5 ms·

>In a related study of approximately 350 heterosexual individuals, we collected these same measures in networks of opposite-sex friends, acquaintances and partn

by hypron 12y ago

>In a related study of approximately 350 heterosexual individuals, we collected these same measures in networks of opposite-sex friends, acquaintances and partners. Among these well-acquainted individuals, consensus on measures of mate value was nearly zero. These are the people who know what authors you like, what you wore for Halloween six years ago and what obscure movie you will quote the next time you all get together. But they cannot agree on your mate value. Over the years, it has evaporated before their eyes. I'm curious if this is the cause of the so-called "friend zone". A guy and a girl meet and become friends. After getting to know each other, the guy still thinks the girl has mate value, whereas the girl doesn't think the guy has mate value.

Blackthorn 12y ago
What's wrong with the friend zone? See: http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2615 http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2615 (This is a snarky way of saying that friendship is its own reward.)
- Dylan16807 12y ago
  It's generally a good idea for all parties in a relationship to have the same expectations.
- peteretep 12y ago
  Nothing inherently wrong with it, in the same way there's nothing inherently wrong with a relationship based entirely on casual sex with no attendant intimacy or commitment. In both cases, though, in practice, you're likely to find one side is getting exactly what they want out of the relationship, where the other is holding out for more.
- Dewie 12y ago
  Staying friends with someone who you're romantically attracted to is a recipe for resentment (at least for many people). It might just be better to cut contact all together. Of course, then you might be in the uncomfortable position that people assume that you were only interested in her because you wanted to have sex with her and, 'failing' at that, you didn't want to have anything to do with her. Ironically, it is when men aren't one-dimensional (which I think is must of us) that leads to these kind of situations, which leads to people thinking that they were just out after sex to begin with.
hangonhn 12y ago
I always hated the term "friend zone" because I think it's really as simple as you have just described. One person likes the other and the feeling isn't reciprocated. It's unrequited love. The friendship part makes things more painful and complicated but I don't think it has any bearing on why the person isn't attracted to the other.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  Exactly. I think the "friend zone" concept reflects the cultural idea that a person (mostly woman) can be persuaded to fall in love with someone if that someone just tries hard enough. It kind of reflect the idea of women as passive objects that have to be "conquered" or "persuaded" by feats of courage, strength, show of wealth or humor. So now it is the fault of the pursuer for not working hard enough or "screwing up" an initial encounter protocol and being pushed into the "friend zone". Which is like a terribly deep gravity well that the will require a tremendous amount of energy to get out of.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - Exenith 12y ago
    It's pretty fucking rash to say that an attempt to impress someone is equivalent to objectification and sexism. It might reflect an inability to accept rejection, but I would hardly compare it to subhuman treatment (which is what objectification means -- treating someone without regard to their humanity). I sincerely hope this trend of reducing every male behaviour to sexism strangles itself.
    - HeyImAlex 12y ago
      I think you can find objectification at the root of anger and bitterness associated with the friend zone (which is often how I see the term used; the girl "puts you" in the friend zone after all). "But I'm so perfect for her, why can't she just seeeee" does show a disregard for the humanity of the admired; women are allowed to have opinions, and hitting all of the imaginary checkboxes on what make you perfect for her doesn't entitle you to anything.
watwut 12y ago
"Friend zone" means that she is not attracted into the guy. She might respect him, like him, find him pleasant and still not see him as potential romantic partner. She can even find him attractively looking and still not find him as a potential boyfriend. Some boys tend to think it is going to change if they do enough services or help her a lot of whatever. It does not work that way. If you need to work hard on her, then I do not see relationship looking out of it. It does not mean friendship can not turn into relationship. It can and all my relationships were like that. I would not date somebody I did not knew. I have also seen couples that originally disliked each other and became attracted only after they knew each other. However, it never went to one-sided "he follows her and help her too much" friend zone.
- hendzen 12y ago
  "A woman may very well form a friendship with a man, but for this to endure, it must be assisted by a little physical antipathy." - Nietzsche
- huherto 12y ago
  I believe the woman knows that he is into her. And she enjoys the attentions without having to commit. It is a very comfortable position. It remains an asymmetric relationship as long as the friend zoned allows it.
KoalaOnesie 12y ago
The concept of "friend zone" might resonate with more people if it wasn't always a straight man remonstrating about a woman who won't reciprocate his politeness with sex. This article is more about people who take time to fall in love, well, taking time to fall in love, regardless of their gender.
- rm445 12y ago
  Not everything has to be symmetrical. The phenomenon as people observe it primarily occurs with a young man doting on a woman. Mentioning the age of the participants: it seems to be a set of unhelpful behaviours that the guys eventually grow out of.
mercer 12y ago
I rather like this interpretation of the male-female friendships and why this 'friend-zone' thing exists. I'm not sure how much I agree with it currently, but it's food for thought: http://deepfriedcalamari.tumblr.com/post/10839417292/homosocial-bonding-is-different-between-men-and http://deepfriedcalamari.tumblr.com/post/10839417292/homosoc... In particular: > Homosocial bonding is different between men and women, and this causes a lot of confusion and why it’s assumed that men and women cannot be friends. > Men see their friendships as camaraderie, hanging out, occasional complaining, and chilling. There’s plenty of support mechanisms in place, but they’re not intimate, per se. > Women on the other hand are intimate, affectionate, they talk more about how they feel than how things happened. The support mechanisms are explicitly intimate. > So, men who are not used to intimate physical contact and discourse have to translate a person of the opposite sex being physically and emotionally intimate beyond the boundaries of relationships he is used to. Again, I don't want to generalize the linked text, but it was very accurate when I reflected on my own 'friend zone' experiences, and those my male friends have had.

by hypron 12y ago

Blackthorn 12y ago

What's wrong with the friend zone? See: http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2615 http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2615 (This is a snarky way of saying that friendship is its own reward.)

Dylan16807 12y ago
It's generally a good idea for all parties in a relationship to have the same expectations.
peteretep 12y ago
Nothing inherently wrong with it, in the same way there's nothing inherently wrong with a relationship based entirely on casual sex with no attendant intimacy or commitment. In both cases, though, in practice, you're likely to find one side is getting exactly what they want out of the relationship, where the other is holding out for more.
Dewie 12y ago
Staying friends with someone who you're romantically attracted to is a recipe for resentment (at least for many people). It might just be better to cut contact all together. Of course, then you might be in the uncomfortable position that people assume that you were only interested in her because you wanted to have sex with her and, 'failing' at that, you didn't want to have anything to do with her. Ironically, it is when men aren't one-dimensional (which I think is must of us) that leads to these kind of situations, which leads to people thinking that they were just out after sex to begin with.

hangonhn 12y ago

I always hated the term "friend zone" because I think it's really as simple as you have just described. One person likes the other and the feeling isn't reciprocated. It's unrequited love. The friendship part makes things more painful and complicated but I don't think it has any bearing on why the person isn't attracted to the other.

rdtsc 12y ago
Exactly. I think the "friend zone" concept reflects the cultural idea that a person (mostly woman) can be persuaded to fall in love with someone if that someone just tries hard enough. It kind of reflect the idea of women as passive objects that have to be "conquered" or "persuaded" by feats of courage, strength, show of wealth or humor. So now it is the fault of the pursuer for not working hard enough or "screwing up" an initial encounter protocol and being pushed into the "friend zone". Which is like a terribly deep gravity well that the will require a tremendous amount of energy to get out of.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Exenith 12y ago
  It's pretty fucking rash to say that an attempt to impress someone is equivalent to objectification and sexism. It might reflect an inability to accept rejection, but I would hardly compare it to subhuman treatment (which is what objectification means -- treating someone without regard to their humanity). I sincerely hope this trend of reducing every male behaviour to sexism strangles itself.
  - HeyImAlex 12y ago
    I think you can find objectification at the root of anger and bitterness associated with the friend zone (which is often how I see the term used; the girl "puts you" in the friend zone after all). "But I'm so perfect for her, why can't she just seeeee" does show a disregard for the humanity of the admired; women are allowed to have opinions, and hitting all of the imaginary checkboxes on what make you perfect for her doesn't entitle you to anything.

watwut 12y ago

"Friend zone" means that she is not attracted into the guy. She might respect him, like him, find him pleasant and still not see him as potential romantic partner. She can even find him attractively looking and still not find him as a potential boyfriend. Some boys tend to think it is going to change if they do enough services or help her a lot of whatever. It does not work that way. If you need to work hard on her, then I do not see relationship looking out of it. It does not mean friendship can not turn into relationship. It can and all my relationships were like that. I would not date somebody I did not knew. I have also seen couples that originally disliked each other and became attracted only after they knew each other. However, it never went to one-sided "he follows her and help her too much" friend zone.

hendzen 12y ago
"A woman may very well form a friendship with a man, but for this to endure, it must be assisted by a little physical antipathy." - Nietzsche
huherto 12y ago
I believe the woman knows that he is into her. And she enjoys the attentions without having to commit. It is a very comfortable position. It remains an asymmetric relationship as long as the friend zoned allows it.

KoalaOnesie 12y ago

The concept of "friend zone" might resonate with more people if it wasn't always a straight man remonstrating about a woman who won't reciprocate his politeness with sex. This article is more about people who take time to fall in love, well, taking time to fall in love, regardless of their gender.

rm445 12y ago
Not everything has to be symmetrical. The phenomenon as people observe it primarily occurs with a young man doting on a woman. Mentioning the age of the participants: it seems to be a set of unhelpful behaviours that the guys eventually grow out of.

mercer 12y ago

I rather like this interpretation of the male-female friendships and why this 'friend-zone' thing exists. I'm not sure how much I agree with it currently, but it's food for thought: http://deepfriedcalamari.tumblr.com/post/10839417292/homosocial-bonding-is-different-between-men-and http://deepfriedcalamari.tumblr.com/post/10839417292/homosoc... In particular: > Homosocial bonding is different between men and women, and this causes a lot of confusion and why it’s assumed that men and women cannot be friends. > Men see their friendships as camaraderie, hanging out, occasional complaining, and chilling. There’s plenty of support mechanisms in place, but they’re not intimate, per se. > Women on the other hand are intimate, affectionate, they talk more about how they feel than how things happened. The support mechanisms are explicitly intimate. > So, men who are not used to intimate physical contact and discourse have to translate a person of the opposite sex being physically and emotionally intimate beyond the boundaries of relationships he is used to. Again, I don't want to generalize the linked text, but it was very accurate when I reflected on my own 'friend zone' experiences, and those my male friends have had.