6 ms·

By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

152 points by megaultra 12y ago

WhitneyLand 12y ago
Anyone tried anything like this, informally as described here or in a formal setting? I wonder how often it is successful.
- MatthiasP 12y ago
  Exposure to your fears is a pretty standard method out of the wide spectrum of cognitive-behavioural-therapy tools. Of course, preparation for that is the most important part of it. AFAIK, it works for about a third to half of the patients, depending on what measurement for success you apply.
pella 12y ago
old comments .. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5035438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5035438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1754790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1754790
mrbig4545 12y ago
what is it with gamifaction? I don't get it - it doesn't motivate me at all, infact it probably has the opposite effect.
- onion2k 12y ago
  People are motivated by different things. This guy was motivated by quantitative value tracking with defined goals ('scores', 'winning'). Some people's brains increase levels of serotonin in response to situations where they perceive they've done something good - you have a physical neural response to a psychological event. Other people's brains don't (or they release less serotonin, or there's serotonin uptake inhibitor at work somewhere). People like that doesn't feel 'good' in response to 'winning' so classical gamification doesn't work. The key to motivation is to make a psychological bridge between things that you don't want to do and the emotional state that releases neurological chemicals that in turn make you feel happy.
- copsarebastards 12y ago
  I doubt that. It's just that gamification requires you to buy into the premise of the game in the first place: to agree to try to maximize whatever "point" system the game scores you with. In some sense, income is a point system which you're almost certainly trying to maximize. Your comment reminds me of myself when I used to claim marketing doesn't work on me, and that it even made me less likely to buy things. And then found out about the brown bag effect (a marketing technique which uses drab colors and minimal text to look non-flashy). Gamification isn't as developed a science as marketing, but it still works pretty well, and it's very unlikely that it doesn't work on you.
pella 12y ago
video - 5 min "Mark Moschel - 30 Days of Rejection Therapy" Presented at the 2013 Quantified Self Conference http://vimeo.com/79453884 http://vimeo.com/79453884
phatfish 12y ago
If my wife had divorced me and i ended up a crying heap on the floor like this guy i would probably want to try this. Most people are not in that situation though, it's all relative. Fair play to him though.
- RankingMember 12y ago
  Fear of failure isn't something that only people who've been divorced and are crying heaps experience. If you've ever hesitated to ask a girl (or man) out, you know what this guy's talking about. I think this is a pretty novel approach to confronting that fear.
  - IndianAstronaut 12y ago
    I wouldn't say novel. This has been a standard method in the PUA community for ages.
- hessenwolf 12y ago
  Don't worry, dude. Give it time. Coming out of any multi-year relationship is normally a shock to the system. The wonderful whiff of want is the fiercest anti-pheromone. Also, a good tip, put a rug on the floor.
  - mod 12y ago
    This reads like greek to me, or like a Markov bot. I thought maybe it was a quote, but google has only indexed this page for "wonderful whiff of want." You coined a phrase, anyway!
    - hessenwolf 12y ago
      There's naught to do but converse, in a wee village in the West of Ireland. Gotta put a bit of colour in.
- pmelendez 12y ago
  I find this to be useful in other situations though, like asking +X% more of rise or in an interview, or asking for a better deal with your internet provider, or just a discount in an store.
SeanDav 12y ago
As a teenager I went to an all boys school, so was very shy with women. One day I just decided to get over my fear and resolved to ask for the telephone number of every pretty girl that caught my attention in public, even if they were with other girls. Importantly to the process was that it was never my intention to actually call the girl - just to see what percentage gave me their number. Since the outcome was not important, it did not matter if I was successful or not. It worked surprisngly well. I got over my fear and was quite amazed at my success rate. IIRC it was around 25%, maybe even higher. It was important to not be creepy, just friendly and withdraw if the situation became at all uncomfortable.
- brazzy 12y ago
  The question is how many of those 25% were fake numbers "just to get that creeper off my back". It's nice that you decided to "not be creepy", but it's not you who decides how your behaviour is judged.
  - thirdtruck 12y ago
    That's a bit (I admit not entirely) like saying that "Maybe all those free-throws you practiced between games didn't score us any actual points." 100% of the women he didn't ask did not give him his number. The exercise served the purpose of pushing him past the fear that would have otherwise paralyzed him during a real request.
    - semperfaux 12y ago
      Not really at all. The analogy is entirely wrong. Yes, the exercise anecdotally served the purpose of improving his confidence. But no, your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded and has nothing to do with your false analogy.
      - juliangoldsmith 12y ago
        >your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded Not if he has social anxiety.
xianshou 12y ago
I play Go and chess, and I think of it this way: the best players may have won more than others, but they have also lost more than others, because they have simply played more games. Frequent loss or rejection is a necessary step to goodness. This also applies to business, the opposite sex, and most anything else that might matter to you. Or, to paraphrase many an artist and CEO: if I have not failed today, it means I have not been ambitious enough.
- thirdtruck 12y ago
  I just finished Waitzkin's The Art of Learning, which discusses exactly that. He makes the point that (IIRC) Michael Jordan made more last-minute, game-winning throws than anyone else on his team, but he also missed the most game-losing ones. He only excelled by overreaching.
  - Disruptive_Dave 12y ago
    http://georgelugojr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/michael-jordan-quote-1.jpg http://georgelugojr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/michael-j...
    - thirdtruck 12y ago
      Thanks!
    - getsat 12y ago
      This was actually a Nike commercial, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc
- john_b 12y ago
  To quote Michael Jordan: "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." Willingness to fail is a precondition for learning and growth.
bitL 12y ago
He could accelerate his progress if he just did 50 cold calls to random strangers selling diapers a day - he would be super hardened after a week ;-)
- fenomas 12y ago
  Which raises an interesting question - do people with such jobs deal exceptionally well with rejection? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do, but then I wouldn't be if they were more than averagely depressed, either. Surely someone must have looked into this.
  - balabaster 12y ago
    I've worked with alongside cold-call sales people - not as a sales person myself. Largely, my observation of them wasn't that they're particularly thick skinned, nor were they particularly desensitized to rejection. The thing that most of them had in common was that they weren't emotionally bound to the outcome. They didn't care if the person said yes or no - except for the endorphin kick they got when they saw their pay cheque get bigger. For most of them, it was a game they played against each other - in the same way you might enjoy a board game and you strive to win, but the real fun is the camaraderie of the players. A rejection got a shoulder shrug and a "whatever, next" or a few choice curse words and the finger when the sales person wasted more time than necessary for a sale that never came before quickly moving on to the next call - the previous call forgotten as quickly as the next, unless the conversation was particularly humorous or worth sharing with their compatriots. Those with no scruples learned to manipulate people really well and got the sales by whatever means necessary. Those that cared got sales by listening to the customer and understanding the customer's needs. Mostly though, almost without exception, those with the most sales were those that got through the highest volume phone calls in a day. The success rate could be skewed to have a higher ratio of sales to calls, but at the end of the day, that took emotional effort and didn't really yield any extra benefit to the sales person - of course, this potentially had a huge negative affect on the reputation of the company. I see the same thing with all the utility companies. Their sales teams are often the first point of contact for a customer. But the sales guys don't care about that, all they care about are the numbers. The rest is for customer service to figure out. The lesson I learned from watching the sales guys in action is that all things considered equal, the greater the volume of calls, the greater your success. Don't be emotionally involved in the outcome before it's necessary to do so - at the end of the day, you're just asking her to come for coffee with you, you're not asking her to marry you. The more people you ask to go for coffee, the more chance you'll find someone that's got nothing better to do than go for coffee with you - even if you do think they're out of your league (that's another concept I don't believe in, but that's for another day and another post).
spiritplumber 12y ago
I got a lot of numbers by having a small robot set up with a phone, whereby sending a SMS to that phone with a command would execute it. Add a bit of busking. Doesn't mean anyone will want to talk back if you call later, though ;)
jonpress 12y ago
I didn't have many friends in school. I never tried to fit in - I found other people in my class to be predictable and uninteresting and it took me too much energy to pretend that I was enjoying their company. I went through several years of school with no friends at all - At times, 'cool' kids would invite me to play sports with them after school but I never did. I spent all my lunch breaks alone programming games on school library computers. I don't have much fear of rejection nowadays. I consistently choose the most difficult life decisions because I like challenges.
- semperfaux 12y ago
  I have no intention of questioning your choices, but I think you may be mistaking communing with others as some sort of easy way out. Personally, I find it pretty hard, so perhaps it'd be worth your time to try more real, deep interaction with people you don't know. It can be a serious challenge, and while having no fear of rejection is perhaps ideal, I don't think I would call intentional introversion the most difficult possible life decision.
  - jonpress 12y ago
    Most people are not deep - They don't really think - They just blindly try to adhere to various stereotypes. Everyone does that to some extent (including me) but there are many levels. Some people don't think even at the most trivial levels... For example, if someone identifies as a 'Geek' - They will often convince themselves that they like Star Wars, Legos, Sci-Fi, comic books, etc... But in reality, they really never actually gave these topics any thought based on their own individual merits.
- balabaster 12y ago
  If you like a challenge, why did you fold from the challenge of enjoying a sense of community with those that appear uninteresting to you? Everyone has something to learn and something to teach. I bet if you'd stuck it out, there was much you could have learned from them, and them from you. Closing yourself off in a room robs both you and them from a chance to grow.
percept 12y ago
I like the empowerment angle of this story, but a couple of the comments raise the valid question of whether or not this (further) breaks society.
CuriouslyC 12y ago
This is a good attitude. My philosophy on failure is a little different. I re-frame my actions as experiments. I come up with a hypothesis, and record the conditions and outcome of my experiments, then do a little mini-analysis on the results to try and understand it. Rather than view getting the outcome I wanted as success, I view learning from the experiment as a success, which is great, because you typically aren't in control of the outcome of events, but you absolutely are in control of how methodical you are. This also causes you to learn a lot faster than you otherwise would, which is great too.
kyleblarson 12y ago
Very good article, but I would say that exposure therapy has limits. I live in an area with lots of rattlesnakes and am terrified of them. I'm certainly not going to risk a venomous bite to get over my fear.
- curun1r 12y ago
  They actually use somewhat the opposite of this type of training with dogs to keep them from messing with rattlesnakes. It's more controlled, so the rattlesnake has a rubber band that keeps its mouth shut and the conditioning is given to the dog using a shock collar, but it doesn't take too many shocks before the dog won't go anywhere near a rattlesnake. It may seem cruel, but for dogs that live in area with lots of rattlesnakes where they allowed outside on their own, it can be lifesaving. Now that I'm thinking about it, opposite is probably the wrong word...it's more of the reverse. Whereas the man in the story is using the game to condition himself to learn that there's no (emotional) shock where one is expected, the dog trainers use exposure therapy to train dogs that there is a shock where one isn't expected. They're two sides of the same coin.
  - kyleblarson 12y ago
    We do this each spring with our dog: http://www.methownet.com/grist/features/dog_snake_training.html http://www.methownet.com/grist/features/dog_snake_training.h...
- kelnos 12y ago
  I think the idea is that exposure therapy helps you get over irrational fears. Fear of a venomous snake isn't really irrational.
  - erikpukinskis 12y ago
    Actually generalized fear of the venemous snakes is irrational. It's an overgeneralization. You should be afraid of stepping on or near a snake by accident. But if you are 20 feet away from a rattlesnake who is aware of your presence, you are not in any danger.
tinkerdol 12y ago
Anyone have a deck of cards for handling fear of success?
wtbob 12y ago
It's possible (probable) that he had developed a fear of rejection due to his divorce, but the very fact that he had a divorce indicates that he had been able to date and marry in the first place (to a poor choice, no doubt). I'm sure that his approach was able to return him to where he was before, and perhaps improve him, but I wonder if it would be any good for someone with a deep-seated fear of rejection, or if it might not make things worse (perhaps due to a few scenarios ending poorly, or the subject finding himself unable to complete even the simplest ones, and retreating further into himself).
- d23 12y ago
  Actually "immersion" or "flooding" is one of the things known to be effective for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_%28psychology%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_%28psychology%29 It's just basic conditioning.
- Houshalter 12y ago
  People with social anxiety disorder can have normal jobs and relationships. They just aren't good at meeting strangers.
ck425 12y ago
Fascinating. I do a lot of amateur theatre and one of the most useful things about it is that it forces you to do similar things to on a regular basis and it really does help a lot in various aspects of life. In particular it really helps deal with interview and presentation stress. I'm very tempted to give this a go myself.
benten10 12y ago
I have a problem that's opposite of his: a fear of acceptance. Making a game out of the rejection game is all fun, except when you don't get rejections. Imagine the guy you ask for a ride across the town actually insists you take the ride with him. The girl (re: an earlier comment)who you ask for a number gives you her number, but also asks for yours, and actually calls you to make sure it's right. So here's my conundrum: one one hand, there's a fear of going beyond my comfort zone. On the other there's what appears to be (likely quite unjustified) confidence that I will not get rejected as I hope. And thus, stasis. Was it Twain (or Groucho Marx?) who said "I don't want to become part of any club that will happily take me as their member"? That's quite a problem for me, and it's not as devastating as general fear of approaching people, but still quite annoying.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- elliejay 12y ago
  I think I may know where you are coming from. I, too, am afraid of acceptance, but it's partly because I think I know better than others that I am not truly worthy of their acceptance. I am dismayed when really good people want to reach out to me and be friends. I feel like I will be living a lie if I try to buoy their misconception of my value and I do not want to disappoint them. But the mere thought of trying to maintain that lie (that I am worthy of their friendship and affection) is just so exhausting for me to even imagine. Therefore, it is so much easier for me to avoid acceptance and just live my hermetic little life. Which ultimately, leads me back to a fear of rejection, I guess. Hmm.
  - solarmist 12y ago
    That sounds a bit like fear of rejection mixed with imposter syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome).
  - benten10 12y ago
    Ehh, you have not hung out with other people enough then. ;) You may be a 'loser', so to say, but most people around you are even bigger 'losers'. When I came to the country I am now in, I saw an image of amazing glowing enlightened creatures in my peers and everyone around me. Four years in, and I realize they are more immature, socially awkward and stranger than I ever was, and most of them are also lot stupider. These days, I beat myself over not figuring that out earlier. Look around yourself closely, and you'll realize hey, you're actually pretty awesome! :)
bryceadams 12y ago
Great things often come out of rejection, failure, disappointment. Problems need solutions, etc.
auggierose 12y ago
Well, it's a great way of finding out what people really think about you. Obviously, this cannot work on a large scale, because a lot of what society does is making sure that people NEVER find out what they think about each other.
- Zelphyr 12y ago
  It seems to me, though, that if we did, we wouldn't care. Sure it would bother me if two people I work with whom I respect told me what they truly thought of me and it was incongruous with my expectation of what they thought of me. But I think if I found out what EVERYONE thought of me it would quickly stop caring. But I guess to your point, if that happened then structures of society would break down. Still, I'm not sure that would be a bad thing necessarily since at the very least we'd start being completely honest with one another. Kind of makes me thing of the movie The Invention Of Lying.
rilita 12y ago
It seems the website to get the created "game" is rejectiontherapy.com . That website is selling a single pdf of these cards for $10? That is quite a killing...

152 points by megaultra 12y ago

Anyone tried anything like this, informally as described here or in a formal setting? I wonder how often it is successful.

MatthiasP 12y ago
Exposure to your fears is a pretty standard method out of the wide spectrum of cognitive-behavioural-therapy tools. Of course, preparation for that is the most important part of it. AFAIK, it works for about a third to half of the patients, depending on what measurement for success you apply.

pella 12y ago

old comments .. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5035438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5035438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1754790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1754790

mrbig4545 12y ago

what is it with gamifaction? I don't get it - it doesn't motivate me at all, infact it probably has the opposite effect.

onion2k 12y ago
People are motivated by different things. This guy was motivated by quantitative value tracking with defined goals ('scores', 'winning'). Some people's brains increase levels of serotonin in response to situations where they perceive they've done something good - you have a physical neural response to a psychological event. Other people's brains don't (or they release less serotonin, or there's serotonin uptake inhibitor at work somewhere). People like that doesn't feel 'good' in response to 'winning' so classical gamification doesn't work. The key to motivation is to make a psychological bridge between things that you don't want to do and the emotional state that releases neurological chemicals that in turn make you feel happy.
copsarebastards 12y ago
I doubt that. It's just that gamification requires you to buy into the premise of the game in the first place: to agree to try to maximize whatever "point" system the game scores you with. In some sense, income is a point system which you're almost certainly trying to maximize. Your comment reminds me of myself when I used to claim marketing doesn't work on me, and that it even made me less likely to buy things. And then found out about the brown bag effect (a marketing technique which uses drab colors and minimal text to look non-flashy). Gamification isn't as developed a science as marketing, but it still works pretty well, and it's very unlikely that it doesn't work on you.

pella 12y ago

video - 5 min "Mark Moschel - 30 Days of Rejection Therapy" Presented at the 2013 Quantified Self Conference http://vimeo.com/79453884 http://vimeo.com/79453884

phatfish 12y ago

If my wife had divorced me and i ended up a crying heap on the floor like this guy i would probably want to try this. Most people are not in that situation though, it's all relative. Fair play to him though.

RankingMember 12y ago
Fear of failure isn't something that only people who've been divorced and are crying heaps experience. If you've ever hesitated to ask a girl (or man) out, you know what this guy's talking about. I think this is a pretty novel approach to confronting that fear.
- IndianAstronaut 12y ago
  I wouldn't say novel. This has been a standard method in the PUA community for ages.
hessenwolf 12y ago
Don't worry, dude. Give it time. Coming out of any multi-year relationship is normally a shock to the system. The wonderful whiff of want is the fiercest anti-pheromone. Also, a good tip, put a rug on the floor.
- mod 12y ago
  This reads like greek to me, or like a Markov bot. I thought maybe it was a quote, but google has only indexed this page for "wonderful whiff of want." You coined a phrase, anyway!
  - hessenwolf 12y ago
    There's naught to do but converse, in a wee village in the West of Ireland. Gotta put a bit of colour in.
pmelendez 12y ago
I find this to be useful in other situations though, like asking +X% more of rise or in an interview, or asking for a better deal with your internet provider, or just a discount in an store.

SeanDav 12y ago

As a teenager I went to an all boys school, so was very shy with women. One day I just decided to get over my fear and resolved to ask for the telephone number of every pretty girl that caught my attention in public, even if they were with other girls. Importantly to the process was that it was never my intention to actually call the girl - just to see what percentage gave me their number. Since the outcome was not important, it did not matter if I was successful or not. It worked surprisngly well. I got over my fear and was quite amazed at my success rate. IIRC it was around 25%, maybe even higher. It was important to not be creepy, just friendly and withdraw if the situation became at all uncomfortable.

brazzy 12y ago
The question is how many of those 25% were fake numbers "just to get that creeper off my back". It's nice that you decided to "not be creepy", but it's not you who decides how your behaviour is judged.
- thirdtruck 12y ago
  That's a bit (I admit not entirely) like saying that "Maybe all those free-throws you practiced between games didn't score us any actual points." 100% of the women he didn't ask did not give him his number. The exercise served the purpose of pushing him past the fear that would have otherwise paralyzed him during a real request.
  - semperfaux 12y ago
    Not really at all. The analogy is entirely wrong. Yes, the exercise anecdotally served the purpose of improving his confidence. But no, your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded and has nothing to do with your false analogy.
    - juliangoldsmith 12y ago
      >your assumption that he would be unable to ask for a number he really wanted is unfounded Not if he has social anxiety.

xianshou 12y ago

I play Go and chess, and I think of it this way: the best players may have won more than others, but they have also lost more than others, because they have simply played more games. Frequent loss or rejection is a necessary step to goodness. This also applies to business, the opposite sex, and most anything else that might matter to you. Or, to paraphrase many an artist and CEO: if I have not failed today, it means I have not been ambitious enough.

thirdtruck 12y ago
I just finished Waitzkin's The Art of Learning, which discusses exactly that. He makes the point that (IIRC) Michael Jordan made more last-minute, game-winning throws than anyone else on his team, but he also missed the most game-losing ones. He only excelled by overreaching.
- Disruptive_Dave 12y ago
  http://georgelugojr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/michael-jordan-quote-1.jpg http://georgelugojr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/michael-j...
  - thirdtruck 12y ago
    Thanks!
  - getsat 12y ago
    This was actually a Nike commercial, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc
john_b 12y ago
To quote Michael Jordan: "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." Willingness to fail is a precondition for learning and growth.

bitL 12y ago

He could accelerate his progress if he just did 50 cold calls to random strangers selling diapers a day - he would be super hardened after a week ;-)

fenomas 12y ago
Which raises an interesting question - do people with such jobs deal exceptionally well with rejection? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do, but then I wouldn't be if they were more than averagely depressed, either. Surely someone must have looked into this.
- balabaster 12y ago
  I've worked with alongside cold-call sales people - not as a sales person myself. Largely, my observation of them wasn't that they're particularly thick skinned, nor were they particularly desensitized to rejection. The thing that most of them had in common was that they weren't emotionally bound to the outcome. They didn't care if the person said yes or no - except for the endorphin kick they got when they saw their pay cheque get bigger. For most of them, it was a game they played against each other - in the same way you might enjoy a board game and you strive to win, but the real fun is the camaraderie of the players. A rejection got a shoulder shrug and a "whatever, next" or a few choice curse words and the finger when the sales person wasted more time than necessary for a sale that never came before quickly moving on to the next call - the previous call forgotten as quickly as the next, unless the conversation was particularly humorous or worth sharing with their compatriots. Those with no scruples learned to manipulate people really well and got the sales by whatever means necessary. Those that cared got sales by listening to the customer and understanding the customer's needs. Mostly though, almost without exception, those with the most sales were those that got through the highest volume phone calls in a day. The success rate could be skewed to have a higher ratio of sales to calls, but at the end of the day, that took emotional effort and didn't really yield any extra benefit to the sales person - of course, this potentially had a huge negative affect on the reputation of the company. I see the same thing with all the utility companies. Their sales teams are often the first point of contact for a customer. But the sales guys don't care about that, all they care about are the numbers. The rest is for customer service to figure out. The lesson I learned from watching the sales guys in action is that all things considered equal, the greater the volume of calls, the greater your success. Don't be emotionally involved in the outcome before it's necessary to do so - at the end of the day, you're just asking her to come for coffee with you, you're not asking her to marry you. The more people you ask to go for coffee, the more chance you'll find someone that's got nothing better to do than go for coffee with you - even if you do think they're out of your league (that's another concept I don't believe in, but that's for another day and another post).

spiritplumber 12y ago

I got a lot of numbers by having a small robot set up with a phone, whereby sending a SMS to that phone with a command would execute it. Add a bit of busking. Doesn't mean anyone will want to talk back if you call later, though ;)

jonpress 12y ago

I didn't have many friends in school. I never tried to fit in - I found other people in my class to be predictable and uninteresting and it took me too much energy to pretend that I was enjoying their company. I went through several years of school with no friends at all - At times, 'cool' kids would invite me to play sports with them after school but I never did. I spent all my lunch breaks alone programming games on school library computers. I don't have much fear of rejection nowadays. I consistently choose the most difficult life decisions because I like challenges.

semperfaux 12y ago
I have no intention of questioning your choices, but I think you may be mistaking communing with others as some sort of easy way out. Personally, I find it pretty hard, so perhaps it'd be worth your time to try more real, deep interaction with people you don't know. It can be a serious challenge, and while having no fear of rejection is perhaps ideal, I don't think I would call intentional introversion the most difficult possible life decision.
- jonpress 12y ago
  Most people are not deep - They don't really think - They just blindly try to adhere to various stereotypes. Everyone does that to some extent (including me) but there are many levels. Some people don't think even at the most trivial levels... For example, if someone identifies as a 'Geek' - They will often convince themselves that they like Star Wars, Legos, Sci-Fi, comic books, etc... But in reality, they really never actually gave these topics any thought based on their own individual merits.
balabaster 12y ago
If you like a challenge, why did you fold from the challenge of enjoying a sense of community with those that appear uninteresting to you? Everyone has something to learn and something to teach. I bet if you'd stuck it out, there was much you could have learned from them, and them from you. Closing yourself off in a room robs both you and them from a chance to grow.

percept 12y ago

I like the empowerment angle of this story, but a couple of the comments raise the valid question of whether or not this (further) breaks society.

CuriouslyC 12y ago

This is a good attitude. My philosophy on failure is a little different. I re-frame my actions as experiments. I come up with a hypothesis, and record the conditions and outcome of my experiments, then do a little mini-analysis on the results to try and understand it. Rather than view getting the outcome I wanted as success, I view learning from the experiment as a success, which is great, because you typically aren't in control of the outcome of events, but you absolutely are in control of how methodical you are. This also causes you to learn a lot faster than you otherwise would, which is great too.

kyleblarson 12y ago

Very good article, but I would say that exposure therapy has limits. I live in an area with lots of rattlesnakes and am terrified of them. I'm certainly not going to risk a venomous bite to get over my fear.

curun1r 12y ago
They actually use somewhat the opposite of this type of training with dogs to keep them from messing with rattlesnakes. It's more controlled, so the rattlesnake has a rubber band that keeps its mouth shut and the conditioning is given to the dog using a shock collar, but it doesn't take too many shocks before the dog won't go anywhere near a rattlesnake. It may seem cruel, but for dogs that live in area with lots of rattlesnakes where they allowed outside on their own, it can be lifesaving. Now that I'm thinking about it, opposite is probably the wrong word...it's more of the reverse. Whereas the man in the story is using the game to condition himself to learn that there's no (emotional) shock where one is expected, the dog trainers use exposure therapy to train dogs that there is a shock where one isn't expected. They're two sides of the same coin.
- kyleblarson 12y ago
  We do this each spring with our dog: http://www.methownet.com/grist/features/dog_snake_training.html http://www.methownet.com/grist/features/dog_snake_training.h...
kelnos 12y ago
I think the idea is that exposure therapy helps you get over irrational fears. Fear of a venomous snake isn't really irrational.
- erikpukinskis 12y ago
  Actually generalized fear of the venemous snakes is irrational. It's an overgeneralization. You should be afraid of stepping on or near a snake by accident. But if you are 20 feet away from a rattlesnake who is aware of your presence, you are not in any danger.

tinkerdol 12y ago

Anyone have a deck of cards for handling fear of success?

wtbob 12y ago

It's possible (probable) that he had developed a fear of rejection due to his divorce, but the very fact that he had a divorce indicates that he had been able to date and marry in the first place (to a poor choice, no doubt). I'm sure that his approach was able to return him to where he was before, and perhaps improve him, but I wonder if it would be any good for someone with a deep-seated fear of rejection, or if it might not make things worse (perhaps due to a few scenarios ending poorly, or the subject finding himself unable to complete even the simplest ones, and retreating further into himself).

d23 12y ago
Actually "immersion" or "flooding" is one of the things known to be effective for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_%28psychology%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_%28psychology%29 It's just basic conditioning.
Houshalter 12y ago
People with social anxiety disorder can have normal jobs and relationships. They just aren't good at meeting strangers.

ck425 12y ago

Fascinating. I do a lot of amateur theatre and one of the most useful things about it is that it forces you to do similar things to on a regular basis and it really does help a lot in various aspects of life. In particular it really helps deal with interview and presentation stress. I'm very tempted to give this a go myself.

benten10 12y ago

I have a problem that's opposite of his: a fear of acceptance. Making a game out of the rejection game is all fun, except when you don't get rejections. Imagine the guy you ask for a ride across the town actually insists you take the ride with him. The girl (re: an earlier comment)who you ask for a number gives you her number, but also asks for yours, and actually calls you to make sure it's right. So here's my conundrum: one one hand, there's a fear of going beyond my comfort zone. On the other there's what appears to be (likely quite unjustified) confidence that I will not get rejected as I hope. And thus, stasis. Was it Twain (or Groucho Marx?) who said "I don't want to become part of any club that will happily take me as their member"? That's quite a problem for me, and it's not as devastating as general fear of approaching people, but still quite annoying.

deleted 12y ago
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elliejay 12y ago
I think I may know where you are coming from. I, too, am afraid of acceptance, but it's partly because I think I know better than others that I am not truly worthy of their acceptance. I am dismayed when really good people want to reach out to me and be friends. I feel like I will be living a lie if I try to buoy their misconception of my value and I do not want to disappoint them. But the mere thought of trying to maintain that lie (that I am worthy of their friendship and affection) is just so exhausting for me to even imagine. Therefore, it is so much easier for me to avoid acceptance and just live my hermetic little life. Which ultimately, leads me back to a fear of rejection, I guess. Hmm.
- solarmist 12y ago
  That sounds a bit like fear of rejection mixed with imposter syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome).
- benten10 12y ago
  Ehh, you have not hung out with other people enough then. ;) You may be a 'loser', so to say, but most people around you are even bigger 'losers'. When I came to the country I am now in, I saw an image of amazing glowing enlightened creatures in my peers and everyone around me. Four years in, and I realize they are more immature, socially awkward and stranger than I ever was, and most of them are also lot stupider. These days, I beat myself over not figuring that out earlier. Look around yourself closely, and you'll realize hey, you're actually pretty awesome! :)

bryceadams 12y ago

Great things often come out of rejection, failure, disappointment. Problems need solutions, etc.

auggierose 12y ago

Well, it's a great way of finding out what people really think about you. Obviously, this cannot work on a large scale, because a lot of what society does is making sure that people NEVER find out what they think about each other.

Zelphyr 12y ago
It seems to me, though, that if we did, we wouldn't care. Sure it would bother me if two people I work with whom I respect told me what they truly thought of me and it was incongruous with my expectation of what they thought of me. But I think if I found out what EVERYONE thought of me it would quickly stop caring. But I guess to your point, if that happened then structures of society would break down. Still, I'm not sure that would be a bad thing necessarily since at the very least we'd start being completely honest with one another. Kind of makes me thing of the movie The Invention Of Lying.

rilita 12y ago

It seems the website to get the created "game" is rejectiontherapy.com . That website is selling a single pdf of these cards for $10? That is quite a killing...