26 ms·

That's amazing. I really hope that more research is done in (stem) cells. It shows outstanding promise, and it seems safe to assume that this is just the start

That's amazing. I really hope that more research is done in (stem) cells. It shows outstanding promise, and it seems safe to assume that this is just the start for a technique of treatments that revolutionizes the way we view and treat illness. Edit: The article did not mention stem cells, but I think stem cells will inevitably be discussed in this thread as they're a very closely related topic, hence the mention.

DigitalJack 12y ago
It is amazing, but there were no stem cells involved here.
sdegutis 12y ago
No matter how noble or good the goal, immoral means should be avoided at all costs. We should seek healing from science and from God, but when all else fails, suffering patiently has a purpose in building character, among other things.
- quotient 12y ago
  Is that a joke?
  - sdegutis 12y ago
    No, I'm practically quoting St. Francis de Sales.
    - threeseed 12y ago
      Wherever it came from it is an insensitive and antiquated quote. There is nothing noble or character building about someone who has become a quadraplegic, lost all bowel and sexual function control and now relies almost entirely on strangers for day to day living. It recently happened to my sister-in-law and it's a truly devastating situation. If we can remove suffering in the world then we should.
      - sdegutis 12y ago
        We agree that if we can remove suffering in the world, then we should. But it's how we respond to things we cannot control that builds character.
        mikeash 12y ago
        Like responding to downvotes by whining about religious oppression?
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      Quoting someone does not make it right.
      - logfromblammo 12y ago
        I once heard a story from an old man, about wrestling at a small town school. He was in a very light weight class, such that when the school played matches against other schools, the opposing team might not even have anyone in his class. So rather than sit and watch, he wrestled above his weight class. Instead of seeking to win, sought to delay the pin as long as possible. So he practiced neck bridges, and developed the thickest neck on a skinny kid that you have ever seen. He took his own version of victory--namely that the heavier wrestler could not score a pin on him within the match time limit--from what might otherwise be considered defeat. There was no possibility of true victory, only the choice between aristeia--doing the best you possibly can--and resignation to defeat. There was no expectation that anyone owed him a fair match. He just tackled the challenge before him to the best of his ability, and lost every time, until he finally won. And now he has an interesting story to tell, for as long as he can keep the reaper from pinning him.
- sdegutis 12y ago
  What can I deduce from all these downvotes? That HN is unwelcoming and intolerant towards people of faith? For people of faith, their faith manifests itself in every aspect of life, not sparing even a corner. Being dismissive is one thing, but actively silencing that person (by downvoting, which here inevitably leads to lower visibility or even invisibility) is tantamount to intolerance. Is it right that a culture so proud of its tolerance should be intolerant?
  - nether 12y ago
    Ya
  - nooron 12y ago
    Your interpretation of your faith != people of faith, sdegutis. I prefer a civil discussion of medical ethics to simple down voting myself. Feel free to drop a little bit more on your views here. I'm a bit rusty but I did once have a very sharp Christian theological blade. I'll see if I can make you feel more at home and respected.
    - geographomics 12y ago
      I assume at least some of the downvotes were given simply that he was off topic. The ethical issues of using embryonic stem cells are hardly applicable to grafting one's own cells from one part of the body to another.
  - melling 12y ago
    Which part of this was immoral? "A paralysed man has been able to walk again after a pioneering therapy that involved transplanting cells from his nasal cavity into his spinal cord."
    - sdegutis 12y ago
      I was referring to the well-known controversy over stem cell research, specifically embryonic stem cell research, mentioned by the person I replied to.
- alexandre_m 12y ago
  "suffering patiently" Hmm, say that to sick children (of all kinds). I see your point about growing stronger thru suffering, but there are different kind of injuries and life injustice where it just doesn't apply. Breaking your arm is different than being paralyzed from top to bottom or being blind.
  - sdegutis 12y ago
    In the context from which I speak, all injustices are righted in the end. So yes, it should be said even to children, to the dying, to anyone who is suffering even severe injustices for seemingly no reason.
    - petegrif 12y ago
      That must be a great comfort to them. But what an empty context to speak from that reduces all ills to events that will be 'righted in the end.'
    - Dylan16807 12y ago
      I wouldn't say that anything in death and beyond can truly right the wrongs that happen in life. Also suffering has a very damaging effect on character in many people.
    - silencio 12y ago
      My (sensory) neuropathy is total peanuts in comparison to being paralyzed but I still wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It does not build character in any way. It eats away at me because the pain is so hard to control. No amount of anything in the afterlife is going to balance this out. All I can do is wait it out and try everything thrown at me to see what might stick. The idea that I'm supposed to sit around and take it - because faith! - is quite frankly deeply offensive.
      - manmal 12y ago
        Have you looked into methylation protocols already?
ajuc 12y ago
Re stem cells - my sister is a vet, she says currently animals get much better treatment than people because stem cells are experimental for people, but routinely used on animals, and the effects are astonishing. She also have this conspiracy theory about sport stars returning to sport 3 months after especially bad injuries - they must get stem cells, it's impossible otherways. I don't know if it's true, I hope it is because it means it will eventually be used on regular people as well.
- tim333 12y ago
  I think it's a shame that this kind of experimentation is not done in a way that maximises the well being of mankind. Paralysed rats were sucessfully got to walk again at least as early as 2003 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x8e2qsAVGc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x8e2qsAVGc) and it would seem to make sense to experiment on the odd human but instead we have to wait decades I think at least partly to cover the regulators arses in case there are any problems. But it would be better for society to have the odd experimental problem than thousands people suffer for years while they muck about with paperwork and the like. I see from Wikipedia that Geron Corporation have recently submitted 28,000 pages of documents to the FDA for a stem cell related trial so maybe in 2023 or some such we'll be able to do for people what we could do for rats in 2003.
- mason240 12y ago
  >She also have this conspiracy theory about sport stars returning to sport 3 months after especially bad injuries - they must get stem cells, it's impossible otherways. No conspiracy, they are all using HGH. Someone did some analysis on the shortened recovery times for players with ligament tears (like ACLs) and found that while the recovery times have always been getting shorter thanks to improvements in physical therapy, but the there was a dramatic drop at about the time HGH started to be widely used. The NFL just started lasting for HGH last month. The test supposedly is easy to beat, but it will be interesting to see if it has an effect on times.

DigitalJack 12y ago

It is amazing, but there were no stem cells involved here.

sdegutis 12y ago

No matter how noble or good the goal, immoral means should be avoided at all costs. We should seek healing from science and from God, but when all else fails, suffering patiently has a purpose in building character, among other things.

quotient 12y ago
Is that a joke?
- sdegutis 12y ago
  No, I'm practically quoting St. Francis de Sales.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    Wherever it came from it is an insensitive and antiquated quote. There is nothing noble or character building about someone who has become a quadraplegic, lost all bowel and sexual function control and now relies almost entirely on strangers for day to day living. It recently happened to my sister-in-law and it's a truly devastating situation. If we can remove suffering in the world then we should.
    - sdegutis 12y ago
      We agree that if we can remove suffering in the world, then we should. But it's how we respond to things we cannot control that builds character.
      - mikeash 12y ago
        Like responding to downvotes by whining about religious oppression?
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Quoting someone does not make it right.
    - logfromblammo 12y ago
      I once heard a story from an old man, about wrestling at a small town school. He was in a very light weight class, such that when the school played matches against other schools, the opposing team might not even have anyone in his class. So rather than sit and watch, he wrestled above his weight class. Instead of seeking to win, sought to delay the pin as long as possible. So he practiced neck bridges, and developed the thickest neck on a skinny kid that you have ever seen. He took his own version of victory--namely that the heavier wrestler could not score a pin on him within the match time limit--from what might otherwise be considered defeat. There was no possibility of true victory, only the choice between aristeia--doing the best you possibly can--and resignation to defeat. There was no expectation that anyone owed him a fair match. He just tackled the challenge before him to the best of his ability, and lost every time, until he finally won. And now he has an interesting story to tell, for as long as he can keep the reaper from pinning him.
sdegutis 12y ago
What can I deduce from all these downvotes? That HN is unwelcoming and intolerant towards people of faith? For people of faith, their faith manifests itself in every aspect of life, not sparing even a corner. Being dismissive is one thing, but actively silencing that person (by downvoting, which here inevitably leads to lower visibility or even invisibility) is tantamount to intolerance. Is it right that a culture so proud of its tolerance should be intolerant?
- nether 12y ago
  Ya
- nooron 12y ago
  Your interpretation of your faith != people of faith, sdegutis. I prefer a civil discussion of medical ethics to simple down voting myself. Feel free to drop a little bit more on your views here. I'm a bit rusty but I did once have a very sharp Christian theological blade. I'll see if I can make you feel more at home and respected.
  - geographomics 12y ago
    I assume at least some of the downvotes were given simply that he was off topic. The ethical issues of using embryonic stem cells are hardly applicable to grafting one's own cells from one part of the body to another.
- melling 12y ago
  Which part of this was immoral? "A paralysed man has been able to walk again after a pioneering therapy that involved transplanting cells from his nasal cavity into his spinal cord."
  - sdegutis 12y ago
    I was referring to the well-known controversy over stem cell research, specifically embryonic stem cell research, mentioned by the person I replied to.
alexandre_m 12y ago
"suffering patiently" Hmm, say that to sick children (of all kinds). I see your point about growing stronger thru suffering, but there are different kind of injuries and life injustice where it just doesn't apply. Breaking your arm is different than being paralyzed from top to bottom or being blind.
- sdegutis 12y ago
  In the context from which I speak, all injustices are righted in the end. So yes, it should be said even to children, to the dying, to anyone who is suffering even severe injustices for seemingly no reason.
  - petegrif 12y ago
    That must be a great comfort to them. But what an empty context to speak from that reduces all ills to events that will be 'righted in the end.'
  - Dylan16807 12y ago
    I wouldn't say that anything in death and beyond can truly right the wrongs that happen in life. Also suffering has a very damaging effect on character in many people.
  - silencio 12y ago
    My (sensory) neuropathy is total peanuts in comparison to being paralyzed but I still wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It does not build character in any way. It eats away at me because the pain is so hard to control. No amount of anything in the afterlife is going to balance this out. All I can do is wait it out and try everything thrown at me to see what might stick. The idea that I'm supposed to sit around and take it - because faith! - is quite frankly deeply offensive.
    - manmal 12y ago
      Have you looked into methylation protocols already?

ajuc 12y ago

Re stem cells - my sister is a vet, she says currently animals get much better treatment than people because stem cells are experimental for people, but routinely used on animals, and the effects are astonishing. She also have this conspiracy theory about sport stars returning to sport 3 months after especially bad injuries - they must get stem cells, it's impossible otherways. I don't know if it's true, I hope it is because it means it will eventually be used on regular people as well.

tim333 12y ago
I think it's a shame that this kind of experimentation is not done in a way that maximises the well being of mankind. Paralysed rats were sucessfully got to walk again at least as early as 2003 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x8e2qsAVGc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x8e2qsAVGc) and it would seem to make sense to experiment on the odd human but instead we have to wait decades I think at least partly to cover the regulators arses in case there are any problems. But it would be better for society to have the odd experimental problem than thousands people suffer for years while they muck about with paperwork and the like. I see from Wikipedia that Geron Corporation have recently submitted 28,000 pages of documents to the FDA for a stem cell related trial so maybe in 2023 or some such we'll be able to do for people what we could do for rats in 2003.
mason240 12y ago
>She also have this conspiracy theory about sport stars returning to sport 3 months after especially bad injuries - they must get stem cells, it's impossible otherways. No conspiracy, they are all using HGH. Someone did some analysis on the shortened recovery times for players with ligament tears (like ACLs) and found that while the recovery times have always been getting shorter thanks to improvements in physical therapy, but the there was a dramatic drop at about the time HGH started to be widely used. The NFL just started lasting for HGH last month. The test supposedly is easy to beat, but it will be interesting to see if it has an effect on times.