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Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

184 points by edwincheese 12y ago

idlewords 12y ago
All this "article" says is that Hong Kong protesters are using two hashtags on twitter, while giving no further information on the nature or purpose of the protests. Much better to read the linked Independent piece: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-protest-why-are-prodemocracy-supporters-staging-a-sitin-9760234.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-prote...
- notjackma 12y ago
  Can you add this live stream to your comment so others can see it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4q8fs8gTIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4q8fs8gTIs The live stream has been covering the whole protest and also shows recaps (picture in picture). Jimmy Lai, who has been seen protesting in a poncho and goggles, owns a media empire in Hong Kong, including the Apple Daily newspaper which runs this YouTube channel. From a tech perspective, they've been running without interruption and they even used a drone, I think a helicopter, to take footage swooping over and around the protestors and police.
  - bendoernberg 12y ago
    This has been, by far, the best produced livestream I've ever seen. Maybe it's just due to stationary locations for some of the cameras and better bandwidth, but it's on another level.
- dang 12y ago
  Thanks. Url changed from http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/28/amid-crackdowns-protestors-in-hong-kong-take-to-tech-to-publicize-occupycentral-and-occupyhk http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/28/amid-crackdowns-protestors-....
HeavenFox 12y ago
As a result, Instagram was blocked in China a couple of hours ago. An unfortunate collateral damage.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Last time OneDrive was blocked. Who knows what will be blocked after this...my money is on CNN.
- barry-cotter 12y ago
  Instagram has been blocked in Shanghai for over a month.
verroq 12y ago
I'm going to be pretty cynical there. China's shown it is willing use force (and bigger army diplomacy) if necessary. Spreading the word about this in China's even more difficult (internet censors). Unless the CCP buckles I can't see HK coming out on top.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  I know and I don't even have a VPN. I'm sure its getting around among those who care. I don't think China will involve the PLA in this; that would cause a huge scare internationally. Instead, they'll just let the HK police deal with it (and they seem to be hard enough). The HK elite basically run the territory and are incredibly friendly to the central government.
  - refurb 12y ago
    I think the outcome of this will be super interesting. HK is now a part of China and I'm sure that the CCP is concerned that these protests will spread to the mainland. My guess is that they will handle this in a very non-public way (no surprise there!) working through the HK authorities. It will be brutal, but the CCP knows what a heavy hand will get them (Tiananmen Square).
    - ivanw237 12y ago
      Unfortunately it's very unlikely this will spread to the mainland. Much different from 1989, 100% of mainstream media in the mainland is heavily censored. They have been brainwashing the last two generations for tens of years. If you go weibo (Chinese version of Twitter) you will see the majority of mainland Chinese think the unarmed students were extremely violent and the police should shoot them. The CCP has been doing very good at creating class conflicts and isolating enemies.
      - verroq 12y ago
        I won't be surprised, self-censorship is rampant in the mainland community.
wyuenho 12y ago
Hongkonger here. I help out with a number of volunteer tech groups in HK, including a few resistance groups. I'm also on the Hong Kong Python User Group committee. We are hoping for the best but would like to prepare for the worst, so I'd like to ask fellow HNers here who have been in similar situations before: what can we expect to encounter in terms of disruptions in communications? Under those situations, how can we counter them with technology? There were rumors that cell towers in certain areas would be shut down, which I don't think happened. The cell network slowdown was more like overloaded cell towers to me. We tried Firechat yesterday and it's terrible. With 100s of people on the same room, it's impossible to follow the feed. It's also very easy to be taken over by CCP spies who just won't stop polluting the room. Is there anything you'd recommend? Thanks HNers in advance. Updated resources on the situations on the ground: http://today.code4.hk/ http://today.code4.hk/
- yetanotherHNacc 12y ago
  You need to power devices and protect said devices. Water will come crashing in eventually so prepare for that. Tends to disrupt communications right quick. Those umbrellas did a bang-up job deflecting spray from police but won't for riot trucks. Apps like Bambuser allow live streaming but also leak details like GPS coordinates if not careful about what settings are turned on. If you end up getting shot at, you don't want to lead aggressors right to you. Malicious people will get users to spread malware, state entities like intel agencies just as well as thieves. People will be looking for 'things' that work, be aware of these 'things' be it a VPN or chat app. You will be monitored via ISP level hardware like activists were in Syria via BlueCoat equipment. Encryption is your friend for anything outside of very public channels. Try to coordinate outside of the most public channels before broadcasting plans widely. Moderation of chat as you mentioned is key, consider setting up chat channels in places that can be moderated like IRC. Having a wide assortment of moderators is good for eyes on the problem, but focus on technical problems like flooders instead of political/social. All but the most aggressive trolls can simply be ignored, they will flame out if not fed. Overall depending on centralized communications is a problem, internet can and will be cut if deemed a problem. Walkie-talkies and other independent devices can help keep crowds coordinated. But really police and intel agencies are in love with the data mobile/internet networks yield. Expect IMSI catchers and other nefarious hardware sniffing communications. edit: Many I knew from Syria no longer exist, don't get shot. That disrupts communications permanently.
tszming 12y ago
Hongkonger here also (now going to out to see the latest situation) For those who want a TLDR: http://www.vox.com/2014/9/28/6856663/hong-kong-democracy-protests-photos http://www.vox.com/2014/9/28/6856663/hong-kong-democracy-pro... Lot of protesters are just TEENAGERS/STUDENTS who want a peaceful protest , and the crazy police are fully armed and used countless tear gas on them. This is going to be one of the largest events in HK history.
- Mikeb85 12y ago
  > Lot of protesters are just TEENAGERS/STUDENTS who want a peaceful protest , and the crazy police are fully armed and used countless tear gas on them. The police must have taken a page from the Ferguson, MO playbook... Or maybe just Occupy Wall St....
  - caycep 12y ago
    Re Ferguson - I hope they didn't take a page from what was clearly one of the most inept police actions in recent history...one would think they were smarter than that.
    - Mikeb85 12y ago
      Yeah of course they're smarter than that. Just pointing out that police over-reaction happens just as much over here as there (at least in the last decade). A few canisters of tear gas and riot gear is hardly unique to HK, pretty much every G8 protest ever is more violent...
Wogef 12y ago
I'm in Shenzhen and we're getting a little news trickling in since there is a lot of back and forth daily traffic. They seem to be making some use of mesh-network (FireChat) for communication: http://www.pingwest.com/firechat-hongkong/?from=timeline&isappinstalled=0 http://www.pingwest.com/firechat-hongkong/?from=timeline&isa... This would also be an ideal scenario for PirateBox. I roll the LibraryBox version on a regular basis for under $20.
asdfologist 12y ago
Honest question: how effective are these sorts of protests in achieving their intended goals? Maybe I'm suffering from confirmation bias, but it seems all the major demonstrations in the last few decades (Tiananmen Square, Iraq War, Occupy Wall Street, post-Iranian election, etc) have sizzled out and failed. The one exception I can think of is the anti-Proposition 8 protests, but Prop 8 was defeated in the courts through routine legal channels (ultimately culminating in the Supreme Court decision on Hollingsworth v. Perry) and it's unclear whether the protests held any sway over the rulings.
- wyuenho 12y ago
  Nobody can predict the future. What I can tell is, this is unprecedented in terms of persistence, organization and scale. All of the resistance just self-organized into multiple areas now. We are very very very upset with the government in Hong Kong right now. More and more people are joining the strike today. There's reason to expect the situation will escalate peacefully, and hope will shine thru. Honestly, justice is on our side, this is the most civilized resistance I've personally participated. We even pick up our own trash after sit-ins!
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  There have been loads of popular demonstrations that have toppled governments recently, from Egypt to Ukraine. Tunisia is one of the few where you could say they have achieved their intended goals though, toppling the government is the easy part.
- JDShu 12y ago
  In my opinion, that's a very good question and one that demonstrators rarely think about. Frankly, and until somebody convinces me otherwise, I think that Occupy Central was and is a strategic failure if the end goal is gain a better form of democracy in Hong Kong. China has shown time and again that it will not back down when things get physical, and in for example, the case of Tiananmen square, the government got more paranoid. So rationally, I don't think it's a good move by the pan-democrats, as it essentially shuts down any possibilities of negotiation - the pan-democrats have very little leverage now that they've already "done their worst". On the other hand, protests are not about strategy and rationality. People strongly believe in their ideals and they want to do something rather than sit around waiting for negotiations that may or may not happen. I can understand that which is why I'm not as quick to criticize the protesters as many in HK would.
rdlecler1 12y ago
This is going to be Tianmen all over again: kill the chicken to scare the monkey. I remember seeing a photo of military vehicles coming into HK a couple weeks ago. If West did little with Russia you can bet they'd do even less with HK.
- yeukhon 12y ago
  > I remember seeing a photo of military vehicles coming into HK a couple weeks ago. FYI, there is a Chinese military base in HK since 1997. So seeing that is not even news. It's a norm.
  - bootload 12y ago
    > Chinese military base in HK since 1997 the drinkbottle? Passed through last week and didn't see anything out of the ordinary.
- usaar333 12y ago
  Highly unlikely for same reasons that the 2003 protests didn't result in a crack down. The rest of the world (especially business) actually cares about Hong Kong. It'd be economic and political suicide to send in troops.
  - rdlecler1 12y ago
    The government backed down in 2003, which is why this could be different. Unlike 2003 when China was still emerging, China is now legitimate and increasingly assertive superpower. China is now much more hawkish than it had been in the past. This is also a new government.
Shad0w59 12y ago
The amount of hyperbole in this thread (and in the protest) is unbelievable. Protesters are quick to talk this up as the next Tiananmen Square when in fact looking at the ground it's nothing like it. You just need to look at Hong Kong culture to see that this is being overblown. It's the HK style, there's no middle ground, it's either the end of the world or nothing worth mentioning. Of course the people have a right to protest but people should really think about what they are doing instead of getting delusional in the name of "freedom". Show some class for once, have a measured response not this circus that is clearly going to end in a terrible car crash. It's already being hijacked by troublemakers.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  Those delusional freedom lovers with their low-class demands for better representation. Next thing you know, they might start looting tea and throwing it in the harbour.
  - Shad0w59 12y ago
    I for one am waiting for the looting of LV and Gucci bags. It's going to be epic.
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      I should probably have laid the sarcasm on a bit thicker.
  - wyuenho 12y ago
    https://twitter.com/HemanChong/status/516383686355202048?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=HemanChong&utm_content=516383686355202048 https://twitter.com/HemanChong/status/516383686355202048?utm...
    - Shad0w59 12y ago
      Now you jinxed it.
    - 12y ago
ant_sz 12y ago
I'm from Chinese mainland, a student at Shanghai.there is not even a piece of information about this leaked to the mainstream media. many of my classmates managed to get information from multiple sources but more have no idea what happened. it's quite strange that the blocking turns a political event into a technical one. I'm not a 100% supporter for the protest, but I extremely dislike the government's passion of blocking everying. it makes me feel hopeless in the country knowing more and more interesting things are becoming far away from us.
- coupdejarnac 12y ago
  From what I've gathered, even protests within mainland China do not make the news there. Unless the protests involve Uighurs or the Japanese embassy. I lived in Beijing from 2004 to 2006, and during my time there a bunch of websites became blocked, including Wikipedia. It drove me nuts.
  - madaxe_again 12y ago
    They do occasionally - see last week's "terrorist attack" in Xinjiang.
- khc 12y ago
  I've seen screenshots of mainland media reporting the event as a massive celebration: https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10679979_10154614463520654_5806727090948545727_o.jpg https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/106...
  - zby 12y ago
    That is not too bad - they'll probably not deploy army to crush celebrations after all. By the way - there is a great democratic potential in play: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201105/how-hunter-gatherers-maintained-their-egalitarian-ways http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201105/how...
- gurkendoktor 12y ago
Guthur 12y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_and_the_Occupy_movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_and_the_Occupy_... ...in case people forget about the clean up needed in their own backyard first.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
contingencies 12y ago
Mainland-resident here. Been in and out of HK since 1998. Usually only a few days. However, a FOAF is a just out of jail old-school dissident in Hong Kong. I can see why people are protesting: partly its the want to stay independent, partly it's fear of the steadily increasingly mainland presence - not just in government, but people. Regular HK'ers are studying Mandarin (very different from their more historically significant and representative dialect, Cantonese) and aiming to do mainland business. My main observation would be: heard about it from foreigners, got bugger-all details from purely foreign media, saw no mention in mainland media (which, to be fair, I rarely see). So just to confirm: there is zero coverage in the mainland, and not much elsewhere as far as I've seen. Anyway: good luck Hong Kong, you have a really unique situation in which you can exercise your rights. Make it worthwhile.
crazychrome 12y ago
I feel sad for HK. A protest led by teenagers? Where are the adults? If these teenagers were devised, where are their parents? Do they have any idea whom they are fighting against, fighting for? Shame on all HK adults.
jakartaposs 12y ago
In 1998,the Indonesian students stage a mass protest to demand what was then thought impossible and insane. They demanded that president Soeharto step down, the end to the military rule, and a free democratic election. After the students face real bullies and tanks, they finally bought down a 32 year old regime and a president once considered one of Asia strongman. In 2014 this year, Indonesia was internationally (UN) acclaimed to held the largest (150 million voters) and free direct presidential election ( 1 man 1 vote). The winner is mr jokowi who is from an ordinary background, non- millitary and not from any elite families. In a Democracy, NOTHING is Impossible. However, reforms need to take place before it can really happen. BLood, tears , time and sadly lives are the cost for it. When the hk students is face with ak47 from the PLA and stood their grounds, only then they can claim they are willing to “die for democracy”. Only then the hk students can say they are In the same league as the “tiananmen students”. I will also like to remind the hk students that the students at tiananmen 89, jakarta 98, Tunisia 12, Ukraine 14 did not wear googles, as nothing can stop a bullets from a automatic rifle. If you are all having second thought, then. I suggest that you guys go home and maybe come back next year. The world are watching and waiting to see if the cute hk students are really the “legendary” Chinese students at tiaanmen who let PLA tanks roll on them and haunts your communist leaders till now.
xster 12y ago
It's also fairly well documented that not unlike Mossadegh etc, CIA branch-offs like NED and NDI are openly funding Uyghur "East Turkistan" and "Occupy Central" etc https://www.ndi.org/hong-kong-designing%20democracy https://www.ndi.org/hong-kong-designing%20democracy http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-openly-approves-hong-kong-chaos-it-created/5405387 http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-openly-approves-hong-kong-ch...
- twelvechairs 12y ago
  Globalresearch is trash http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky

184 points by edwincheese 12y ago

All this "article" says is that Hong Kong protesters are using two hashtags on twitter, while giving no further information on the nature or purpose of the protests. Much better to read the linked Independent piece: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-protest-why-are-prodemocracy-supporters-staging-a-sitin-9760234.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-prote...

notjackma 12y ago
Can you add this live stream to your comment so others can see it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4q8fs8gTIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4q8fs8gTIs The live stream has been covering the whole protest and also shows recaps (picture in picture). Jimmy Lai, who has been seen protesting in a poncho and goggles, owns a media empire in Hong Kong, including the Apple Daily newspaper which runs this YouTube channel. From a tech perspective, they've been running without interruption and they even used a drone, I think a helicopter, to take footage swooping over and around the protestors and police.
- bendoernberg 12y ago
  This has been, by far, the best produced livestream I've ever seen. Maybe it's just due to stationary locations for some of the cameras and better bandwidth, but it's on another level.
dang 12y ago
Thanks. Url changed from http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/28/amid-crackdowns-protestors-in-hong-kong-take-to-tech-to-publicize-occupycentral-and-occupyhk http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/28/amid-crackdowns-protestors-....

HeavenFox 12y ago

As a result, Instagram was blocked in China a couple of hours ago. An unfortunate collateral damage.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Last time OneDrive was blocked. Who knows what will be blocked after this...my money is on CNN.
barry-cotter 12y ago
Instagram has been blocked in Shanghai for over a month.

verroq 12y ago

I'm going to be pretty cynical there. China's shown it is willing use force (and bigger army diplomacy) if necessary. Spreading the word about this in China's even more difficult (internet censors). Unless the CCP buckles I can't see HK coming out on top.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
I know and I don't even have a VPN. I'm sure its getting around among those who care. I don't think China will involve the PLA in this; that would cause a huge scare internationally. Instead, they'll just let the HK police deal with it (and they seem to be hard enough). The HK elite basically run the territory and are incredibly friendly to the central government.
- refurb 12y ago
  I think the outcome of this will be super interesting. HK is now a part of China and I'm sure that the CCP is concerned that these protests will spread to the mainland. My guess is that they will handle this in a very non-public way (no surprise there!) working through the HK authorities. It will be brutal, but the CCP knows what a heavy hand will get them (Tiananmen Square).
  - ivanw237 12y ago
    Unfortunately it's very unlikely this will spread to the mainland. Much different from 1989, 100% of mainstream media in the mainland is heavily censored. They have been brainwashing the last two generations for tens of years. If you go weibo (Chinese version of Twitter) you will see the majority of mainland Chinese think the unarmed students were extremely violent and the police should shoot them. The CCP has been doing very good at creating class conflicts and isolating enemies.
    - verroq 12y ago
      I won't be surprised, self-censorship is rampant in the mainland community.

wyuenho 12y ago

Hongkonger here. I help out with a number of volunteer tech groups in HK, including a few resistance groups. I'm also on the Hong Kong Python User Group committee. We are hoping for the best but would like to prepare for the worst, so I'd like to ask fellow HNers here who have been in similar situations before: what can we expect to encounter in terms of disruptions in communications? Under those situations, how can we counter them with technology? There were rumors that cell towers in certain areas would be shut down, which I don't think happened. The cell network slowdown was more like overloaded cell towers to me. We tried Firechat yesterday and it's terrible. With 100s of people on the same room, it's impossible to follow the feed. It's also very easy to be taken over by CCP spies who just won't stop polluting the room. Is there anything you'd recommend? Thanks HNers in advance. Updated resources on the situations on the ground: http://today.code4.hk/ http://today.code4.hk/

yetanotherHNacc 12y ago
You need to power devices and protect said devices. Water will come crashing in eventually so prepare for that. Tends to disrupt communications right quick. Those umbrellas did a bang-up job deflecting spray from police but won't for riot trucks. Apps like Bambuser allow live streaming but also leak details like GPS coordinates if not careful about what settings are turned on. If you end up getting shot at, you don't want to lead aggressors right to you. Malicious people will get users to spread malware, state entities like intel agencies just as well as thieves. People will be looking for 'things' that work, be aware of these 'things' be it a VPN or chat app. You will be monitored via ISP level hardware like activists were in Syria via BlueCoat equipment. Encryption is your friend for anything outside of very public channels. Try to coordinate outside of the most public channels before broadcasting plans widely. Moderation of chat as you mentioned is key, consider setting up chat channels in places that can be moderated like IRC. Having a wide assortment of moderators is good for eyes on the problem, but focus on technical problems like flooders instead of political/social. All but the most aggressive trolls can simply be ignored, they will flame out if not fed. Overall depending on centralized communications is a problem, internet can and will be cut if deemed a problem. Walkie-talkies and other independent devices can help keep crowds coordinated. But really police and intel agencies are in love with the data mobile/internet networks yield. Expect IMSI catchers and other nefarious hardware sniffing communications. edit: Many I knew from Syria no longer exist, don't get shot. That disrupts communications permanently.

tszming 12y ago

Hongkonger here also (now going to out to see the latest situation) For those who want a TLDR: http://www.vox.com/2014/9/28/6856663/hong-kong-democracy-protests-photos http://www.vox.com/2014/9/28/6856663/hong-kong-democracy-pro... Lot of protesters are just TEENAGERS/STUDENTS who want a peaceful protest , and the crazy police are fully armed and used countless tear gas on them. This is going to be one of the largest events in HK history.

Mikeb85 12y ago
> Lot of protesters are just TEENAGERS/STUDENTS who want a peaceful protest , and the crazy police are fully armed and used countless tear gas on them. The police must have taken a page from the Ferguson, MO playbook... Or maybe just Occupy Wall St....
- caycep 12y ago
  Re Ferguson - I hope they didn't take a page from what was clearly one of the most inept police actions in recent history...one would think they were smarter than that.
  - Mikeb85 12y ago
    Yeah of course they're smarter than that. Just pointing out that police over-reaction happens just as much over here as there (at least in the last decade). A few canisters of tear gas and riot gear is hardly unique to HK, pretty much every G8 protest ever is more violent...

Wogef 12y ago

I'm in Shenzhen and we're getting a little news trickling in since there is a lot of back and forth daily traffic. They seem to be making some use of mesh-network (FireChat) for communication: http://www.pingwest.com/firechat-hongkong/?from=timeline&isappinstalled=0 http://www.pingwest.com/firechat-hongkong/?from=timeline&isa... This would also be an ideal scenario for PirateBox. I roll the LibraryBox version on a regular basis for under $20.

asdfologist 12y ago

Honest question: how effective are these sorts of protests in achieving their intended goals? Maybe I'm suffering from confirmation bias, but it seems all the major demonstrations in the last few decades (Tiananmen Square, Iraq War, Occupy Wall Street, post-Iranian election, etc) have sizzled out and failed. The one exception I can think of is the anti-Proposition 8 protests, but Prop 8 was defeated in the courts through routine legal channels (ultimately culminating in the Supreme Court decision on Hollingsworth v. Perry) and it's unclear whether the protests held any sway over the rulings.

wyuenho 12y ago
Nobody can predict the future. What I can tell is, this is unprecedented in terms of persistence, organization and scale. All of the resistance just self-organized into multiple areas now. We are very very very upset with the government in Hong Kong right now. More and more people are joining the strike today. There's reason to expect the situation will escalate peacefully, and hope will shine thru. Honestly, justice is on our side, this is the most civilized resistance I've personally participated. We even pick up our own trash after sit-ins!
lotsofmangos 12y ago
There have been loads of popular demonstrations that have toppled governments recently, from Egypt to Ukraine. Tunisia is one of the few where you could say they have achieved their intended goals though, toppling the government is the easy part.
JDShu 12y ago
In my opinion, that's a very good question and one that demonstrators rarely think about. Frankly, and until somebody convinces me otherwise, I think that Occupy Central was and is a strategic failure if the end goal is gain a better form of democracy in Hong Kong. China has shown time and again that it will not back down when things get physical, and in for example, the case of Tiananmen square, the government got more paranoid. So rationally, I don't think it's a good move by the pan-democrats, as it essentially shuts down any possibilities of negotiation - the pan-democrats have very little leverage now that they've already "done their worst". On the other hand, protests are not about strategy and rationality. People strongly believe in their ideals and they want to do something rather than sit around waiting for negotiations that may or may not happen. I can understand that which is why I'm not as quick to criticize the protesters as many in HK would.

rdlecler1 12y ago

This is going to be Tianmen all over again: kill the chicken to scare the monkey. I remember seeing a photo of military vehicles coming into HK a couple weeks ago. If West did little with Russia you can bet they'd do even less with HK.

yeukhon 12y ago
> I remember seeing a photo of military vehicles coming into HK a couple weeks ago. FYI, there is a Chinese military base in HK since 1997. So seeing that is not even news. It's a norm.
- bootload 12y ago
  > Chinese military base in HK since 1997 the drinkbottle? Passed through last week and didn't see anything out of the ordinary.
usaar333 12y ago
Highly unlikely for same reasons that the 2003 protests didn't result in a crack down. The rest of the world (especially business) actually cares about Hong Kong. It'd be economic and political suicide to send in troops.
- rdlecler1 12y ago
  The government backed down in 2003, which is why this could be different. Unlike 2003 when China was still emerging, China is now legitimate and increasingly assertive superpower. China is now much more hawkish than it had been in the past. This is also a new government.

Shad0w59 12y ago

The amount of hyperbole in this thread (and in the protest) is unbelievable. Protesters are quick to talk this up as the next Tiananmen Square when in fact looking at the ground it's nothing like it. You just need to look at Hong Kong culture to see that this is being overblown. It's the HK style, there's no middle ground, it's either the end of the world or nothing worth mentioning. Of course the people have a right to protest but people should really think about what they are doing instead of getting delusional in the name of "freedom". Show some class for once, have a measured response not this circus that is clearly going to end in a terrible car crash. It's already being hijacked by troublemakers.

lotsofmangos 12y ago
Those delusional freedom lovers with their low-class demands for better representation. Next thing you know, they might start looting tea and throwing it in the harbour.
- Shad0w59 12y ago
  I for one am waiting for the looting of LV and Gucci bags. It's going to be epic.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    I should probably have laid the sarcasm on a bit thicker.
- wyuenho 12y ago
  https://twitter.com/HemanChong/status/516383686355202048?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=HemanChong&utm_content=516383686355202048 https://twitter.com/HemanChong/status/516383686355202048?utm...
  - Shad0w59 12y ago
    Now you jinxed it.
  - 12y ago

ant_sz 12y ago

I'm from Chinese mainland, a student at Shanghai.there is not even a piece of information about this leaked to the mainstream media. many of my classmates managed to get information from multiple sources but more have no idea what happened. it's quite strange that the blocking turns a political event into a technical one. I'm not a 100% supporter for the protest, but I extremely dislike the government's passion of blocking everying. it makes me feel hopeless in the country knowing more and more interesting things are becoming far away from us.

coupdejarnac 12y ago
From what I've gathered, even protests within mainland China do not make the news there. Unless the protests involve Uighurs or the Japanese embassy. I lived in Beijing from 2004 to 2006, and during my time there a bunch of websites became blocked, including Wikipedia. It drove me nuts.
- madaxe_again 12y ago
  They do occasionally - see last week's "terrorist attack" in Xinjiang.
khc 12y ago
I've seen screenshots of mainland media reporting the event as a massive celebration: https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10679979_10154614463520654_5806727090948545727_o.jpg https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/106...
- zby 12y ago
  That is not too bad - they'll probably not deploy army to crush celebrations after all. By the way - there is a great democratic potential in play: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201105/how-hunter-gatherers-maintained-their-egalitarian-ways http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201105/how...
gurkendoktor 12y ago

Guthur 12y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_and_the_Occupy_movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_and_the_Occupy_... ...in case people forget about the clean up needed in their own backyard first.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

contingencies 12y ago

Mainland-resident here. Been in and out of HK since 1998. Usually only a few days. However, a FOAF is a just out of jail old-school dissident in Hong Kong. I can see why people are protesting: partly its the want to stay independent, partly it's fear of the steadily increasingly mainland presence - not just in government, but people. Regular HK'ers are studying Mandarin (very different from their more historically significant and representative dialect, Cantonese) and aiming to do mainland business. My main observation would be: heard about it from foreigners, got bugger-all details from purely foreign media, saw no mention in mainland media (which, to be fair, I rarely see). So just to confirm: there is zero coverage in the mainland, and not much elsewhere as far as I've seen. Anyway: good luck Hong Kong, you have a really unique situation in which you can exercise your rights. Make it worthwhile.

crazychrome 12y ago

I feel sad for HK. A protest led by teenagers? Where are the adults? If these teenagers were devised, where are their parents? Do they have any idea whom they are fighting against, fighting for? Shame on all HK adults.

jakartaposs 12y ago

In 1998,the Indonesian students stage a mass protest to demand what was then thought impossible and insane. They demanded that president Soeharto step down, the end to the military rule, and a free democratic election. After the students face real bullies and tanks, they finally bought down a 32 year old regime and a president once considered one of Asia strongman. In 2014 this year, Indonesia was internationally (UN) acclaimed to held the largest (150 million voters) and free direct presidential election ( 1 man 1 vote). The winner is mr jokowi who is from an ordinary background, non- millitary and not from any elite families. In a Democracy, NOTHING is Impossible. However, reforms need to take place before it can really happen. BLood, tears , time and sadly lives are the cost for it. When the hk students is face with ak47 from the PLA and stood their grounds, only then they can claim they are willing to “die for democracy”. Only then the hk students can say they are In the same league as the “tiananmen students”. I will also like to remind the hk students that the students at tiananmen 89, jakarta 98, Tunisia 12, Ukraine 14 did not wear googles, as nothing can stop a bullets from a automatic rifle. If you are all having second thought, then. I suggest that you guys go home and maybe come back next year. The world are watching and waiting to see if the cute hk students are really the “legendary” Chinese students at tiaanmen who let PLA tanks roll on them and haunts your communist leaders till now.

xster 12y ago

It's also fairly well documented that not unlike Mossadegh etc, CIA branch-offs like NED and NDI are openly funding Uyghur "East Turkistan" and "Occupy Central" etc https://www.ndi.org/hong-kong-designing%20democracy https://www.ndi.org/hong-kong-designing%20democracy http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-openly-approves-hong-kong-chaos-it-created/5405387 http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-openly-approves-hong-kong-ch...

twelvechairs 12y ago
Globalresearch is trash http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky