pair is a historical anomaly, and I believe it's on the way out) You can't log in to a Chromebook for the first time while on a plane. After initialization, for example the Google Docs suite works pretty well with no connection - and so could any other web app that doesn't rely on connectivity for its base operation: eg. Skype on Windows on a plane will work just as bad as Hangouts on Chrome OS on a plane.

eertami 11y ago

> If you can get a laptop/tablet that can do the same thing that this Chromebook does and has a full OS for a few bucks more, would you do it? Are there really any sub-200$ Windows laptops that have 10 hour battery life on an 8 second boot? I find that pretty hard to believe. Maybe they have similarly specced components but the experience will be much worse.

aikah 11y ago
> 10 hour battery life on an 8 second boot? 8 second boot ,frankly who cares ? my windows machine takes 40 second to boot sure, but I boot it like 2 times a week. 10 hour battery life ? maybe on idle, I bet this thing doesn't last 10 hours with 50 tabs opened or when playing youtube videos ... I can't believe there are still people defending that stuff, it's netbooks all over again but worse cause it's only a browser ... Or we are on full astroturfing mode like anytime there is a Chromebook thread on HN i'm not sure.
- nl 11y ago
  10 hour battery life ? maybe on idle, I bet this thing doesn't last 10 hours with 50 tabs opened or when playing youtube videos ... You are right - it's probably more like 8 hours. The older Acer c720 got between 6 and 7 hours streaming Netflix[1]. The Chromebook 13 got 10 hours[2]. [1] http://www.trustedreviews.com/acer-c720-chromebook-review-battery-life-and-verdict-page-3 http://www.trustedreviews.com/acer-c720-chromebook-review-ba... [2] http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/23/acer-chromebook-13-review/ http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/23/acer-chromebook-13-review...
  - jiffytick 11y ago
    Those numbers are with hardware decoding, aren't they. I'd be more intrested in something compute-intensive that was compiled to asm.js. I bet they'll last much less. That said, these are machines with mobile processors and an OS that is tailored for mobiles. It isn't all that suprising that they are more capable than their normal counterparts.

tracker1 11y ago

For my mom/grandmother/dad... They're all using chromebooks... not for the reduced cost, but because the environment is more secure, and fits their needs. So the answer is maybe.

lostlogin 11y ago
Your grandmother picked a platform to be secure? Grandmothers these days...
- tracker1 11y ago
  No, I did after the 3rd time I had to remotely remove crapware from my grandmother's computer... when the hdd died, I sent her a chromebook... my mom liked it so much, I gave her one too, and she got one for my dad. They all really like them. They simply work for what they wanted.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

foxylad 11y ago

I just bought a Chromebook for my parents-in-law, even though there were slightly cheaper Windows laptops. The reason? I'm off the hook for support. No malware issues, no backups, no nothing - worst case the thing lets out the magic smoke, you buy a new one and log in again. And that's why the education sector is flocking to these things. OK, the price is good, but when you factor in order of magnitude less support costs, it's a very compelling proposition.

tonyblundell 11y ago

No, it isn't just about the cost. If I had a choice between a £150 Chromebook and a £75 Windows laptop, I'd choose the Chromebook. Windows isn't an 'upgrade' to Chrome OS.