5 ms·

Think about the user experience. If switching, a user no longer has to wait on delivery of a small physical item from the new carrier. The user doesn't have to

by Ricapar 12y ago

Think about the user experience. If switching, a user no longer has to wait on delivery of a small physical item from the new carrier. The user doesn't have to fiddle with a paperclip to pop out the SIM. (Average user could be scared to do so, or could scratch/bend the rather fragile SIM tray). It could all theoretically be done from a settings menu.

scholia 12y ago
It also avoids the problem I have at the moment: three smartphones that take different sized SIMs ;-)
- francuzz 12y ago
  Yes, but this problem was created mainly by Apple itself when they "standardised" nano-SIM
  - scholia 12y ago
    This is true. The standard sim, when clipped, works in two of my smartphones....
korzun 12y ago
Walk in any providers store and they will do it for you, free of charge. Takes 2 minutes. People who understand what a SIM like this does, will definitely understand how to replace SIM's. In my opinion anyways.
- brianpan 12y ago
  Most people don't even understand what a SIM is, let alone how to replace one. They probably can find their Settings app though.
  - josteink 12y ago
    In Europe, everyone I know who has a cellphone knows what a SIM is (even grannies), and they know this is the item connecting their phone to their service subscription. I guess to people from the US this may seem "foreign", but it's really simple and it really works.
    - brianpan 12y ago
      Exactly, I was speaking from a US perspective. The historical reason for this is in Europe, interoperability as you travel between countries was a priority, so a single European protocol (GSM) with a removable, interchangeable SIM developed. In America, competition/free market was the priority so the result was many non-compatible digital protocols (CDMA/TDMA/Nextel/GSM). In the US, if you're switching carriers, you are probably throwing away your phone and getting a new (subsidized) one from your new carrier. Even if you are moving from a GSM to another GSM carrier, because of the subsidies the old SIM is probably locked to your old carrier and it might be cheaper to get a new, subsidized one anyway.
  - sriramiyer 12y ago
    This is silly. I'm an Indian (country with largest penetration of mobile phones, primarily GSM) and I can reasonably say that a large majority of the population knows exactly what a SIM card is. Phones here are not appliances that you buy from the carrier. The device and the service are properly decoupled enough that people know the difference.
  - mrweasel 12y ago
    I would argue that most people inserted the SIM in their phone themselfs. People switch carries all the time and most carries don't have stores, so who would put in the SIM if the customer doesn't? If you buy the phone and SIM on the carries website, you don't get the SIM and phone in separate packages, so again who would insert the SIM if not the customer? Changing carries from the settings app would most likely be more confusing. I think some people would be worried if the see the logo of a carrier other than their own in the settings menu.
- nknighthb 12y ago
  What is... "store"? In the 6+ years I spent in Silicon Valley, I entered a Walgreens every three months to pick up a prescription, and probably could've dispensed with that if I'd taken half an hour to figure out my provider's online thing. Other than that and the rare emergency, everything else (yes, including groceries) was ordered online and delivered to my home. The only businesses I routinely entered were my workplace and restaurants. Why should I have to go to some stupid store to get a SIM card when I could just switch online in 30 seconds?
  - kalleboo 12y ago
    > Why should I have to go to some stupid store to get a SIM card when I could just switch online in 30 seconds? Because online you'll be limited to whoever Apple has a deal with. SIM cards are about freedom. Sure, an online infrastructure and the laws to force an implementation of it are technically simple, and could be done, but with thousands of carriers in 200 countries, it's never going to be all-encompassing. SIM cards being mandated in the GSM standard in 1991 was amazingly forward-thinking and we have a lot to thank for it today.
    - nknighthb 12y ago
      That's not a reason to keep a stupid, obsolete design around. It's a reason to fix the problem correctly with a modern public key infrastructure.
      - kalleboo 12y ago
        I would love that, but it's a utopian vision. Apple will create a closed system only for them. Google will create a separate system. Firefox OS or any future competitors will be screwed over.
        nknighthb 12y ago
        This is effectively saying that the very GSM standard you cited is impossible. Particularly in light of close regulatory scrutiny in Europe, that seems unlikely.
joenathan 12y ago
That sort of user would be afraid of the settings menu.
kalleboo 12y ago
> If switching, a user no longer has to wait on delivery of a small physical item from the new carrier Where I'm from, SIM cards can be got in a huge dollar bin at the electronics store, or a vending machine at the airport. > The user doesn't have to fiddle with a paperclip to pop out the SIM That's just Apple. They're solving a problem they invented themselves.
KJasper 12y ago
In the Netherlands you can even buy simcards in supermarkets, almost every supermarket is a virtual provider itself. If you go to a telecomshop they'll install it for you. Your describing something that's completely foreign to everyone over here.
- eyko 12y ago
  This would potentially allow you to change providers (O2->3, Vodafone->giffgaff) without needing to go to any physical shops. Just get a new contract online, apply it to your sim card. You get to also keep your number without having to fiddle with PAC codes and activation timeframes. I guess.

by Ricapar 12y ago

scholia 12y ago

It also avoids the problem I have at the moment: three smartphones that take different sized SIMs ;-)

francuzz 12y ago
Yes, but this problem was created mainly by Apple itself when they "standardised" nano-SIM
- scholia 12y ago
  This is true. The standard sim, when clipped, works in two of my smartphones....

korzun 12y ago

Walk in any providers store and they will do it for you, free of charge. Takes 2 minutes. People who understand what a SIM like this does, will definitely understand how to replace SIM's. In my opinion anyways.

brianpan 12y ago
Most people don't even understand what a SIM is, let alone how to replace one. They probably can find their Settings app though.
- josteink 12y ago
  In Europe, everyone I know who has a cellphone knows what a SIM is (even grannies), and they know this is the item connecting their phone to their service subscription. I guess to people from the US this may seem "foreign", but it's really simple and it really works.
  - brianpan 12y ago
    Exactly, I was speaking from a US perspective. The historical reason for this is in Europe, interoperability as you travel between countries was a priority, so a single European protocol (GSM) with a removable, interchangeable SIM developed. In America, competition/free market was the priority so the result was many non-compatible digital protocols (CDMA/TDMA/Nextel/GSM). In the US, if you're switching carriers, you are probably throwing away your phone and getting a new (subsidized) one from your new carrier. Even if you are moving from a GSM to another GSM carrier, because of the subsidies the old SIM is probably locked to your old carrier and it might be cheaper to get a new, subsidized one anyway.
- sriramiyer 12y ago
  This is silly. I'm an Indian (country with largest penetration of mobile phones, primarily GSM) and I can reasonably say that a large majority of the population knows exactly what a SIM card is. Phones here are not appliances that you buy from the carrier. The device and the service are properly decoupled enough that people know the difference.
- mrweasel 12y ago
  I would argue that most people inserted the SIM in their phone themselfs. People switch carries all the time and most carries don't have stores, so who would put in the SIM if the customer doesn't? If you buy the phone and SIM on the carries website, you don't get the SIM and phone in separate packages, so again who would insert the SIM if not the customer? Changing carries from the settings app would most likely be more confusing. I think some people would be worried if the see the logo of a carrier other than their own in the settings menu.
nknighthb 12y ago
What is... "store"? In the 6+ years I spent in Silicon Valley, I entered a Walgreens every three months to pick up a prescription, and probably could've dispensed with that if I'd taken half an hour to figure out my provider's online thing. Other than that and the rare emergency, everything else (yes, including groceries) was ordered online and delivered to my home. The only businesses I routinely entered were my workplace and restaurants. Why should I have to go to some stupid store to get a SIM card when I could just switch online in 30 seconds?
- kalleboo 12y ago
  > Why should I have to go to some stupid store to get a SIM card when I could just switch online in 30 seconds? Because online you'll be limited to whoever Apple has a deal with. SIM cards are about freedom. Sure, an online infrastructure and the laws to force an implementation of it are technically simple, and could be done, but with thousands of carriers in 200 countries, it's never going to be all-encompassing. SIM cards being mandated in the GSM standard in 1991 was amazingly forward-thinking and we have a lot to thank for it today.
  - nknighthb 12y ago
    That's not a reason to keep a stupid, obsolete design around. It's a reason to fix the problem correctly with a modern public key infrastructure.
    - kalleboo 12y ago
      I would love that, but it's a utopian vision. Apple will create a closed system only for them. Google will create a separate system. Firefox OS or any future competitors will be screwed over.
      - nknighthb 12y ago
        This is effectively saying that the very GSM standard you cited is impossible. Particularly in light of close regulatory scrutiny in Europe, that seems unlikely.

joenathan 12y ago

That sort of user would be afraid of the settings menu.

kalleboo 12y ago

> If switching, a user no longer has to wait on delivery of a small physical item from the new carrier Where I'm from, SIM cards can be got in a huge dollar bin at the electronics store, or a vending machine at the airport. > The user doesn't have to fiddle with a paperclip to pop out the SIM That's just Apple. They're solving a problem they invented themselves.

KJasper 12y ago

In the Netherlands you can even buy simcards in supermarkets, almost every supermarket is a virtual provider itself. If you go to a telecomshop they'll install it for you. Your describing something that's completely foreign to everyone over here.

eyko 12y ago
This would potentially allow you to change providers (O2->3, Vodafone->giffgaff) without needing to go to any physical shops. Just get a new contract online, apply it to your sim card. You get to also keep your number without having to fiddle with PAC codes and activation timeframes. I guess.