5 ms·

Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

100 points by murtali 12y ago

KhalilK 12y ago
Funny how LoL is what got me into programming (Lua).
- heyheyhey 12y ago
  SC:BW got me into programming. Rigging UMS maps with triggers that only I knew of...ahh good times.
  - diminoten 12y ago
    Oddly enough, battle.net itself is what got me into computers. There was a vibrant hacking community that existed back in the day, and watching all those older kids do cool stuff got me interested in software.
  - austinz 12y ago
    When I was in middle school, I thought SC's trigger-based map editor was the most amazing thing ever. I even built a four-mission mini campaign that I showed my friends, who promptly told me that it sucked. (It was actually pretty terrible, although fun to make.) That, and collecting UMS maps and putting them on my GeoCities page.
  - duskwuff 12y ago
    The incredible part is, DotA started out as a Warcraft 3 custom map. Hell, there's still a version being maintained by the developers at Valve which largely maintains feature parity with DotA 2.
- forrestthewoods 12y ago
  How is that? Is LoL moddable via Lua? Very curious what you did exactly!
  - meotai 12y ago
    Not sure if that was sarcasm. In case you're genuinely interested; scripting/hacking/cheating. Instant Kass pentakill...
  - KhalilK 12y ago
    is LoL moddable vi Lua? Oh yeah! I don't know about now though, it sure used to be. I didn't do anything fancy, just some basic bot automation and a couple miscellaneous chatbox-based addons (mostly for spamming) but it got me learning Lua. Edit: Looks like LoL is still moddable via Lua[0] 0.http://leaguebot.net/ http://leaguebot.net/
    - tokenizerrr 12y ago
      Is that officially allowed? Or do you risk a ban by using a tool like that? I'm guessing it's not since it's a paid product?
      - dylz 12y ago
        It's a cheat. Bannable.
- dethstar 12y ago
  I used to play Tibia when I was around 12-15 and I started hosting my own server, since I wanted to make some unique quests for the people that used my server I started modifying Lua files then writing some of my own. To me it always read like plain English (and English isn't my mother language). In fact I'd say I even learnt some English from reserved words (like If).
cjslep 12y ago
Their commitment to community is what really kept me hooked in the early years. Nikita (Nikasaur) interacting with the fan-made material was really cool. Having staff interact with players (ex Shurelia) in a way that isn't constrained (like CCP Games and EVE) also kept me playing unlike any other sort of marketing technique. It all ultimately inspired me to enter into their first community contest (LoL Logo Lookout photo), and it is the only public contest I've ever entered online. Last I heard those entries are still hanging in the office somewhere. I no longer play, as I got sensible about my time. But really, their commitment to their community is something I still respect from the opposite coast.
jokoon 12y ago
I played long hours of counter strike, warcraft 3, wow, quake, starcraft 2, and I never liked the original dota map nor LoL. I just think it's a bad mix of several games. The level format doesn't make a lot of sense. It has the disadvantages of a RTS while being some sort of a RPG (little or no persistence), doesn't have a solo mode, and doesn't even allow to control more than 1 unit. It's slow and boring. The content is quite ugly and the gameplay comes straight out of wc3. The creep system is weird, unusual and just irrational. LoL is a frank success because other games failed to capitalize on esport. But LoL is not a game I like to play at all. I wish that in the future companies like id, valve and blizzard will be able to better orient their quality game towards more esport while satisfying gamers from all spectrums: the casual gamers like the one who like to spend time doing matches. Blizzard found a great balance between the two, but to me there's so much more to be done.
- greatergoodguy 12y ago
  An important attribute of an e-sport is that it should be entertaining to watch. Since LoL is a game where a player controls a single unit, it's easy to follow along for the spectator.
  - jokoon 12y ago
    I certainly want to also enjoy playing it, just watching it is not going to be very entertaining to me.
    - greatergoodguy 12y ago
      I want you to enjoy playing it also.
    - thret 12y ago
      You may enjoy watching this heroic catapult. Incredible pathing win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urYeLZ2uk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urYeLZ2uk0
    - Semaphor 12y ago
h43z 12y ago
What I like about LoL is that it combines the right amout of knowledge, skill, tactics and teamwork to be successful. You can get into the game quite quickly and have fun on a lower level but also play it intensivly without reaching any kind of horizon because the game constantly changes. And riot also provides you with an api https://developer.riotgames.com/ https://developer.riotgames.com/
Cyranix 12y ago
I no longer play, but I still watch the pro teams from time to time. One of the things that has impressed me the most about Riot's approach has been their willingness to make dramatic modifications to core game mechanics in an effort to keep games exciting for both players and spectators. An example that indicates the difference between last year's world championship games and this year's is the ward system. Wards are items that a player can place near their current location, invisible to the enemy team, to gain vision into the fog of war, which is vital for decreasing risk in map-wide coordinated team strategies. Under the old system, pro teams often bogged down during the mid- and late-game phases as they vied for map vision superiority, and the only viable strategy was to purchase as many of the superior ward type (pink, with green being inferior) as possible and equip at least one player with a long-term ability to see invisible elements. Under the new system, both green and pink wards are valuable — the former are invisible to enemies and time-limited, the latter are visible to enemies but can detect invisible elements and are not time-limited — and all players have access to a periodic ability to place an extra ward or shut down enemy wards. As a result, the action in this year's matches has been much more consistent, as teams can still angle for vision control without losing momentum. Just today, I saw some rough notes (http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/9dG0ndq0-rough-notes-pbe http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gamepla...) on changes being tested in public beta. The scope of changes is massive! Starting stats, behavior of towers, and the range of temporary buffs are all on the table for a major revamp. It would be really easy for Riot to resist improving their game under the excuse of "this is the way we've always done it", but they continue to push and innovate from within. A great example of keeping a startup mentality alive within an established company! ===== On another note more closely related to the posted article: for anyone that doesn't already watch pro-level League of Legends and is interested based on this article, you can follow the remainder of the current world championship matches through http://na.lolesports.com http://na.lolesports.com — the next best-of-five between two Samsung-sponsored teams should be very exciting. Past matches are available via http://na.lolesports.com/vods/league/worlds http://na.lolesports.com/vods/league/worlds and I would highly recommend the Fnatic vs. OMG game from the group stages (direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O345c46mFqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O345c46mFqY).
- sliverstorm 12y ago
jjcm 12y ago
While LoL is by far the more popular game, I find what Valve is doing with Dota to be more interesting. They're heavily investing in the spectator portion of the sport, and it's paying off in spades. They've added in the ability to watch replays, see instant-replays during live games (especially useful when the casters miss a battle off screen), see post-battle stats, and view player analytics all in-client. The article mentions that Riot lost money in hosting The World Championship, but during The International (the Dota 2 equivalent), Valve made over $30 million from selling interactive playbills for the tournament. Twitch has become a huge part of the events as well, but I think it's telling that Valve is strategically moving forward with trying to make viewing the game just as important as playing the game. Esports as a spectator sport is definitely going to become much bigger moving forward (LoL's World Championship already has more viewers than baseball's World Series, and in Dota 2 to win more money than a superbowl winner you'd only have to take third place in The International). I suspect that we'll see Esports taking over physical sports in terms of numbers in the next decade or so.
- IsTom 12y ago
  Are there any reliable reports about size of LoL? All I've seen is Riot-made infographics without any backing. On the other hand http://steamcharts.com/app/570 http://steamcharts.com/app/570 seems trustworthy.
- tprynn 12y ago
  I agree that Riot could do more with the spectator experience, but you should be careful comparing Valve's International profits with Riot's Championship Series. For one, the cost of Riot's esports push encompasses the entire scene, around the world. Riot pays player salaries for the players on every professional team in their sponsored series, which have tournaments and matches pretty much every week throughout the year. They have these series in North America, Europe, South America, SE Asia, Korea, China, and Australia, each with many teams of five players each. So, with an armchair estimation, it's easy to see how just the cost of those salaries without any benefits could be in the tens of millions. Then you have to factor in the support staff, facilities, equipment, travel, and much more. Valve sponsors one single tournament a year, and offsets the cost by selling interactive features. Ultimately, they are just different models and I think both could learn from each other.
waterlesscloud 12y ago
E-sports betting is where the real money making opportunity is. Of course, finding the way to do it legally (in the US at least) is the big challenge.
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  It's already started (csgolounge) to get big to mixed results- very popular but also very controversial.
  - bigdubs 12y ago
    There actually is kind of a history with betting and CS; the meme "bet t all" and a picture of a swat policeman petting a cat references this. Basically pre-round or mid round you could bet some of your in game currency on a side winning. This let you recoup lost money which you could use to buy guns etc. the next round. I always thought it was just a fun addition to the game but if you did it real time, round by round, with real money it could be cool too.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
sciguy77 12y ago
I've been to LoL HQ and talked to the founders. The offices were fairly dungeon-esque (to be fair I mostly saw the lower levels), but all the employees seemed to be having a blast. I asked one of the founders about LoL being considered a sport, and he argued fairly aggressively in favor of it. He asked me if I considered NASCAR a sport. I said no, and the conversation ended there.
- buerkle 12y ago
  I never considered car racing much of a sport until I drove an indy style car with Mario Andretti Racing Experience. 8 minutes on the track driving 160mph with about 6-7 other cars was mentally and physically exhausting. Had an absolute blast and afterwards a much greater respect for car racing.
Kiro 12y ago
LoL and DotA seem to be the same game except that you can't deny in LoL, making it more casual. Am I wrong?
- MrJagil 12y ago
  That is not a very substantive comment. Seems like you're just baiting for a flame war.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - Igglyboo 12y ago
      Maybe about the casual part but saying that the only difference is denying is complete wrong, they have extremely differing meta games and mechanics. LoL has an MMORPG element to it with character progression(runes, summoner abilities etc.)Dota has no such element, every player is even the second the game begins, prior games do not impact future games.
      - Natsu 12y ago
        To be fair, this pretty much ends after you have basic rune pages and hit level 30. I mean, ok, maybe you don't have the perfect runes because mana runes were good on Ryze (and terrible on every other champ) or something, but even with max rune pages, you can't really account for every champ very well (and believe me, I've tried, as I ARAM with everyone...)
        Igglyboo 12y ago
        That's still a decent time investment, also in league you don't even have access to all the heroes without a huge time/money investment, everything other than player skill is even in dota.
        12y ago

100 points by murtali 12y ago

KhalilK 12y ago

Funny how LoL is what got me into programming (Lua).

heyheyhey 12y ago
SC:BW got me into programming. Rigging UMS maps with triggers that only I knew of...ahh good times.
- diminoten 12y ago
  Oddly enough, battle.net itself is what got me into computers. There was a vibrant hacking community that existed back in the day, and watching all those older kids do cool stuff got me interested in software.
- austinz 12y ago
  When I was in middle school, I thought SC's trigger-based map editor was the most amazing thing ever. I even built a four-mission mini campaign that I showed my friends, who promptly told me that it sucked. (It was actually pretty terrible, although fun to make.) That, and collecting UMS maps and putting them on my GeoCities page.
- duskwuff 12y ago
  The incredible part is, DotA started out as a Warcraft 3 custom map. Hell, there's still a version being maintained by the developers at Valve which largely maintains feature parity with DotA 2.
forrestthewoods 12y ago
How is that? Is LoL moddable via Lua? Very curious what you did exactly!
- meotai 12y ago
  Not sure if that was sarcasm. In case you're genuinely interested; scripting/hacking/cheating. Instant Kass pentakill...
- KhalilK 12y ago
  is LoL moddable vi Lua? Oh yeah! I don't know about now though, it sure used to be. I didn't do anything fancy, just some basic bot automation and a couple miscellaneous chatbox-based addons (mostly for spamming) but it got me learning Lua. Edit: Looks like LoL is still moddable via Lua[0] 0.http://leaguebot.net/ http://leaguebot.net/
  - tokenizerrr 12y ago
    Is that officially allowed? Or do you risk a ban by using a tool like that? I'm guessing it's not since it's a paid product?
    - dylz 12y ago
      It's a cheat. Bannable.
dethstar 12y ago
I used to play Tibia when I was around 12-15 and I started hosting my own server, since I wanted to make some unique quests for the people that used my server I started modifying Lua files then writing some of my own. To me it always read like plain English (and English isn't my mother language). In fact I'd say I even learnt some English from reserved words (like If).

cjslep 12y ago

Their commitment to community is what really kept me hooked in the early years. Nikita (Nikasaur) interacting with the fan-made material was really cool. Having staff interact with players (ex Shurelia) in a way that isn't constrained (like CCP Games and EVE) also kept me playing unlike any other sort of marketing technique. It all ultimately inspired me to enter into their first community contest (LoL Logo Lookout photo), and it is the only public contest I've ever entered online. Last I heard those entries are still hanging in the office somewhere. I no longer play, as I got sensible about my time. But really, their commitment to their community is something I still respect from the opposite coast.

jokoon 12y ago

I played long hours of counter strike, warcraft 3, wow, quake, starcraft 2, and I never liked the original dota map nor LoL. I just think it's a bad mix of several games. The level format doesn't make a lot of sense. It has the disadvantages of a RTS while being some sort of a RPG (little or no persistence), doesn't have a solo mode, and doesn't even allow to control more than 1 unit. It's slow and boring. The content is quite ugly and the gameplay comes straight out of wc3. The creep system is weird, unusual and just irrational. LoL is a frank success because other games failed to capitalize on esport. But LoL is not a game I like to play at all. I wish that in the future companies like id, valve and blizzard will be able to better orient their quality game towards more esport while satisfying gamers from all spectrums: the casual gamers like the one who like to spend time doing matches. Blizzard found a great balance between the two, but to me there's so much more to be done.

greatergoodguy 12y ago
An important attribute of an e-sport is that it should be entertaining to watch. Since LoL is a game where a player controls a single unit, it's easy to follow along for the spectator.
- jokoon 12y ago
  I certainly want to also enjoy playing it, just watching it is not going to be very entertaining to me.
  - greatergoodguy 12y ago
    I want you to enjoy playing it also.
  - thret 12y ago
    You may enjoy watching this heroic catapult. Incredible pathing win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urYeLZ2uk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urYeLZ2uk0
  - Semaphor 12y ago

h43z 12y ago

What I like about LoL is that it combines the right amout of knowledge, skill, tactics and teamwork to be successful. You can get into the game quite quickly and have fun on a lower level but also play it intensivly without reaching any kind of horizon because the game constantly changes. And riot also provides you with an api https://developer.riotgames.com/ https://developer.riotgames.com/

Cyranix 12y ago

I no longer play, but I still watch the pro teams from time to time. One of the things that has impressed me the most about Riot's approach has been their willingness to make dramatic modifications to core game mechanics in an effort to keep games exciting for both players and spectators. An example that indicates the difference between last year's world championship games and this year's is the ward system. Wards are items that a player can place near their current location, invisible to the enemy team, to gain vision into the fog of war, which is vital for decreasing risk in map-wide coordinated team strategies. Under the old system, pro teams often bogged down during the mid- and late-game phases as they vied for map vision superiority, and the only viable strategy was to purchase as many of the superior ward type (pink, with green being inferior) as possible and equip at least one player with a long-term ability to see invisible elements. Under the new system, both green and pink wards are valuable — the former are invisible to enemies and time-limited, the latter are visible to enemies but can detect invisible elements and are not time-limited — and all players have access to a periodic ability to place an extra ward or shut down enemy wards. As a result, the action in this year's matches has been much more consistent, as teams can still angle for vision control without losing momentum. Just today, I saw some rough notes (http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/9dG0ndq0-rough-notes-pbe http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gamepla...) on changes being tested in public beta. The scope of changes is massive! Starting stats, behavior of towers, and the range of temporary buffs are all on the table for a major revamp. It would be really easy for Riot to resist improving their game under the excuse of "this is the way we've always done it", but they continue to push and innovate from within. A great example of keeping a startup mentality alive within an established company! ===== On another note more closely related to the posted article: for anyone that doesn't already watch pro-level League of Legends and is interested based on this article, you can follow the remainder of the current world championship matches through http://na.lolesports.com http://na.lolesports.com — the next best-of-five between two Samsung-sponsored teams should be very exciting. Past matches are available via http://na.lolesports.com/vods/league/worlds http://na.lolesports.com/vods/league/worlds and I would highly recommend the Fnatic vs. OMG game from the group stages (direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O345c46mFqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O345c46mFqY).

sliverstorm 12y ago

jjcm 12y ago

While LoL is by far the more popular game, I find what Valve is doing with Dota to be more interesting. They're heavily investing in the spectator portion of the sport, and it's paying off in spades. They've added in the ability to watch replays, see instant-replays during live games (especially useful when the casters miss a battle off screen), see post-battle stats, and view player analytics all in-client. The article mentions that Riot lost money in hosting The World Championship, but during The International (the Dota 2 equivalent), Valve made over $30 million from selling interactive playbills for the tournament. Twitch has become a huge part of the events as well, but I think it's telling that Valve is strategically moving forward with trying to make viewing the game just as important as playing the game. Esports as a spectator sport is definitely going to become much bigger moving forward (LoL's World Championship already has more viewers than baseball's World Series, and in Dota 2 to win more money than a superbowl winner you'd only have to take third place in The International). I suspect that we'll see Esports taking over physical sports in terms of numbers in the next decade or so.

IsTom 12y ago
Are there any reliable reports about size of LoL? All I've seen is Riot-made infographics without any backing. On the other hand http://steamcharts.com/app/570 http://steamcharts.com/app/570 seems trustworthy.
tprynn 12y ago
I agree that Riot could do more with the spectator experience, but you should be careful comparing Valve's International profits with Riot's Championship Series. For one, the cost of Riot's esports push encompasses the entire scene, around the world. Riot pays player salaries for the players on every professional team in their sponsored series, which have tournaments and matches pretty much every week throughout the year. They have these series in North America, Europe, South America, SE Asia, Korea, China, and Australia, each with many teams of five players each. So, with an armchair estimation, it's easy to see how just the cost of those salaries without any benefits could be in the tens of millions. Then you have to factor in the support staff, facilities, equipment, travel, and much more. Valve sponsors one single tournament a year, and offsets the cost by selling interactive features. Ultimately, they are just different models and I think both could learn from each other.

waterlesscloud 12y ago

E-sports betting is where the real money making opportunity is. Of course, finding the way to do it legally (in the US at least) is the big challenge.

Omniusaspirer 12y ago
It's already started (csgolounge) to get big to mixed results- very popular but also very controversial.
- bigdubs 12y ago
  There actually is kind of a history with betting and CS; the meme "bet t all" and a picture of a swat policeman petting a cat references this. Basically pre-round or mid round you could bet some of your in game currency on a side winning. This let you recoup lost money which you could use to buy guns etc. the next round. I always thought it was just a fun addition to the game but if you did it real time, round by round, with real money it could be cool too.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

sciguy77 12y ago

I've been to LoL HQ and talked to the founders. The offices were fairly dungeon-esque (to be fair I mostly saw the lower levels), but all the employees seemed to be having a blast. I asked one of the founders about LoL being considered a sport, and he argued fairly aggressively in favor of it. He asked me if I considered NASCAR a sport. I said no, and the conversation ended there.

buerkle 12y ago
I never considered car racing much of a sport until I drove an indy style car with Mario Andretti Racing Experience. 8 minutes on the track driving 160mph with about 6-7 other cars was mentally and physically exhausting. Had an absolute blast and afterwards a much greater respect for car racing.

Kiro 12y ago

LoL and DotA seem to be the same game except that you can't deny in LoL, making it more casual. Am I wrong?

MrJagil 12y ago
That is not a very substantive comment. Seems like you're just baiting for a flame war.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    Maybe about the casual part but saying that the only difference is denying is complete wrong, they have extremely differing meta games and mechanics. LoL has an MMORPG element to it with character progression(runes, summoner abilities etc.)Dota has no such element, every player is even the second the game begins, prior games do not impact future games.
    - Natsu 12y ago
      To be fair, this pretty much ends after you have basic rune pages and hit level 30. I mean, ok, maybe you don't have the perfect runes because mana runes were good on Ryze (and terrible on every other champ) or something, but even with max rune pages, you can't really account for every champ very well (and believe me, I've tried, as I ARAM with everyone...)
      - Igglyboo 12y ago
        That's still a decent time investment, also in league you don't even have access to all the heroes without a huge time/money investment, everything other than player skill is even in dota.
        12y ago