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The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home
- bambax 12y agoWhat does it mean to sell a machine the sole purpose of which is to exploit a "legal loophole"? Can't the machine be made illegal the minute it's available to the public? You can't sell all the ingredients, tools and instructions to build a meth lab ("Breaking Bad in a Box"!) so what's so different with a gun?
- NoMoreNicksLeft 12y agoThe regulations that make it impossible to sell a DIY meth lab also make kid's chemistry sets neutered pieces of crap. Meth should be legal and sold out of liquor stores to anyone 21 or older anyway. And while I don't condone tweakers cooking it in the trailer park, I see no reason why one shouldn't be allowed to do that chemistry if they're careful and take proper precautions.
- Trisell 12y agoIt is not exploiting a loop hole. Federal law allows for the building of guns in the privacy of ones home. Just because this individual has decided to use this to make a gun, does that mean that we should outlaw all 3d milling devices because some of them make guns? People have been building 80% lowers for years, without any background check, as the ATF does not consider it to be a weapon. All one needs is a drill press. Should we outlaw drill presses because they can be used to make a gun less then 1% of the time. Despite all of the other uses of a drill press? Also the difference between a gun and your meth example is that meth manufacturing is illegal in all capacities. The private manufacturing of a firearm is not considered illegal, as long as you do not sell that firearm that you have created.
- drcube 12y agoIt's not an "AR-15 lower receiver maker". It's a cheap CNC mill you can do an infinite number of useful things with. Should high quality printers be illegal because you can make counterfeit bills with it? Or is the potential for harm an incidental part of any useful device? You can stab someone with a knife, but they're pretty handy for chopping food, too.
- bryanlarsen 12y agoIt is illegal to sell high quality printers that print currency, or at least sufficient pressure has been applied to printer makers so that their printers refuse to print currency. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/projects/currency/ http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/projects/currency/
- schoen 12y agoI'm pretty sure that it's a matter of "sufficient pressure" and not legislation in this case, at least in most jurisdictions.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- hga 12y agoMeth is illegal, full stop. Guns are not, that "legal loophole" is referred to by others as the Constitution, which makes gun manufacturing subject to laws and regulations, but not bans in the US.
- meepmorp 12y ago> ... the Constitution, which makes gun manufacturing subject to laws and regulations, but not bans in the US. I don't know if this is actually true. The right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the second amendment, but its a bit of a stretch to say that includes manufacturing of arms.
- hga 12y agoSo the government could ban the manufacture and importation of printers, printer parts, radio and TV transmitters, etc. etc., indirectly negating the rights of free speech and the press? Nope, that's not how it works.
- declan 12y agoWell put. If Right X is a fundamental constitutional right, as the Second Amendment is according to the U.S. Supreme Court, then laws designed to restrict your ability to acquire the materials required to exercise Right X should be subjected to heightened scrutiny. I'm not aware of a 2A case on point regarding firearm manufacturing (others may know more), perhaps because the federal Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act offered sufficient protection. I am aware of a case on point regarding selling firearms. Earlier this year, Chicago's ban on selling firearms was ruled unconstitutional: http://www.volokh.com/2014/01/06/firearm-may-sold-acquired-otherwise-transferred-within-chicago-except-inheritance/ http://www.volokh.com/2014/01/06/firearm-may-sold-acquired-o... This makes sense if you think about it. The First Amendment right to freedom of the press wouldn't mean much if the Feds can levy a 10,000% tax on newsprint. Which is why the Supreme Court has held that such taxes violate the First Amendment: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=460&invol=575 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vo...
- ctdonath 12y agoWrong analogy by far. Owning and/or making your own "AR15 lower" is legal (your local jurisdiction may vary, but for point of discussion...). Meth 100% isn't. The legal nuance addressed by this machine is: if you (as private individual, or as industry manufacturer) make an "AR15 lower" for sale, you must register the manufactured part with the government ... but if you make it for your own use (to wit: not for sale), you don't have to register it. Those wanting "unregistered guns" could make an "AR15 lower" out of a block of steel, at home, for personal use, and be completely legal. YES, you can sell a CNC machine, block of steel[1], tools, and instructions to build a gun. Surprise: guns are legal in the USA, and you're allowed to make one for yourself without registering it (some jurisdictional limitations may apply, but the general point is absolutely true). [1] - Hobbyists strained the limits of what constitutes "make" and "block of steel" (what if it's cut to the exact outer dimensions? what if I drill a hole? how close to the final shape constitutes "not made"?); the government ruled that doing 80% of the work required to convert a block of steel into an "AR15 lower" was as far as you could go and the object still not legally considered an "AR15 lower" (any farther and it may be incomplete but close enough to be considered a gun). This machine takes an "80% AR15 lower" and finishes the work.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago> ill your own lower receiver at home, however, and you can order the rest of the parts from online gun shops, creating a semi-automatic weapon with no serial number, obtained with no background check, no waiting period Besides the 6 months it takes to learn to make one that won't blow up in your face when you pull the trigger? Alarmist drivel.
- krapp 12y agoYeah... it's not as if proper guns are hard to come by in the US. If it were possible, guns would be sold in vending machines.
- shiftpgdn 12y agoMore like an afternoon on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiHdV5slQps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiHdV5slQps
- hga 12y agoWhile I haven't learned this in detail (I loathe the AR10/AR15 design), I gather it's quite a bit easier than that, e.g. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/learn/ http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/learn/ Maybe six months if you're busy with a lot of other things. And of course a fair amount of mechanical aptitude is required, if you're learning that from scratch or nearly so (not the case for many of us in flyover country), it could indeed take quite a while. And more than a few ruined parts.
- RyJones 12y agoI agree the article is alarmist drivel, but you greatly overestimate the difficulty of assembling a lower. Furthermore, there is pretty much no way to misassemble one in a way that would cause an explosion.
- viggity 12y agoIf you were making the barrel from scratch as opposed to buying off the shelf, yeah, it might blow up in your face. But that is the part prone to catastrophic failure. People have been making lowers out of HDPE (plastic) and it works just fine, it doesn't need to contain combustion, just hold all the parts together.
- mercwear 12y agoI have to agree with the initial comment on the article, this is a fear mongering piece. Anyone that has a working knowledge of firearms can put together a usable weapon using readily available parts. In fact, a trip to home depot is all you need in order to build a crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun. I also think it goes without saying that a criminal would probably opt to spend the $1,200 required to buy this CNC device on a weapon (or weapons) that have already been assembled.
- drzaiusapelord 12y agoNot to mention, its been trivial to build "zip guns" with basic tools. Crude pistols aren't that tough to make, especially when the heavy lifting (making of reliable and safe ammo) is already done for you.
- diydsp 12y ago>> crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun > "zip guns" This helps people make a fully automatic machine gun, an AR-15, not a single-shot gun.
- hga 12y agoNo, it takes a semi-auto 80% receiver and finished the remaining 20%. (And after that, "Some assembly is required," e.g http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/learn/ http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/learn/ .) But if you want to be concerned, look at how utterly simple a full auto (simpler that way, e.g. firing pin is a bump in the bolt face) 9mm Sten gun is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten (A semi-auto AR15 is a much more capable weapon, BTW.)
- angersock 12y agoWhat's darkly funny to me is that those things are illegal. Perhaps the biggest event in favor of keeping such weapons outlawed was the North Hollywood shootout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout, basically IRL Payday), and yet only two people--the robbers--were killed!
- infinity0 12y ago$1200 machine that can print arbitrary metal objects and the journalist focuses on a gun? What is wrong with you people...
- NoMoreNicksLeft 12y agoIt's a mill. Doesn't "print", it's a subtractive process... give it a block of metal and it cuts away the pieces you don't want.
- wlesieutre 12y agoBecause that's what the machine is designed for, as advertised by Defense Distributed? It's not like Wired has never talked about general purpose CNC mills before.
- krapp 12y agoThe journalist focused on the purpose for which the machine was built, which is expressly making parts for guns.
- exDM69 12y ago> $1200 machine that can print arbitrary metal objects It's nothing like that. This specifically designed to drill holes in gun parts and do only that. CNC mills and metal 3d printers do exist but they are quite a bit more expensive than this.
- metafex 12y agoIs this thing really a $1200 CNC-mill? What are the dimensions it takes? Also, materials, aluminium only? This thing could be really nice for hobby projects (not gun related, that is).
- exDM69 12y agoNo, it is not a general purpose CNC mill. It is specifically designed for the task of making the receiver parts from almost ready but non-functional gun pieces ("80% receivers"). It might be adaptable something else but it wasn't designed for that.
- Sn1PeR 12y agoOr I could buy ~12+ lower receivers...
- buro9 12y agoThis looks awesome. For $1,200 you could set up as a company making little things for others, earn enough to pay for the machine and then benefit from it yourself. What I would do with such a machine is to solve the problem of bike accessories and mounts. i.e. every light has a different mount, as do GPS devices, and cameras, and bag attachments. Yet you could manufacture some common clamp, and then adaptors for each thing. Perhaps standardise around something like the GoPro bracket for an even wider market (it would allow flashes and other accessories to be mounted using existing GoPro segments). There's so many things you can do. And they make a gun! Who cares about guns! It's all the other stuff that make this awesome.
- chromaton 12y agoThis machine is likely to have a very low machining speed due to weak motors and other motion components. You are unlikely to be able to out-compete a professional machine shop making small parts. So while this is nice for hobbyists, it is unlikely to pay for itself in a professional situation. If you want a machine to pay for itself and be more generally useful, you would be better off spending the money on a Chinese manual milling machine.
- discardorama 12y agoHowever: consider the time taken to hunt around for a machine shop; the latency (when the machine shop can actually schedule you in); things like "business hours", etc. and suddenly this machine may become competitive with suitable automation.
- chromaton 12y agoI had been through exactly that a number of times before starting a business where you can order custom parts online 24/7.
- Someone1234 12y agoI want to do a similar project but for car dashboards. Much like bike accessories we're always buying things like phone holders, fan holders, or CB radio handset holders. But these things never attach to the dashboard well because they depend on suction cups or clips to the vent grate (which aren't standard anyway). All car dashboards should come with a 1/4-20 inch screw thread. Maybe two, one of the driver's side and a second for the front passenger. Then to accessorize your car, you just buy a simple cellphone clip which screws in. The nice part about 1/4-20 is that it is already used for a ton of stuff (i.e. anything tripod compatible), so there are already accessories on the market for that screw size.
- viggity 12y agoI'm very much a libertarian, pro-gun kind of guy and I'm glad this project project exists, but I do have to say I'm reluctant about it. There isn't really anything (that I can see) that can stop this movement. I abhor gun registries and most restrictions on firearms but I'm glad that there is at least a small hurdle to acquiring a firearm (purchase permits). Hopefully the trend towards more and more CCW holders increases as responsible people carrying guns will be a big line of defense against crazy people. See: http://www.reddit.com/r/dgu http://www.reddit.com/r/dgu for a sampling of recent defensive gun uses, it is a very common occurance.
- RyJones 12y agoI don't know what a purchase permit is. In Washington, Oregon, and Idaho guns are cash and carry.
- molecules 12y agoMichigan use to require a purchase permit for pistols. You had to go to the Michigan State Police, take a little quiz, and they would issue you a purchase permit. The permit had an expiration date. You bought the pistol with the permit and then had to take the pistol back to the police station for a safety check.
- RyJones 12y agoI'm glad I haven't lived with these shenanigans.
- comrh 12y agoMost states require only a driver license to buy a rifle, no purchase permit required.
- thisjepisje 12y agoSo... it's a CNC machining apparatus? Why are people making such a fuss about that?
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- kelvin0 12y agoDon't even need a CNC machine (or any hi tech device) to build lethal automatic weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinRqCocwGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinRqCocwGE Craftsmanship, experience and raw materials only are needed.
- mentos 12y agoI'm pretty sure the lethal part of the equation isn't metal receivers but gun powder and bullets. Why aren't we limiting the sale of bullets (explosives)? edit: Chris Rock said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA
- hga 12y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United... Except for some "slave states" as I've taken to calling them, you can buy ammo mail order, often with a statement of age or perhaps a photocopy of your drivers license. Powder, bullets, cases and primers by mail, although there may be limits to the amount of powder you can hold before the BATF wants a license, safe(r) storage, etc. And similarly your local fire department prefers or may demand limits. And this stuff is stable, lasts a long time. My father has several 25 pound casks of powder he or his father bought before or after WWII that he's still reloading from, and ammo manufactured in WWII is still being used (although a lot of it has corrosive primers, requiring much more thorough cleaning).
- beachstartup 12y agoyou can get ammo shipped to most cities in CA. notable exception is LA (city proper).
- mentos 12y agois taxing ammunition unconstitutional?
- hga 12y agoAbsolutely not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Fede... ~ 10% is fine (although those of us who don't hunt want more ranges built with this money, which is happening). Amount that are clearly so much they're intended to hamper access are unconstitutional. Ones that are structured differently have been held unconstitutional: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=460&invol=575 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vo...
- alricb 12y agoThe main reason this allows you to build an AR-style rifle is that US firearms law focuses on receivers (per U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3), which are in many cases quite easy to manufacture. For instance, many Kalashnikov receivers are made of stamped sheet metal. The pressure-bearing parts, like the barrel or the bolt, are much harder to manufacture, at least for rifles. Most European countries will therefore regulate these, but they won't necessarily regulate ancillary parts like receivers or stocks. AFAIK, a full-auto AR receiver, which is highly regulated in the US, is treated as nothing more than a chunk of metal under UK law (as long as you don't illegally assemble it with a barrel and other parts). [I was wrong; according to the 9th report of the Firearms Consultative Comity, Annex D, receivers are controlled as "component parts"]
- Someone1234 12y agoPlus the way the law is structured in the UK, you cannot out-clever it. It is a "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."-type of law. So for example, a farmer (without a firearm licence) tired of people stealing created a trap, a thick cardboard tube, hung on a string pointed at the doorway, set to ignite and shoot shrapnel when the door was opened. The farmer winds up forgetting about his trap and sets it off injuring himself. He was charged with having an illegal firearm because even though it was something he built himself, it was still similar enough to a gun to be considered one.
- fragmede 12y ago> Plus the way the law is structured in the UK, you cannot out-clever it. Funny, that. The US has a similar on the books with regard to drugs - the Federal Analog Act -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act - if some compound is "chemically similar" to a schedule I or II drug, then it can be treated as if it were also on those schedules.
- stevemck 12y agoGuns scare the shit out of me. When I grew up in Australia where there is basically no guns. I used to walk on streets even on a drunken Friday / Saturday night without fear. I moved to the US a few years ago and since then every corner I turn, I see people and I worry. I don't worry about getting robbed. No. I worry about a gun fight somewhere and a stray bullet hits me. I worry that someone drunk might hold me at gunpoint and at a moment of misjudgement he/she shoots me. It is pretty hard to get killed by being punched. On the other hand, it is pretty easy to lose your mind for a second and shoot someone I hate this project, because now the barrier to entry of owning a unregistered gun is so much lower
- jonifico 12y agoTotally agree. Particularly since US citizens are so obsessed with guns and violence. I mean, look at all the shootings and massacres happening, by people of all ages and races, it's crazy! Couldn't stand living in a society like that where everyone's allowed and legally motivated to keep guns.
- skrowl 12y agoAll of the mass shootings in the US have occurred in "gun free zones" (for example schools) where law-abiding people can't legally bring guns. Regardless of what your TV told you, non-law-enforcement people in the US can't legally walk into a school with a gun. As it turns out, criminals don't really care where they can legally bring guns and will happily walk past a "NO GUNS ALLOWED HERE!" sign. When gun grabbing legislation is passed, it only hurts law-abiding people, not criminals. Criminals will still get and use guns whenever they'd like.
- twothamendment 12y agoRegardless of what you write, there are non-law-enforcement people in the US who can legally walk into school with a gun. I don't know about every state, but in Utah if you have a permit to conceal, you are good to go in a school.
- cpwright 12y agoMother Jones did a story on this a while ago, and I was under the impression that if you had a drill press it would be enough to get an 80% receiver usable. Either way, I'm glad Defense Distributed is moving the ball forward on this issue. Edit to add: This company makes plastic ones that a drill, chisel, and Dremel are enough to finish, no CNC machine necessary. http://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/ep80-ar15-rifle-lower-at-home-with-common-tools/#axzz3EuOmGCCg http://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/ep80-ar15-rifle-lower-at-hom...
- InfiniteRand 12y agoThere is a potential here for there to be a change similar to the 18th century. Suddenly, non-governmental forces or fledgling governments can quickly equip a lightly armed force. For the last 1-2 centuries you needed a manufacturing infrastructure under your control, but a 3-D printer device like this (if I am understanding the article correctly, and perhaps I am not). In the 18th century, relatively low-cost and reliable rifles became available, and this fundamentally changed the balance between established governments and small armed groups. This changed contributed to the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and the downfall of the Mughal Empire (where small regional rebellions suddenly became more viable and central control began to break down). This period eventually ended in the 19th century, when is debatable, but once you had a gatling gun, a professional heavily armed force could mow down lightly armed forces without large casualties. Chances are this development will be the final word (and certainly it has not had a huge impact yet, so maybe my speculation is premature), eventually there will become some expensive but exceptionally effective weapon only large governments can afford or supply, but 3-D printers making guns could have serious effects on the course of politics and warfare within the next few decades. As the old curse goes, may you live in interesting times...
- na85 12y ago>eventually there will become some expensive but exceptionally effective weapon only large governments can afford or supply This already exists. Ubiquitous air presence via unmanned drones armed with air-to-ground rockets, missiles, or guided bombs. Sometimes I feel like libertarians and NRA types seriously believe that they (a bunch of angry right-wing hunters or whatever) could actually throw off what they feel are the chains of oppression emanating from Washington, if only they could be sufficiently organized and motivated to rise up together. Any serious armed rebellion in the United States would be deftly crushed. I'm not convinced that a peaceful/political rebellion would not be crushed also. The System exists to perpetuate itself.
- rgrieselhuber 12y ago> This already exists. Ubiquitous air presence via unmanned drones armed with air-to-ground rockets, missiles, or guided bombs. Your other comments aside, this actually isn't too far outside the realm of possibility for sufficiently motivated and skilled independent manufacturers. What militaries really have a monopoly on is superior supply chains and logistics. The advanced weaponry is icing on the cake.
- jmscharff2 12y agoI believe that there are laws in place from making the barrel at home. You can make a gun with a lot of the 3d printers as well.
- ctdonath 12y agoThere aren't. It's a long piece of hardened steel with a hole drilled in it and a groove added thereto. No laws prohibit such manufacturing (assuming USA, I haven't so extensively studied such laws of other countries).
- jmscharff2 12y agoI believe that there are laws in place from making the barrel at home. You can make a gun with a lot of the 3d printers as well.
- gao8a 12y agoI wish it could make this into 100% :) http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-receiver http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-r...
- quux 12y agoOr you can do what some people have done and carve an AR-15 receiver out of wood. Making your own receiver isn't really news.
- CapitalistCartr 12y agoThe author has no understanding of CNC machines and didn't do his homework. This is all completely wrong: "Like any computer-numerically-controlled (or CNC) mill, the one-foot-cubed black box uses a drill bit mounted on a head that moves in three dimensions to automatically carve digitally-modeled shapes into polymer, wood or aluminum." CNCs use drill bits for drilling, but not cutting. They use a carbide router bit. Look like a drill bit, but isn't. His machine might use a drill bit, but it's not the norm and "any CNC" doesn't. CNC routers, or mills, divide into those that cut steel and those that cut everything else, not "polymer, wood or aluminum". From this article, I can't tell nearly as much as I'd like to about this machine, and I do this for a living.